Windows needs better multimedia support

[K.Mandla]

So I headed over to the Ubuntu Podcast Forum to fill my mind with Ubuntu goodness while at work, and downloaded the latest ogg.

Now in case you hadn't heard, my witless employer forces me to use WinXP. I don't complain, though; I'm fairly certain I'd get the axe if I did.

I open Windows Media Player, point it at the ogg, and this what I get.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7240/wmpyz7.jpg

What the ... ? WMP can't open an ogg? That's LAME (no pun intended)! You'd think Windows would be able to handle any media file I give it, as soon as it was installed. Well at least it should.

But I'm willing to give it another chance. I've got Winamp installed. Winamp will play anything. But Winamp, if anything, does worse!

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6375/winampdj5.jpg

Foiled again!

You know, those people at Nullsoft really need to put more effort into Winamp. It should open any audio file I throw at it, as soon as I install it. I don't know what the problem is, but those uber-geeks should try harder. And it should come with the default Debian skin. That one looks like my Dad's stereo from 1975.

Okay, last ditch effort: Windows Media Classic, with Real Alternative and QuickTime Alternative. Keeps me from boggin' down the boss's machine with QuickTime and RealPlayer both.

But what's this?!

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/7741/wmcvb8.jpg

Failure! Strike three! Now I shall have to suffer in silence, with no UbuntuNews until I get home.

The problem here is obvious: Windows XP just isn't ready for the desktop. It can't open my audio files, and these third-party programs are buggy and incomplete.

Maybe once these things get fixed, I'll try Windows XP again. But until then, it's just too much work to get it running, and I haven't got time to configure it. [-(

Now if you'll excuse me, the boss is coming my way.

[nalmeth]

Funny,

I've been liking your threads as of late K.Mandla!

:)

[meng]

I agree entirely. I also would submit that you make your point with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer, nevertheless I applaud the effort. If you have the time, maybe you could apply that satirical mind of yours to lampoon this website http://mywebpages.comcast.net/SupportCD/FirefoxMyths.html
which inexplicably was the focus of a recent thread.

(Actually, I'm not seriously suggesting you ought to do this, but it does annoy me that someone thought this site was worth pointing out.)

[Skia_42]

Why exactly are we talking about how much Windows sucks? I thoguht we had already established that fact through common sense...

[Iandefor]

lol!

[Jucato]

And people thought Linux didn't support as much multimedia as Windows. :D

I also experienced a slightly similar situation, but I think mine would be a bit worse, considering that that media I was trying to play was a DivX AVI. The video played without problems in Kubuntu. But when my sister tried to play the exact same file in Windows. It wouldn't play at all. Of course it's a codec issue. But you'd think you would have better luck playing it since it's in DivX AVI format.

Windows was never ready for the desktop. It just so happened that it was the only feasible alternative back then, so what choice did we have? :D

[rbalfour]

Rofl!

[croak77]

I think most people would rather have mp3 support out of the box then ogg vorbis support.

[3rdalbum]

In order to use Ogg Vorbis files on Windows, you need to activate a huge software repository called "The Web". After using a graphical frontend ("Internet Explorer") for the Windows package management system ("HTTP") to download the software, it then asks you a lot of questions and does not allow the installation process to be conducted in the background.

If a new version of "libogg-vorbis" is released, you must manually go into Internet Explorer and compare version numbers to see if you have the latest version. If "libogg-vorbis" depends on one or more packages which you don't already have installed, you must manually resolve those dependancies.

If you don't like the idea of having to search a large, unindexed software repository like The Web, maybe you should use a different computer like "Abacus", or "HumanBrain"?

[Jucato]

In order to use Ogg Vorbis files on Windows, you need to activate a huge software repository called "The Web". After using a graphical frontend ("Internet Explorer") for the Windows package management system ("HTTP") to download the software, it then asks you a lot of questions and does not allow the installation process to be conducted in the background.

If a new version of "libogg-vorbis" is released, you must manually go into Internet Explorer and compare version numbers to see if you have the latest version. If "libogg-vorbis" depends on one or more packages which you don't already have installed, you must manually resolve those dependancies.

If you don't like the idea of having to search a large, unindexed software repository like The Web, maybe you should use a different computer like "Abacus", or "HumanBrain"?

roflmao!

It's quite unfortunate that the Windows package managers (.CAB, InstallShield, .EXE, etc), do not resolve dependencies, specially when it comes to libraries (DLLs).

A thought just came to me: why the hell did they call it "InstallShield"? Who is it supposed to shield, and from what? :-k

[Miguel]

Quotes in reverse order



A thought just came to me: why the hell did they call it "InstallShield"? Who is it supposed to shield, and from what? :-k

Elementary, dear Fenyx. It's trying to shield the young and innocent computer from an axe-wielding infuriated user. He's infuriated after being tortured with dll hell, long searchs through the web and unautomated installation process in the foreground.



I think most people would rather have mp3 support out of the box then ogg vorbis support.


Mmm... ogg has a nice vbr by default, quality index for compression rocks and has much much better bass than mp3. You might need to tune the frequency cutoff if you are very sensitive to very high frequencies, though. And, unlike DivX, it's free and newer oggs are backards compatible. If you add to this that most (if not all) of my CD's are converted to ogg's you will guess why I am so pissed of with WMP (even 11) every time I try to play Dire Straits' Telegraph Road.



That one looks like my Dad's stereo from 1975


1970's Marantz pre-amplifiers and stereo tuners are a real beauty. What's more, they have a beautiful sound. It's an heresy comparing them to Winamp "classic"!!!!

[woedend]

are you sure ogg has better bass? I thought it was actually the opposite and that was the reason that oggs sounded better overall at low bitrates is because of lows being "merged" or removed leaving more room for the mids.
I use ogg and love it, just going by what i've read.

[bruce89]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Ogg is the container format, and Vorbis is the audio component.

Ogg is a patent-free, fully open multimedia bitstream container format designed for efficient streaming and file compression (storage).
...
The term "ogg" often refers to the audio file format Ogg Vorbis, that is, Vorbis-encoded audio in an Ogg container. Other prominent components of Ogg are its video codec Theora, and the human speech audio compression format, Speex.

Although the Vorbis format is often simply referred to as Ogg, this is technically incorrect as Ogg, like AVI or Matroska, is a container format while Vorbis is an audio codec.

[Miguel]

are you sure ogg has better bass?

Ogg vorbis bass seemed more truthful to me when I did a few comparisons between mp3 and ogg. Mind you, this was on a AC'97 integrated sound card with Sony CD-550 (closed) headphones. I must admit though that the sound card is crappy (it's a 2 year old laptop) and that I am an untrained ear. Compressions were about 128kbps.

From what I've read, at lower quality (96) the differences between mp3 and vorbis are huge. However, all my ogg vorbis' are encoded at the ubuntu default of quality 5 (0.5 in gstreamer). This transtlates to about 192 in libvorbis 1.0 and 160 in libvorbis 1.1. At those compressions, you either have a super dupper yamaha (that doesn't work on linux) sound card connected to some beautiful B&W, or have some beautiful* hearing or both.

Note: I know I use bad terminology when I write ogg when I mean ogg vorbis and theora when referring to the video. But writing vorbis everywere is long and tedious.

* Having a beautiful hearing is a pain in the (four letter word). You just hear imperfections everywhere, not to mention the typicall modern music concert. Your only escape is buying an ultra expensive High End set with some ultra expensive speakers (B&W 804D, which are not the best B&W, are about 4000$) and going to classical music concerts.

[Miguel]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Ogg is the container format, and Vorbis is the audio component.

Bruce, I have a similar quest to yours. Mine is making everybody realise that the centrifugal force doesn't actually exist. Another one is telling people that the spanish equivalent of "Tungsten" is not "Tungsteno" but "Wolframio". This, BTW, is the only periodical table element discovered in Spain.

[Kimm]

I agree.
MS is lazy not to implement support for all/most video/audio formats. OGG Vorbis is a given, since they need to do hardly any work, and pay no licence fees.

[bonzodog]

hahaha... I finally found how to enable ogg support in windows!!!
You want to know how complicated it gets....? Call this an easy install? I don't think so.

Found at http://windowsxp.mvps.org/ogg.htm


Resolution

This is caused by the lack of Codec that supports the .OGG file format. You can get the supporting Codec from this website.

Download and install the above Ogg Directshow Codec, and Windows Media Player should be able to play the .OGG file. You may then associate the .OGG files with Windows Media Player.

* Start Regedit.exe
* Navigate to HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT
* Create a new subkey named .ogg
* Select HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.ogg

In the right-pane, perform the following:

* Double-click (default) and set it's data to mp3file
* Create a new REG_SZ value named Content Type
* Double-click Content Type and set it's data to audio/x-ogg
* Create a new REG_SZ value PerceivedType
* Double-click PerceivedType and set it's data to audio

bloody hell...in ubuntu you just add the codec with sudo apt-get install...but in windows you then have to edit the registry to get it to play the ogg files, AFTER installing the codec. Windows easier than linux?? Don't make me laugh.

[Miguel]

Who would have thought I'd find the answers to one of my windows issues here, in ubuntu forums!!!!

[ubuntu_demon]

K.Mandla great stuff!

I blogged about it here :
http://ubuntudemon.wordpress.com/2006/07/20/windows-needs-better-multimedia-support/

Here's a related thread :
Is Microsoft Windows ready for the desktop?
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=53286

[G Morgan]

Bruce, I have a similar quest to yours. Mine is making everybody realise that the centrifugal force doesn't actually exist. Another one is telling people that the spanish equivalent of "Tungsten" is not "Tungsteno" but "Wolframio". This, BTW, is the only periodical table element discovered in Spain.

It's more correct to say that a force acts centrifugally than to say centrifugal force. Centrifugal is a descriptive term rather than an actual force. The force acting centrifugally is usually something like tension or gravity. There, have I helped you on your quest to illuminate people :mrgreen: .

[Miguel]

There, have I helped you on your quest to illuminate people :mrgreen: .

Mmm... No. I'm trying to illuminate them on the basis of the simple concepts everybody learns on high school physics, such as the Newton laws. But it seems hard to gras that If the centrifugal force really existed cars wouldn't turn
What you feel is not directly extrapolable to an inertial frame


I'm not even into things like "you can't explain centrigual force from the 4 fundamental interactions", although my father loves to "punish" me with Tugnsten and this centrifugal force, so I retaliate apropiately.

It doesn't help that we both play golf (well, the degree a few years ago and my PhD don't let me much free time, though) and in all magazines Tungsten is transtalted the wrong way. Something similar happens with our love towards Formula 1. Also, my brother, who is 1 year from finishing industrial engineering, doesn't help me at all. It might be related to the fights we used to have.

You mentioned a centrifugally acting gravity. I hate you. I will have nightmares tonight with rotating black holes.

[Carrots171]

Thanks. I'm really tired of all of those pointless "Linux is not ready for desktop" threads and this cheered me up a lot. :D

[GuitarHero]

There seems to be a bunch of these ironic threads going around comparing complaints about linux to other things.

[croak77]

Thanks. I'm really tired of all of those pointless "Linux is not ready for desktop" threads and this cheered me up a lot. :D

I find these Microsoft bashing threads to be petty and juvenile. Not to mention complete FUD. :twisted:

[jordilin]

I don't care at all about the compatibility of Windows with media codecs ;-)

[rodrigo666]

I don't know for sure.

But I believe that Foorbar2000 plays Ogg Vorbis out of box and is much light to system memory than Winamp or Windows Media Player 11 (heck, it might be lighter than WMP Classic).

Maybe you should try it next time you need to play a audio file on Windows.

Foorbar2000 is one of the things I miss on Ubuntu.

[Miguel]

There seems to be a bunch of these ironic threads going around comparing complaints about linux to other things.


You know, sometimes you are pissed because your work, or a few silly things you read on the net, or because your girlfriend has switched to BSD... and venting your frustrations might help. Is it FUD? Maybe. I don't care. I'm pretty happy with my system right now and, except for bugfixes and ideas (no, I don't call "copy this windows feature" an idea), I don't care much about what the others say about linux. I just want the others to respect me.

But there is one thing that pisses me. Does WMP really sound better than WinAmp? Anything to do with kernel access? Why the hell do I have the feeling that my sound card sounds better in windows than in linux? Is it just an equalization, is it due to latency of the running thread or is it just worse ALSA drivers?

[Kimm]

Bruce, I have a similar quest to yours. Mine is making everybody realise that the centrifugal force doesn't actually exist. Another one is telling people that the spanish equivalent of "Tungsten" is not "Tungsteno" but "Wolframio". This, BTW, is the only periodical table element discovered in Spain.

Sorry to be the one to tell you, but Tungsten was not discovered in Spain... it was discovered in Sweden), and thus the name Tungsten, meaning "Heavy stone" in Swedish.
However, Tungsten is not an element, and thus not in the periodic table, Wolfram, however is, and the discovery of that has been credited to Spain (or some spanish people atleast). Tungsten has hight quantities of Wolfram in it :)

[Polygon]

strange, i have no codecs installed on my computer (except for the windows default, and divX) and when i installed winamp, it played .ogg's fine

i only wish that the ipod played .ogg files, i like them better cause they are open source, and they sound the same and a tad bit smaller :D

[richbarna]

I find these Microsoft bashing threads to be petty and juvenile. Not to mention complete FUD. :twisted:

It's not microsoft bashing, it's humour related to a given subject. It just so happens that we are on a linux forum, where ubuntu bashing comes on a regular basis. This is a humorous attempt at dispelling the myth that Windows is so perfect, when it isn't.

[ubuntu_demon]

I submitted this story to the digg :
http://digg.com/linux_unix/Windows_needs_better_multimedia_support