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View Full Version : [SOLVED] 13.10 Install old Gnome fallback wo Full Gmome 3.8 - Not Flaskback



electricrider
November 21st, 2013, 10:56 PM
Im installing Ubuntu 13.10 from a mini iso disk. I want to use Gnome Session Fallback as my Only DE. I want Lightdm to be my manager because GDM is too full of bloat. Xorg and lightdm are installed.

As of now, installing fallback no longer installs the real fallback session. It only installs the new flashback which uses lots more Gnome than i want - I cannot get a minimal gnome interface working to allow the fallback session to run without installing a fuller Gnome 3 that i do not want.

This was possible in earlier versions of the fallback session.

sudo apt-get install gnome-session-fallback --no-recommends, does not work any longer.

There has to be an untrusted repo out there that has the real fallback session in it.

Where is that repo?

This is crazy. Gnome stopped support for the real fallback session and Ubuntu followed suit and removed it from the repos. A new dev team saw this and started working on a new still in early beta type release mind you - version of fallback called flashback. Now, Ubuntu took this buggy beta and replaced the real fallback session with it. They wont even bother to change the name and call it Flaskback as you actually install Flashback using the install gnome-session-fallback command. This is Very misleading. This is the kind of " lets give the people minimal tools and cut off access to the tools they want so we can maintain control over the OS - Microsoft like attitude" It seems to me.

What happened to backward compatibility in Linux? In windows for example every 32 bit app that ran in XP will work in all os's up.. vista, win 7 and win 8 - sure windows has libraries of dependencies that get a new version every couple of years.. visual C runtimes direct x etc.. - but in linux if you have a new kernel or a dependency isn't the right version for your app, the app wont work. ( even in windows this is true but at least the system itself will tell you what runtime library you need to upgrade to make the older program work - it's that simple)

Whats the best way to trouble shoot this problem Linux has with backward compatibility? I am asking what is the formula, or procedure to find the way to make the older programs work with the newer kernels and dependencies?

To recap, I want only the minimal Gnome installed to only make the old original fallback session work (which i still need to find a copy of) . I want no Unity or no Gnome 3 style DE.

( main question) How can i do this?

( option 1) IF there is no way to get the original fallback ( which i dont believe) Is there a way to get Flashback with a minimal gnome setup that does not install the gnome 3 DE? ( I'll just have to use the buggy and incomplete Flashback and hope it grows up)

( option 2) OR - can I obtain a copy of the old fallout package someplace else ( even if i have to DL it as a deb for use with an earlier kernel version say 12.04- and install That and make it work in 13.10?

ibjsb4
November 22nd, 2013, 05:15 PM
sudo apt-get install gnome-session-fallback --no-recommends, does not work any longer.

This is not good for me either, as thats the way I been doing my installs.

I am still running 12o4, so not yet a proble for me, but ..

So I guess that whats happening in 13.10 is a gnome-shell install that runs flashback through gnome-shell so now your committed to installing gnome-shell to get flashback.

Also, I thought edubuntu depended on fallback and thats the main reason fallback lives on. How they doing it?

oldfred
November 22nd, 2013, 05:48 PM
I do not fully understand it either.

I thought there were 3 versions.
The original gnome classic/fallback was based on gnome2. I thought Mint was more a continuation of this version.

Then with 12.04 fallback was based on gnome3. And I just followed kansasnoob's details to install it.
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PreciseGnomeClassicTweaks

And this was how it works.
It's important to realize that Gnome classic and Unity (the standard Ubuntu DE) use the Compiz window manager, whereas both Gnome classic (no effects) and Unity-2D (aka: ubuntu-2D) use the Metacity window manager.


But then gnome discontinued everything but their default although Ubuntu used Unity and still had flashback in 12.04, but not sure about later versions. And then only with the newest gnome3.8 did they add a panel version as a supported version. Perhaps enough users complained?

With 14.04, I installed the new flashback and it seems to work. Although I have only used it a bit and a few minor things may not be correct.

New gnome3.8 flashback
https://wiki.gnome.org/GnomeFlashback
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-announce-list/2013-September/msg00093.html
http://packages.ubuntu.com/saucy/gnome-session-flashback

electricrider
November 22nd, 2013, 08:56 PM
My apologies to the Flashback dev team because my troubles may not be all their fault (even though still find Flashback buggy) . I have installed (the new) either fallback or flashback various ways and they are all different animals.

Here's the rub.

Installed via gnome-session-fallback a week ago from Xbuntu. This gave me a gnome fallback that would not work well either in effects or No effects mode.

After installing the Ubuntu Mini ISO, I tried both Gnome 3.8 full with Classic mode and the new flashback mode . This Classic mode is NOT the same as the real Flashback mode even though Gnome claims it is (this is widely being reported around the internet) - it's NOT.. it's a locked off scaled down version, a simulation of Flashback that you cannot configure using super plus Alt and right click. It's garbage.

Around this time they also switched the Fallback mode to install Flashback mode instead, (now if you install Fallback it shows up in the session as Flashback) but here I choose to install via gnome-session-flashback just to be sure I was getting the pure flashback from the flaskback dev team and not a modified fallback or classic version from Gnome or Ubuntu - If I instal Flashback itself using gnome-session-flashback this won't work either properly unless the rest of Gnome is installed. If the rest of Gnome is installed, the No Effects mode works fine but the Effects mode is very buggy still. I tried to use it with only Gnome-Core installed to keep it minimal but to no avail.. the flashback (no effects) session still will not work unless you have the full Gnome DE to make it work. ( edit: I did not try the Flashback (with effects) mode with Compiz.. I want to keep the ram hungey Compiz out of my distro and if I distribute it, folks can add it then.)

The confusion is that in all other posts about installing Fallback or Flashback, it is talked about as if it were a minimal install of Gnome - this is how it was with the original fallback anyway. You want Gnome 2, install fallback they would say - not anymore. The new flashback is Only a shell for the Gnome 3 DE. This is because they got rid of the old 3.6 version Gnome Panel that allowed the older fallback session to work and replaced it with Gnome Shell Extensions. Then they locked out the ability to use the older Fallback.deb file from 3.6. You cannot install this deb file in software center because it wont satisfy dependencies.

The name of the deb file is gnome-session-fallback_3.6.0-0ubuntu1.1_all.deb I can't tell you now how I found it but the only place to get it through 4shared service and you have to jump through hoops to get it. If anyone has this and finds a way to get this to work with 13.10 I'd Greatly appreciate it !!!

Seems there is no way to get a minimal Gnome install anymore - it's been locked out by restricting the tools to us that we want to use by Gnome and the folks at Ubuntu. Sure I can edit LightDM and remove all other entries other than Gnome Flashback (No effects) even rename it to something else like "My DE" but this won't help because the system is still at this point over bloated with Gnome. This won't work - what if I distribute my distro and someone else wants to install gnome not knowing that it's hidden? They will run into problems and still the distro will be bloated.

We need Flashback to be a standalone component with enough functionality to give us Flashback mode as a proper DE. This is what Gnome and Ubuntu is trying to avaoid it sems to me. They don't want anyone to make a light distro with Gnome easily - if I were a programmer, I'd be all over this thing back engineering Gnome 3 to make a Flashback DE proper. This is what I thought the Flaskback dev team was going to do from what I read.. looked and read like thats where they were heading.. then they hand the reigns over to ubuntu and gnome. At this point I am unsure if that dev team wasn't part of the gnome team all along.

Frogs Hair
November 22nd, 2013, 10:04 PM
Gnome-session-fallback in 13.10 is transitional/package and Classic is a Gnome Shell session with a window list, workspace switcher and more traditional menu. The web posts I have seen do indicate that Flashback is a renamed Fallback session. Not being a regular user of either session I can't be sure.

Transitional packages in my experience tend to be dummy packages and have seen them when packages are being phased out . They are usually symbolic and install nothing . The gnome desktop utilities was such a package that became a transitional package before disappearing.

The description in synaptic of the gnome-session-fallback for 13.10 is that of a transitional package.

electricrider
November 23rd, 2013, 03:49 AM
Thanks.. that helps make things a little less muddy. I have decided to try to see us i can use Mate for my purposes instead of fighting with the fallback session. Thanks folks.

ibjsb4
November 23rd, 2013, 05:03 AM
Thanks.. that helps make things a little less muddy. I have decided to try to see us i can use Mate for my purposes instead of fighting with the fallback session. Thanks folks.

Mate seems to have promise.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Ubuntu-MATE-Remix-14-04-Trusty-Tahr-Might-Arrive-in-2014-401006.shtml