ubuntu 6 awesome BUT...

[schurtek]

always a but guys, always a but...

well first let me say welldone on an awesome flavour of ubuntu. previous experience was with version 5 and it was a bad experience (let's just leave it at that...)

My business offers open source business solution consulting. in other words, I go out to companies, and advise them on open source alternatives to propritory software. when a client takes my advise, I fowards a percentage of my consultancy fees to the relevant open source projects. In all I have contributed several hundred dollars in the last year.

Now I am always looking for a better solution, and the new ubuntu seems to be just that... very similar in certain vital aspects to the familiar MS Windows evironment (god I hate getting those shivers down my spine), yet fundamentally Linux to the bone.

BUT my loading it on my test system was not with out it's trauma, and taking into account that I am a hardcore OSI fanatic, I never gave up, but most other people would.

First grievance... The GUI is to resource hungry. I understand that it runs as a live CD, but you need to be a little more resourceful in this area. Have the CD start at 640x480 56Hz, and then step through the resolutions first, then the refresh rates each time asking the user to click on a confirmation button. If he doesn't see anything, then he must leave it and after 10 seconds or so, the gui should drop back down the previous good resolution/refresh rate.

You see, my test system is just that, a machine made up of scraps. And the monitor is a 13.4" SVGA 800x600 display (whose power button has been hard wired cos it broke to often). I had to go borrow a 16.8" 1280x1024 display from my book keeper (as my normal PC is a laptop so couldn't borrow that screen).

Now to the in experienced user, Ubuntu would not be working, and he would switch back to Windows (there's those damn shivers again). Meanwhile, the problem was just a ID10T error...

Second issue... and this one was resolved using my experience. Your average user would have been lost. I couldn't not partition the harddrive (Seagate 40GB 5400 rpm PATA IDE) during the install process. Kept bring back various error messages. First thought would be that it's a dud harddrive, but I know it's good, as I install a different Linux Flavour every week. So I went to System and Partitioned it from there... worked perfectly. Restarted the Install... seleced Manual Partition and just skipped through... But I reckon you need to just check things there, as again it could cause someone to leave Linux all together.

You see, that I don't think I will ever understand. You average computer user has several dozen bad experiences with Windows (shiver) every month, but they just keep moving on... but put them infront of Linux or any other alternative, and all they need is one bad experience and they are willing to turn their back on Open Source forever... that must be one of the paradoxes of science and nature and stuff...

I reckon it's been baffling great minds since the dawn of gorillas and apes and stuff...

Peace out guys... and will let you all know if I am going to approve Ubuntu and register as a partner...

[matthew]

This belongs in community chat, not desktop support. I'll move it now.

[wieman01]

I like your report. I also look at Ubuntu from a commercial perspective and therefore I must admit that you raised a few valid points.

Although Ubuntu is free in terms of licence costs, it is not when you take into account that you probably spend way more time trying to configure it and installing software than you would in a MS environment (although I hate to say that).

Time is a crucial factor and directly translates into hard dollars. Making Ubuntu as easy to install as other operating systems, is certainly one of the key aspects and one of the most important "selling points" of Ubuntu in contrast to other distributions.

After all Linux usually gets one shot: One single frustrating experience and most of the users drop it like a hot potato. I have seen it many times as you probably have.

Luckily I have not given up, however, I cannot blame average users who do (such as my mom). But these are the people Linux needs in order to succeed on a broader base. So in this respect it cannot be "commercial enough" if I am allowed to use this phrase at this point.

[kabus]

First grievance... The GUI is to resource hungry. I understand that it runs as a live CD, but you need to be a little more resourceful in this area. Have the CD start at 640x480 56Hz, and then step through the resolutions first, then the refresh rates each time asking the user to click on a confirmation button.
[..]
I couldn't not partition the harddrive (Seagate 40GB 5400 rpm PATA IDE) during the install process. Kept bring back various error messages. First thought would be that it's a dud harddrive, but I know it's good, as I install a different Linux Flavour every week. So I went to System and Partitioned it from there... worked perfectly. Restarted the Install... seleced Manual Partition and just skipped through... But I reckon you need to just check things there, as again it could cause someone to leave Linux all together.


You are talking to the wrong people, developers generally don't read the forum.

[Stew2]

I have a feeling this thread is going to turn nasty.

[schurtek]

Sorry Matthew... new here... wasn't sure... thanks for moving it for me...

[wieman01]

I have a feeling this thread is going to turn nasty.

No, it won't as long as we stick to the facts and don't make this a stage for politics. This can turn out to be just another good discussion.

[schurtek]

it's true what you say about linux costing more in man hours to setup, but in a case study that we did... a local company here in South Africa has 4500 desktop computers. Each computer is running Windows XP Pro (shiver again). True, microsnot does have tools to facilitate deployment, they still don't give you full control over the deployment process.

We built a server install linux box, that had iso images preconfigured for each department. We were then able to go to any machine on the network, plug in a USB stick, boot up and choose the department, and the magic happened. As we had configured the machines for say Human Resources, we were able to install 350 pc's in HR in one day, fully configured and operational with all the apps needed for that department. The user details where handeled using LPAD.

Now this case study is still a case study at the moment, but using our models and small scaled experiments, we where able to calculate a one week deployment time per 1000 desktops. This company previously use to take six months to deploy the entire network.

So guess what, when it comes to there next upgrade we will be converting them to Linux... just which flavour would highlight the companies sense of community... :)

ps. I would love to get my hands on a SAP server so that I can prove once and for all that MySQL is more stable and faster. I have been using the LAMP solution for ages now... and maybe I am just a die hard... but it always comes out tops. Even Cisco reckons that the LAMP platform is a force NOT to reckon with...

[schurtek]

kabus > mmmm.... granted... but most of the projects I am involved with the developers actually go through the forums regular... how do I get my note to the developers? {nervously looks around wondering if this is going to be like getting in touch with Microsoft (shudder) developers}

[schurtek]

Stew man... why should this get nasty... people shouldn't take offence so quickly... and they shouldn't snap so easily... from what I understand... it's not the ubuntu way... cheers mate...

[matthew]

I have a feeling this thread is going to turn nasty.It doesn't have to. (hint, hint) :)

[kabus]

how do I get my note to the developers?

Report a bug (http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate#head-5f51744fe2ab198ea488499b475eedefb45860c2) or post on one of the mailing lists (https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/), sounder (https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/sounder) for example.
You are much more likely to get the attention of devs there.

[Stew2]

I personally don't have a problem with it, but these are user forums, not developer forums and some of the users might take offense to some of your comments. Just a feeling, hope I'm wrong :)
Regards,
Stew2

Edit:
Sorry matthew, I was typing when you posted. I got the hint :)

[ComplexNumber]

I couldn't not partition the harddrive (Seagate 40GB 5400 rpm PATA IDE) during the install process. Kept bring back various error messages. First thought would be that it's a dud harddrive, but I know it's good, as I install a different Linux Flavour every week. So I went to System and Partitioned it from there... worked perfectly. Restarted the Install... seleced Manual Partition and just skipped through... But I reckon you need to just check things there, as again it could cause someone to leave Linux all together.
thats the bug that got me. if the user backtracks during the partitioning section, it is GUARANTEED to crash with a traceback error, whereby the user has to go back to the beginning. highly annoying, because it got me about 6 or 7 times in a row. when i went through the partitioning without having to backtrack on my steps, it was fine.

[schurtek]

sorry stew... i still don't understand... please explain further... I promise not to take offence... am new here... so if i am out of line i need to know... :D

[schurtek]

complex > got you how many times... it got me four times till I decided to con my way into doing it manually before installing. just did it from System menu (which I wouldn't have been able to do from a conventional install distro, but from a Live CD install distro it was a sinch... :D :D :D

[Stew2]

You are not out of line and I meant no offence :) , please disregard my posts. Thank you. :)

Regards,
Stew2

[schurtek]

{scratches head} Okay...

[givré]

Yeah the Live CD as a lot of problems : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseNotes/UbiquityKnownIssues
They recognise it, and it will be improve in edgy. Normaly we will also have in few weeks (or months :cool: ) a point release with all update since now.
If you want to be sure to have no problems, i always recommend to use the alternate CD (and lot's of people here recommed it).
It's less user friendly, but well, it works 8)

[schurtek]

givre > thanks for that note... will download the alternate cd now...

[3rdalbum]

Yeah, it's early days for the Live CD installer. I know it's been around since before Dapper, but it never got tested until Flight 5 or something like that :-)

But still, once Ubiquity is bugfixed a bit more, and once Ubuntu implements a fallback to Vesa mode for Xorg, and once the website mentions that the Server edition doesn't include a GUI :-) everything should go like a dream for most people.

Incidentally, have you tried SimplyMepis? They've probably got most of those problems licked over that side of the fence.

[givré]

and once the website mentions that the Server edition doesn't include a GUI :-)
That's done, i fill a bug for that, and 2 hours after, it was done ;) .
I want to say, if you have an important remarque, launchpad is your friend. (but don't forget that the wiki is also your fiend... and the forum also. In fact we are all friend :cool: )

[vayu]

always a but guys, always a but...


Please install Win XP on your test computer and tell us how easy it is to install and how long it takes and if your model user would be able to figure it and the driver downloading out.

You mentioned the average user several times. One of my concerns is that Ubuntu caters to some conception of an inexperienced user. I see a trend towards that. At some point that's going to take the real value of Ubuntu away from me. I need a system that is powerful and flexible. I also have two children, lots of work and not enough time for recreation. Ubuntu fits my needs perfectly as it is, because it doesn't take the time to set up a state of the art system as say FreeBSD or any number of other excellent OSS systems available do.

My desire is that Ubuntu strives to being state of the art, efficient, fast stable, easy to set up and maintain but not catered to people who want a computer to act like a toaster.

[schurtek]

vayu -> you stress concern about my conception of using ubuntu as a solution for the inexperienced user, yet you have proven that it is a good all rounder. WinXP (shudder) will always be an option open to businesses, but my company researches open source alternatives for businesses. The requirement is to find an operating system that will offer a seamless transition, as if the user was moving to a new version of windows (shudder). So far, my tests on ubuntu have shown that this is the case. however, since windows xp (shudder) is already a standard in business, I have no need to test it out for business use... I am looking to offer people a more affordable yet powerful, flexible, functional and user friendly alternative.

I could easily stick the client on to a FreeBSD system, but then I will end up doing a great deal of tech support, as it is not as user friendly as windows (I know I will get a lot of evil eyes for that statement).

Anyway... ubuntu is looking good from my side... will be checking out the other distros of ubuntu soon...