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ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 02:12 AM
Some of you may have notice my other thread about have trouble with getting Ubuntu installed over the last 4 days due to EFI and manual partitioning confusion. On the advice of a member, which I may not have followed correctly, I chose to partition 500 MB and set as a EFI bootloader and assign the grub to boot on that partition. Still got the same crash as before and Ubuntu failed to install. And now Windows 7 will not boot. It looks like Ubuntu is no longer booting in EFI but legacy as I noticed a different screen and remember reading about the different screens between Ubuntu and EFI and Legacy modes. My priority is to recover my Windows 7 cause it would be a disaster to lose it considering my work on it. Then, I would like to run Ubuntu alongside. I have backed up windows 7 on my flash but have no idea where to go. Can someone help? Thanks in advance. If I sound desperate, that's because I am. Thanks.

david98
September 20th, 2013, 02:18 AM
when you installed ubuntu did you click install alongside windows 7 or do something else like creating your own partition ?

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 02:24 AM
something else

david98
September 20th, 2013, 02:28 AM
if i was you i would delete ubuntu go back and reinstall it clicking install along side window's 7 should install grub 2.0. when you turn your computer on after that it will give you a choice to boot ubuntu' window's 7' or older versions of linux

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 02:29 AM
Error: No boot disk has been detected or the disk has failed.

david98
September 20th, 2013, 02:34 AM
Try running it through a live cd then go to gparted and check the 'boot' flag is already set on sda2.

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 02:40 AM
Try running it through a live cd then go to gparted and check the 'boot' flag is already set on sda2.
i'm not familiar with gparted so may have to look that up. how do i delete ubuntu? the ubuntu installation crashed. i've tried to install it for 4 days now. i can boot from my flash drive to ubuntu installation, but that's all i got.

ok found gparted and right clicked on sda2 and checked boot. Do i restart?

david98
September 20th, 2013, 02:49 AM
Boot from live flash drive then run gparted to format partition ubuntu was on once done reinstall ubuntu click on install alongside windows 7 should work no problem that's what i have done on my laptop.

david98
September 20th, 2013, 02:51 AM
Here's a bit info on gparted https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowtoPartition

david98
September 20th, 2013, 02:58 AM
Yes restart installation and install alongside windows

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 03:04 AM
why i chose something else is because i can't get alongside to work either. it started giving me only about 6gb to install ubuntu on and i wanted to partition for more. the slider in the installation only showed about 12 gb on my system. i have windows back up now. thank you so much for that. that's why i want linux because it just works. but i can't get installation to work. thanks to you and gparted for getting me back up! i'm trying 12.04. i noticed 13.04 gave me more gb to work with on the slider during install. should i try that?

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 03:06 AM
I would try to get Windows booting again before I did anything else.
Do you have a Windows repair/installation disc for the version you were running?
If so you should boot from that and select "repair my computer" and let that run. You may need to run that repair 3 times. See what it finds.
If you don't have a disc you should download a repair disc for your Windows version and architecture (ie 32 bit/64 bit) and burn that to a cd.

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 03:08 AM
Lol, ignore my last post if Windows is now booting normally.
If you want to shrink your Windows partition to give more room for Ubuntu you should use Windows Disk Management - nothing else!
Once that's done you should reboot Windows at least twice before doing anything else.

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 03:10 AM
windows is back. gparted helped with the previous advice. and as i mentioned in my other post, i keep getting this message The 'grub-efi-amd64-signed' package failed to install into /target/. Without the GRUB boot loader, the installed system will not boot. while trying to install ubuntu in any way, shape or form.

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 03:15 AM
Do you have an (U)EFI system? Do you have a GUID partition table?
I'm not sure whether gparted is completely GPT aware and if not can cause damage.

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 03:15 AM
i just cleared up new partitions in windows disk management and have 75 gb free space on a partition separate from windows.

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 03:39 AM
Did you see post 15?

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 03:39 AM
Do you have an (U)EFI system? Do you have a GUID partition table?
I'm not sure whether gparted is completely GPT aware and if not can cause damage.
its working now after gparted. i'm not sure about the lingo you mentioned but can tell you i'm running windows 7 64 bit on a 1 year old computer. i can give you any info you may need above that. but windows booted this time after checking boot from the right click on sda2 in gparted. before that, it was bad news.

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 03:41 AM
not sure, new here, how do i find it?

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 03:47 AM
So you moved the boot flag to sda2 in gparted, which is your Windows partition, presumably.
Sadly I'm not familiar with UEFI Windows systems.
How many partitions show in Windows disk management window?
I believe you said earlier that you created a 500MB EFI partition? Are there now 2 of those or just 1?

david98
September 20th, 2013, 03:51 AM
Go back in to gparted delete any partitions you are not using. ie (leave window's alone) format free space then install linux alongside window's and it should automatically use the free space on you'r hard drive:p

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 04:18 AM
Go back in to gparted delete any partitions you are not using. ie (leave window's alone) format free space then install linux alongside window's and it should automatically use the free space on you'r hard drive:p
do i format as a ntsf?

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 04:24 AM
So you moved the boot flag to sda2 in gparted, which is your Windows partition, presumably.
Sadly I'm not familiar with UEFI Windows systems.
How many partitions show in Windows disk management window?
I believe you said earlier that you created a 500MB EFI partition? Are there now 2 of those or just 1?

i now have a pqservice, system reserved, acer, and my new unallocated free space

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 04:29 AM
And Windows, presumably :-)
What format is the system reserved partition?
And where's the 500MB EFI partition you created?

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 04:35 AM
And Windows, presumably :-)
What format is the system reserved partition?
And where's the 500MB EFI partition you created?

I deleted the new partitions and started over after the efi. i can't format the disk. the option isn't lighting up when i mouse over. it just says free space. extended. acer is the windows partition.

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 04:41 AM
If your system is a UEFI system the Ubuntu installer should pick that up and install accordingly (it should detect an EFI partition, if there is one).
If your system is not UEFI the installer should install Ubuntu in the normal (older) way using grub-pc rather than grub_efi.

I don't know which your system uses and I, personally, would stop and check that.

If you really want to go ahead and try to install Ubuntu you can run the installer and see what happens. I would recommend first though that you make Windows recovery discs and a Windows repair disc as if Ubuntu fails to install properly it may stop Windows booting, which will need to be repaired with a repair disc.

EDIT
Is your system showing an extended partition? It would seem so, which means it's not a UEFI system.
If the free space is named as free space then it's probably still within the extended partition and not usable by Ubuntu unless you create partitions manually.
Unallocated space would probably be preferable which would be achieved by shrinking the extended partition.

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 04:51 AM
According to what i've seen on screenshots ubuntu is installing as uefi. not legacy. i already have 3 partitions and to my understanding i can't have more than 4. getting confused on how best to approach that. i've tried installing alongside windows 7 and multiple manual options. i have got to missing a detail somewhere. however, and again, after 20 hours over 4 days and trying advice from 2 forum posts this is what i get when the installer crashes. The 'grub-efi-amd64-signed' package failed to install into /target/. Without the GRUB boot loader, the installed system will not boot.

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 05:00 AM
If you have an extended partition you have a MBR partitioned drive, which has a maximum of 4 primary partitions (or 3 plus one extended partition, which can hold multiple logical partitions).
As far as I'm aware (U)EFI booting systems use a GUID partition table (ie no extended partitions) under which as many as 128 partitions can be present (in theory).

Was that grub_efi message appearing whilst your self-created 500MB EFI partition was present? That would explain it.

Ubuntu will not install in "free space", as that is usually contained within an extended partition, unless appropriate partitions are created first.
Ubuntu will install into unallocated space, which is not contained within an extended partition. This would give the option of a "side by side" installation of Ubuntu.

It sounds like your free space is inside an extended partition and that extended partition can be shrunk which will then create unallocated space which Ubuntu can use.

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 05:10 AM
I only noticed it was extended in gparted. just says free space in windows disk manager. the 500mb efi partition was another attempt at something different. i've gotten that message and install crash every time i try it. if i don't do anything (including pre-partitioning) and just run alongside install, it won't let me use the slider to select enough space for my liking. only about 6gb. i'm shooting for 60 or more. sounds like from what you're saying. i should go back to disk manager and shrink my windows volume to get the free space. then shrink the free space to get the unallocated? in gparted in shows an extended with an unallocated branched in under it in the table. ???

and thank you for all your help this far. i would love to make this work. not one to give up, but really don't want to damage the disk or screw up the boot on this computer either.

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 05:15 AM
No problem.
You don't need to shrink the Windows partition, I suspect.
I suspect that viewed in Windows Disk Management window you will see a thin (green I think) outline around your free space. That is Windows' way of saying that it's inside an extended partition. Does that coloured outline encompass another partition preceding that free space?
You can shrink that outlined part (the "free space") down to the preceding partition, if there is one.
That will then give "unallocated space" rather than "free space", which Ubuntu can then use in a "side by side" installation.

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 05:37 AM
Actually that won't work if you've already got 4 partitions. Sorry, that's my fault - it's 5-35am here.
We need to see your current partition layout. Can you post a screenshot of either your Windows Disk Management screen or from gparted after booting from the Ubuntu live cd/usb and choosing "try Ubuntu"

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 06:32 AM
I restored it to the way it was and then shrank the windows drive again and now it says unallocated and with black bar instead of free space with green bar.
http://s21.postimg.org/xtb68vmnr/20130920_012802.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
img (http://postimage.org/)

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 06:41 AM
That's better :-)
Now the Ubuntu installer should offer you an "install alongside" option.
As it's your first Ubuntu installation I would just allow Ubuntu to do the partitioning and use that alongside option. It will create a swap partition (iirc) and a root (/) partition. Separate /boot and /home partitions are not necessary as such, though in a future installation maybe a separate /home partition could be tried as is preferred by some.

Actually it's probably easier to tell it to use the unallocated space and let it do its thing.

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 08:10 AM
8-10am here now, so it's bedtime for me.
Good luck with your installation. I'll look in later to see how things went.

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 03:40 PM
Grub2 did not install again and installation crashed. Same message and problem as before.

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 05:01 PM
Ouch.
Did you see Oldfred's reply to your other thread?
We need to know what's happening with your system. How it boots and in what mode.
It may be a UEFI machine but booting in bios mode. Can you enter your bios and tell us what booting options are there please and what are currently set?
Also if you could boot into the Ubuntu cd/usb and select "try Ubuntu" then when the desktop loads open a terminal and run
sudo fdisk -land post the output here please.

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 05:22 PM
It may be worth having a look at these pages (if you haven't already)
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI#Identifying_if_the_computer_boots_the_HDD_in_ EFI_mode

oldfred
September 20th, 2013, 05:34 PM
Closed your other thread as duplicate.

It looks like your system is in BIOS boot mode for Windows and then has to have MBR(msdos) partitioning.
Post the fdisk suggested by Quackers. Only with confirmation of how Windows is installed can we best suggest what to do.
Also some BIOS have locked MBR with security settings which then prevents grub from installing to MBR. Have you checked UEFI/BIOS for MBR security or similar settings?

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 05:52 PM
Ouch.
Did you see Oldfred's reply to your other thread?
We need to know what's happening with your system. How it boots and in what mode.
It may be a UEFI machine but booting in bios mode. Can you enter your bios and tell us what booting options are there please and what are currently set?
Also if you could boot into the Ubuntu cd/usb and select "try Ubuntu" then when the desktop loads open a terminal and run
sudo fdisk -land post the output here please.


hard to tell from the font but is that sudo fdisk -1. as in the #1?

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 05:55 PM
It's a lower case L but if you copy/paste it then it won't matter ;)

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 05:55 PM
and sorry for the similar thread. it started as a different problem but back to same thing again. thanks for closing.

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 06:01 PM
Ouch.
Did you see Oldfred's reply to your other thread?
We need to know what's happening with your system. How it boots and in what mode.
It may be a UEFI machine but booting in bios mode. Can you enter your bios and tell us what booting options are there please and what are currently set?
Also if you could boot into the Ubuntu cd/usb and select "try Ubuntu" then when the desktop loads open a terminal and run
sudo fdisk -land post the output here please.

ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ sudo fdisk -l

Disk /dev/sda: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders, total 976773168 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x7b4d19a1

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 2048 35653631 17825792 27 Hidden NTFS WinRE
/dev/sda2 * 35653632 35858431 102400 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
/dev/sda3 35858432 819482623 391812096 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT

Disk /dev/sdg: 1028 MB, 1028980224 bytes
4 heads, 8 sectors/track, 62803 cylinders, total 2009727 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x00000000

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sdg1 * 8 2009726 1004859+ c W95 FAT32 (LBA)
ubuntu@ubuntu:~$

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 06:03 PM
my live usb now has 13.04 by the way in case it matters. gave up on 12.04. but feel free to let me know if that was a mistake.

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 06:09 PM
Thanks. When you boot the Ubuntu live usb I presume you get a black screen with a couple of lines of type at top left rather than the purple screen with the little man at the bottom?

oldfred
September 20th, 2013, 06:10 PM
Version should not make any difference.
You have a BIOS boot Windows with the standard 100MB Windows hidden boot partition sda2 and main install in sda3.

Use Windows to shrink the main Windows install to make unallocated space for Ubuntu. Do not create partitions with Windows as it may want to convert to dynamic partitions from basic. Reboot into Windows so it can run chkdsk and make repairs for its new size.

I usually partition in advance with gparted but you can do it during install. You will have to create sda4 as an extended partition including all the unallocated space. Then inside the extended you can create an unlimited number of logical partitions. All your new partitions will be logical.

For the Total space you want for Ubuntu:
Ubuntu's standard install is just / (root) & swap, but it is better to add another partition for /home if allocating over 30GB.:

for gpt(GUID) or MBR(msdos) partitioning
Ubuntu partitions - smaller root only where hard drive space is limited.
If total space less than about 30GB just use / not separate /home or standard install.
1. 10-25 GB Mountpoint / primary or logical beginning ext4(or ext3)
2. all but 2 GB Mountpoint /home logical beginning ext4(or ext3)
3. 2 GB Mountpoint swap logical

Depending on how much memory you have you may not absolutely need swap but having some is still recommended. I do not hibernate (boots fast enough for me) but if hibernating then you need swap equal to RAM in GiB not GB. And if dual booting with windows a shared NTFS partition is also recommended. But you usually cannot create that as part of the install, just leave some space. Or partition in advance (recommended).
One advantage of partitioning in advance is that the installer will use the swap space to speed up the install. Thanks Herman for the tip.
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DiskSpace


Installer has not really changed, so you can install with 13.04 and screens will be almost the same in these examples.
Install with separate /home from aysiu
http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/installseparatehome
(http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/installseparatehome)
Install 12.04.1 with screenshots of Unity, gnome3, & gnome fallback - Not everything is necessary, but shows how to do many things
http://*********************.com/


(http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/installseparatehome)


(https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DiskSpace)

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 06:27 PM
Thanks. When you boot the Ubuntu live usb I presume you get a black screen with a couple of lines of type at top left rather than the purple screen with the little man at the bottom?

first screen is black with try ubuntu, install, etc. then ubunu logo on purple screen after selecting try.

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 06:31 PM
Thanks. See what Oldfred has to say but Ubuntu live usb is definitely booting in EFI mode. With your system it needs to boot in bios mode. To change that there will be a setting in your computer's bios.
In this mode grub_efi cannot be installed. It should be installing grub-pc.

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 06:55 PM
And if dual booting with windows a shared NTFS partition is also recommended. But you usually cannot create that as part of the install, just leave some space. Or partition in advance (recommended). This I do not understand completely and would mean I do need to partition in advance instead of during install. ? I don't understand how to just "leave some space." Thanks for all the help. I'm not gonna give up just yet.

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 07:01 PM
Give up? Certainly not!
A shared partition is a matter of choice only.
Leaving space is accomplished in the "something else" option partitioning screen. You just don't use all of the available space - you make a swap partition and a root (/) partition but leave some space unallocated. Or create an NTFS partition in that unallocated space if you so desire.

Anyway, you need to get the Ubuntu live usb to boot in bios mode first or you won't be installing or partitioning anything.
Any news on your bios settings in that regard?

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 07:07 PM
yes sir! got my bios up and it was priority as an efi boot. i selected the other usb option and got the screen with the "little man" on the bottom now. should i partition in advance in gparted? or just try the alongside option?

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 07:15 PM
Excellent! :-)
I would choose the "something else" option and create the partitions you want from the 75GB unallocated space you created earlier.
I would suggest a swap partition, a root (/) partition and if you want a separate /home partition do that. If you want a NTFS data partition you can create that too but as you've only got 75GB that might be a squeeze.
With the live usb booting in bios mode it should now install grub normally (without grub_efi) and the installation should complete.

If you pre-partition with gparted you will still need to use the "something else" option in order to choose their mount points anyway.

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 07:24 PM
If the NTFS data partition isn't necessary, then I won't worry about it. However, if you recommend I can allocate additional space as I've got more to work with. Just wasn't sure what I needed but assumed 75 gb would be plenty for files. I read the /home was a good practice so will do that. I will allocate 20gb to the / root. 4 gb to the swap. and remaining to home. I will make / as a primary. and the rest logical. and choose the / root to install to. any issues there? thanks again.

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 07:27 PM
Just one.
As you already have 3 primary partitions any new new partitions will need to be logical partitions - all of them. This is not a problem as Ubuntu can boot from a logical partition.
You can always create a NTFS shared data partition if you want at a later date (though that too would need to be logical - i.e. inside the extended partition that Ubuntu will automatically create once logical partitions are created.

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 08:01 PM
Thank you so much and wish me luck. Here we go.

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 08:05 PM
Good Luck :)

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 08:08 PM
one more thing. what device do i choose for bootloader

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 08:11 PM
If your main hard drive is /dev/sda in Linux then the default position for grub will do (/dev/sda). I suspect it is /dev/sda (NOTE no partition number!) but you should check to make sure as sometimes the bios will make a usb drive /dev/sda

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 08:26 PM
stuck on retrieving file 40 of 102. and looks like it killed my internet connection again. i've had to reset my router after every attempt.

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 08:28 PM
Did you select to download updates and install 3rd party drivers during the installation? Try without, if you did.

oldfred
September 20th, 2013, 08:30 PM
Also are you using hard wired Ethernet connection? Best to use for install as sometimes it needs to download the wireless drivers and that causes issues.

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 09:51 PM
I think the hard wired internet was an issue as I was using wireless. As well as going into BIOS to change from EFI boot to Legacy. I now have Ubuntu 13.04. Hope I shouldn't have got 12.04 instead. But we shall see. Thanks you guys for all the help and sticking with me. I bypassed installing updates and 3rd party software during install. Now I've got to figure that out to make sure I'm all up to date and ready to rock. Thanks again. One of the best forums I've been on for any subject matter. Very impressive. And 3 more computers to go that are still XP. Hope its as easy now I know what's up.

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 09:55 PM
Excellent! :)
Glad to hear that. Did the grub menu include an entry for the Windows loader? If it does try to load Windows from it.
If it didn't try running
sudo update-grub in a terminal and watch to see that it is picked up in the output, then try to boot it.

With regard to your different computers it's possible that older versions of Ubuntu may be advisable, but only trial and error will decide that.

Well done! Perseverence is good! :)

By the way I find it's better (read safer) to install synaptic package manager to run updates rather than using the software centre thingy.

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 10:33 PM
it will be my first install then. i will search for synaptic now. thanks again. life saver today. chalk up a successful support and keep up the good work.

Quackers
September 20th, 2013, 10:41 PM
Nice one! Glad to help :-)

oldfred
September 20th, 2013, 10:53 PM
Glad you got it working. :)

Run this to update everything after # is just my notes, do not copy
#resync package index
sudo apt-get update
#newest versions of all packages, update must be run first
sudo apt-get upgrade

To get the restricted extras:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats

ddubbz1979
September 20th, 2013, 11:59 PM
Killer man. Thanks. Always open for tips. I'm a noob. Is this all the updates I need? Thanks again for all the persistance and help.