UserLinux and Ubuntu (and then some more)

[totalshredder]

Well, as I'm sure some of you have heard, there's a lot of rumors about ubuntu joining up with UserLinux.
http://linux.slashdot.org/...tid=106 (http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/05/03/23/1820243.shtml?tid=163&tid=90&tid=106)

Very strange stuff, but it gets even worse, check out this:

http://lists.userlinux.com/pipermail/discuss/2005-March/007252.html

The plot is really getting interesting! I, for one, am really disapointed at all the debian people, they seem to think they rule their code(hehe, shouldn't have gone GNU). They're getting way too greedy, and I think it's really hurting them; and NOT ubuntu. :-k

What are your opinions?

Luke

[jdodson]

Well, as I'm sure some of you have heard, there's a lot of rumors about ubuntu joining up with UserLinux.
http://linux.slashdot.org/...tid=106 (http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/05/03/23/1820243.shtml?tid=163&tid=90&tid=106)

Very strange stuff, but it gets even worse, check out this:

http://lists.userlinux.com/pipermail/discuss/2005-March/007252.html


thats a really strange post by Thomas Templin. basically Thomas states that Europe is beginning to dislike ubuntu. yeah ok sure, ummm i really doubt Thomas can make a statement like that. is he running polls and making phone calls? how could most of europe hate ubuntu when most europe does not even know about ubuntu? i know he means open source europe, however i still don't think he has any base to make that claim, unless his friends span the entire EU, which is far from the totality of europe. the guys at lugradio(they happen to reside in the UK) practially make out with ubuntu every radio show(i don't think that is a bad thing, if you heard me talk you might think i wanted to ask ubuntu to marry me), so don't tell me that open source europe dislikes ubuntu. it is as false as the statement that "all americans support george bush and like the iraq war" it is simply wrong, because some americans support the war, does not follow that ALL americans or even a majority of americans.

as for ubuntu being a team player, they are what they are. ubuntu really does not owe anything to tradeshows. if it chooses to attend, it can in fact attend or help. however, i am not sure why they are obligated to help just because they are a community. not to say helping is bad, i personally think it is good, however "just because everyone is doing it" is not a good reason. it is a high school excuse to sling mud.

Thomas also cites that debian people are more and more unhappy with ubuntu. he might know more about this that i do, however are not debian developers ubuntu developers? did the switch to ubuntu somehow make them mortal foes? it seems that ubuntu helps debian by pushing all changes back to the debian mix. why would that **** anyone off? it might be that debian is somewhat jealous of the "new kid." that might not be the case, but simply stating that debian people are mad at ubuntu with little reason is not a very clear arguement. and simply stating that they pulled the ubuntu demo means nothing in an of itself, beyond that fact that they indeed removed the demo. it does not offer any explanation as to why it was removed. the only reason that Thomas gave was because they don't "play by the rules" whatever that means.


The plot is really getting interesting! I, for one, am really disapointed at all the debian people, they seem to think they rule their code(hehe, shouldn't have gone GNU). They're getting way too greedy, and I think it's really hurting them; and NOT ubuntu. :-k

i don't think debian developers are greedy. i am not disapointed by debian people, because i have really never been totally impressed by them. there was a need for ubuntu, ubuntu takes the best of debian and makes it better. no sinse in faulting ubuntu for going a different direction. debian is poised to go a new direction in the way it votes for new leadership. if the debian community wants to change, it will. if it wants to stay the way it always has, then it will stay put. either way it will be the best base for ubuntu and ubuntu will be the best base for my desktop and server.

[poofyhairguy]

Thomas also cites that debian people are more and more unhappy with ubuntu. he might know more about this that i do, however are not debian developers ubuntu developers? did the switch to ubuntu somehow make them mortal foes? it seems that ubuntu helps debian by pushing all changes back to the debian mix. why would that **** anyone off? it might be that debian is somewhat jealous of the "new kid." that might not be the case, but simply stating that debian people are mad at ubuntu with little reason is not a very clear arguement. and simply stating that they pulled the ubuntu demo means nothing in an of itself, beyond that fact that they indeed removed the demo. it does not offer any explanation as to why it was removed. the only reason that Thomas gave was because they don't "play by the rules" whatever that means.

The some of the Debian people are scared its a fork. These same ones can't sleep because the binary drivers haunt them at night...

[jdodson]

The some of the Debian people are scared its a fork. These same ones can't sleep because the binary drivers haunt them at night...

then why do they include mp3 playback on the debian testing install cd? :mrgreen:i know thats not a binary driver, but mp3 is proprietary

i think i remember seeing the binary nvidia drivers in the debian package repositories too. :?:

then again ubuntu includes both of those and i don't fault them for it.

[az]

"The plot is really getting interesting! I, for one, am really disapointed at all the debian people, they seem to think they rule their code(hehe, shouldn't have gone GNU). They're getting way too greedy, and I think it's really hurting them; and NOT ubuntu. "

1- Userlinux is what ubuntu would have been if Ubuntu had been there first and had not had funding. It is a great idea very similar to ubuntu. To have their team pirch in is a great thing. Otherwise, it would seem that it would be wasted.

2- Debian is huge. It has an incredible number of people involved. at any one time, people make statements regarding debian and people take them as if the leader of the project said them. Basically, until a few hunded people think the same thing, never mind what you read on one post.

You should look through a few archives of the debian mailing lists. When you have so many inteligent people collaborating, they do not always agree.



"am really disapointed at all the debian people, they seem to think they rule their code(hehe, shouldn't have gone GNU)"

That is an off-the-wall statement. Do you know what is involved in maintaining a debian package? You have a lot to owe "the debian people"


"These same ones can't sleep because the binary drivers haunt them at night..."

Blood is spurting from my ears at this. No one is going to prevent you from using binary driver if you chose to. The point is with debian you get a choice. You want it? Enable the non-free repository.
In a few years, what is to stop one OS from becoming the next Windows? If you do not draw the line and say free software should be this, you are condemning yourself in the future to losing your freedom. Again, you do not have to have the same feelings to use Debian. Just do not mock those who do.

[totalshredder]

"The plot is really getting interesting! I, for one, am really disapointed at all the debian people, they seem to think they rule their code(hehe, shouldn't have gone GNU). They're getting way too greedy, and I think it's really hurting them; and NOT ubuntu. "

1- Userlinux is what ubuntu would have been if Ubuntu had been there first and had not had funding. It is a great idea very similar to ubuntu. To have their team pirch in is a great thing. Otherwise, it would seem that it would be wasted.

2- Debian is huge. It has an incredible number of people involved. at any one time, people make statements regarding debian and people take them as if the leader of the project said them. Basically, until a few hunded people think the same thing, never mind what you read on one post.

You should look through a few archives of the debian mailing lists. When you have so many inteligent people collaborating, they do not always agree.

"am really disapointed at all the debian people, they seem to think they rule their code(hehe, shouldn't have gone GNU)"

That is an off-the-wall statement. Do you know what is involved in maintaining a debian package? You have a lot to owe "the debian people"



Thanks for bringing all this up, it obviously shows how much I still have to learn about the linux world! My statement was a off there, I shouldn't have said that debian was the ones that had problems, mostly just that one guy posting there.

Where can I read more about userlinux? It seemse as if it's an interesting project.

Do you guys think it is actually possible for this colaboration to take place?

[poofyhairguy]

Just do not mock those who do.

Sorry. You are right.

[gylf]

Thanks for bringing all this up, it obviously shows how much I still have to learn about the linux world! My statement was a off there, I shouldn't have said that debian was the ones that had problems, mostly just that one guy posting there.

Where can I read more about userlinux? It seemse as if it's an interesting project.

www.userlinux.com? :) There is a FAQ on there wiki I read a few weeks ago that was pretty infomative, here. (http://userlinux.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?FAQ)


Do you guys think it is actually possible for this colaboration to take place?
Anything is possible. What you want to know is whether it is likely, and for that I will defer to those more knowledgable about Debian.

Let me close by saying that Azz, you have the greatest avatar on this forum. I don't know why its so funny but I bust up everytime I see it. :)

[Glanz]

I frequently throw in my 32 cents about binaries and debian-legal, but the fact remains, as azz pointed out, Debian is HUGE!
Debian must operate using a strict methodology. Even those Debian developers who do not agree with decisions concerning the distribution, platforms, drivers, what is "free" and what is non-free, the methodology works because in a community of developers, users, and part-time bug squishers one swallows ones often false pride and carries on with the work. I have been using Debian from its inception in all its varieties and am continually amazed that this distribution has maintained such a high degree of excellence.

That said, I just love to complain, bitchandmoan.... You know... the old fart syndrome about "da way thingies used to be"..... I like Ubuntu because of the spirit of sharing among users, experts and otherwise, the lack of animosity for those who are completely clueless when it comes to Linux in general, and the patience of guys like azz......