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Stormy Eyes
July 15th, 2006, 07:25 PM
I see a lot of threads and comments here and elsewhere that share a common sentiment: "If only there were more games for Linux...", or "If only you could download EXEs for Linux like you can for Windows...", or "If only Linux came preinstalled..." There are a lot of people who think that all the people who haven't adopted Linux yet are waiting for some magical feature or killer app.

I have my doubts. I got into Linux back in 1999, when both KDE and GNOME were version 1.x. I didn't have a forum to help me; I didn't have reliable internet access. I had a PC, a copy of Red Hat 5.2, and a secondhand copy of Running Linux. The applications were crap compared to those available for Linux today. The functionality was crap, and hardware detection was a joke.

I didn't let Linux's limitations stop me. I didn't let the lack of games stop me. I didn't let the lack of support stop me. I didn't let the fact that most Linux software was rough and poorly documented stop me. I persevered, adapted to the system, and bent it to my will.

I'll admit that I'm bragging a little, but I think that waiting for a magical feature or a killer app to suddenly open the floodgates and cause a mass conversion towards Linux is not only futile, but counterproductive. There's very little that is revolutionary about Linux. Even OSS isn't revolutionary; it's just the scientific method applied to software development. Instead, Linux development is evolutionary, just like life.

Stop waiting for the revolution. It will never come. Stop hoping for a mass conversion. It won't happen. Instead, what will happen is what has been happening for years: those who want to use Linux will find a way to do so, and they will let nothing stop them.

Focus on and help those who won't be stopped, and be kind to the dabblers. Take it slow and take it easy, Linux has already come a hell of a long way since 1999. I should know; I've been a user that long, and still am.

OffHand
July 15th, 2006, 08:22 PM
What exactly is your point?

ComplexNumber
July 15th, 2006, 08:31 PM
What exactly is your point?
making people see linux in a more realistic perspective for those people that don't, i imagine.

fuscia
July 15th, 2006, 08:32 PM
btw, how's your macbook?

RAV TUX
July 15th, 2006, 09:19 PM
btw, how's your macbook?


I read an article, about a study of how you can optimize your Macbook by utilizing Yellow Dog Linux.

awakatanka
July 15th, 2006, 09:32 PM
Time changes , so does demands.

BWF89
July 15th, 2006, 09:36 PM
Yeah, Linux has never seen a mass migration of people and never will.

tseliot
July 15th, 2006, 09:49 PM
I see a lot of threads and comments here and elsewhere that share a common sentiment: "If only there were more games for Linux...", or "If only you could download EXEs for Linux like you can for Windows...", or "If only Linux came preinstalled..." There are a lot of people who think that all the people who haven't adopted Linux yet are waiting for some magical feature or killer app.

I have my doubts. I got into Linux back in 1999, when both KDE and GNOME were version 1.x. I didn't have a forum to help me; I didn't have reliable internet access. I had a PC, a copy of Red Hat 5.2, and a secondhand copy of Running Linux. The applications were crap compared to those available for Linux today. The functionality was crap, and hardware detection was a joke.

I didn't let Linux's limitations stop me. I didn't let the lack of games stop me. I didn't let the lack of support stop me. I didn't let the fact that most Linux software was rough and poorly documented stop me. I persevered, adapted to the system, and bent it to my will.
You're definitely not the average Joe, aren't you?

I see your point though.


I'll admit that I'm bragging a little, but I think that waiting for a magical feature or a killer app to suddenly open the floodgates and cause a mass conversion towards Linux is not only futile, but counterproductive. There's very little that is revolutionary about Linux. Even OSS isn't revolutionary; it's just the scientific method applied to software development. Instead, Linux development is evolutionary, just like life.

Stop waiting for the revolution. It will never come. Stop hoping for a mass conversion. It won't happen. Instead, what will happen is what has been happening for years: those who want to use Linux will find a way to do so, and they will let nothing stop them.

Focus on and help those who won't be stopped, and be kind to the dabblers. Take it slow and take it easy, Linux has already come a hell of a long way since 1999. I should know; I've been a user that long, and still am.
Here I do 100% agree with you. GNU/Linux is evolving and it's good to see how well it's growing up.

Carrots171
July 15th, 2006, 10:27 PM
There won't be a massive migration towards Linux. Instead, Linux will grow, improve, and evolve. I'm not hoping for some kind of revolution or "year of the Linux desktop". I just hope (and I believe) that over time, Linux will gain the recognition that Mac has now - an alternative OS that's not just for computer nerds and specialists.

Stormy Eyes
July 15th, 2006, 11:30 PM
What exactly is your point?

I'm supposed to have a point when I'm drunk? Seriously: I'm just tired of all the people speculating on what Linux "needs" to "be ready for the desktop".

Stormy Eyes
July 15th, 2006, 11:32 PM
I read an article, about a study of how you can optimize your Macbook by utilizing Yellow Dog Linux.

Given that the MacBook uses Intel gear, if I got tired of OS X I'd just grab a Dapper ISO and install Ubuntu. Yellow Dog, tired jokes aside, is for PPC gear.

Stormy Eyes
July 15th, 2006, 11:33 PM
You're definitely not the average Joe, aren't you?

I don't think I ever claimed to be. I don't represent anybody but myself and the voices in my head.

RAV TUX
July 16th, 2006, 12:03 AM
can you let us know more about the voice in your head?

Stormy Eyes
July 16th, 2006, 03:24 AM
can you let us know more about the voice in your head?

Which one? I've got a friggin' pantheon in here; we are legion.

Harold P
July 16th, 2006, 03:51 AM
I'm sure if large stores like Best Buy and Circuit City started selling PCs with Linux preinstalled (with codecs and such in there, but I don't know about the legal end of that, but you get my point), and home users bought them, Linux would gain a significant market share. I don't think a majority conversion is very probable in the next 1 to 2 years, though.

RAV TUX
July 16th, 2006, 04:08 AM
I'm sure if large stores like Best Buy and Circuit City started selling PCs with Linux preinstalled (with codecs and such in there, but I don't know about the legal end of that, but you get my point), and home users bought them, Linux would gain a significant market share. I don't think a majority conversion is very probable in the next 1 to 2 years, though.

I recently went into a CompUSA store, for convience. My wife wanted a ultralite notebook, since they sold both Macs and PCs...I thought they may be able to sale a linux notebook.

I first told the salesman I had a budget of $4000 to spend on a ultralight notebook, but I had one important specification it had to come preloaded with Ubuntu Linux.

He proceed to tell me the benifits of Windows, I told him that it must come preloaded with Ubuntu Linux, but to have a good day.

I then proceeded to leave but stopped at the customer service desk. I asked for the manager on duty. He came and I told him the same specifications, I had a $4000 budget for a ultralight notebook for my wife but that she insist that it come preloaded with Ubuntu Linux.

He happily reassured me that they had what I needed and asked me to follow him to his computer lab to speak with his lead "tech".

I thought for a second now I am getting somewhere.

I again gave the lead "Tech" my specifications, $4000 budget for an ultralight notebook that must come preloaded with Ubuntu Linux as it's operating system.

he stated that they were not "Linux Certified" and therefore couldn't help me.

My wife and I eventually purchased a Fujitsu convertible (notebook/tablet) directly over the phone from Fujitsu, custom built which will take about 3 weeks to come in.

I will load Ubuntu on it myself when it comes in.

To see the notebook/tablet my wife bought refer to the thread link below:
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=213899

aysiu
July 16th, 2006, 05:47 AM
I'm with you, Stormy Eyes. I don't believe all these "if only Linux..." people would actually migrate over if Linux did have whatever feature or killer app they wanted. I believe they'd come up with other excuses.

And the floodgates don't come with a killer app. They come with preinstallation. I'm tired. I'm tired of arguing about whether Linux is "ready" or "not ready."

I've written enough essays to refute the FUD. If people want links, I'll link to them, but I think my energy would be better spent trying to help new users who need help, not help trolls who whine and complain.

RAV TUX
July 16th, 2006, 06:08 AM
I recently went into a CompUSA store, for convience. My wife wanted a ultralite notebook, since they sold both Macs and PCs...I thought they may be able to sale a linux notebook.

I first told the salesman I had a budget of $4000 to spend on a ultralight notebook, but I had one important specification it had to come preloaded with Ubuntu Linux.

He proceed to tell me the benifits of Windows, I told him that it must come preloaded with Ubuntu Linux, but to have a good day.

I then proceeded to leave but stopped at the customer service desk. I asked for the manager on duty. He came and I told him the same specifications, I had a $4000 budget for a ultralight notebook for my wife but that she insist that it come preloaded with Ubuntu Linux.

He happily reassured me that they had what I needed and asked me to follow him to his computer lab to speak with his lead "tech".

I thought for a second now I am getting somewhere.

I again gave the lead "Tech" my specifications, $4000 budget for an ultralight notebook that must come preloaded with Ubuntu Linux as it's operating system.

he stated that they were not "Linux Certified" and therefore couldn't help me.

My wife and I eventually purchased a Fujitsu convertible (notebook/tablet) directly over the phone from Fujitsu, custom built which will take about 3 weeks to come in.

I will load Ubuntu on it myself when it comes in.

To see the notebook/tablet my wife bought refer to the thread link below:
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=213899

I should say that I find this to be the main reason bug #1 will prevail...not because of some killer apt, etc. etc.

distribution to the masses has more to do with big business pushing thier OS to the computer companies and the retailers.

honestly I don't think it's important to be the leading OS on the planet.

Quality is better then quantity...just build an outstanding distro and always improve upon it and back it up with an awesome and helpful community.

This is what you have with Ubuntu. While still a bit rough around the edges it is nice to be apart of this awesome, beautiful and exciting community.

The reality is now and the time is ours, others may come and go but here I have found a worthy solution for my OS needs and this without a doubt is Ubuntu and other distros which I enjoy like dyne:bolic.

I am glad to be here and I am glad to know everyone here.

I thank all of you who are helpful and entertaining, I call ubuntuforums home.

Jozef

professor_chaos
July 16th, 2006, 06:51 AM
I'm supposed to have a point when I'm drunk? Seriously: I'm just tired of all the people speculating on what Linux "needs" to "be ready for the desktop".

Stormy, you in the US?
If so then your getting drunk pretty early in the day. :)

However, as I am getting drunk right now, I can say from one drunk to another, I agree with you. People need to stop complaining and "love it or leave it". I'm kinda kidding here... ;)
I don't foresee an overnight mass adoption of linux because this or that gets changed. Adoption will take time and arises from the dedication of users who dig in there heals and grind through the bugs and problems.

croak77
July 16th, 2006, 07:36 AM
I recently went into a CompUSA store, for convience. My wife wanted a ultralite notebook, since they sold both Macs and PCs...I thought they may be able to sale a linux notebook.



I don't know why you would think CompUSA would have preloaded Ubuntu laptops.

RAV TUX
July 16th, 2006, 07:45 AM
I don't know why you would think CompUSA would have preloaded Ubuntu laptops.

I really didn't think they would,(that is the point) just kind of fun to rub it in their face that their business model cost them up to $4000 in a sale.

I just wanted to see how detached they are from reality, or how detached I had become.

Honestly if I was the manager/owner of CompUSA, I would have loaded any computer with Ubuntu for $4000.

It is just all a bit silly, I found it a wonderful illustration of the existential realization of what the truth of our society is, a bit lost, empty and very silly.

Again a wonderful illustration of bug #1, Apple is capitalizing on this. They are not really a true alternative when you think of the bigger picture. Apple, Microsoft are two heads to the same beast.

B0rsuk
July 16th, 2006, 07:47 AM
It's closer to mass adoption than ever before.
I must admit that I'm not exactly thrilled about masses of arrogant, brainspoiled windows users coming to Linux; there are plenty of them on this forum. I enjoy the fact that so far Linux users are more technical and simply smarter than mac or windows users. Only people who aren't scared of learning use Linux.

I think you'll soon be surprised.I used linux for several years, until recently in dual boot (gates to hell - pun intended), and I see very good signs:

Some mac gurus just moved to ubuntu, and if have other mac users installing, comparing, or even considering linux, you know something is happening.
Ati finally realized their linux drivers suck big time compared to nvidia's and started to put some real effort into them. They released 2 new versions of linux drivers in 2 months or something.
Tom's Hardware wrote articles about linux before, but - for the first time - they just compared ati and nvidia drivers, cards, and performance in ut2004. In other words, they start acknowledging linux as a gaming platform, even if they say it has many quirks and problems.
As for games, there's long tradition of linux support in ID Software and Epic(unreal engines). Thanks to engines GPLed by ID Software/John Carmack, we now see a world of unprecedenced high quality, free fps games emerging. I may not like all of games mentioned below, but at least they do look good from technical side:
tremulous, nexuiz, warsow, true combat:elite, alien arena. If you also count closed source, add wolfenstein:enemy territory and legends. There's a tendency where former mods become standalone free games thanks to ID Software engines being GPLed. That's simply great, I can't wait for The Dark Mod going standalone: http://www.mindplaces.com/darkmod/

Games attract people, BIG TIME. And it's a lie adults don't play games. Habits change, and it's rather hard to find a Dominions2 player younger than 30 years.

That's why I think we'll see slowly increasing numbers of computers sold with linux preinstalled. If my mother is happy with Debian Sarge (I tweaked it a bit and added small number of scripts to ease the use of digital camera, for example), other people can be happy, too. There are a lot of people who don't need more than printing, photo storage, web browser(+banking), openoffice. We mostly see so many linux learning curve complaints because it doesn't come preinstalled, this is a fact. Properly set up and configured linux is very easy to use, and that's what matters. Regular users simply use computers, they don't have much fun installing whole OS. And with debian-based distro, even a nontechnical user can upgrade his distribution easily.

Linux adoption is not a revolution, but an evolution. It happens all the time, and it looks better than ever before. I'm really optimistic about Linux future now.

RAV TUX
July 16th, 2006, 08:00 AM
I must admit that I'm not exactly thrilled about masses of arrogant, brainspoiled windows users coming to Linux; there are plenty of them on this forum. I enjoy the fact that so far Linux users are more technical and simply smarter than mac or windows users. Only people who aren't scared of learning use Linux.



Remember the old saying:

"The masses are the asses"

perhaps we should turn all linux converts away 3 times before we let them use linux.

or perhaps only have it open by invitation only.

j/k

(I will honestly admit that there is a certain segment of the population that I feel are better suited for Apple then Linux)

croak77
July 16th, 2006, 08:00 AM
I just wanted to see how detached they are from reality, or how detached I had become.



Trust me it's all you. :mrgreen:

RAV TUX
July 16th, 2006, 08:03 AM
Trust me it's all you. :mrgreen:

LOL, Thanks that is the best compliment I have had all day. ;)

Stormy Eyes
July 16th, 2006, 01:43 PM
If people want links, I'll link to them, but I think my energy would be better spent trying to help new users who need help, not help trolls who whine and complain.

There's your mistake. :) You think that you can help trolls by reasoning with them, but trolls don't listen to reason. You've got a better chance of getting a kid who thinks school is a prison to appreciate Shakespeare.

Yossarian
July 16th, 2006, 04:34 PM
EDIT: I'd just like to add a disclaimer that the bellow is my opinion based only on my own specific circumstances as a Canadian noncomputer, but technical University student. So don't expect universal truths or a sermon on the mount or anything.


Excellent thread, Stormy Eyes.

I started using around 2002. KDE and GNOME were uglier. Alot of the apps were crap. Many apps still are. Openoffice, mozilla and firefox were pretty impressive early on, though.

I seem to be in a unique spot on these boards (or maybe it's my imagination) where I know alot of people who understand how computers work, have reinstalled OSs, setup hardware, etc, but are not linux users. I'm not so much a starry-eyed open source true believer, or FSF fundamentalist or anything like that, so I don't try to win people over. I offered some buddies ubuntu cds once, and I saw someone parking their beer on it at a party.

Anyways, back on track, I've never heard any of my pals say "I'd use Linux if had/could do/tasted like feature X". They just don't care about OSs. It's not fear uncertainty and doubt, its disinterest. An OS is just a pile of bits, and they've already got one. If they didn't have an OS, for some reason, and they couldn't pirate windows, they might use ubuntu over buying windows. Possibly.

Also, the Linux vs Windows balance has, as far as I'm concerned, been grossly misrepresented on this board. If this gets me tar and feathered, so be it, but the windows experience is only slightly worse for an experienced user, than the linux experience would be. And this is assuming no hardware issues with linux, which is a generous assumption. If we're talking conversions here, we're talking experienced users. None of this j6p interwebs doubletalk.

Windows can be virus and spyware free, with care. So that advantage of linux is annulled.

Windows can also be obtained at low OEM prices, or through a unversity, or something, for low or no cost. So that advantage is narrowly conceded to linux.

Ubuntu has a nice installer, but how often does one install an OS? Non-linux geeks, I mean (of which I'm one, so that isn't supposed to perjorative). So this advantage means nothing.

Software. Linux has an amazing wealth of freeware. Windows has most of this plus almost all commerical software. So this advantage resoundingly goes to windows, and its an important one.

I think continuing this would only be perverse, so I'll sign off. I hope it didn't sound like I was badding on Ubuntu there. I installed Dapper a few days ago, and I was gonna do a testimonial thread to say thank you; I was absolutely blown away. It's an absolute joy to use. I'm very happy with the current state of Free software today, silly politics and groupthink aside.

bruce89
July 16th, 2006, 05:49 PM
Ubuntu has a nice installer, but how often does one install an OS? Non-linux geeks, I mean (of which I'm one, so that isn't supposed to perjorative). So this advantage means nothing.
The fact of the matter is that Windows is preinstalled on hardware, its installer is a nightmare. Ubuntu takes about half the time, and is a lot easier.


Software. Linux has an amazing wealth of freeware. Windows has most of this plus almost all commerical software. So this advantage resoundingly goes to windows, and its an important one.
Linux has free software, not freeware, there is a difference. Yes, there aren't as many commercial applications for Linux, but that is becuase it is too small a market to bother with.

G Morgan
July 16th, 2006, 06:12 PM
My take on it is this. I agree entirely that Linux will grow by evolution rather than by revolution but I'd claim the following:

1. There will be micro-revolutions that give Linux a sudden boost a la XP D-Day and posibly with Vista when hardware requirements are considered. The opposite may also be true though but generally over time the commited user count will go up.

2. The rate of increase of Linux usage is proportional to current Linux usage while the Current/Potential users ratio is smaller than 0.1 (so that the number of users is insignificant to the number of potential users so unrestricted growth occurs). This will be caused due to greater market perception and improved hardware support mostly but will also occur because more users naturally means more devs.

3. When Linux becomes a serious competitor it won't be a revelation but something that has just happened over a long period. There'll be an increasing sense of Linux as a major OS as opposed to yesterday Linux was a geeks toy and today its a corperate standard OS.

4. The industry will use it before the home market. The home market will use it because industry uses it. Targeting the industry is paramount.

All we can do is continue to make it as easy as posible for people to get on board. For Linux adoption to occur at its fastest we should not place artificial barriers in peoples way (mostly this relates to zealotry).

rejser
July 16th, 2006, 06:12 PM
Come on, Linux is in Fashion and there are allot of semi-nerds that tried linux because it came with their new computer mag and now want's to save the world. :) (a hint of sarcasm)
I hope linux never will be desktop ready because then it will have to look for somewhere else for an os that let me tell it what I want and how I wan't it. Ubuntu is pushing the edge! Gentoo has taken it too far.
(old slacker)
But the most important bit of all, all that ain't into computers totaly gives a ****, they wan't to start and load, and i belive that the cost for oem win xp for dell is around 20$, so cost will never be an issue for the large pc-menufacturers.

Can anyone conferm if the cheap notebook in india featuring linux was made to reality? (was suppose to retail at about 150$ for about a year ago, now we get a notebook with 1gb ram for 350$ in sweden, that's ok)

Yossarian
July 16th, 2006, 06:14 PM
Orginally posted by bruce89
The fact of the matter is that Windows is preinstalled on hardware, its installer is a nightmare. Ubuntu takes about half the time, and is a lot easier.

Point most humbly conceded. Ubuntu's installer is miles ahead, but I'm not convinced windows' installer is that terrible. Either way, my point is that installation is a pretty minor part of the OS experience. Except when it doesn't work or can't be figured out. Even a terrible installer with a manual or something to read can be overcome.


Orginally posted by bruce89
Linux has free software, not freeware, there is a difference. Yes, there aren't as many commercial applications for Linux, but that is becuase it is too small a market to bother with.

That was sloppy phraseology on my part. Replace 'freeware' with 'free of charge software, regardless of license or lack thereof'. I was talking about firefox, winamp, opera, open office, all that jazz.

I'll put it another way: all the software I use under Ubuntu (although my needs are few, so I might be a bad example) either have windows ports or windows equivalents available free of charge (eg I might not be able to amaroK, but I can get winamp or iTunes). Open office, firefox, opera, gaim, evolution, thunderbird, frostwire, java, calculators, text editors, and games. Also, if I desperatly needed one app, I'm pretty sure unix-like systems can be virtualized under windows. I've never done it, but I heard someone mention you can actually run KDE under windows by doing this.

No-one's going to switch to Ubuntu so they can use open office, gnome office, or practically any linux program. In an hour they can have it all up and run under windows. Whether this is a good thing or not depends on whether you believe those Ubuntu "people should be able to use free, good software, etc" principles, or whether you're in favour of people just using ubuntu. There's a difference. The first is pretty good, as far as I'm concerned. The second is just software boosterism and party political bunk.

EDITED: My post as written makes it sound like you shouldn't be able to promote Ubuntu. You should definitly be able to, especially if you believe in its merits. The charge of politics was meant for people who think Free (FSF style) software should not be ported to windows, in order to encourage linux adoption. Thats like thinking we should make cars intentionally more dangerous, so people take mass transit.

bruce89
July 16th, 2006, 06:14 PM
4. The industry will use it before the home market. The home market will use it because industry uses it. Targeting the industry is paramount.

I believe this to be true, but another factor is education. Schools get huge Windows discounts for a reason...


... but I'm not convinced windows' installer is that terrible.

It isn't really, but it takes at least twice as long, and asks questions halfway through the install. (could leave the room to let it finish, only to come back and notice it has paused to ask questions).

Not to mention having to install all the hardware drivers and anti-virus stuff, etc. once Windows has installed.


No-one's going to switch to Ubuntu so they can use open office, gnome office, or practically any linux program. In an hour they can have it all up and run under windows. Whether this is a good thing or not depends on whether you believe those Ubuntu "people should be able to use free, good software, etc" principles, or whether you're in favour of people just using ubuntu. There's a difference. The first is pretty good, as far as I'm concerned. The second is just software boosterism and party political bunk.

See my point above.

People can use what software they want on Ubuntu, whether it is free or not.

G Morgan
July 16th, 2006, 06:31 PM
I believe this to be true, but another factor is education. Schools get huge Windows discounts for a reason...


School adoption will follow industry adoption as well though its certainly an area of circular causes. Personally I think schools should look at virtualised Linux for at least their Computing lessons, the use of the development tools is worth a lot given the rubbish my school used to have.

Yossarian
July 16th, 2006, 06:34 PM
Orginally posted by bruce89

See my point above.

People can use what software they want on Ubuntu, whether it is free or not.

Not sure I get you? Which point are you referring to?

Either way, all the major Free software packages are available for both platforms. Before installing mandrake, my first distro, I had a ton of Free software on windows pc. Mostly a matter of money for me. I thought Linux was going to be worse than windows as well as being more work; it was a matter of curiosity for me.

EDIT: If you're talking about the restrictive windows license, being practical, it doesn't prevent me from doing anything I want to do anyways. If any new versions do I will not use those versions, as that would be dishonest.

EDIT2: I'm calling BS on my previous edit. Who am I kidding, I don't read EULAs. If there was restrictions built into the next windows, I'd probably stay away though.

tseliot
July 16th, 2006, 06:35 PM
The applications were crap compared to those available for Linux today. The functionality was crap, and hardware detection was a joke.
Why did you not leave Linux then?

Don't you live in The Land of "Love It or Leave It" :p

Leif
July 16th, 2006, 06:47 PM
I didn't let Linux's limitations stop me. I didn't let the lack of games stop me. I didn't let the lack of support stop me. I didn't let the fact that most Linux software was rough and poorly documented stop me. I persevered, adapted to the system, and bent it to my will.

And I quote (http://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/jokes/monty-python-four-yorkshiremen.html) :

Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah."

:)

Carrots171
July 16th, 2006, 09:07 PM
I've noticed a pattern with this thread and many other threads: Some people claim that Linux isn't "ready for the desktop" or "ready for primetime" because thier hardware didn't work right out of the box or because it doesn't have their favorite app. And then others point out that Windows can be just as difficult to install but it seems easier because it's pre-installed on most PC's, and that there aren't as many commercial apps because Linux is less popular, but it's getting more popular so that's changing. This kind of discussion was going on in previous threads, is going on in this thread, and will continue to go on and on and on.

RAV TUX
July 16th, 2006, 09:10 PM
I've noticed a pattern with this thread and many other threads: Some people claim that Linux isn't "ready for the desktop" or "ready for primetime" because thier hardware didn't work right out of the box or because it doesn't have their favorite app. And others point out that Windows can be just as difficult to install and that Linux isn't as popular so it doesn't have as many apps, but it's getting more popular so that's changing.This kind of discussion was going on in previous threads, is going on in this thread, and will continue to go on and on and on.

please make it stop.

Carrots171
July 16th, 2006, 09:11 PM
please make it stop.

I agree, please make it stop. Unfortunately there will always be trolls who will make it continue.:(

EDIT: Maybe there should be a special forum just for "linux is not ready for desktop" posts or something. And a couple of essays should be stickied there, too.

Stormy Eyes
July 17th, 2006, 02:02 PM
Why did you not leave Linux then?

I couldn't afford a Mac.


Don't you live in The Land of "Love It or Leave It" :p

That's my dig at Americans who think people who disagree with the government should move to France. It's got nothing to do with Linux.

tseliot
July 17th, 2006, 02:12 PM
That's my dig at Americans who think people who disagree with the government should move to France. It's got nothing to do with Linux.
I didn't know that ;)

fuscia
July 17th, 2006, 02:18 PM
nevermind