My wife is driving me nuts. Help me!

[mikodo]

My wife likes to spend our money (my paycheck), in part on lottery tickets. In Canada we have two major lotteries, 6/49 and lotto 7. I am going by memory, from when I figured the odds to winning a long time ago, to be roughly as follows:

6/49 = 1/12,800,040

Lotto 7 = 1/60,000,040 (I don't remember this one as well, and could be significantly off, but it doesn't matter to my question).

Notice that I attached a 40 to the end of both of the odds.

My wife will spend up to $40.00 per lottery, thinking it significantly increases the odds of winning.

Question:

How can I make her understand that 1/12,800,000 odds of winning, instead of 1/12,800,040 odds or

1/60,000,000 odds of winning, instead of 1/60,000,040 odds

does not warrant spending $40.00, instead of just $1.00 each time?

:confused:

Thanks.

[leclerc65]

You can't.:)

[Toz]

Actually, the odds of winning are always the same, for each ticket.

In your example, 1/12,800,040 for each ticket. You just take multiple chances. Playing more than one ticket does not increase your odds.

[CharlesA]

Uh good luck? :p

Also, what leclerc65 said. You can try to explain the probability, but in general, people who play the lotto play it to win, even when the odds are stacked against them.

I think part of it is the mentality of "I'll win this time" even when they don't win.

[mikodo]

Actually, the odds of winning are always the same, for each ticket.

In your example, 1/12,800,040 for each ticket. You just take multiple chances. Playing more than one ticket does not increase your odds.

Actually, each ticket bought, lessons the odds to winning by one.

[CharlesA]

Here's a good explanation of why buying more than one ticket doesn't really help much (unless you buy a ton of them).

http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/56691.html

;)

[Toz]

Actually, each ticket bought, lessons the odds to winning by one.

At the time you buy it, yes. At the time of the draw, each ticket has the same odds.

[Irihapeti]

You may be able to get her to change, but it would mean taking a completely different tack from the one which most people look for – which is probably the ultimate logical argument that will get her to realise that she's wrong. In this case, it seems to be about the odds of winning.

She's doing it for a reason which makes sense to her on some level. Find out what that reason is. To find out, you might have to listen without judging, which usually isn't easy. You could start by asking, "If you win the lottery, what would you get that you currently don't? And what would that mean to you?" and so on.

Once you have that information, you can work out a way of getting that. A way that works well for both of you. Again, it involves being willing to listen without judging.

E.g. for some people, winning the lottery means not being stuck where they are. Fortunately, there are other ways of getting unstuck that don't involve lottery tickets.

I'm not saying it will be easy. It won't be. Is it worth doing? That's up to you to decide.

[lisati]

Uh good luck? :p

:lolflag:

[CharlesA]

E.g. for some people, winning the lottery means not being stuck where they are. Fortunately, there are other ways of getting unstuck that don't involve lottery tickets.

That's a big part of it. For me, it would give me the ability to pay off debts and stuff, but I'll throw a buck or two on the lotto every now and then, but not with any regularity.

The listening without judging part is hard for some people too.

[QIII]

A wife driving her husband nuts is a bit like gravity: a natural and universal law of nature.

If you want her to stop spending money, find something else she does that drives you nuts -- something that does not cost money -- and play that up as though it bothers you more.

By the laws of nature, she will be drawn inexorably to that activity and stop buying lottery tickets.

[mikodo]

Thanks.

We have some smart people here.

;p

[Copper Bezel]

Is it bad that despite the importance and profundity of the comments on communication, understanding people's motivations, and general relationship realities, I really just want to stress what Toz said about probability, and emphasize that the odds really are 320,000:1 instead of 12,800,000:1 with when purchasing 40 tickets instead of 1?

Also applies across multiple lotteries, incidentally. Buying one ticket per day or 365 once a year comes to roughly the same odds, despite being in different drawings, so long as the odds don't change substantially per draw.

Edit: Reading the following post, I realize I think I mean chances / probability, not odds, thus /, not :. Results are much the same, as montag dp notes.

[montag dp]

My wife likes to spend our money (my paycheck), in part on lottery tickets. In Canada we have two major lotteries, 6/49 and lotto 7. I am going by memory, from when I figured the odds to winning a long time ago, to be roughly as follows:

6/49 = 1/12,800,040

Lotto 7 = 1/60,000,040 (I don't remember this one as well, and could be significantly off, but it doesn't matter to my question).

Notice that I attached a 40 to the end of both of the odds.

My wife will spend up to $40.00 per lottery, thinking it significantly increases the odds of winning.

Question:

How can I make her understand that 1/12,800,000 odds of winning, instead of 1/12,800,040 odds or

1/60,000,000 odds of winning, instead of 1/60,000,040 odds

does not warrant spending $40.00, instead of just $1.00 each time?

:confused:

Thanks.Not sure I get your logic. Why wouldn't it be 40/12,800,040, for example?

Taking the thought process to an extreme, if there were originally 12,800,000 tickets sold, and your wife bought 12,800,000 additional tickets, would she not have a 50% chance of winning? That is, if one ticket is a winner.

[deadflowr]

Not sure I get your logic. Why wouldn't it be 40/12,800,040, for example?

Taking the thought process to an extreme, if there were originally 12,800,000 tickets sold, and your wife bought 12,800,000 additional tickets, would she not have a 50% chance of winning? That is, if one ticket is a winner.

Lotteries have nothing to do with number of tickets sold, but with the drawing number combinations.
Sometimes a lottery drawing will sell millions over the odds limit, but a large chunk or several large chunks contain the same 5 or 6 number combinations.

I will give the wife credit, 40 in 12000000 are better odds than 1 in 12000000.
But the odds are only better by what, something like ten-thousandth of a percent. (I'm not doing the math to figure it out.)

Sidenote: I remember hearing about someone buying like 50 tickets all with the same number.
Urban Legend probably, but quite possible in today's world.

[lisati]

Sidenote: I remember hearing about someone buying like 50 tickets all with the same number.
Urban Legend probably, but quite possible in today's world.
:lolflag:

I can only see that of being benefit if the exact numbers come up AND others have purchased similarly numbered tickets. Otherwise it's a waste of money.

[montag dp]

Lotteries have nothing to do with number of tickets sold, but with the drawing number combinations.
Sometimes a lottery drawing will sell millions over the odds limit, but a large chunk or several large chunks contain the same 5 or 6 number combinations.

I will give the wife credit, 40 in 12000000 are better odds than 1 in 12000000.
But the odds are only better by what, something like ten-thousandth of a percent. (I'm not doing the math to figure it out.)

Sidenote: I remember hearing about someone buying like 50 tickets all with the same number.
Urban Legend probably, but quite possible in today's world.Obviously I don't play the lottery enough to know how it works. That's okay, though. ;)

So you're saying the tickets don't have to be unique? I didn't expect that.

[deadflowr]

Obviously I don't play the lottery enough to know how it works. That's okay, though. ;)

So you're saying the tickets don't have to be unique? I didn't expect that.

Normally, you pick the numbers you want, or the machine randomly generates them for you.

Not sure how it works in Canada, but most place like having the possibility of multiple winners, as more winners means smaller pay outs, and actually, more tax collections.

Edit: Anyway, it doesn't help the businesses selling the tickets much if they're limited in the numbers they're able to sell.
They have every right to sell 50 tickets with the same numbers to a single customer, if that is what they and the customer want.
Every ticket generates more revenue.

[whatthefunk]

Show her that $40 per ticket adds up to a lot of money. If she spends $40 per week on lottery, thats $2,080 per year. I dont know how old you and your wife are, but say youre in your 40s and have, hopefully, a good 35 years of life left. $2,080 per year times 35 years is $72,800. By not buying lottery tickets, shes essentially won the lottery.

[HermanAB]

The odds are terrible, but if you don't play, you can't win.
-- Robert Heinlein

[cortman]

Show her that $40 per ticket adds up to a lot of money. If she spends $40 per week on lottery, thats $2,080 per year. I dont know how old you and your wife are, but say youre in your 40s and have, hopefully, a good 35 years of life left. $2,080 per year times 35 years is $72,800. By not buying lottery tickets, shes essentially won the lottery.

^ This. Lotteries are a horrible waste of money.

[ssam]

simple, you don't need to use any maths.

There lotteries are run by companies to make money. Each week people pay more money on tickets than the lottery pays out in prizes. Nothing of any value is being produced (its a zero sum game), so if someone (the lottery) is making money, everyone else must be loosing money (the players). She is paying $40 per week so that some rich lottery owner can buy overpriced cocktails on a beach somewhere.

it that wont stop her, then make sure she buys the tickets on the day of the draw. if you buy them a day in advance then you are more likely to be run over than to win (based on UK odds, but probably similar for canada).

[cprofitt]

Actually, the odds of winning are always the same, for each ticket.

In your example, 1/12,800,040 for each ticket. You just take multiple chances. Playing more than one ticket does not increase your odds.

Umm...

actually, buying more tickets -- assuming they are unique and not duplicates does increase your chances of winning.

if you have a 1 in 1,000,000 chance with one ticket you would have a 2 in 1,000,000 chance with 2... etc...

so in the case of 40 tickets the OP is discussing the odds would be 40 in 12,800,00.

So with 1 ticket you have a .0000078 % chance of wining, but with 40 tickets you have a .0003125% chance of winning.

[cprofitt]

At the time you buy it, yes. At the time of the draw, each ticket has the same odds.

No,... that is not true in most lottery games that pick 6 numbers from a pool.

Yes, if it is a set of tickets and one winner is chosen from the potential pool.

[Toz]

Umm...

actually, buying more tickets -- assuming they are unique and not duplicates does increase your chances of winning.

if you have a 1 in 1,000,000 chance with one ticket you would have a 2 in 1,000,000 chance with 2... etc...
Perhaps the rules of the lottery should be explained so that we are all talking about the same thing and my comments are accurate. In the case of Canada's Lotto 649, you get to choose 6 numbers out of 1-49. To win the grand prize, you must get all 6 numbers correct. There are smaller prizes for other combinations (i.e. 5 numbers, 4 numbers, etc. with the odds of winning adjusted accordingly). There are no guaranteed winners and the same set of numbers can potentially be choosen by multiple entrants (in which case the prize money is split equally).

In this case, I disagree. Each ticket has the same odds. You are mearly playing the game twice. Your odds that any one ticket is the winning ticket are exactly the same. Having two tickets does not change the odds for any of the tickets.

[mikodo]

Umm...

actually, buying more tickets -- assuming they are unique and not duplicates does increase your chances of winning.

if you have a 1 in 1,000,000 chance with one ticket you would have a 2 in 1,000,000 chance with 2... etc...

so in the case of 40 tickets the OP is discussing the odds would be 40 in 12,800,00.

So with 1 ticket you have a .0000078 % chance of wining, but with 40 tickets you have a .0003125% chance of winning.

I had figured it wrong and when you put in on paper, I see my error.


1. I should have mentioned in the OP, that each set of numbers she plays are different when she plays. I thought that would be obvious, but maybe not.

2. You missed a 0 in your copying of my 12,800,000, so the figures are:

3. With 1 ticket you have a .000000078 % chance of winning, which of course is a 1 in 12,800,000 odds to win.

4. With 40 tickets you have a .000003125% chance of winning, which by the way comes to a 1 in 320,000 odds to win, as Copper Bezel said in post # 13.


Thanks, for the math lesson and advice everyone.

:)

[agillator]

On the other hand, I figure I have won a dollar a week on the lottery here - I don't play. That adds up to a heck of a lot over time, you know. Don't know if that helps your problem, but can she tell you how much she has won over time? P.S. (added): On the other hand perhaps your should start playing by not playing. How long would it take your 'winnings' to exceed hers? If her lack of winnings cost her an evening out or something that you could otherwise have afforded . . . .

[mikodo]

That's a good point agillator. One that is lost on her though.

P.S. to respond to yours: As someone else pointed out, she continues to hope to win against nearly all hope.

;p

[agillator]

Mikodo, you started me thinking and that is really dangerous! First, is it really worth arguing about? You do things that irritate her, you know. On the other hand, perhaps you should stop bugging her about it, it probably just makes her set her feet more firmly on that path. Try another approach, sort of what I alluded to earlier. Let her know (if you can afford it, of course) that you are going to start playing the lottery, too. As I suggested earlier, play by not playing, but keep track of it. 'Play' the same amount she does every week. Then every week openly and clearly take your 'winnings' and do something you want to do, like a night out with the boys, a couple of pool games, whatever. If it is something she doesn't care for, what can she say? It is your lottery winnings. And this means it is costing her, too. Of course if she ever wins you may be in big trouble. But seriously, if you can find any child psychology books by Dreikers, especially 'Children, the Challenge', it might help you. His approach works on adults also. WARNING: It works on husbands AND wives! The book is long out of print but I think is still available if you look for it. DISCLAIMER: Not responsible for results: good, bad or indifferent. I have no objection to gambling as long as it is with recreation money or gambling winnings only. I do believe, however, that lotteries are nothing more than legalized theft.

[mikodo]

@ agillator (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=1420584&)

I worked 16 hours today, and have been up for 21. I'll read your suggestions tomorrow or soon. Right now, all I want to do is go to bed. I would pretty much dismiss doing anything else right now. That is not fair to do with your well written suggestion(s), without more reflection. I will consider it later.

Thanks.

;p

[koenn]

Show her that $40 per ticket adds up to a lot of money. If she spends $40 per week on lottery, thats $2,080 per year. I dont know how old you and your wife are, but say youre in your 40s and have, hopefully, a good 35 years of life left. $2,080 per year times 35 years is $72,800. By not buying lottery tickets, shes essentially won the lottery.

Using logic to make her change her mind ? He's got a better chance at winning the lottery than for that to work.

[agillator]

koenn, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Logic is of no use here. Mikodo either needs to decide it is not worth the energy and effort to do anything and there may be nothing to do anyway, or he needs to use some very serious psychology. She needs to decide to stop playing the lottery and she is not going to decide that by his arguing or discussing or using logic. The reason I mentioned Dreikers to him is his idea of 'logical consequences' seems to work for all ages in most any situation.

[agillator]

By the way, mikodo, if you think my idea is at least worth checking out, I did check Amazon and the book is available. http://www.amazon.com/Children-Challenge-Improving-Parent-Child-Relations-Intelligent/dp/0452266556. Just be careful about leaving it lying around. She may pick it up and use it's ideas on you, too! Seriously, although it is a book about raising children, it works equally well for adults. I've seen it.

[Sam Mills]

On the other hand, I figure I have won a dollar a week on the lottery here - I don't play.
Going by that logic, I must be rich! That System76 laptop I didn't buy for $800, I must have won that $800. That $10,000 car I didn't buy, is $10,000 I've won! Thanks, now I'm going to not go out and not celebrate with all of the money I didn't spend! ;)

[Copper Bezel]

The comparison case is still valid, though. mikodo is winning $40 more per lottery than his wife is. That could be compared over any arbitrary length of time.

[Erik1984]

That $40/month is a mighty number. Show her how many shoes she could've bought with that $40 by not participating in the lottery for 10 years.

[nothingspecial]

My wife buys shoes and jewellery and stuff I don't see any value in, I buy records and gadgets and stuff that she can't see the value in. So long as the lottery ticket purchases are not more than you can afford, let her have some fun :)

[3rdalbum]

How about telling her that she's allowed to spend $10 of your money per week on the lottery, but she's allowed to spend $30 per week of her own money, on the lottery.

The only way she can spend $40 per week on the lottery is by getting a job - she she'll be bringing in more than $40 a week if she got a part-time job. Win!

[Irihapeti]

Sometimes it's about the consequences. If the consequences of not playing the lottery are more desirable (to her) than playing it, she'll stop playing.

[Sef]

Could she be addicted to buying lottery tickets?