PDA

View Full Version : How large is Linux compared to Windows?



AmpersUK
May 15th, 2013, 09:56 AM
Taking into account India and China, and the rest of the third world, what proportion of the world uses Linux in general and Ubuntu in particular. And, would it be fair to include the huge proportion of people in China who use pirate copies of Windows? I think we should include them as Linux users as, if they were made to pay for Windows, most of them could well move over to a legitimately free operating system.

What do the team think?

Ampers

Lars Noodén
May 15th, 2013, 10:19 AM
Smartphones and tablets are mostly Linux, despite the initial popularity of iPhones and such. If you include both in your calculations, along with servers and supercomputers, then Windows is down to about 20% (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/13/windows_market_share_just_20percent/) with most of the rest being some form of Linux, mostly Android/Linux. That 20% will only get smaller as the chromebooks increase in popularity. Windows on the smartphone has low single-digit market share and appears to be decreasing.

evilsoup
May 15th, 2013, 03:17 PM
And, would it be fair to include the huge proportion of people in China who use pirate copies of Windows? I think we should include them as Linux users as, if they were made to pay for Windows, most of them could well move over to a legitimately free operating system.

I don't think that would be fair at all. They're using Windows, ergo they are Windows users.

Lars, I know you're technically correct (the best kind of correct) in that Android uses the Linux kernel, but when people say 'Linux' they mostly mean 'GNU/Linux', and I think that Android is different enough not to count (please do correct me if I'm wrong, though - I'm a little fuzzy on this stuff).

Lars Noodén
May 15th, 2013, 04:33 PM
@evilsoup: There's a recognition even in the non-technical communities that it is Linux that powers Android:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2013/05/13/what-are-the-major-changes-that-android-made-to-the-linux-kernel/

However, there is also an awareness that the Linux that powers your servers and supercomputers is not quite the same as the Linux that runs your phone, your car's engine or your TV.

layers
May 15th, 2013, 05:23 PM
... people in China who use pirate copies of Windows? ...

because people in Europe and Americas never use pirated software... :---)

Lars Noodén
May 15th, 2013, 05:35 PM
because people in Europe and Americas never use pirated software... :---)

Here are two relevant quotes for that.


"It's easier for our software to compete with Linux when there's piracy than when there's not,"
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/07/23/100134488/


"As long as they are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade."
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1023-212942.html

Anyway, that race is soon over. Linux is on close to 80% of devices if you start counting smartphones, tablets, TVs, car motors, and other embedded devices. It's also dominant in the server / Internet space and basically owns the supercomputing market.

It's just here on the desktop that there is even any struggle going on. And the chromebooks will help with that. All Red Hat or Canonical needs is one single major OEM to offer and promote Linux and it is game over.

pqwoerituytrueiwoq
May 15th, 2013, 05:53 PM
because people in Europe and Americas never use pirated software... :---)
Well i would guess at least 24% of china computers are running pirated copies of XP, based on this (http://www.ie6countdown.com/) you dont do updates on a pirated copy of windows to my knowledge
i realize part of that 24% is not pirated but how many pirated ones there are using NON-IE browsers which is why i say at least

iamkuriouspurpleoranj
May 15th, 2013, 08:13 PM
Large enough to make Steve Ballmer lose his hair.

coldraven
May 15th, 2013, 09:22 PM
you dont do updates on a pirated copy of windows to my knowledge
If you never let "Windows Genuine Advantage" onto your dodgy XP you will still get security updates but not updates to Office etc.
...or so I'm told! :)

Paqman
May 15th, 2013, 11:14 PM
Taking into account India and China, and the rest of the third world, what proportion of the world uses Linux in general

Assuming you're talking about desktop Linux (ie: not Android or servers) about 1% is the best estimate. It's been slowly edging up for a while, some counts now put it more like 2%.


and Ubuntu in particular.

Again, difficult to know for sure. Probably around 50% of all Linux users would be a reasonable estimate IMO.


And, would it be fair to include the huge proportion of people in China who use pirate copies of Windows?

Yes, they've chosen to use Windows over Linux, so they should be counted as Windows users. Nothing is stopping them installing Linux, except the fact they either don't know about it or don't want to. Either way the one thing they aren't is Linux users.

mike acker
May 16th, 2013, 12:30 AM
something like 39% of windows desktops are still running XP. many of these will be stuck at XP because they have apps that won't run on 7 or that require expensive updates to move to 7. Didn't Torvalds say something about not doing this to people ? as XP slips into a non-supported status system managers will have to ask themselves some hard questions . how this washes out we'll find out during the next few years . but the gang from Redmond will have a hard time convincing system managers that they have recognized the error of their ways and are going to focus on maintaining support for business apps over time.

the win8 debauch will have contributed nothing to managers confidence . just as it seemed the security problem might have been addressed to at least a workable level we are hit with this completely alien GUI

i switched to Ubuntu 12.04 LTS about 7 months ago . i'll never go back .

one of the things that holds up the deployment of Ubuntu is the old "I have to run program X"

my advice is simple: go ahead an run it on windows if you must but keep windows computers isolated inside an intranet. this is difficult to do safely due to executable documents. The RSA hack for example was accomplished via an infected flash objected loaded in cell A1 of a XLS spreadsheet . a system that is susceptible of this type of attack will require careful use limits. e.g. strip office apps (communicators) off any computer that has to be retained in order to run an old -- "legacy" app.

i think a huge obstacle is breaking down even now,-- as LibreOffice has recently made some significant progress in compatibility .

PJs Ronin
May 16th, 2013, 07:08 AM
Read an article yesterday that mentioned some amazing numbers (I'll paraphrase as I can't remember the site I was on) for Windows systems in the business environment. Something like 60% on XP, 30% on W7 and a trickle on Vista and/or W8. The main thing I got from the discussion was that support for XP ends 2014 and that is going to force companies to start firming up migration strategies. Vista is definitely not considered a viable option for migration and W8 as it currently stands has 'user acceptance' issues; I've heard the start menu is making a re-appearance in W8.1 that may address this.

For my money, I think Ubuntu/Linux with OO or Libre is sitting pretty. I've heard much about the problems of transferring from a MS Office environment to a Libre/OO environment but I just can't see the difficulty. I also remember reading once that the vast majority of MS Office users (and I guess the same would apply to Libre/OO also) only use basic functionality and all three suites have almost identical baseline functionality.

As an aside (somewhat), the Aussie government is holding parliamentary hearings into why software is so much more expensive here compared to the USA and Europe. Naturally enough, Microsoft, Google, Oracle, Apple et al all have very good reasons as to why this is so... reasons that can be condensed down to "because we can". Maybe it's time government thought about changing all government computers to Linux and open products such as Libre. The demise of XP/XP-Pro in 2014 may well be a catalyst.

My 2c... and apologies for the generalizations.

HermanAB
May 16th, 2013, 07:14 AM
Everybody uses Linux. They may not be aware that they do though. It is everywhere: TVs, routers, microwave ovens, washing machines, cell phones, cars, aircraft, satellites...

MS sells about 100 million Windows licenses per quarter (or at least, they used to, pre Win8, now it is much less).

Linux devices are manufactured at a rate of about 100 million per month.

You do the math about what a 5 year device lifetime projection looks like.

mastablasta
May 16th, 2013, 08:51 AM
still the desktop market (particulary business desktop) remain elusive for linux .....

the ridiculous part here is that i just found out that the CAD programme we use has a linux verison. so all programmes i use + this CAD have good linux alternative (Libre office is good enough for what we do) or even linux port. and we are not using it because?!?!?!? well they say they test it every once in a while but so far they haven't found it on par with windows in applications we use (that's a strange thing to say, i wonder how they test it...).

i mean most employees use office (spreadsheet and word) and ERP which has a linux port anyway and Outlook (Thunderbird is very good alternative and IMO is better than outlook).

Paqman
May 16th, 2013, 09:08 AM
MS sells about 100 million Windows licenses per quarter (or at least, they used to, pre Win8, now it is much less).

Linux devices are manufactured at a rate of about 100 million per month.

You do the math about what a 5 year device lifetime projection looks like.

That's comparing apples and oranges. The vast majority of those Linux devices will be embedded systems, servers and mobile devices, not desktops. On the desktop Windows is not under any threat at the moment (or at least, not from desktop Linux...)

Koori23
May 17th, 2013, 01:16 AM
Linux was originally developed as a free operating system for Intel x86-based personal computers. It has since been ported to more computer hardware platforms than any other operating system. It is a leading operating system on servers and other big iron systems such as mainframe computers and supercomputers:[16][17][18][19] more than 90% of today's 500 fastest supercomputers run some variant of Linux,[20] including the 10 fastest.[21] Linux also runs on embedded systems (devices where the operating system is typically built into the firmware and highly tailored to the system) such as mobile phones, tablet computers, network routers, building automation controls, televisions[22][23] and video game consoles; the Android system in wide use on mobile devices is built on the Linux kernel.

From Wikipedia

Windows and OSX control somewhere between 95% to 98% of the desktop market I've read on Forbes, sources vary on this number as the method of collection is a bit sketchy across the board. They require registration to use the OS so, I think that they could count them pretty easily.

Linux (Pretty much all Distros that I've heard about) don't require registration and in order to "count" how many are out there I think it would be neat if Google came up with a static that would collect what build version hits google.com or something like that.

Linux owns the enterprise market though as well as the device market (excluding tablets).

chmegr
May 18th, 2013, 12:02 AM
amazing!

Paqman
May 18th, 2013, 07:20 AM
I think it would be neat if Google came up with a static that would collect what build version hits google.com or something like that.


Wikimedia do just that:

http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportOperatingSystems.htm

Their sites are general enough that I think it's probably the best thing to a reliable count that I've seen.