species or race?

[t0p]

Just starting planning out My Great SF Novel. It's gonna have lotsa different aliens in it, and I'm looking for an inoffensive way to write about them. Are the Blurghs a violent alien species or race? Are the Martians an elusive race or species?

I don't want to be offensive. I do want to be as scientific accurate (What?! In a SF novel you wanna be accurate? Don't quit the day job, muppet!). So: species or race?

[deadflowr]

Have both.

Make a species, and then sub sections of various races.

[lisati]

I reckon both. There's a certain amount of overlap between the meaning of the words. I'd suggest that "race" be used mainly in a casual discussion, and "species" when you want to be a bit more analytical.

[F.G.]

well...
i think you need both, to satisfy Carolus Linnaeus' binominal nomenclature and
convention. i guese maybe that's the reason..

[Copper Bezel]

F.G., biological nomenclature uses genus, then species (and then subspecies if applicable.) "Race" is a cultural rather than a biological concept - there are no human subspecies, and if there were, they wouldn't line up with the existing racial categories we have, largely because most of the genetic variation within Homo sapiens actually happens within what we refer to as the African race (all the other races are a small subset of that variation.)

An alien life form won't even be in the same domain of life (prokaryotae, that is, life on earth that is not not bacteria or archea) as we are. With enough knowledge of the alien ecosystem and assuming that its descent followed a similar pattern to life on Earth (particularly speciation,) then yeah, you could create a phylogenitic tree and give an alien life form a genus and species. But we often say "the human race" to mean the human species as a whole, and there would be nothing wrong with doing the same for some extraterrestrial sophont.

[PJs Ronin]

Use both. It appears to me that 'race' applies if the foreigners are nasty, but predictable, whereas 'species' indicates something that wants to rip your head off and crap down your throat.

[montag dp]

Reading those last two replies in order was funny.

Anyway, I'd say species is the more accurate term, but you could really use either. I don't think either term would be considered offensive.

[F.G.]

Thanks for the detailed and interesting response CopperBezel, i stand corrected and more informed about these things.

So, i guess we're talking about aliens? (i suppose i should have read the question). I've got to say, that i do concur with PJsRonin's account of this terminology usage, in my experience with alien life-forms, it always seems to be that way around.
However we have not even mentioned flora or fauna in this context. Would fauna encapsulate both race and species? is that how it works? and more importantly, how would one refer to a Babel fish? i'm not sure if species or race are the appropriate terms.

edit: so, CopperBezel, should we take it that you are of the opinion that neither is technically correct, but both can be can be considered correct in colloquially usage?

[pfeiffep]

For scientific accuracy use genus and species - race in NOT a scientific term

[Paqman]

However we have not even mentioned flora or fauna in this context. Would fauna encapsulate both race and species?

Yes, fauna is an imprecise term, but generally meant to include all animal life in an environment, while flora includes all plant life. The division of all life into two kingdoms is an old obsolete concept, we recognise far more than that now, but the term still has some use in describing the complex life within an particular area.

[Copper Bezel]

edit: so, CopperBezel, should we take it that you are of the opinion that neither is technically correct, but both can be can be considered correct in colloquially usage?
It depends on how you mean "technically." In specific contexts, each one would seem to be "correct." In the case of "race," it'd be important to be clear that the word is being used in its "less technical" definition, but that doesn't actually make it any less correct. "Species", I think, is correct in any case - you could say that you'd discovered a "new species" without knowing its classification, and this doesn't seem like a big jump from that. So if the question is between "colloquial" (or even just "everyday") and "scientific," then yeah, "species" is a more technical term, but that means that it's more correct in technical contexts, not that it's inherently more correct.

And like PJs Ronin pointed out, it's probably just as important to consider the connotations that sci-fi readers are going to read into each.

[forrestcupp]

I would say it would be species. Races are groups that are within one species. It is doubtful that all of the various aliens would be homo sapiens, or even one other species scattered around the galaxy. I'm sure the various types of aliens originating from different planets would have different DNA makeups. So I would say they should be species and not races.

But I agree with some that you could have different races within one alien species. So I guess I agree that you could use both.

[whatthefunk]

The word "race" is nonsense. Where does the black "race" start and the white "race" begin? Where exactly on the scale do Asians become Asians? If a hild has one grandparent who is white, one who is black, one who is Asian, and one who is Native American, what race are they exactly? Race is highly subjective at best and belongs in the nineteenth century.

Aliens are species. Unless you want to dive head first into complicated Alien racial issues and possible civil rights movements, Id leave race out of it all together. Instead, you could have different classes or social positions, something much easier to define and less controversial.

[Copper Bezel]

Maybe, but again, he's not using race to mean the individual ethnic lineages within the species, but referring to the species as a whole as a "race," in the same way that the human species can be referred to as a "race." Obviously, that's not what the term originally meant, but we've developed that meaning, and it's worth considering. It also flows naturally from referring to groups in fantasy settings, like dwarves and elves and things, as "races."

[forrestcupp]

The word "race" is nonsense. Where does the black "race" start and the white "race" begin? Where exactly on the scale do Asians become Asians? If a hild has one grandparent who is white, one who is black, one who is Asian, and one who is Native American, what race are they exactly? Race is highly subjective at best and belongs in the nineteenth century.

"Race" doesn't have to be offensive. Some people are actually proud of their heritage. I've known plenty of black people, Asians, and Native Americans who are proud of their heritage, and they don't want to just be melded into one common, cookie cutter man. People are different. That doesn't mean we hate each other or aren't allowed to mate with people who are different. But there is nothing wrong with celebrating differences in a non-arrogant way.

[whatthefunk]

"Race" doesn't have to be offensive. Some people are actually proud of their heritage. I've known plenty of black people, Asians, and Native Americans who are proud of their heritage, and they don't want to just be melded into one common, cookie cutter man. People are different. That doesn't mean we hate each other or aren't allowed to mate with people who are different. But there is nothing wrong with celebrating differences in a non-arrogant way.

Herritage and race are totally different. Two people of different heritages can be of the same race. Nazis and skin heads are proud of their race. Normal people are proud of their heritage.

[Moose]

Do neither. Call them flavours. ;)

[forrestcupp]

Herritage and race are totally different. Two people of different heritages can be of the same race. Nazis and skin heads are proud of their race. Normal people are proud of their heritage.

That's just one example of people who are screwed up with their idea of what race means. Just because Nazis and skinheads have a twisted view of what race means doesn't mean it has to be offensive. That's almost like thinking all postal workers kill people because one went "postal" once.

You're mistaking race for meaning species. Of course it's wrong to look at people who are different as being a different species. Here's one of Webster's definitions of race:

3. c : a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits

[QIII]

If humans were a domestic animal, some say we'd be considered inbred. Very low genetic diversity despite our (very) minor morphological differences.

[lisati]

Herritage and race are totally different. Two people of different heritages can be of the same race. Nazis and skin heads are proud of their race. Normal people are proud of their heritage.

A sizeable number of my in-laws' extended family are proud of their Samoan heritage, to the point of calling themselves Samoan, even though many haven't actually lived in (or visited) Samoa. It's tempting at times to let loose with a loud "Bah, Humbug!" - first and foremost, they're all people. :D

[whatthefunk]

That's just one example of people who are screwed up with their idea of what race means. Just because Nazis and skinheads have a twisted view of what race means doesn't mean it has to be offensive. That's almost like thinking all postal workers kill people because one went "postal" once.

You're mistaking race for meaning species. Of course it's wrong to look at people who are different as being a different species. Here's one of Webster's definitions of race:

3. c : a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits

Youve just proved my point for me, thanks. Heritage is cultural. Race is physical. Nazis and skinheads are proud only because they are white. Other people are proud not because of the physical features of their people, but because of other cultural reasons. This is why race is such a ridiculous word.

[forrestcupp]

Youve just proved my point for me, thanks. Heritage is cultural. Race is physical. Nazis and skinheads are proud only because they are white. Other people are proud not because of the physical features of their people, but because of other cultural reasons. This is why race is such a ridiculous word.

Like I said before. I've known plenty of black people who were proud of being black, plenty of Native Americans who were proud of being Native American, and plenty of Asians who were proud of what they look like. Sure, a lot of it is cultural, but that's not all there is to it. If you're offended by what you look like, then I'm sorry for you.

Like Lisati said, we're all people. But thank God we're not all cookie cutter people. I'm glad for the differences. If someone starts calling people "breeds", that's a different story. ;)

[DoubleClicker]

The terms "race" and "species" belong to different scientific disciplines. "Species" is a term in biology, whereas "race" is a term in anthropology. Context needs to dictate the correct terminology.

[mips]

Who you gonna offend? E.T.?

[Faolan84]

Both, species for the types as a whole and race as distinct or identifiable group within the species based on similar biological criteria based on social perceptions and constructs. I don't really see why you should omit the terms and concepts since in an intergalactic world there would most certainly be species out there like ourselves that embrace such concepts. In the vastness of space there is indeed no limit to the vastness of stupidity and misunderstanding that would certainly make some some interesting epic drama.

I don't see any species of any number or intelligence to be completely homogeneous in their culture, attitudes, and opinions and thus race is still something that is sadly still significant just as is creed, ethnicity, class, etc. Just an observation one should note if they truly want to their fictional world to have some depth of reality to it.

[georgelappies]

I don't see any species of any number or intelligence to be completely homogeneous in their culture, attitudes, and opinions...

You haven't met the Borg as yet I presume ;)

[dejavue]

From Wikipedia:

In biology, races are distinct populations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populations) within the same species (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species) and does not apply to genetic differences but phenotype (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenotype).


Yes, it is heavily (negatively) connotated, but race is actually a scientific concept (without ascribing inherent value or non-value).
If you are writing a sci-fi novel, maybe the whole discourse about race has evolved to a more transcendental point - so that the word could be used again ;)

Alas, I don't want to alter your content ;)

[kurt18947]

Like I said before. I've known plenty of black people who were proud of being black, plenty of Native Americans who were proud of being Native American, and plenty of Asians who were proud of what they look like. Sure, a lot of it is cultural, but that's not all there is to it. If you're offended by what you look like, then I'm sorry for you.

Like Lisati said, we're all people. But thank God we're not all cookie cutter people. I'm glad for the differences. If someone starts calling people "breeds", that's a different story. ;)

But the O.P. is talking about other life forms, not Homo Sapiens. To uneducated me, a "breed" seems very similar to "race". For instance, domestic cats are all members of the Felis Catus species. There are considerable differences in appearance and 'personality' within that genus and species but all are recognizable as Felis Catus. There are certain characteristics that qualify an individual as belonging to a breed or race. There are also a good many hybrids.