Windows 8: Microsoft's New Coke moment

[Linuxratty]

What bothers me most is that pie chart. So there really are that few Linux users!?:confused:

Everyone knows that New Coke was a total disaster for Coca-Cola. Except, of course, that isn't actually what happened. Yes, New Coke, like Windows 8 for Microsoft, was a total market failure, but that wasn't the end of the Coca-Cola story, and Windows 8 may not be the end of Microsoft's Windows tale.
netapps-os-May 2013 540x263
http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-microsofts-new-coke-moment-7000014779/

[mreq]

seems so :( I thought Linux was on a rise...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems) via http://www.netmarketshare.com/

[Hodevah]

Nonsense. YOu have to understand that there are many parties that are biased in favor of presenting their own version of market shares, present biased reports as a consequence of said baised views on market shares, and are even at times paid to present biased presentations of said market shares. The link on Wikipedia I would surmise is incorrect. It is well known that Wikipedia is unreliable for a source of information. For example, it is common knowledge that university and college students do not present Wikipedia as a source of information. For students, they need to user peer-reviewed sources of information when they are writing a scholarly paper. Wikipedia is not a peer-reviewed source.
Secondly, Wikipedia is also known to have infighting amongst it's editors. Editorial vandalism is a plague that Wikipedia suffers from. Hence you can understand the unreliability of Wikipedia.
The other source from zdnet, I would surmise is also unreliable. The editor himself probably uses Windows, prefers to use it, and hence presents a biased view (his own) on the market share of Linux. He probably has never even heard of Ubuntu, Fedora, Arch, and the like. He probably has not even heard of Distrowatch.com.
I doubt that this is an accurate presentation.
Windows, for sure owns a large market share. Just about every computer, laptop, and the like has got Windows. So for sure it has a large market share. But I doubt that it has a market share as large as any of these articles make it out to be.
Speaking for myself only. I got rid of Windows. And damn glad too!

[Bean7]

Win 8 is not good at all, it's maybe fun, fresh but it's complicated to used

[AllRadioisDead]

Win 8 is not good at all, it's maybe fun, fresh but it's complicated to used
It's not any harder to use than any previous version of Windows.

If anything, I find it easier with more powerful search and file management.

[prodigy_]

Actually there's no reliable way to measure a desktop OS usage share but ZDNet guys don't know that. ZDNet/PCMag staff is just a bunch of the most incompetent people among those who think they're related to IT in some way. I usually read their articles when I feel the need for a good laugh.

[Buntu Bunny]

Win 8 is not good at all, it's maybe fun, fresh but it's complicated to used


It's not any harder to use than any previous version of Windows.

Disagree. Everything after XP was downhill.

[mastablasta]

well PC desktop market share of windows is big. linux is small. but if you add smartphones, tablets, servers, TV to this then the picture changes for sure.

i read PC market is in steady decline.

so having high a market share in cassete players is not something impressive these days. :-)

[madjr]

Actually there's no reliable way to measure a desktop OS usage share but ZDNet guys don't know that. ZDNet/PCMag staff is just a bunch of the most incompetent people among those who think they're related to IT in some way. I usually read their articles when I feel the need for a good laugh.

still they have more influence than you think and many companies, devs and individuals base many times their decisions on articles like that.

Also sometimes they're not that far off from what is called the "market sentiment".

[pqwoerituytrueiwoq]

Disagree. Everything after XP was downhill.not in performance, i assume you mean every version of windows after xp and not every OS release, cause xubuntu 13.04 is pretty nice, so was ubuntu 10.04 (technically is till tomorrow but...)

[Redalien0304]

Sorry i wont touch Win 8 machine il remove Win 8 1st. Win 7 was my last Microsoft OS. I am Ubuntu / Linux all the way now. i think the Zdnet Numbers are somewhat misleading

[SeijiSensei]

It is simply impossible to measure the market share of Linux in any meaningful way. Most OS figures are based on shipments of pre-configured systems with commercial operating systems so all those people who buy a PC with Windows on it then install Linux are counted as Windows purchasers. The server market has similar problems, though machines with pre-installed Linux are more common there. Still people like me buy bare-iron servers and install Linux ourselves. I'm sure I'm not alone in this practice.

Some measures use data from website logs. Web browsers typically announce themselves with information about the browser and the OS on which it is running. Linux typically does better in these measures, but how well it performs depends on the sample of sites chosen for measurement.

I would still be suspicious of any figure for Linux north of five percent of all installed operating systems. Until people can walk into a store and buy a pre-configured Linux PC with full customer support, Linux usage is inevitably restricted to a relatively small group of hardy souls willing to muck around with their computers and professionals running Linux in server rooms.

The BBC have a good summary (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22439496) of the past day's media reactions to the hints that MS will be revamping Windows 8.

[iamkuriouspurpleoranj]

Statistics schmistics. Practically everyone I meet now is a Linux user. And these are charming, comfortably-off people with rich social lives.

A population roughly the same as that of Spain uses Linux worldwide. That might not be that many people on a global level but I doubt you'll ever feel alone in Spain.

[JonPaul]

What bothers me most is that pie chart. So there really are that few Linux users!?:confused:

Quality rather than quantity.....

Having said that Linux with its dozens of distros/desktops is its own worst enemy (and I say that as an enthusiast who would never go back to windows)

Some would argue of course that this is its greatest strength:tongue:

[Jonor]

The pie chart prompts me to think where it likely is an accurate reflection of usage - top three floors at Redmond head office ?

[mr john]

Those figures are probablty quite close. Of course there is a margin of error, but that margin is small. I think some people here need to get out into the real world and see for themselves. PS. with windows 8 all you need to do is install classic shell and you're good to go. It's actually a little bit quicker on most of the machines I've tried it on compared to Windows 7.

Ubuntu 13.04 is pretty good too. Definitely alot snappier than previous unity releases, but the average user isn't going to just jump into something they arent familiar with when they aren't even that confident with what they are familier with. People will get Windows 8 because of the OEM's, and many of them will choose to downgrade or look for a way to get it like the windows they already know.

[goldshirt9]

Every other Windows OS is questionable.
Use & on my desktop and love it.Would say 8 is a step too far in how it looks. I dont want a desktop touchpad, some people do though.
Maybe the tried too hard to force it on the average person.A step too far too fast ?

[iamkuriouspurpleoranj]

^Well, I trust more in my own real life experiences than in a ZDNet pie chart, not that I believe they have underestimated our size.

The fact of the matter is that the Linux community is small by comparison. Just like Poland is small in comparison with Russia. The real question is: are we a viable community? I believe so and that's all that matters. Poland is still viable a country. Russia is just bigger, that's all.

2%. Yes and so what? In Linux, we have some important stakeholders but we have no shareholders. So what is the concern? Are we worried about declining profits? "Still 2% after all these years! What do we tell the shareholders?" "What shareholders?" "Oh, don't say that. You'll hurt their feelings."

Windows is OK. If you enjoy it, use it. Their metro flatstudio-rip-off design is pretty. However, the whole experience, as with the shopping lens in Ubuntu, feels physically superficial and not fully integrated, if that makes sense. I don't find anything interesting to do in Windows but good luck to you if you do.

As a left-handed person in a right-handed world, I find the statistic that probably 90%+ home computer users use Windows just that: a statistic.

[forrestcupp]

I have a feeling that Microsoft is a lot more stubborn than Coke was. Not only will they not change back, but they'll do their best to bully everyone into accepting their change.


It is simply impossible to measure the market share of Linux in any meaningful way. Most OS figures are based on shipments of pre-configured systems with commercial operating systems so all those people who buy a PC with Windows on it then install Linux are counted as Windows purchasers. The server market has similar problems, though machines with pre-installed Linux are more common there. Still people like me buy bare-iron servers and install Linux ourselves. I'm sure I'm not alone in this practice.You're right. It's impossible to get an accurate measurement. They can't measure people who build their own computers and install Linux. Also, when someone buys a PC with Windows preinstalled and they wipe it and install Linux, the numbers go toward Windows and not Linux. Still, I'm sure the numbers aren't extremely far off. The fact is, most people just buy computers and use them. Most people are never going to install Linux on their computers because all they care about is checking Facebook and emails, and the operating system is just not something they care about going to that trouble over. Heck, most people don't even know what an operating system is.


Every other Windows OS is questionable.
Use & on my desktop and love it.Would say 8 is a step too far in how it looks. I dont want a desktop touchpad, some people do though.
Maybe the tried too hard to force it on the average person.A step too far too fast ?I think you hit the nail on the head there. They're just ahead of the game a generation. If they would have eased into it this gen, I think they could have gotten away with this in the next version of Windows.

[Umbra Diaboli]

I think right now we are at an intermediate point were no one is buying new hardware.

I presume we may see Linux's market share increase in a year as people are forced to buy new machines, and as support for games becomes stronger.

[nec207]

I'm not sure what your question is:mad:

Are you saying there is less Linux user now than before windows 8? You would think it would be the other way around.

[|{urse]

Every customer I have installed Windows 8 for has come right back in within a few weeks wanting 7 or even xp instead.

[forrestcupp]

I think right now we are at an intermediate point were no one is buying new hardware.

I presume we may see Linux's market share increase in a year as people are forced to buy new machines, and as support for games becomes stronger.I think you're right, but it's going to be a problem for Linux. When people come back to buy hardware, they're going to be buying a lot more hybrid Win8 tablets, and nobody is going to be installing Linux on those. It's not going to be long before those hybrids, like surface, are going to be the norm. It's the best of both worlds. They're still pretty darned expensive, though.


Every customer I have installed Windows 8 for has come right back in within a few weeks wanting 7 or even xp instead.You should have installed a 3rd party Start menu that bypasses Metro. If you do that, Win8 really is a superior OS to Win7 and definitely XP.

[ikt]

The pie chart prompts me to think where it likely is an accurate reflection of usage - top three floors at Redmond head office ?

I don't see what's wrong with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Web_clients

Linux shows green arrows after previously being red arrows for the last several months, we haven't gained anything.

http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-monthly-201303-201303-bar

Linux is 'other'... gg

[mips]

You should have installed a 3rd party Start menu that bypasses Metro. If you do that, Win8 really is a superior OS to Win7 and definitely XP.

+1

But windows 8.1 will take care of that when it's released. I hope they don't charge people for it.

[monkeybrain2012]

I think you're right, but it's going to be a problem for Linux. When people come back to buy hardware, they're going to be buying a lot more hybrid Win8 tablets, and nobody is going to be installing Linux on those. It's not going to be long before those hybrids, like surface, are going to be the norm. It's the best of both worlds. They're still pretty darned expensive, though.


The sale of surface has not been stellar. I don't know what do you base your prediction on.


Win8 really is a superior OS to Win7 and definitely XP.

As in more locked down and more DRM?

[monkeybrain2012]

But windows 8.1 will take care of that when it's released. I hope they don't charge people for it.

I sure hope they do. It is good whenever MS drives people away, not necessarily to Linux, but it is still good in breaking its monopoly.

[AllRadioisDead]

The sale of surface has not been stellar. I don't know what do you base your prediction on.




In my opinion, I don't think Microsoft ever expected huge surface sales. I view it as something similar to Google's Nexus lineup. A solid piece of hardware to set the bar for OEMs.

[Jonor]

I don't see what's wrong with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Web_clients

Linux shows green arrows after previously being red arrows for the last several months, we haven't gained anything.

http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-monthly-201303-201303-bar

Linux is 'other'... gg

I'd accept the W3Counter figures from your wikipedia link giving OS usage are roughly Windows 75%, Mac 17%, Android 6%, Other (Linux, Blackberry etc.) 2%.
Those are very different figs to the pie chart don't you think ?
Steven Vaughan-Nichols seems to have removed the Android OS and other mobile OS representation without saying so.
What else non-Windows has he omitted without mention i wonder ?

[|{urse]

You should have installed a 3rd party Start menu that bypasses Metro. If you do that, Win8 really is a superior OS to Win7 and definitely XP.

Not to be contrary but I usually install classic start off ninite.com. They still hate it.

I personally think it's more stable, but the customers sure seem to disagree.

[forrestcupp]

+1

But windows 8.1 will take care of that when it's released. I hope they don't charge people for it.I still have my doubts that they'll add a start menu back. And you're right. They had better not charge for it. I doubt if it will add more than a good service pack would.


The sale of surface has not been stellar. I don't know what do you base your prediction on.I'll try to explain my predictions. It's an obvious trend that people are starting to buy more tablets and less desktops and laptops. You can see that plainly in sales numbers. But what I've run into is that everyone wants tablets, and they're getting good use out of them, but they're finding out that they're not able to completely replace traditional PCs. So my cousin's solution was to buy a new Surface hybrid with an Intel version of Win8 and a keyboard built into the case. So what she ended up with is a convertible tablet that she can install apps and any Windows software on and use it as either a functional tablet or a laptop. It's a pretty awesome concept to have a tablet that can run a fully functional version of Quickbooks or whatever software you want to throw on it.

The only problem is that they are still priced really high. That's why they're not selling well, mixed with the whole problem that people still don't understand them and they're not as readily available. By the next generation, we'll start to see traditional laptops begin to phase out as these fully functional Windows hybrids will start to take over. There will always be some market for traditional laptops because sometimes people will need bigger screens and other things that a hybrid tablet will never practically be able to provide. But the evolution is going to start heading toward these Windows hybrids because prices will drop and people will see that they can pay once to get the best of both worlds. But not until the prices drop, and they will.


As in more locked down and more DRM?Other than the whole UEFI thing, I haven't seen that Windows 8 is any more locked down than Windows 7.


Not to be contrary but I usually install classic start off ninite.com. They still hate it.

I personally think it's more stable, but the customers sure seem to disagree.But that doesn't even make sense. It has to be psychological based on what they have heard. With a 3rd party Start menu installed that bypasses Metro, Win8 is almost identical to Win7, except for stability and some positive changes to things like Windows Explorer. To the average user, they probably wouldn't even notice any difference at all. It has to be psychological.

[Resistent]

"I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself”
said Winston Churchill
so relax and enjoy linux. :-)

[|{urse]

But that doesn't even make sense. It has to be psychological based on what they have heard. With a 3rd party Start menu installed that bypasses Metro, Win8 is almost identical to Win7, except for stability and some positive changes to things like Windows Explorer. To the average user, they probably wouldn't even notice any difference at all. It has to be psychological.

I'm not arguing the validity of your statement that 8 is superior to 7 and XP, I agree. It most likely IS psychological. Perhaps they are 'Vista-shy'!

[forrestcupp]

I'm not arguing the validity of your statement that 8 is superior to 7 and XP, I agree. It most likely IS psychological. Perhaps they are 'Vista-shy'!

It's all of those darned Ubuntu lovers tainting everyone's opinions. :lol:

[|{urse]

It's all of those darned Ubuntu lovers tainting everyone's opinions. :lol:

Not I, McFly. :-\"

[alexfish]

Think the only true measure is to time slice

Then exlude what is not Available as an OS


Hence NEW sales as PRODUCT across the board + OS supply only = Total OS's

Then as a measure , take the date of realease of Windows 8 to Present

That would be true measure of success or failure ,

To compare Windows and say 8 is a Failure is Pure Lac , must have nothing better to do.

Typical Modern day Journalist , Half a brain and no Sence

or some one said "Two sandwiches short of a picnic"

Have Fun

Alex

[CharlesA]

The BBC have a good summary (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22439496) of the past day's media reactions to the hints that MS will be revamping Windows 8.

Pretty much nailed it.

[alexfish]

Pretty much nailed it.

BLUE , BLUE , BLUE ,BLUE MM! Remember that one

Windows Blue: How it could reinvent Windows (or sink Windows 8)

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2017470/windows-blue-how-it-could-reinvent-windows-or-sink-windows-8.html

[AmbiguousOutlier]

This thread sparked a thought, I wondered if actual usage would show a different picture, so I thought I would make my own pie chart. I had a look at the 2 million visitors to my website this year to find out what OS they were using. The sample is large enough to be robust although the visitors do tend to be ABC1's. This may have some influence into OS choice, so it could be debatable as to how representative the sample is to the total population, also it does also include mobile usage.

Linux is only coming in at 1.1% (20,168 visitors), maybe that's because people are using multiple devices and not using Linux for web browsing. I use a mixture of Android on tablet and Ubuntu on Laptop for browsing the web, depends on if I need to type a lot.

If I had more data I think it would be interesting to find out how many households have a least one Linux machine.

Anyway I need to go back to work and do some real analysis now.