Robotics for kids: suggestions?

[lykwydchykyn]

I want to help my two oldest boys get started in robotics; the oldest is into Linux and programming, and the second oldest is into building stuff (mostly with Lego, but he tinkers about with nuts and bolts and old plumbing parts, etc). As cool as it would be to get them Lego Mindstorms stuff, it's apparently aimed at kids whose dads are a paygrade or two above me. Anyone have any suggestions of how we can bring together Linux, programming, and robots in a way that won't break the bank?

[PhilGil]

One way for your kids to do Lego Mindstorms at a lower cost is to found or join a team: http://www.legoeducation.us/eng/competitions/. The kits are still expensive but the cost is split between all the parents on the team (and if there's an existing team in your area the cost could be minimal as they'll already have a lot of gear). My daughter participated in a competition a few years ago and had a great time.

[JDShu]

What's wrong with Arduino? I imagine you don't have to get the most expensive shields and parts to do something fun.

[Bucky Ball]

What's wrong with Arduino?

Fantastic place to start. This is an example of the literature out there for Arduino (and other things):

http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920010920.do

Here is the Arduino site:

http://www.arduino.cc/

You can pick up a simple starter board for not much but then the sky's the limit! That little beast is capable of plenty. The kids will learn a heap about capacitors, voltage, wiring, breadboards, programming and more. You can just keep adding components and expanding; attach small engines, run a security system, add sensors, have it communicate with sensors - light, heat - in toys. If you get into it you'll understand what I mean when I say it's comes down to the imagination as to what you go for, and there's plenty of info out there to get you started. You can make things as hard or simple as you like.

You program the Arduino via USB plugged into your computer. Runs beautifully in Linux. Have a look at 'Learning' link on their site. Good luck. ;)

PS: You needn't plug anything into a wall socket, you can run the board from a battery so very safe for kids (and adults!).
PPS: Plenty more vision here.
PPS: No, I don't work for Arduino, but I did have a love affair with one of their products some years ago ... *wistful*

[White Rasta]

I work with industrial roboctics in a plastics shop
It's all state of the art, and running off beckhoff plc controllers
we also have some Rockwell panelveiw controllers
I'm sorry to say it's all on a windows platform
I hope that changes some day
I have not seen a linux based option yet

[monkeybrain2012]

I don't think this addresses OP's question. But it is cool, just want to share it. :)
http://www.iloveubuntu.net/ubuntu-wild-professor-robotics-demoing-autonomous-flying-robots-uses-ubuntu

[lykwydchykyn]

Thanks guys; I am thinking about doing the arduino thing. How does that compare with raspberry pi for robotics/automation stuff?

[JDShu]

http://blog.makezine.com/2013/04/15/arduino-uno-vs-beaglebone-vs-raspberry-pi/

In your case, the arduino probably makes the most sense.

[lykwydchykyn]

Alrighty, I think I'm going to look for a good Arduino starter kit and a book. Any book recommendations?

EDIT: just ordered a starter kit with an Ardiuno and tons of components. We'll see how this goes...

[layers]

Arduino is best - easy and cheap (worth the money).
Pi and NXT are not needed.
Are you going to come up north sometimes soon? I just finished a rubik's cube robot and have an arduino and 8 servos that are just sitting in the garage.

[Bucky Ball]

Are you going to come up north sometimes soon? I just finished a rubik's cube robot and have an arduino and 8 servos that are just sitting in the garage.

@lykwydchykyn: I would make that trip! Did you include a breadboard in your box of tricks? If not, you will probably move onto it soon. That way you can get 'off the Arduino' and build things on the board using whatever components you like then wire it into the Arduino and program it through the computer. Anyways, I ramble ... it's inspiring me to dust mine off and get out the breadboard!

(PS: When you get things working for real on the breadboard and the Ardiuno you can consider that a prototype and solder up a permanent version of the breadboard (using a blank circuit board). In fact, you can do quite a bit with just a breadboard powered bya battery ...

Have fun! There will be frustrating bits but all good and all part of the learning curve. ;)

[Paqman]

I want to help my two oldest boys get started in robotics

What ages?

[layers]

of course there is a breadboard - always with more complex projects. Or shorter wires :p

[lykwydchykyn]

Arduino is best - easy and cheap (worth the money).
Pi and NXT are not needed.
Are you going to come up north sometimes soon? I just finished a rubik's cube robot and have an arduino and 8 servos that are just sitting in the garage.

Thanks layers, but that's quite a drive! I don't know if my old clunker minivan would make it. :)


Did you include a breadboard in your box of tricks?
Yeah, I got a big kit with all kinds of components (including a breadboard) and a book of projects. I haven't done electronics since college (back in the early '90s), but I remember a breadboard being pretty handy. I do still have my soldering iron if it comes to that, too.


What ages?

9 and 11. They might be a bit young for arduino hacking, but from what I can tell this thing might be useful in projects for years to come. I've bought age-targetted robot kits before, but it always seemed like you (meaning dad) built it while they sat by bored, then it was fun for two days, then that's it.

[Paqman]

9 and 11. They might be a bit young for arduino hacking

Sort of why I asked, Arduino is bare boards and fiddly connections.

I've played with both Arduinos and Mindstorms. Mindstorms is awesome, if you can pick up a cheap kit (Ebay?) I'd highly recommend it. Arduino is probably a bit techy for kids that age. Even if you do all the soldering and assembly it's still relatively fragile fiddly stuff. Depends on the kids though.

[lykwydchykyn]

Sort of why I asked, Arduino is bare boards and fiddly connections.

I've played with both Arduinos and Mindstorms. Mindstorms is awesome, if you can pick up a cheap kit (Ebay?) I'd highly recommend it. Arduino is probably a bit techy for kids that age. Even if you do all the soldering and assembly it's still relatively fragile fiddly stuff. Depends on the kids though.

Yeah, I've looked for mindstorms stuff on ebay and whatnot. What you can get for < $100 is pretty limited (mostly just partial kits or spare parts).

I don't expect to drop the arduino on them and walk away, my plan at first is to do simple projects as a class (we homeschool) and see where it goes. They've done a bit of electronics with snap circuits and an old radio-shack electronics set that I had as a kid (complete with fiddly wires).

I guess my feeling is, if it *is* too advanced for them right now, it's at least not a total waste. They'll be old enough for it before I know it, and in the meantime Dad can get up to speed.

What I ended up buying was this, btw:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BXD5IXM/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Paqman]

Tbh, if you pick the projects well and build up the skills gradually they should be fine. First thing everybody does with an Arduino is make it blink LEDs, but after that the world's your oyster really. If your older lad is already programming he should be able to get some life out of it straight away.

[layers]

Also, they are kids. Make them interested in it, show them the cool side and they will like it.
I mean, if you tell them they can make a home-beer-brewer with an arduino, you might not have so much success. If you tell them they can make a machine that shoots ping-pong balls at a basketball hoop - they might like it, if they are into those kinds of thing. Think! you were a kid once...

[lykwydchykyn]

I showed them some arduino videos last night (things people have made with the arduino); they were pretty interested, even with relatively dry stuff like an EMF detector. Of course the voice-controlled spider robot was a hit, but I told them we probably won't get into something like that just yet ;)...

[Bucky Ball]

9 & 11? Shouldn't be an issue. I've seen kids 6-7 coming up with stuff on the Arduino. Sounds like you're starting slow so that is a good thing. They'll probably pick it up and start teaching you before long! ;)

PS: The kit looks great. My first Arduino board cost me about that just for the board about six years ago! The Arduino Diecimila.

[codingman]

They will be fine. I currently don't have an arduino, but I have a teensyduino, which does the same as an arduino board, but it's smaller. Pretty nice kit, by the way.

[lykwydchykyn]

Hi everyone. I just wanted to follow up on this thread, for the benefit of those who gave me such good advice.

I got the arduino kit back in May, and all summer I've been doing an electronics/arduino lesson with the kids about 1 hour a week. It's been a smashing success. They always look forward to our lesson, and now they each want their own arduino (I confess, I've been hogging the arduino a bit; part of me wishes I'd gone into EE, and I finally understand this stuff!). My 9-yr-old has been disassembling an old clock radio to see how it works, and my 11-yr old is hitting codeacademy every day to get proficient in Python and Javascript.

Our favorite project so far was creating a capacitive touchplate with aluminum foil and feeding the output into a loudspeaker; everyone in the family took turns touching it to see what kind of "music" came out.

It's amazing what's now available online for free if you've got an interest in hacking electronics; blogs, vlogs, online magazines, wikipedia, datasheet archives, etc. Wish we'd had these kind of resources when I was a kid; my career path may have turned out differently.

Thanks for the advice and guidance everyone!

[Bucky Ball]

Fantastic follow-up and result. Warms me heart to hear it.

Good luck with the future projects and don't forget to look into Tom Igoe's work. Remember, as with the dissasembling of old radios and stuff, 'hacking' of existing and obsolete technology also produces some unique and great results. I got into this through a degree in music technology I was doing. Old musical toys are a treasure trove of unique noises, sounds and unexpected results to do some 'circuit bending' on. Plug one into a battery, rip the back off and start hacking! Touch a wire to one point of the device (say volume or tuning) then the other end to where ever. If you find something you like, make the hack permanent with solder and connect to one of the switches or put a new on/in. Run the wire to a breadboard external with a synth or amp chip and back to point B of the hack.

Hours of fun. Possibilities endless. Circuit bending: a game the whole family can play!

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=circuit+bending&oq=circuit+bending&gs_l=youtube.3..0l10.34456.36897.0.37127.15.14.0.1 .1.1.347.2179.3j7j1j2.13.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtub e.aXTXnIZ4RPo

Keep an eye out for the father of CBending, Reed Ghazala.

WARNING: NEVER circuit bend anything plugged into a wall socket (unless you are qualified to do so, and even then, not advisable as the results are unpredictable and could result in shorts, fire, blown things generally. That's why it's circuit bending and not electronics 101, although there is an element of that which is another positive). ;)

More bending:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=circuit+bending+speedy&oq=circuit+bending+speedy&gs_l=youtube.3...261994.267161.0.267843.13.10.1.2. 2.2.847.2766.1j2j5j0j1j0j1.10.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.y outube.Y0p4bWmNZpg

Enjoy!

[lykwydchykyn]

I got into this through a degree in music technology I was doing.

Interesting! I went to college for music tech also, though I left after my third year to join a band and (not) get rich and famous. I had to minor in electronics, but after I left school the little I learned about electronics kind of faded. I could fix mic cables and wire up the PA, but that was about it. The recording artist days are long gone, but I still have a lot of my gear. Maybe the boys and I need to work up a custom stomp box or a VCO that we can control from the arduino.

[leg]

+1 for Arduino. I bought myself a starter kit and enjoyed the projects it had. (Traffic lights, binary counter etc.) and then you can start adding different shields bit by bit to build more complicated projects up to and including robots. There are lots of tutorial sites and project details available and the emphasis is on learning.