13.04 need installation advice - machine is a rats nest

[carusoswi]

I have an Asus G74S running Win7 Pro. If it matters, I have max ram at 16GB and plenty of hard drive space. When I bought the machine, I attempted to install dual boot Ubuntu 12.04. It did not go well, and no boot selector (grub) screen appeared when I tried to reboot.

This is a work machine, so I had to get it up and running. Decided that my install disc must have been bad, so I took a known good CD containing Ubuntu 10.10, installed it along side, and recovered a workable grub from that install.

I didn't mess around with Ubuntu for a while after that, but, at a later date installed 12.10 successfully.

Two weeks ago, while in 12.10, I received a message inviting me to update. I accepted only to be presented with a blank screen upon booting into Ubuntu. Well, it's not blank. The desktop appears displaying two folders, but there is nothing else, no unity bar, no other icons.

I tried some suggestions in terminal, but they did not solve the problem.

Now that 13.04 is out, what I'd really like to do is clean off all previous copies of Ubuntu, regain all that hard disc space, and install one clean copy of Ubuntu 13.04.

. . . except I am not certain just how to go about it, and I cannot risk fowling my Windows install.

Can someone suggest a step by step procedure?

I've booted into the live cd, gone so far in the install process as to look at the partitions and have marked them for deletion (all the Ubuntu paritions). But, I'm not certain what to do next, so I have not clicked the Continue button, have always opted to quite which reverts all my marked partitions back to their original state since I did not write them to disc (a procedure that is not reversible).

I know I cannot hold anyone responsible for whatever advice you give, but would appreciate hearing from someone with more than my casual experiencing with setting up Ubuntu in such a situation.

My Boot Loader (I'm guessing that's grub) is located on SDA_name of HD. So is my Ubuntu 10.04 from which I rescued the machine back when. If I delete that Ubuntu 10.04, will that destroy my grub?
If I delete all the Ubuntu partitions, do I then setup new ones and write the whole revised table to disc then proceed with the install?
Will the install write me a new grub?

All questions to which I have yet to find a clear answer.

Suggestions/advice most appreciated.

Caruso

[darkod]

To have a better picture of your partitions, boot into live mode again, open terminal and post the output of:

sudo parted -l

[carusoswi]

To have a better picture of your partitions, boot into live mode again, open terminal and post the output of:

sudo parted -l

Per your request, and thanks for the reply:


ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ sudo parted -l
Model: ATA WDC WD5000BPKT-8 (scsi)
Disk /dev/sda: 500GB
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/4096B
Partition Table: msdos

Number Start End Size Type File system Flags
1 1049kB 17.2GB 17.2GB primary fat32 hidden, lba
3 17.2GB 26.8GB 9657MB extended
5 17.2GB 26.4GB 9194MB logical ext4
6 26.4GB 26.8GB 462MB logical linux-swap(v1)
2 26.8GB 500GB 473GB primary ntfs boot


Model: ATA WDC WD5000BPKT-8 (scsi)
Disk /dev/sdb: 500GB
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/4096B
Partition Table: msdos

Number Start End Size Type File system Flags
1 1049kB 250GB 250GB primary ntfs boot
2 250GB 358GB 108GB primary ntfs
3 358GB 500GB 142GB extended
7 358GB 440GB 81.6GB logical ext4
6 440GB 492GB 52.0GB logical ext4
5 492GB 500GB 8564MB logical linux-swap(v1)


Warning: Unable to open /dev/sr0 read-write (Read-only file system). /dev/sr0
has been opened read-only.
Error: Can't have a partition outside the disk!

[darkod]

So, you have two 500GB disks, and plenty of ubuntu partitions on them. You have no data that you need on any ubuntu partitions, right?

I suggest you forget about using the ext4 and swap partitions on /dev/sda, they are only 10GB in total anyway.

To delete the linux partitions on /dev/sdb, boot into live mode, open Gparted and select /dev/sdb in the top right corner in the drop down box. The swap partition, /dev/sdb5, might show a keys symbol next to it, since swap gets mounted in live mode to work faster. Do a right-click on the partition, Swapoff. The symbol should be gone.

Then delete one by one all linux partitions, including the extended one. Be careful not to touch the ntfs partitions. When you are happy with it, click the green button in the Gparted toolbar to do the changes. At that moment it will delete the partitions and rescan the disks. You can exit Gparted now.

Start the ubuntu install, and if you want to you can use the auto method "Install along side Windows" which should install into the unallocated space you just created on /dev/sdb.
If you want to, you can use the manual method which gives you total control. Also if you want separate /home partition you need to use the manual method. If you do use it, the device for the grub2 bootloader should be a MBR of any of the disks, /dev/sda or /dev/sdb. Without any number in it. A number means a partition.

If you put grub2 on /dev/sdb you will have to set BIOS to boot from the second disk first.

That should be it. You can deal with the linux partitions on /dev/sda later.

[carusoswi]

Thank you for your detailed instructions. I shall follow them closely (and hopefully, report back that all was successful).
While I feel comfortable with Ubuntu installs, I really never had a handle on the layout.
If I partition manually, what partition sizes to you recommend for me?
Thanks again.
Caruso

[d0006]

These are just some SWAGs to see what smarter members think. DANGER WILL ROBINSON: don't actually try this until you get a second opinion!

Go to walmart and buy a 3TB external HDD for $150 and use dd to make an image of your windows drive! dd was a total PITA for me to figure out but you should take the time and learn it. Here is a MASSIVE 50+ page thread (from 2005!) that describes dd: https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/learn-the-dd-command-362506/#post1848006

You have two HDDs. I'm guessing /sda is the windows install and /sdb is Linux only (GNU/Linux for RMS). Delete all NON-windows partitions on /sda. Resize remaining partitions with windows tools to use all the HDD. Use the drive as windows only and don't do anything else. Copy anything you want to save from /sdb to /sda. Delete all partitions from /sdb (I am sure you know this will wipe everything!). Repartition /sdb using GPT (GUID Partition Table, might as well, you'll need GPT when you get a really big drive.) with / (root), /boot, /home, and /swap (32 GB, two times your RAM). Format partitions as ext4. Do fresh install of Linux distro of your choice on /sdb. Use /sdb as Linux only.

You will have to figure out how to configure a bootloader to present a choice of which OS to boot. I do not dual boot so I do not know how to do this but I have seen hundreds of guides that explain this.

[darkod]

The main system partition, called root partition, is either one big partition or 20-25 GB. The rest of the space can be /home partition where you keep all your personal data, media files, etc. The good thing in this layout is that you can do future clean installs (which are always better than upgrades), but keep the /home partition and reuse it without formatting. You only format root and install your new install there.
The swap partition needs 1.5 x RAM size if yuo want to hibernate, but if you don't plan to use hibernate and you have plenty of RAM, using 1.5x for swap is waste of space. It's enough 2GB or 4GB for swap.

So, you are looking into two possible layouts for standard home system (lets say you have about 140GB for ubuntu, that's what you have in total in the linux partitions on sdb):
136GB for root partition, filesystem ext4, mount point /
4GB for swap, filesystem swap area, swap doesn't use mount point so there is no one to set

20GB ext4, mount point /
116GB ext4, mount point /home
4GB swap

The second one should fit nicely into a standard home desktop. Put the bootloader on /dev/sdb too, and tell BIOS to boot from it. That will also keep your windows bootloader on /dev/sda.

[darkod]

These are just some SWAGs to see what smarter members think. DANGER WILL ROBINSON: don't actually try this until you get a second opinion!

Go to walmart and buy a 3TB external HDD for $150 and use dd to make an image of your windows drive! dd was a total PITA for me to figure out but you should take the time and learn it. Here is a MASSIVE 50+ page thread (from 2005!) that describes dd: https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/learn-the-dd-command-362506/#post1848006

You have two HDDs. I'm guessing /sda is the windows install and /sdb is Linux only (GNU/Linux for RMS). Delete all NON-windows partitions on /sda. Resize remaining partitions with windows tools to use all the HDD. Use the drive as windows only and don't do anything else. Copy anything you want to save from /sdb to /sda. Delete all partitions from /sdb (I am sure you know this will wipe everything!). Repartition /sdb using GPT (GUID Partition Table, might as well, you'll need GPT when you get a really big drive.) with / (root), /boot, /home, and /swap (32 GB, two times your RAM). Format partitions as ext4. Do fresh install of Linux distro of your choice on /sdb. Use /sdb as Linux only.

You will have to figure out how to configure a bootloader to present a choice of which OS to boot. I do not dual boot so I do not know how to do this but I have seen hundreds of guides that explain this.



Sorry, but I have to disagree with this. Some points here bring much more danger than benefit.
First, dd is dangerous especially for unexperienced users. Many people have deleted their disk using dd wrongly.
Second, there is no need to delete all ntfs partitions on the ubuntu disk. If you want to use that space from windows, why deleting them if you don't need much space for ubuntu?

On second look, windows might actually be on sdb too, I just noticed the boot flag on sdb1. I first saw it only on sda2 and assumed windows has to be there, but sdb1 is a possibility too. Which means deleting all ntfs partitions on sdb would delete windows too.

Also 32GB of swap is a real waste of space. You will barely use it, especially with 16GB of RAM. Why waste so much space.

[d0006]

If I partition manually, what partition sizes to you recommend for me?
Caruso

I use:

/<root> -> 20GB (a little bigger will not hurt. 30GB max. More is a waste.)
/boot -> 2GB (or the minimum partition size. Some partition tools on some drive sizes will not allow a partition as small as 2GB)
/swap -> Two times RAM (very generous but why not.)
/home -> Remaining space.

Format as ext4.

If you use GPT all partitions can be primary (up to 128!)

Note: if you want to burn blu-ray disks you may want to make / bigger or a separate /tmp. You should do a search if you think you need this.

[carusoswi]

Uhm, what do I make of all this?
I have done nothing yet. Would appreciate some clarification on the above.
What I do not want to do is trash my Win7. Most of my data files are stored in the cloud, but plenty of sensitive, income-related data also resides within my Windows setup. I cannot afford to lose that data.

I am not interested in deleting any NTFS partitions, and I assume that, if I preserve them, I should not lose anything on the Windows side, no matter what else I do in terms of deleting, adding, or formatting partitions.

Conservation of storage space is not a major concern to me - I have plenty, and, in addition, I have more than a dozen external drives onto which I could load data if space becomes a concern.

I appreciate the counterpoint, but clarification would be appreciated.

Caruso

[darkod]

As you said, leaving the ntfs partitions alone keeps the data on them untouched. That's why I didn't suggest deleting any ntfs partitions. You said the data is important to you. It doesn't hurt having a backup just in case, if you have external storage to make that backup.

But in 99.9% of cases there should be no problem.

[d0006]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with this. Some points here bring much more danger than benefit.
First, dd is dangerous especially for unexperienced users. Many people have deleted their disk using dd wrongly.
Second, there is no need to delete all ntfs partitions on the ubuntu disk. If you want to use that space from windows, why deleting them if you don't need much space for ubuntu?

On second look, windows might actually be on sdb too, I just noticed the boot flag on sdb1. I first saw it only on sda2 and assumed windows has to be there, but sdb1 is a possibility too. Which means deleting all ntfs partitions on sdb would delete windows too.

Also 32GB of swap is a real waste of space. You will barely use it, especially with 16GB of RAM. Why waste so much space.
I have absolutely no disagreement with what you say!
I do think the OP should do a backup. What method do you suggest?

I do think it would be better to have each OS on a separate HDD.

[darkod]

I have absolutely no disagreement with what you say!
I do think the OP should do a backup. What method do you suggest?

I do think it would be better to have each OS on a separate HDD.

Simply boot windows and copy what you want to copy. Or use the built-in Backup & Restore tool (or what ever it's called).

Also, dd would copy all sector by sector including blank sectors which you don't need, and is very slow.

Having separate OSs on separate disks is not bad, but in case you don't need much space for ubuntu there is no need to allocate whole disk to it.

[d0006]

Uhm, what do I make of all this?
I have done nothing yet. Would appreciate some clarification on the above.
What I do not want to do is trash my Win7. Most of my data files are stored in the cloud, but plenty of sensitive, income-related data also resides within my Windows setup. I cannot afford to lose that data.

I am not interested in deleting any NTFS partitions, and I assume that, if I preserve them, I should not lose anything on the Windows side, no matter what else I do in terms of deleting, adding, or formatting partitions.

Conservation of storage space is not a major concern to me - I have plenty, and, in addition, I have more than a dozen external drives onto which I could load data if space becomes a concern.

I appreciate the counterpoint, but clarification would be appreciated.

Caruso

Just count the beans! darkod has >11,000 posts! I am pretty sure (99.999999%) if you do what he says you will be fine! I'm just brainstorming. You say your system is a mess. I posted some ideas that I thought would give you a system that was more organized. I did warn you to get other opinions!

I like to use this forum to learn more about Linux so I am always interested in different methods. Maybe this is also true for you. If you really want to use Linux effectively you at least need to know what is possible. Some things are dangerous and can destroy all your data. You need to know what they are so you know when to be really careful. dd is one of these but it is also very powerful. It took me about a week to really understand dd. I type the command in an editor and review it several times before I paste it in the terminal.

If your data is important you MUST have a backup! I think this a major problem with Linux. There are many methods so it is difficult to choose which one to use. This is why I think a disk image is the best method, at least the first time. A disk image will save EVERYTHING on the ENTIRE HDD, including ALL the boot stuff. If your original system was working, you can restore the image to a new HDD of the same size or larger and you will instantly have a working system IDENTICAL to the original! You will have ALL your data exactly the same as when you made the image.

Anyway, I think this is very true:
http://www.ihaveapc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/mac.jpg
If you are not careful with Linux you can really hurt yourself. The more you know the lower the risk of serious harm.

[carusoswi]

To all:
Thanks for taking the time to respond here. I apologize for not posting back my results sooner, but have been very busy at the office, and had no time to work on this until a week ago, at which time, I relied upon the advice in this thread to go about sizing my partitions and installing Ubuntu.

All went smoothly, and I suffered no Windows data loss.

I'd like to mark this thread solved, but do not see where that option is located.

Thanks again.

Caruso

[carusoswi]

Found the 'solved' mark under thread tools. Done.