13.04 Just a few remarks about the taskbar

[thany]

Okay so the taskbar is horrible as ever (meaning since it's been changed for the worse, it hasn't become better at all).

1) You can't move it to the bottom of the screen, or anywhere else.
2) Trying to drag an icon grabs all icons at once, and doing so has completely no effect. This is an utterly meaningless thing to have implemented.
3) To drag an icon, you first need to drag it to the right, but dragging it to the right would make sense for making a shortcut on the desktop. Which brings me to (4)...
4) You can't make shortcuts on the desktop. Let me repeat that, for emphasis: YOU CAN'T MAKE SHORTCUTS ON THE DESKTOP. I mean, honestly, why?
5) The start menu is still fullscreen. Totally overkill.
6) No apparant way to browse software installed on the pc.
7) Taskbar and top bar have no right-click menu. It feels like something is missing, because in Linux' nature, everything should be customizable and therefor needs a menu to do just that.
8) Speaking of the top bar, why can't you move it somewhere else, too?
9) Why not merge the top bar and taskbar into one, like Windows does so brilliantly?
10) The rightclick menu for an icon (on the taskbar again) has too few options. When the application isn't running, something like properties seems missing. When it is running, maximize/restore/minimize seems missing. Also no way to open a second instance.
11) The top bar fades between the application name and it's menu. Confusing. There's enough space and all the reason to keep the menu in view all the time.
12) Maximized applications have no visible restore/minimize/close buttons (only invisible ones, made visible by hovering the top bar). Confusing.

That's it for now. Back to Windows 7 again, which does all of these things right.


Disclaimer: I'm not looking for a Windows 7 clone! I'm looking for a sensible GUI. KDE is not a sensible one either, it's bloated and the start button (on the keyboard) doesn't even work. XDE is fine, a bit "too classic" to my taste, but much more sensible.

[Feathers McGraw]

This should probably be in the cafe as it's not really an issue anyone can "fix".

Unity is set up so it works the same using a mouse as it does using a touch screen, which basically explains all of your gripes. Ubuntu is not the only option, if you don't like Unity, try Kubuntu (http://www.kubuntu.org), Lubuntu (http://lubuntu.net) or Xubuntu (http://xubuntu.org). Or even Linux Mint (http://www.linuxmint.com).

You will find:

The taskbar is at the bottom.
Dragging and dropping icons works the way you expect it to.
Making shortcuts on the desktop in Kubuntu is easy.
Restore / minimise / close work as you would expect them to: dragging windows to one side of the screen makes them fill that half of the screen.

etc. etc.

No need to give up quite so easily.

Feathers

[Feathers McGraw]

Ha, someone moved it. Fast work!

Feathers

[GameX2]

Okay so the taskbar is horrible as ever (meaning since it's been changed for the worse, it hasn't become better at all).

1) You can't move it to the bottom of the screen, or anywhere else.
2) Trying to drag an icon grabs all icons at once, and doing so has completely no effect. This is an utterly meaningless thing to have implemented.
3) To drag an icon, you first need to drag it to the right, but dragging it to the right would make sense for making a shortcut on the desktop. Which brings me to (4)...
4) You can't make shortcuts on the desktop. Let me repeat that, for emphasis: YOU CAN'T MAKE SHORTCUTS ON THE DESKTOP. I mean, honestly, why?
5) The start menu is still fullscreen. Totally overkill.
6) No apparant way to browse software installed on the pc.
7) Taskbar and top bar have no right-click menu. It feels like something is missing, because in Linux' nature, everything should be customizable and therefor needs a menu to do just that.
8) Speaking of the top bar, why can't you move it somewhere else, too?
9) Why not merge the top bar and taskbar into one, like Windows does so brilliantly?
10) The rightclick menu for an icon (on the taskbar again) has too few options. When the application isn't running, something like properties seems missing. When it is running, maximize/restore/minimize seems missing. Also no way to open a second instance.
11) The top bar fades between the application name and it's menu. Confusing. There's enough space and all the reason to keep the menu in view all the time.
12) Maximized applications have no visible restore/minimize/close buttons (only invisible ones, made visible by hovering the top bar). Confusing.

That's it for now. Back to Windows 7 again, which does all of these things right.


Disclaimer: I'm not looking for a Windows 7 clone! I'm looking for a sensible GUI. KDE is not a sensible one either, it's bloated and the start button (on the keyboard) doesn't even work. XDE is fine, a bit "too classic" to my taste, but much more sensible.

1. You can move it to the bottom using an experimental Compiz plugin, back in 11.10. Mark said it couldn't be moved due to design.

2-3. I don't have this problem.

4. All your shortcuts are located in /usr/share/applications. Move them from here to your desktop.

5. In the Dash (Not a Start Menu) settings, or in CCSM, you can change the size to "Netbook" to make it smaller.

6. In the Dash, choose the "Applications" lens. Alternatively, use the Software Center, or even better, Synaptic (No more included. It should be).

7. GNOME2 is like that - unfortunately, sad to say Unity is less customizable (But still good).

9. Linux Mint ? Check it out. Even GNOME2.

10. Using the excellent software "Ubuntu-Tweak", you can add all the shortcuts you want (Called Quicklists).


My advice: Have a look at Linux Mint. ;)

[craig10x]

The reason you can't make shortcuts to the desktop is because the UNITY DOCK is the place to put shortcuts (instead of the desktop)...the idea is to put all your favorite and most used apps on the unity dock for quick 1 click access..and for rarely used apps, you simply open the "dash" search (the button on the top) to find and open that app...

Simple and quick to use...you just aren't getting the concept, it seems...stop thinking in terms of old desktops...this is actually more like a Mac...didn't you ever play with a Mac? works the same way...

[MadmanRB]

1) You can't move it to the bottom of the screen, or anywhere else.

yeah I hate this too, I really wish the launcher was movable


2) Trying to drag an icon grabs all icons at once, and doing so has completely no effect. This is an utterly meaningless thing to have implemented.
Huh? never has this issue with Unity.


3) To drag an icon, you first need to drag it to the right, but dragging it to the right would make sense for making a shortcut on the desktop. Which brings me to (4)...
4) You can't make shortcuts on the desktop. Let me repeat that, for emphasis: YOU CAN'T MAKE SHORTCUTS ON THE DESKTOP. I mean, honestly, why?
Actually you can drag and drop an icon from the dash not the launcher to the desktop, just hit the re-size button and you can drag and drop til your hearts desire.


5) The start menu is still fullscreen. Totally overkill.
Again you can resize it


6) No apparant way to browse software installed on the pc.
there is, you can use the file manager to go to the applications directories.
But you really dont need to do this, most apps will appear in the dash


7) Taskbar and top bar have no right-click menu. It feels like something is missing, because in Linux' nature, everything should be customizable and therefor needs a menu to do just that.
8) Speaking of the top bar, why can't you move it somewhere else, too?


Yeah I wish there was more flexibility with the top panel in unity


9) Why not merge the top bar and taskbar into one, like Windows does so brilliantly?
Because everything has to be like windows!
*insert Deity here* forbid it look like anything else!


10) The rightclick menu for an icon (on the taskbar again) has too few options. When the application isn't running, something like properties seems missing. When it is running, maximize/restore/minimize seems missing. Also no way to open a second instance.
Yeah right click does nothing in the launcher if nothing is open, but news flash the same thing happens in 7 with certain apps (not all)
Click on the icon again for a new instance.


11) The top bar fades between the application name and it's menu. Confusing. There's enough space and all the reason to keep the menu in view all the time.
12) Maximized applications have no visible restore/minimize/close buttons (only invisible ones, made visible by hovering the top bar). Confusing.

Yeah the fading is a pain, I kind of get it though and you do get used to it


Disclaimer: I'm not looking for a Windows 7 clone! I'm looking for a sensible GUI. KDE is not a sensible one either, it's bloated and the start button (on the keyboard) doesn't even work. XDE is fine, a bit "too classic" to my taste, but much more sensible

Well yes the start button on the keyboard doesnt work to open the menu in KDE.
But there is this magical thing called a MOUSE
Plus you can get a key combo to do it like super (the windows key) + m or something

[montag dp]

Sounds to me like by "sensible" you actually do mean "Windows 7 clone," despite your disclaimer. KDE can do everything you put on your list, but you don't like it because you have to press Super + something else instead of just Super to open the menu? That's a little unreasonable if you ask me. Be a little more flexible and you'll learn new things and have more fun.

By the way, KDE is nowhere near as bloated as Windows, if that's a problem for you. On my laptop KDE uses about 1/4 the RAM Windows 7 uses at idle.

[thany]

By "bloated" I don't mean the memory footprint. I couldn't care less about that. I mean the sheer mount of features that too few people use. It's so clouded with features that it's hard to find what you're actually looking for. Those widgets, the level of customization, the number of themes. It's all good in a way, but is so MUCH to take it all at once. It's like Microsoft Office: it's so good that it's bad (and I do use LibreOffice, just so you know).

Everyone, thanks for replying, but I think my points remain standing. Some of them may be bugs, which must be fixed, but being "designed" that way is no excuse. That just means it's bad design. Using all kinds of tweaks and programs to make something just work normally is not a sign of a well-designed piece of software. Also the oftenly mentioned term "touch" is a big no-no when installed on a regular desktop with no touchy input. A touchable interface has no place on a non-touch device (which is why I find Windows 8 Metro disgusting on any desktop). So, on a regular desktop, Ubuntu should install itself as is easily operated by mouse and keyboard. We CAN right-click, and we DO have a pixel-precise pointer.

[Feathers McGraw]

A touchable interface has no place on a non-touch device (which is why I find Windows 8 Metro disgusting on any desktop).

Agree with the first bit, unless you don't use a desktop/laptop that much...seeing as most stuff is done in a browser nowadays, it's not inconceivable that people will start using a tablet for the majority of their computer use. If the desktop isn't the main device (say you only use it 25% of the time) then it could be a pain to have to learn to use a different interface just for the desktop, in the same way that you were complaining about things in Ubuntu being different to most desktops.

If the settings, layout etc. are the same for ubuntu on a tablet as they are on a desktop, then it's easy to switch between devices. Also, it probably won't be too long before most new laptops have touch screens and keyboards.


on a regular desktop, Ubuntu should install itself as is easily operated by mouse and keyboard. We CAN right-click, and we DO have a pixel-precise pointer.

Back to the original point, Ubuntu isn't the only *buntu! The others aren't designed with touch in mind, and do install themselves as easily operated by mouse and keyboard. Based on what you're after, it sounds like you selected badly in the first place...

The people working on Ubuntu are free to concentrate on Unity and its touch-based input, safe in the knowledge that other people are working on Kubuntu, Lubuntu and Xubuntu... and if people are after that kind of interface, they will use one of those instead.

Feathers

[TeamRocket1233c]

Ubuntu is not the only option, if you don't like Unity, try Kubuntu (http://www.kubuntu.org), Lubuntu (http://lubuntu.net) or Xubuntu (http://xubuntu.org). Or even Linux Mint (http://www.linuxmint.com).

You can also install the MATE, Cinnamon, or straight KDE, Xfce, or LXDE, as well as E17 or GNOME 3.8, in Ubuntu as well, however MATE, E17, and GNOME 3.8 require PPAs, and if you want the latest version of Cinnamon, a PPA is required there as well.

[Feathers McGraw]

Ubuntu + KDE = Kubuntu, no?

Is there any difference in what's actually under the bonnet? If not, I don't see why you'd cause yourself all the hassle of installing Ubuntu then installing KDE, when you could just install Kubuntu and be done with it.

Feathers

[Giraffemonster]

Sounds to me like by "sensible" you actually do mean "Windows 7 clone," despite your disclaimer. KDE can do everything you put on your list, but you don't like it because you have to press Super + something else instead of just Super to open the menu? That's a little unreasonable if you ask me. Be a little more flexible and you'll learn new things and have more fun.

By the way, KDE is nowhere near as bloated as Windows, if that's a problem for you. On my laptop KDE uses about 1/4 the RAM Windows 7 uses at idle.

Pretty much this. KDE isn't nearly as bloated, and is configurable enough to make it even less bloated (interface wise). About opening the menu, I'm pretty sure you can hotkey it to just pressing Super by itself, can you not?

Anyway, there's plenty of Desktop Environments, OP. Jumping OS's because you don't feel like customizing any DE's seems pretty unnecessary.

[MadmanRB]

Ubuntu + KDE = Kubuntu, no?

Is there any difference in what's actually under the bonnet? If not, I don't see why you'd cause yourself all the hassle of installing Ubuntu then installing KDE, when you could just install Kubuntu and be done with it.

Feathers

Eh I sometimes add kde later on in some of my ubuntu installs its not that hard to do and takes the pain out of re installing the entire OS.


By "bloated" I don't mean the memory footprint. I couldn't care less about that. I mean the sheer mount of features that too few people use. It's so clouded with features that it's hard to find what you're actually looking for. Those widgets, the level of customization, the number of themes. It's all good in a way, but is so MUCH to take it all at once. It's like Microsoft Office: it's so good that it's bad (and I do use LibreOffice, just so you know).

Everyone, thanks for replying, but I think my points remain standing. Some of them may be bugs, which must be fixed, but being "designed" that way is no excuse. That just means it's bad design. Using all kinds of tweaks and programs to make something just work normally is not a sign of a well-designed piece of software. Also the oftenly mentioned term "touch" is a big no-no when installed on a regular desktop with no touchy input. A touchable interface has no place on a non-touch device (which is why I find Windows 8 Metro disgusting on any desktop). So, on a regular desktop, Ubuntu should install itself as is easily operated by mouse and keyboard. We CAN right-click, and we DO have a pixel-precise pointer.

Yes but KDE is pretty much the most like Windows 7 and with getting used to its pretty good.
Sure it has features, istn that what you want?
to have something that will work prety much exactly like windows?
well KDE can do that no problem.
Unity just has different goals in mind then windows, its another interface and really with some getting used to it can work.
I dare you to go use someones apple sometime, you will be lost in the sauce and demand it be windows too.

[monkeybrain2012]

post deleted by author. Barking up wrong tree it seems. :)

[monkeybrain2012]

Yes but KDE is pretty much the most like Windows 7


That's why I don't like it. ; )

[MadmanRB]

That's why I don't like it. ; )

Well you can set it up any way you like so that is one good thing about KDE.
Make it like windows, Ubuntu, OSX whatever :D

Though I have two words for the OP:

Linux mint

[Feathers McGraw]

...but which Linux Mint? Cinnamon, KDE, LMDE? ;)

[MadmanRB]

Considering he objects to KDE, I will suggest Cinnamon.
Though by default it doesnt have the windows 7 superbar like feature but there is an extension to get something like it.
Mate will look too "old" to his "ooh shiny!" tastes.

[craig10x]

The difference between windows 8 and unity is that windows 8 metro interface is really designed totally for touchscreens and that is why it is not so mouse friendly...Unity is quite different, it is designed to be easy to use with BOTH mouse AND touchscreens...And he obviously has never played with an Apple (MAC) computer or ever used a dock before, which is probably why unity seems so "alien" to him...

[3rdalbum]

4) You can't make shortcuts on the desktop. Let me repeat that, for emphasis: YOU CAN'T MAKE SHORTCUTS ON THE DESKTOP. I mean, honestly, why?

The desktop is not the correct place for application shortcuts when you've got a special place for the shortcuts on the left side of the screen, that will always be on top.

I'll also correct you: You can make shortcuts on the desktop with your file browser.


5) The start menu is still fullscreen. Totally overkill.

It's not "the start menu"; that's what they have in Windows. We have the Dash, and it's only fullscreen if you've got a small screen.


6) No apparant way to browse software installed on the pc.

Er... you kidding?


because in Linux' nature, everything should be customizable and therefor needs a menu to do just that.

Linux grew up.


9) Why not merge the top bar and taskbar into one, like Windows does so brilliantly?

Because it merges the title bar of maximised windows AND the menubar, too.


10) The rightclick menu for an icon (on the taskbar again) has too few options. When the application isn't running, something like properties seems missing. When it is running, maximize/restore/minimize seems missing. Also no way to open a second instance.

You claim to be a Windows 7 user. Maximise, minimise and restore are not present in Windows 7 jumplists either. Also, as in Windows 7, you open a second instance by middle-clicking the icon.


11) The top bar fades between the application name and it's menu. Confusing. There's enough space and all the reason to keep the menu in view all the time.
12) Maximized applications have no visible restore/minimize/close buttons (only invisible ones, made visible by hovering the top bar). Confusing.

Earlier, you wanted to merge everything into one bar, and now you want to unfold everything again because "there's enough space". You might have missed it if you weren't using computers back then, but one of the reasons Firefox became so popular is because it ditched most of the "chrome" in favour of giving the user more space for their content. Funnily enough, when Google Chrome came along that was one of its big selling points too. People prefer to have usable screen space for their content, not taken up by the operating system.


That's it for now. Back to Windows 7 again, which does all of these things right. Disclaimer: I'm not looking for a Windows 7 clone!

I can tell, some of your criticisms about Unity are also criticisms about Windows 7, which funnily enough "does all of these things right".


KDE is not a sensible one either, it's bloated and the start button (on the keyboard) doesn't even work.

Enjoy Windows 7. Unfortunately it sounds like you'll be completely unable to switch to anything else in 2020 when Windows 7 runs out of support.

[montag dp]

Pretty much this. KDE isn't nearly as bloated, and is configurable enough to make it even less bloated (interface wise). About opening the menu, I'm pretty sure you can hotkey it to just pressing Super by itself, can you not?
No, you can't. You have to add another key. I use Super + Space, which is basically as easy as Super by itself. It's certainly nothing to give up on KDE over.