Feedback from a windows user

[PureLaine]

Hi everyone,

This is a feedback based on a subjective view. Ubuntu is the first Linux OS I used in my life and windows users are NOT used the command prompt and are lazy and want 1-2 clicks how tos. But, one month in Ubuntu made me love it. It is surprisingly more user friendly than most people think and recommend it to all "Wanna stop hacking windowsers".

The one problem is how the old timers give explanations and try to help people with step by step command by command to fix one problem that will lead to another problem. Usually, most of my questions have been solved by 1-2 clicks. Drivers, Wine and other software.

My prime example of this problem: My laptop is n61jq, when 1st installed, dual screening wasnt working properly and looked in google for answers to the problem. Following these researches, installing proprietary drivers the system was always crashing and when I finally got it to work after a few reinstall, I was stuck with all the apps telling me that they didnt support my card because obviously, they thought my card was older. I havent been able to fix it. Until I found out that Ubuntu can update your drivers with one click to latest proprietary drivers taking care of everything else. That made me cry, so much hours and how tos tried for nothing.

Another example: Symbian links, everywhere I looked over the internet was telling us to use commands to create the link. I never got it to appear where I wanted. Until I found that right-clicking a file then "make link" then move the link to whatever folder I wanted it to go.

Those two examples are from tens of problems I encountered using Ubuntu, all solved with a few clicks. The only one I got to use commands was for Netflix Desktop.

Suggestion to old timers: try to put yourself at the newcomers' place when we have an issue. Don't crave on giving command lines to put in terminal when the the OS provides the 1 click solution that just doesnt popup in the face.

Suggestion to newcomers, think twice before entering command lines blindly, most of the time the solution is somewhere hidden in front of you.

Best regards to everyone.

[Sef]

Suggestion to old timers: try to put yourself at the newcomers' place when we have an issue. Don't crave on giving command lines to put in terminal when the the OS provides the 1 click solution that just doesnt popup in the face.

+1. For a newcomer, point and click is less intimidating.


Suggestion to newcomers, think twice before entering command lines blindly, most of the time the solution is somewhere hidden in front of you.

Copy and paste is the easiest way to input a command.

[ajgreeny]

The problem with giving a "one click" answer is that the "one click" needed to solve the problem will vary a lot depending on the version of ubuntu, xubuntu, kubuntu, or lubuntu that is being run by the questioner.

If an answer is given in command line manner, it will be the same whatever version of whichever of the ubuntu family you are using, so whilst I have some sympathy with your request, you, like many posters, do not say what your OS actually is, so it would be difficult to give you a simple "one click" answer; it would have to be many different answers.

[deadflowr]

I personally find gui's available for most of the stuff I do on a day to day basis.

However, in support forums and threads, help is easier by giving advice using the cli.

It's easier to write out, open terminal and put X-command, than it is writing out five lines of open X go to Y open Y find S go to X again, and then close Y now open C. Which tends to fall part when the problem having OP tells you they're running a different desktop.

And for the most part, commands are useful no matter the desktop, or lack thereof.

Eventually you'll find using the terminal not as a need but as a want.
You can do things quickly, in and out, using cli.

[oldos2er]

Suggestion to old timers: try to put yourself at the newcomers' place when we have an issue.

Of course we do, or try to. You've seen this already from the other answers, but here it is again: CLI is the lowest common denominator of interfaces. It's going to work the same (or mostly the same) across all flavors of Ubuntu; whereas GUI instructions depend on which environment both the one asking for help and the one providing it are using.

Think of it as a tool, one of many available to all users. In my opinion, one's experience of Linux, no matter which GUI you use, can be improved by having some understanding of terminal commands--particularly when troubleshooting.

[kurt18947]

I agree with copy/paste working across GUI and distro. There is one HUGE caution about copy/paste though. Use caution about the source of the commands. Here is a recent thread about using a special technique to copy/paste more than the user knows or expects.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2133304&highlight=span

It could be used to install malware. Any toxic commands will be dealt with swiftly once found here or at askubuntu.com. The same might not be true at other sites.

[snowpine]

...and looked in google for answers to the problem...

This was your biggest mistake. Google is a search engine that blindly returns the most popular/relevant pages for your search terms. There is no guarantee that the pages Google finds will be accurate, helpful, or trustworthy in any way.

Rather, I recommend you use the following trustworthy resources:

http://help.ubuntu.com
http://wiki.ubuntu.com

If you follow trusted, official tutorials/how-to's, then you will have a pleasant Ubuntu experience. If you follow random advice from some random guy's blog, then you are rolling the dice. :)

If you are thinking of doing something to your computer, but aren't quite sure what to do, then post a thread here on http://ubuntuforums.org and wait 24-48 hours. Don't just blindly follow the first answer (there is no IQ test to post on ubuntuforums ;)) but rather give the experts some time weigh in, and then choose the solution that seems most sensible. Here is some advice how to ask questions in such a way to get the best answers:

http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Finally, here is the only unofficial Ubuntu tutorial site that I strongly and enthusiastically recommend:

http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/

As for GUI vs. CLI, remember that we do not have the power to come through the internet and wiggle your mouse. But we can give you terminal commands that you can copy & paste. If I tell you "scroll here, click there, check this box, click the blue button" etc. then there is a risk my instructions will be ambiguous, or you will have a different graphical environment/skin/theme, and therefore you will get an unpredictable result, but I I tell you "copy & paste the following command into the terminal" then we can be reasonably confident of the outcome. Furthermore, I do not use Unity (Ubuntu's default desktop environment) so if I am not allowed to give CLI solutions, then I no longer share my experience (5 years and 7,500 posts on these forums) with Ubuntu users. :)

[MadmanRB]

Yeah cli can be intimidating, but when most command line solutions work its really a non issue.

[lykwydchykyn]

Another example: Symbian links, everywhere I looked over the internet was telling us to use commands to create the link. I never got it to appear where I wanted. Until I found that right-clicking a file then "make link" then move the link to whatever folder I wanted it to go.


I think you mean "symbolic link" here. Symbian is an old phone OS.

[cariboo]

The biggest problem is mindset, Windows users are used to doing things a certain way, that may just not work when using a Linux distribution. As easy as using Ubuntu and it's derivatives have come to be, there is still a bit of a learning curve, as we do things differently.

The one main difference is not having to download and install programs from random web sites, almost everything you need is available via the Software Centre, some of the packages may be a bit dated, but updated version are almost always available via ppa's (personal package archives) on Launchpad.

The above paragraph may seem to you to be just techno-babble, but as you learn to use Ubuntu, you will find that things are much easier to do than the equivalent in Windows.

Disclaimer I stopped supporting Windows systems about a year ago, and have probably forgotten more than most people have ever learned about Windows.

[mastablasta]

another benefit of command line is it will automaticly throw out any error messages that can be used for troubleshooting.

besides marking text and then clicking middle button in temrinal is two or 3 clicks. enter then runs the commands and all is done.

a good basic resource on how things are done in linux can be Ubuntu manual.

[3rdalbum]

I usually try to give GUI instructions, actually. But I know a lot of people give command-line answers.

I find the biggest problems are when people give instructions using outdated information, and when people don't read the first post properly before responding and end off misleading the poster.

Another problem is when people forget that new users are new! Telling someone to open /etc/apt/sources.list and make some manual edits is fine when you're talking to an old hand, but terrible when talking to a newb; firstly it gives them the erroneous impression that you need the terminal to install software, and secondly they are quite likely to mistype into their sources.list and break their package manager. Why tell a new user to manually edit sources.list, when the GUI is available and has safety features to prevent most kinds of package manager breakage?

[lykwydchykyn]

Why tell a new user to manually edit sources.list, when the GUI is available and has safety features to prevent most kinds of package manager breakage?

That's a fine point, but you have to realize that some of us "old hands" haven't bothered with these GUIs in *years*. We don't even have some of them installed on our systems. I see someone posting with a problem, chances are I know how to fix it; but I don't know the "newbie-safe" method of fixing it. I have the knowledge I have, and I can offer only that. If involving config files or the terminal makes it unacceptable to someone, they're free to ignore it I guess.

[CharlesA]

That's a fine point, but you have to realize that some of us "old hands" haven't bothered with these GUIs in *years*. We don't even have some of them installed on our systems.

That's why I stay out of General Help. :p I usually just lurk in the security or server areas.

Of course, with that being said, I'm not running a GUI, so I don't really know what instructions someone would need to do a task via the gui, unless it's hitting ctrl + alt + t...

[GameX2]

The one main difference is not having to download and install programs from random web sites, almost everything you need is available via the Software Centre, some of the packages may be a bit dated, but updated version are almost always available via ppa's (personal package archives) on Launchpad.


This is seriously awesome. I reinstalled Ubuntu about 3 times, including installing an newer version, and it's astounding how quick the procedure is.
I just have to launch an automated installation script, and in 15 minutes, all my softwares are installed!

Even better, all the configuration of the softwares are stored on my Home partition, so I don't have to loose hours reconfiguring all my softwares. It's also amazing that even the Desktop configuration are saved to Home, such as Keyboard shortcuts, startup applications, etc.

I found it great, when I was still a begginner on Ubuntu 11.04, when I was asking for help here. I only needed to copy and paste a command (Back then, I admit, I didn't knew much of what I was pasting. XD), copy the output, and post it here. Quicker. :)

[lykwydchykyn]

That's why I stay out of General Help. :p I usually just lurk in the security or server areas.


Same here. Don't you think it's a tad tragic, though, that there are people not getting answers because users like us have been discouraged from sharing our knowledge? Not that I don't sleep at night... :)

[Kojak Peg]

As a windows user, I too am reluctant to use the command line, and it's been ages since I even used dos. So I'm just not comfortable doing it. Since converting to liunx I am interested in leaning the command line. However, that will be for a much later time. That may seem, to a linux user, strange, or a fixed mind set, but there it is.

So I always prefer the 1-2 click method to the command line method. However, as pureliane said it is difficult to find 1-2 click explanations. So I've been messing around on my distro, to see how everything works, from the 1-2 click point of view. And up till now I've found lots of pathways. However, It would be great to have a ubuntu for idiots or a gnome for idiots, which concentrated on using the mouse to execute commands. Then at least you could set up your linux distro, use it, become comfortable with it and then learn the command line. As it is most help is explained using the command line, which is believe it or not very intimidating

[deadflowr]

The biggest problem is mindset, Windows users are used to doing things a certain way, that may just not work when using a Linux distribution. As easy as using Ubuntu and it's derivatives have come to be, there is still a bit of a learning curve, as we do things differently.

The one main difference is not having to download and install programs from random web sites, almost everything you need is available via the Software Centre, some of the packages may be a bit dated, but updated version are almost always available via ppa's (personal package archives) on Launchpad.

The above paragraph may seem to you to be just techno-babble, but as you learn to use Ubuntu, you will find that things are much easier to do than the equivalent in Windows.

Disclaimer I stopped supporting Windows systems about a year ago, and have probably forgotten more than most people have ever learned about Windows.

Agreed. The only package I ever install outside of the repos or with a PPA is google-chrome.
Which is funny, because I can even install Microsoft's skype through the repos.
Maybe someday, Google will become a canonical partner and installing chrome via the software center will become the norm.

[snowpine]

I recently started a new job in an (ugh) Windows-only organization. We use the Windows command line all the time. GUI vs. CLI is not a Windows vs. Linux debate, but rather simply a preference of work-style.

[MadmanRB]

I recently started a new job in an (ugh) Windows-only organization. We use the Windows command line all the time. GUI vs. CLI is not a Windows vs. Linux debate, but rather simply a preference of work-style.

Ugh command line in windows is terrible compared to linux.
No copy and paste even!

[goldshirt9]

nice accurate post, welcome to the world of linux