Disappointed by Ubuntu 12.10 just like windows 8

[saud]

Ubuntu is also like windows 8 now. I just installed and tried ubuntu and found out there is no start menu. just a big dash home button. I thought microsoft is dead with windows 8 with their ugly start screen, and now it seems like same thing with ubuntu. People everywhere on the internet are talking about moving to linux from windows 8 but its better to stick with windows 7 until 2020.

[Elfy]

Thread moved to Ubuntu, Linux and OS Chat.

Fortunately you're not the first with that thought.

Luckily for us there's more than one way to skin a cat - if you look about you might find there are other desktop environments available.

[MadmanRB]

Try kubuntu :D

[deadflowr]

Thread moved to Ubuntu, Linux and OS Chat.

Fortunately you're not the first with that thought.

Luckily for us there's more than one way to skin a cat - if you look about you might find there are other desktop environments available.

+1

Unlike windows 8, we have at our disposal, a large cache of desktop choices.

If the simplicity of Unity doesn't fit your mood, nothing is stopping you from changing it out.

[gnugen]

If you want get something that resembles windows, you can get Zorin OS or install these desktop environments:

Lubuntu Desktop(LXDE spin)
LXDE
KDE

However, you probably will not get a windows styling of the start menu but you will get a start menu.

By the way, another thing I should point out is that for these Desktop Environments you will not be able to use the windows key to open the start menu.

[ianp5a]

Yes there was a mass migration away from the big fat Dash. Many went to Mint. I landed on Kubuntu. Where you still get the benefits of Ubuntu quality.

But users moving to different distros is not the solution for Ubuntu. It has not benefited. A few tweaks and we could all come back.
Fix the Dash, like Windows is doing, by finally reinstating the Start menu. You will be able to put anything 'you' like on it. It is 'your' start menu. You will not need to go to the keyboard to search "every time" for them. And it gets out of your way when you are working unlike the Unity launcher.

[3rdalbum]

Ubuntu is also like windows 8 now. I just installed and tried ubuntu and found out there is no start menu. just a big dash home button. I thought microsoft is dead with windows 8 with their ugly start screen, and now it seems like same thing with ubuntu. People everywhere on the internet are talking about moving to linux from windows 8 but its better to stick with windows 7 until 2020.

You don't want to use an operating system just because it has a graphical applications menu instead of a textual one, no matter how good the rest of it is?

Your loss.

[ianp5a]

Clearly Microsoft think there is more to it than being a graphical or textual difference.

[monkeybrain2012]

Yes there was a mass migration away from the big fat Dash. Many went to Mint. I landed on Kubuntu. Where you still get the benefits of Ubuntu quality.

But users moving to different distros is not the solution for Ubuntu. It has not benefited. A few tweaks and we could all come back.
Fix the Dash, like Windows is doing, by finally reinstating the Start menu. You will be able to put anything 'you' like on it. It is 'your' start menu. You will not need to go to the keyboard to search "every time" for them. And it gets out of your way when you are working unlike the Unity launcher.

I don't miss the "start menu", the dash is so much faster and more convenient. In fact if I use other distros Unity is one of the things I miss about Ubuntu ( I also like gnome-shell, and you can add a start menu addon, but I realize that I never use it)

You can install a menu in Unity, though I don't really see the point (just like I can't see the point to use one in Gnome-Shell)

https://launchpad.net/~diesch/+archive/testing

P.S. I did try Kubuntu on a separate partition, but I much prefer the dash to the menu.

[monkeybrain2012]

Yes there was a mass migration away from the big fat Dash. Many went to Mint. I landed on Kubuntu. Where you still get the benefits of Ubuntu quality.

But users moving to different distros is not the solution for Ubuntu. It has not benefited. A few tweaks and we could all come back.
Fix the Dash, like Windows is doing, by finally reinstating the Start menu. You will be able to put anything 'you' like on it. It is 'your' start menu. You will not need to go to the keyboard to search "every time" for them. And it gets out of your way when you are working unlike the Unity launcher.

I don't miss the "start menu" (and I do hate the Mint menu to try to look like XP), the dash is so much faster and more convenient. In fact when I use other distros Unity is one of the things I miss about Ubuntu ( I also like gnome-shell, and you can add a pretty menu with an addon, but I realize that I never use it)

You can install a gnome2 style classic menu on Unity, though I don't really see the point (just like I can't see the point to use one in Gnome-Shell)

https://launchpad.net/~diesch/+archive/testing

P.S. I did try Kubuntu on a separate partition, but I much prefer the dash to the menu.

[ianp5a]

I don't miss the "start menu"
Yes. But desktop designers have to take into consideration all different types of users. Some are happy with the dash. Some are happy using the command line only. Some prefer using the mouse.

[mastablasta]

Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu etc... none look like Windows 8

[MadmanRB]

as does Ubuntu, seriously Unity is NOTHING like windows8, dont know what the OP is on about

[monkeybrain2012]

Yes. But desktop designers have to take into consideration all different types of users. Some are happy with the dash. Some are happy using the command line only. Some prefer using the mouse.

So you can install a classic menu one apt-get away, see my link. Or you can always use another DE. No one forces you to use Unity. It is NOT like Win8 because you have so many choices. Kubuntu comes with the kickoff (?) menu which is not quite like your classic XP style start menu. No one complains about that because you can easily change it. Same idea here.

[ianp5a]

I replied to your post where you, personally, seem to get on with Unity. Whereas I think it is important that Unity is suitable for many different user types. Which is where it has been currently having problems.

[craig10x]

as does Ubuntu, seriously Unity is NOTHING like windows8, dont know what the OP is on about

Exactly...UNITY is NOTHING like Windows 8...it's actually more like a mac...unity is a DOCK....it just happens to be on the left side (and can auto hide of course, which is how most of us use it)...
The top button (the dash as it is called) is just for searching for programs, apps, etc)...you primarily use the UNITY DOCK...what you do is place all favorite and frequently used apps on it for QUICK 1 Click Access...and for apps you rarely use...just use the "dash" button (search) on top to bring it up...

It also has a space saving "Global Menu" on top (again, just like a MAC)...

Simple, quick, easy to use, intuitive and nothing like the rather confusing, un-intuitive METRO (windows 8) experience at all!

By the way, you can shrink the size of the unity dock in the settings..i make mine 38 pixels and i think it looks better that way....the default icons are a bit on the large size, i think...
You should try it and use it with an open mind for a few weeks...you may be surprised how much you might like it a lot after a while...and then, if you don't...you have many alternatives, as they mentioned...

[llanitedave]

I replied to your post where you, personally, seem to get on with Unity. Whereas I think it is important that Unity is suitable for many different user types. Which is where it has been currently having problems.

I couldn't disagree more. Nobody can please everybody. That's why we have different religions, different political parties, different hair styles, different shoes...

Trying to generate too broad an appeal takes you to the Least Common Denominator, and that's just mediocrity for all.

I've settled on Kubuntu, which suits my style better for now, but that's not a criticism of Unity. Unity is designed for a fairly specific demographic, one which Canonical has calculated (gambled?) will appeal to a "broad enough" spectrum of users, and ultimately increase their revenue. That's very difficult with a free product, and I wish them complete success. Who knows, if 13.04 is as good as everyone says, I'll probably give Unity another try -- but I'll keep KDE also.

[MadmanRB]

Well to be fair to unity is that it sort of does have broad appeal, both mac and windows users would feel at home with it.
Its us tweakers who pull our hair out at unity, wishing it were not so locked down UI wise

[alan9800]

Exactly...UNITY is NOTHING like Windows 8...it's actually more like a mac...unity is a DOCK.......and Dash is very similar to Spotlight search window of OS X :) .

[MasterJimmy]

im still running 12.04 64 bit because apps like awn arent available on 12.10 (and yes ive tried enabling every repository i could find and even did a google search for a downloadable package but couldnt find anything that would work) i can deal with the unity interface and laking anyother option ive learned to adjust to it quite well, but what i want is to have the old 10.04 environment. how do i get it? the ideal config im shooting for is where i have both 10.04 as well as the 12.04 interface simultaneously if possible but my preference is the 10.04 interface . the rig i experiment on is a 32 bit dell d610 but from what ive seen the procedure wouldbe the same for 32 or 64 bit installs and im not really looking to frak my main rig.for now im running xp black edition in the dell long enough to get itunes so i can unlock and reset my ipod touch my ex facelocked on me out of spite. (i just use it for time killer games while im on the subway and record on the go clips for youtube)

[MadmanRB]

im still running 12.04 64 bit because apps like awn arent available on 12.10 (and yes ive tried enabling every repository i could find and even did a google search for a downloadable package but couldnt find anything that would work) i can deal with the unity interface and laking anyother option ive learned to adjust to it quite well, but what i want is to have the old 10.04 environment. how do i get it? the ideal config im shooting for is where i have both 10.04 as well as the 12.04 interface simultaneously if possible but my preference is the 10.04 interface . the rig i experiment on is a 32 bit dell d610 but from what ive seen the procedure wouldbe the same for 32 or 64 bit installs and im not really looking to frak my main rig.for now im running xp black edition in the dell long enough to get itunes so i can unlock and reset my ipod touch my ex facelocked on me out of spite. (i just use it for time killer games while im on the subway and record on the go clips for youtube)

You may want to try the xfce route.

[hfa2010]

im still running 12.04 64 bit because apps like awn arent available on 12.10 (and yes ive tried enabling every repository i could find and even did a google search for a downloadable package but couldnt find anything that would work) i can deal with the unity interface and laking anyother option ive learned to adjust to it quite well, but what i want is to have the old 10.04 environment. how do i get it? the ideal config im shooting for is where i have both 10.04 as well as the 12.04 interface simultaneously if possible but my preference is the 10.04 interface . the rig i experiment on is a 32 bit dell d610 but from what ive seen the procedure wouldbe the same for 32 or 64 bit installs and im not really looking to frak my main rig.for now im running xp black edition in the dell long enough to get itunes so i can unlock and reset my ipod touch my ex facelocked on me out of spite. (i just use it for time killer games while im on the subway and record on the go clips for youtube)
Did you ever tried to go into Software Channels and change the release option of an ppa to the previous one? i.e i have pcsx2 on my Raring with a ppa of quantal, just changing this. And it works because the dependencies are satisfied because it's newer. A little "adventure quest" on Ubuntu/Linux configurations/software and you realize why it's so configurable. I mean you could still upgrade to 13.04 and still use software that is "only supported on 12.04".

[lykwydchykyn]

I find it incomprehensible how people make this demand that either the default, out-of-the-box Ubuntu must be perfect for them, or else they're going to use Windows. What strange little fences people build around themselves.

[saud]

Debian 7 is coming in May and I ll be trying that. I wanted something simple and easy to use. It took me couple of hours to find all the applications menu in Ubuntu. I thought I had to remember the application name so that I can type it in the application search bar.

[lykwydchykyn]

Debian 7 is coming in May and I ll be trying that. I wanted something simple and easy to use. It took me couple of hours to find all the applications menu in Ubuntu. I thought I had to remember the application name so that I can type it in the application search bar.

Not that I would deter you from trying Debian, but there is nothing package-wise available in Debian that isn't available in Ubuntu. As a matter of fact, there are several desktop environments available in the ubuntu repos that won't be in Wheezy. Maybe you should heed the last few pages of advice and try some of them.

[monkeybrain2012]

I don't think Debian is "easier to use" than Ubuntu, maybe Wheezy is more stable, I don't know, but it seems that all softwares are very outdated. I am using SID with some packages from the experiemental repos. I think it is not more updated than Ubuntu + ppas but a lot more likely to have broken or unmet dependencies and hardware may not work ootb like Ubuntu (my wifi card, e.g) I don't mind doing the work (and I quite like gnome-shell) but "easier"? Not my experience so far (well I didn't really look at wheezy and sqeeze maybe those are easier to set up if your hardware is old and you don't mind outdated software, it seems that gnome2 is still supported in squeeze)

I saw that gnome 3.8 has just landed in experimental, I am not sure if I want to take the risk to install it yet. :)

[snowpine]

I find it incomprehensible how people make this demand that either the default, out-of-the-box Ubuntu must be perfect for them, or else they're going to use Windows. What strange little fences people build around themselves.

well said :)

[monkeybrain2012]

but there is nothing package-wise available in Debian that isn't available in Ubuntu. As a matter of fact, there are several desktop environments available in the ubuntu repos that won't be in Wheezy. Maybe you should heed the last few pages of advice and try some of them.

Yeah, Debian people don't like ppas, but IMO this is one of the best features of the Ubuntu ecosystem. It is a lot easier to find up to date and "unofficial" packages in Ubuntu than in Debian. I don't mind compiling but there are things I would rather not, like xorg-server and mesa, that kind of stuffs. In Ubuntu you can get the bleeding edge (which does improve graphic performance a lot on my Precise) with xorg-edgers or obaif ppa (ok, this is risky and I have got into problems before, but ppa-purge fixed them) , but you can't do this in Debian, not even with experimental (there are self compile instructions but very complex and kind of risky according to those who tried)

[saud]

Not that I would deter you from trying Debian, but there is nothing package-wise available in Debian that isn't available in Ubuntu. As a matter of fact, there are several desktop environments available in the ubuntu repos that won't be in Wheezy. Maybe you should heed the last few pages of advice and try some of them.

Where I can find tutorials to change the desktop environments in Ubuntu? I tried searching some articles using google and nothing changed when I restarted my computer.

[monkeybrain2012]

Where I can find tutorials to change the desktop environments in Ubuntu? I tried searching some articles using google and nothing changed when I restarted my computer.

I think you just install whatever DE (say xfce), logout and choose that DE to log into in the login screen, then next time when you login that would be the default.

[saud]

How can I install DE and where I can find them?

[dandroid13]

Maybe you should check this out: http://psychocats.net/ubuntu/
The "Playing Around" section.

[snowpine]

Where I can find tutorials to change the desktop environments in Ubuntu? I tried searching some articles using google and nothing changed when I restarted my computer.

Here is a good tutorial to install Xfce desktop environment, for example:

http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/xfce

The same general process applies to installing other DE's. :)

[codingman]

Fortunately, Linux gives you the oppurtunity to change. Try some other DE's or WM's. Right now I'm using i3-wm. Yesterday I was using jwm. Last weak I was using KDE. You are not stuck with Unity. You can also simply change your flavor of Ubuntu if you don't want to install a different WM or DE.

[ianp5a]

Yes the flexibility is great. But most complete newbies giving Linux a try for the first time will not get as far as finding solutions to their problems deep in some forum. And changing desktop environments is a daunting task for newbies, who will probably not realise that it is possible and will not know the terminology. They speak a completely different language to the "techies" they encounter in forums.
It is important, when you are rolling out a desktop environment, to pick the best defaults. Or make important options highly discoverable to get that "it just works" effect.

[codingman]

Sorry if I'm being some kind of jerk, but, what's so hard about changing DE's? All you need to do is:

1) Install the DE from the repositories (whether you use apt-get/dpkg or the Software Center).
2) Log out.
3) Select your DE of choice. (This depends on your DM, but the default on Ubuntu is LightDM, a fork of GDM. So all you need to do is press that Ubuntu icon that is near the login input and choose.)
4) Log in.

If you are using default Ubuntu, and its not so hard on other distros, either. You take the same process for using a WM, as they are practically the same.

[codingman]

How can I install DE and where I can find them?

You can find them in the repositories, so go to the software center, and search for a DE of choice (or try one out).
Here is a good list of DE's: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Desktop_Environment#List_of_desktop_environments
WM's are the same except that they are simpler and are less resource hungry.

After you have installed a DE, log out and select the DE that you want by pressing the small button that is in the corner of the login box, and select the DE that you have installed.

[ianp5a]

You have just used a load of terms that newbies have have never heard of before. Their first use of the friendly software manager will be an adventure. Nowhere, in the default interface of Ubuntu is there an explanation of what different desktop environments actually are. And whether they can "get back" if something goes wrong.

Yes it may be simple to actually do. But people leaving the comfort of their old OS are desperate for everything just to work. The last thing they are going to do is "mess" with it. If anything doesn't "seem" to work it is highly frustrating and can take a huge amount of searching the internet, being "helped" by nerds who like to do things the hard way. They will go screaming back to where they came from and warn others how user unfriendly Linux is.

Actually most Linux users have never changed the installed DE. Changing the complete distro is usually the way. If you think of a DE from a newbies point of view, you will soon see the problems they have, and the size of the challenge facing DE developers.

[ibjsb4]

Has Gnome-Classic been mention? If you still have Unity (ubuntu) installed you can add it and choose at login by clicking on the login icon.

In terminal: (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UsingTheTerminal#Starting_a_Terminal)

sudo apt-get install gnome-session-fallback

[codingman]

You have just used a load of terms that newbies have have never heard of before. Their first use of the friendly software manager will be an adventure. Nowhere, in the default interface of Ubuntu is there an explanation of what different desktop environments actually are.

There really doesn't need to be. I think the name says it all, and plus: I think there is a reason Wiki's were created.

[codingman]

Yes it may be simple to actually do. But people leaving the comfort of their old OS are desperate for everything just to work. If it doesn't it is highly frustrating and can take a huge amount of searching the internet, being "helped" by nerds who like to do things the hard way. The last thing they are going to do is "mess" with it. They will go screaming back to where they came from and warn others what a heap of **** Linux is. Actually most Linux users have never changed the installed DE. Changing the complete distro is usually the way.

I believe that the way that I just explained was not the hard way.

They do not need to change DE's to have things to work.

Let them go screaming back, why should we care? I personally think that Linux is better without mass population, it stays uncluttered. Just certain people want to make the switch, and I think there is a reason for that.

[ianp5a]

Most won't even get as far as a wiki.

[ianp5a]

Let them go screaming back, why should we care? I personally think that Linux is better without mass population, ..

<facepalm> Luckily Canonical don't think that way.

[codingman]

Why wouldn't they? you and I apparently did.

[codingman]

<facepalm> Luckily Canonical don't think that way.

Luckily? Why? Would you like noobs running around like a stampede? Why, If that happened, I would jump back to Windows!

[ianp5a]

If you don't know what a desktop environment is, then you probably don't know that you can install a new one and then you would not go searching for information about it. You would also not know if it is the solution to your problem.

I am not a casual user. I have a specific interest in User interfaces. And I only just recently tried it. And I was quite relieved when it worked. However, you will read that mixing Gnome and KDE DEs does have side effects. Now I've installed Kubntu directly which has cleared up a few anomalies.

One of the worst things about Linux, is the online support is mostly on a different plane to newbies.

>Would you like noobs running around like a stampede?
Canonical, like Microsoft, make more money with more users.

[codingman]

'tis in fact easier than going around and looking at 100+ posts on all different kinds of Windows forums. In the case of linux, you just search for the distro you use and, bam! You get the homepage of the distro. From there, you find the official forums. Use the search tool and you will find something relevent. If you do not, then search using your old pal Google, and you will definetely find something useful.

[prodigy_]

Actually most Linux users have never changed the installed DE.
And for a good reason. In theory switching to another DE is fine. But in practice it means you get a bunch of new issues *and* say goodbye to forum support at the same time. And solving everything on their own from scratch isn't everyone's idea of fun.

[deadflowr]

And for a good reason. In theory switching to another DE is fine. But in practice it means you get a bunch of new issues *and* say goodbye to forum support at the same time. And solving everything on their own from scratch isn't everyone's idea of fun.

Why would forum support suddenly disappear because you decided to install a different DE?

[Tamlynmac]

prodigy_
And for a good reason. In theory switching to another DE is fine. But in practice it means you get a bunch of new issues *and* say goodbye to forum support at the same time. And solving everything on their own from scratch isn't everyone's idea of fun.

To a certain extent, I totally agree with prodigy_.

However, I would add a note to those Windows user that have no desire to learn beyond Windows and love the bloat - Please do us a favor and STAY THERE. Linux is growing and like anything in a state of growth, it will experience growing pains. The last thing it needs is users who have no desire to learn or help it improve, simply expecting it to be a more functional Windows clone.

I'll never get it. Complain about Windows, then come to Linux and complain you're going back to Windows. :confused: Perhaps, some just enjoy complaining because they get attention or have an agenda. Logic might suggest we ignore those who complain about Linux not being an XP or Win7 clone and focus on those users who truly wish to make the transition. Windows users trying Linux, should keep in mind that Linux is not now or ever should be - a Windows clone. Then ask yourself, why are you searching for a replacement if all you want is a more functional clone? Complain to MS or go to a Windows site and tell them your dissatisfied with their product. Advise them how to change it and I'll bet you'll really enjoy those responses. :wink:

My point is, stop complaining unless your willing to learn, participate and become part of the community in an effort to advance Linux. Then instead of complaining, get involved in solutions. Or, one can pay to be led by the nose and have it doled out based on what one company believes is best for the masses. I've always believed that competition inspires.

Just my 2 cents

[prodigy_]

Why would forum support suddenly disappear because you decided to install a different DE?
/sigh Because asking a question doesn't mean you'll get a satisfactory answer. Support often relies on being able to reproduce an issue (or knowing the solution from experience).


However, I would add a note to those Windows user that have no desire to learn beyond Windows and love the bloat - Please do us a favor and STAY THERE.
Now that's not a nice attitude. :) I can use or manage common workstation and server operating systems pretty much across the board including *BSD, Solaris and NetWare. Yet I write these words from a Windows desktop. I dislike Microsoft and have no love for Windows and other closed source software either. But Windows is good enough for most (if not all) end-user tasks, there's no denying it.

[deadflowr]

/sigh Because asking a question doesn't mean you'll get a satisfactory answer. Support often relies on being able to reproduce an issue (or knowing the solution from experience).

But that's true for any question.

[codingman]

However, I would add a note to those Windows user that have no desire to learn beyond Windows and love the bloat - Please do us a favor and STAY THERE. Linux is growing and like anything in a state of growth, it will experience growing pains. The last thing it needs is users who have no desire to learn or help it improve, simply expecting it to be a more functional Windows clone.


+1

[codingman]

/sigh Because asking a question doesn't mean you'll get a satisfactory answer. Support often relies on being able to reproduce an issue (or knowing the solution from experience).


So, you're saying that certain DE's are more popular than others? Or are you just playing the role of Captain Obvious?

[codingman]

Now that's not a nice attitude. :) I can use or manage common workstation and server operating systems pretty much across the board including *BSD, Solaris and NetWare. Yet I write these words from a Windows desktop. I dislike Microsoft and have no love for Windows and other closed source software either. But Windows is good enough for most (if not all) end-user tasks, there's no denying it.

It's not a nice attitude, but it's the truth! Linux won't be able to handle people that don't want to help or people that don't have respect for what developers do! If it's good enough for end-user software, then why are you contradicting yourself by not agreeing with the fact that some people should stay with windows and others not?

[Sef]

Posts are not following the CoC and off-topic, so locked.