K.Mandla
July 11th, 2006, 09:08 PM
I'm engaged in a tete-a-tete with eBay over a listing I posted for a used laptop with Xubuntu installed. I made the mistake of mentioning the fact that it has a legitimate Window 2000 serial number, then made an even bigger blunder by putting the phrase "Win2K serial" in the auction title.
Naturally, the 'bots or whatnot that scour descriptions looking for pirated material flagged my auction, and it was terminated -- with extreme prejudice. (The auction fees were refunded, though.)
Of course, in a mild state of rage I emailed eBay and shook my finger at them. Interestingly, the part that tipped the scales in favor of dismissing the auction was, apparently, this paragraph.
The operating system is installed for demonstration purposes only, so you can be sure you have a working laptop when it arrives. It is not intended for use, and should be replaced or rebuilt when the computer arrives. Most people aren't familiar with Linux, and so it might be fun to mess with for a while, but I don't offer technical support for it. I installed it because I happen to prefer it, it's better for troubleshooting hardware and because I don't have the patience to wait an hour and a half for Win2K to install, then reboot, download updates, install those updates, reboot, download drivers, install drivers, reboot, install antivirus programs, reboot, install spyware scanners, reboot ... and so forth. If you prefer Windows, you'll have to install it for yourself. The machine has a valid Win2K serial, and you can use it if you're willing to take the time to put it on there.
I thought that fairly self-explanatory, but in my polite (but obviously prefab) e-mail from ebay, they said this.
Your listing stated: "...The operating system is installed for demonstration purposes only ... It is not intended for use, and should be replaced or rebuilt when the computer arrives...", which violates a policy. Please review the applicable policy at the end of this message.
To review applicable policy, please visit:
REPLICA, COUNTERFEIT ITEMS AND UNAUTHORIZED COPIES: This policy states, in part: "...unauthorized copies (such as copies of software programs, video games, music albums, movies, television programs, or photographs) are not permitted on eBay. Unauthorized copies include (but are not limited to) copies that are pirated, duplicated, backed-up or bootlegged. It is illegal to sell unauthorized copies of media...".
Guideline
- If the product you are selling bears the name or logo of a company, but it wasn't made or endorsed by that company, don't list it on eBay.
Examples of items that may not be listed on eBay:
- Replacement parts for an HP® printer which use HP's parts number and name, but were not made by HP
- Pirated copies of video games
- VHS, CD-R , or DVD-R copies of television programs taped off of television
- "Backup" or "archival" copies of software programs
- Pirated copies of music
- "Bootleg" recordings of live music performances
- "Home video" versions of a movie still in theaters
- Software loaded onto a hard drive that is not being sold with the original media (disks, manuals, etc.)
- CD-Rs containing scanned pages from a book, magazine, manual or other copyrighted written materials that were not written by you
Additional Information:
Since the sale of counterfeit items, unauthorized replicas and unauthorized copies is prohibited by law sellers may not list these items on eBay.
"Oh," I thought. "I must have run into an eBay censor who doesn't know what Linux is."
This was my reply.
Thanks for the reply. I see now how the confusion crept in, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it.
I should have been more clear in the description. The installed software is Xubuntu Linux, which is free and open source. There are no licensing restrictions for that operating system on that computer.
This is one of the reasons I put Linux on the computer: Not only is it free for duplication and use, but I don't have to worry about the hassles of working with a Microsoft product, licensure agreements, etc.
I described it as "for demonstration purposes only" because I can't take the time to offer technical support on a secondhand laptop, but I want the winner to be sure that it is 100 percent working when he/she opens the box. I fully expect the winning bidder to erase the hard drive when the computer arrives, since Linux fans are a minority.
I mention the Windows 2000 serial number in the auction because I know some people prefer Windows. It is my understanding that if they have an original installation disc for Windows 2000, they can install Windows without violating the EULA, since the number assigned to the laptop is present on the underside.
Furthermore, I don't think it would be proper for me to install Windows 2000 on that machine, then sell it. I think it would be slightly unethical for me to agree to Microsoft's EULA on behalf of the winning bidder, and I can't complete the installation without acknowledging the EULA. That means any system I mail out would be incomplete and require attention, and I run the risk of a disgruntled buyer.
So from my perspective, the decision to accept Microsoft's EULA has to be made by the buyer, when the computer arrives.
In short, as I see it, Linux on that machine is the best option. It is in the interest of the winner to 1) have a working and functional operating system when the computer arrives; 2) to have a free and open operating system that does not imply a pre-agreed EULA; and 3) have a legitimate serial number assigned to the machine, if they choose to install Windows 2000.
Either way, I appreciate your help with this matter. As you can see by my feedback and business history, I try to be an honest seller and buyer. I enjoy selling things on ebay and I appreciate that you've taken the time to help.
By the way, I plan to repost the auction tomorrow, with an edited description that makes it clear what operating system is installed, and why. I see that my fees for the auction were refunded; I appreciate that. I look forward to working with you folks in the future.
Cheers!
(me)
What do you think? Any suggestions? Did I make a decent case?
Personally, I have no axe to grind with eBay, since all they're doing is sweating under Ballmer's thumb. And really, at this rate, I can afford to sell the laptop with a blank hard drive and let the customer sort it out. But it seemed like a good opportunity to show someone Linux, and avoid some of the issues I mentioned.
Naturally, the 'bots or whatnot that scour descriptions looking for pirated material flagged my auction, and it was terminated -- with extreme prejudice. (The auction fees were refunded, though.)
Of course, in a mild state of rage I emailed eBay and shook my finger at them. Interestingly, the part that tipped the scales in favor of dismissing the auction was, apparently, this paragraph.
The operating system is installed for demonstration purposes only, so you can be sure you have a working laptop when it arrives. It is not intended for use, and should be replaced or rebuilt when the computer arrives. Most people aren't familiar with Linux, and so it might be fun to mess with for a while, but I don't offer technical support for it. I installed it because I happen to prefer it, it's better for troubleshooting hardware and because I don't have the patience to wait an hour and a half for Win2K to install, then reboot, download updates, install those updates, reboot, download drivers, install drivers, reboot, install antivirus programs, reboot, install spyware scanners, reboot ... and so forth. If you prefer Windows, you'll have to install it for yourself. The machine has a valid Win2K serial, and you can use it if you're willing to take the time to put it on there.
I thought that fairly self-explanatory, but in my polite (but obviously prefab) e-mail from ebay, they said this.
Your listing stated: "...The operating system is installed for demonstration purposes only ... It is not intended for use, and should be replaced or rebuilt when the computer arrives...", which violates a policy. Please review the applicable policy at the end of this message.
To review applicable policy, please visit:
REPLICA, COUNTERFEIT ITEMS AND UNAUTHORIZED COPIES: This policy states, in part: "...unauthorized copies (such as copies of software programs, video games, music albums, movies, television programs, or photographs) are not permitted on eBay. Unauthorized copies include (but are not limited to) copies that are pirated, duplicated, backed-up or bootlegged. It is illegal to sell unauthorized copies of media...".
Guideline
- If the product you are selling bears the name or logo of a company, but it wasn't made or endorsed by that company, don't list it on eBay.
Examples of items that may not be listed on eBay:
- Replacement parts for an HP® printer which use HP's parts number and name, but were not made by HP
- Pirated copies of video games
- VHS, CD-R , or DVD-R copies of television programs taped off of television
- "Backup" or "archival" copies of software programs
- Pirated copies of music
- "Bootleg" recordings of live music performances
- "Home video" versions of a movie still in theaters
- Software loaded onto a hard drive that is not being sold with the original media (disks, manuals, etc.)
- CD-Rs containing scanned pages from a book, magazine, manual or other copyrighted written materials that were not written by you
Additional Information:
Since the sale of counterfeit items, unauthorized replicas and unauthorized copies is prohibited by law sellers may not list these items on eBay.
"Oh," I thought. "I must have run into an eBay censor who doesn't know what Linux is."
This was my reply.
Thanks for the reply. I see now how the confusion crept in, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it.
I should have been more clear in the description. The installed software is Xubuntu Linux, which is free and open source. There are no licensing restrictions for that operating system on that computer.
This is one of the reasons I put Linux on the computer: Not only is it free for duplication and use, but I don't have to worry about the hassles of working with a Microsoft product, licensure agreements, etc.
I described it as "for demonstration purposes only" because I can't take the time to offer technical support on a secondhand laptop, but I want the winner to be sure that it is 100 percent working when he/she opens the box. I fully expect the winning bidder to erase the hard drive when the computer arrives, since Linux fans are a minority.
I mention the Windows 2000 serial number in the auction because I know some people prefer Windows. It is my understanding that if they have an original installation disc for Windows 2000, they can install Windows without violating the EULA, since the number assigned to the laptop is present on the underside.
Furthermore, I don't think it would be proper for me to install Windows 2000 on that machine, then sell it. I think it would be slightly unethical for me to agree to Microsoft's EULA on behalf of the winning bidder, and I can't complete the installation without acknowledging the EULA. That means any system I mail out would be incomplete and require attention, and I run the risk of a disgruntled buyer.
So from my perspective, the decision to accept Microsoft's EULA has to be made by the buyer, when the computer arrives.
In short, as I see it, Linux on that machine is the best option. It is in the interest of the winner to 1) have a working and functional operating system when the computer arrives; 2) to have a free and open operating system that does not imply a pre-agreed EULA; and 3) have a legitimate serial number assigned to the machine, if they choose to install Windows 2000.
Either way, I appreciate your help with this matter. As you can see by my feedback and business history, I try to be an honest seller and buyer. I enjoy selling things on ebay and I appreciate that you've taken the time to help.
By the way, I plan to repost the auction tomorrow, with an edited description that makes it clear what operating system is installed, and why. I see that my fees for the auction were refunded; I appreciate that. I look forward to working with you folks in the future.
Cheers!
(me)
What do you think? Any suggestions? Did I make a decent case?
Personally, I have no axe to grind with eBay, since all they're doing is sweating under Ballmer's thumb. And really, at this rate, I can afford to sell the laptop with a blank hard drive and let the customer sort it out. But it seemed like a good opportunity to show someone Linux, and avoid some of the issues I mentioned.