Ubuntu 12.04 LTS & Unity: Ubuntu's "Win8?"

[JSeymour]

Got a "new"ish Dell machine. Decided to put 12.04 LTS on it. Figured if I disliked Unity as much as I was led to believe I would, I could always switch to XFCE or Mate.

I gave it the old college try. Really I did. But it isn't going to work for me. Tomorrow the 12.04 LTS install is getting overwritten with 10.04 LTS. I did hate Unity every bit as much as I feared I would. Nor was Mate the answer. (With all due respect to their efforts: Mate is not Gnome 2.) From what I've read of XFCE: I won't be happy with that, either, so I'm not even going to waste more time. And those are just high points of my dissatisfaction with 12.04 LTS. (I won't bore you with the details of my several hours of messing with stuff, today. I've got a running, functional system, but we hates it.)

12.04 LTS server will go on new/upgraded server installs, but, for desktops (I have three of them): I'll stay with 10.04 LTS as long as humanly possible--to the point of using alternate repos or downloading tarballs, building and installing into /usr/local/..., if I have to.

And if Ubuntu hasn't regained its sanity by the time it's no longer feasible for me to do that, anymore, I guess I'll have to find a new distro.

What you did with Unity on 12.04 LTS, Ubuntu, was completely, totally wrong for my needs. As much as it surprises me to say it, I think I'd almost rather MS-Win7, and I utterly detest MS-Win. Please, please, PLEASE, Ubuntu, reconsider your direction on desktop/laptop system window/desktop managers.

Jim

[carl4926]

Given your feeling on this
No harm in asking: Did you try Mint Mate (I install it for quite a few customers) I have to say it's as good as Gnome 2 ever was IMO, and looks better too.

[ManamiVixen]

Carl, he said he tried it and hated it. In fact, he seems to hate every desktop other than Gnome 2 apparently. My advice seymour, let go. Gnome 2 is dead and all linux desktops spare Cinnamon, KDE, LXDE, and XFCE are moving to a brand new paradigm. You need to get with the times and let go of the past.

Also, MATE IS Gnome 2. Just with a name change and some reworking for GTK3. Yes it looks odd, but that is because it's like trying to keep a dieing dog alive by attaching still living limbs. In the end, it still dies. And be aware when Ubuntu 10.04 Desktop reaches EOL, apt will stop working. You will no longer be able to install anything or update. It will be severed and the only solution is to reroute all PPA's in 10.04 to the Archive PPA which is not maintained is is merely for archival purposes. but is compatible with APT.

[carl4926]

Carl, he said he tried it and hated it.Correct

I did see that.

Just my experience prodding me - In that I have tried a few Mate incarnations. And Mint is light years in front. It really looks good and is very snappy.

Fubuntu have a gnome 2 incarnation

[JSeymour]

Carl, I'm going to assume, from reading the Mint and other forums, that Mate on Mint will be similar to, if not identical to, Mate on Ubuntu. If so: Non-starter. (Maybe after Mate's had some time to mature?) Besides: With most of the rest of my servers and desktops running Ubuntu, a firewall running FBSD, and a special-purpose server running RHEL6 (I had no choice): I'm not particularly fond of the idea of adding a fourth distro to the mix. (Eh, make that fifth. I've still got some legacy Solaris boxen, too.) But thanks for the suggestion, nonetheless.

MV: Be that as it may: I can stick with 10.04 LTS Desktop until that time comes, so that's what I'll do. When the time comes that I'm forced to make a change: Then I'll make that change. I can guarantee you it will not involve Unity, or any other attempt at a "unified" desktop/laptop/tablet/phone/wristwatch/eyeglasses/whatever "experience." In any event: I'm not particularly interested in arguing the point. Nor am I particularly interested in being lectured on how I need to "get with the times and let go of the past." So, and I mean this with all due respect: Please be so kind as to put a sock in it. Thank you.

Jim

[carl4926]

This is Mint Mate on my eeepc
http://www.imagebam.com/image/d0862a245160032


similar to, if not identical to, Mate on UbuntuNo

[JSeymour]

This is Mint Mate on my eeepc
http://www.imagebam.com/image/d0862a245160032

No
Very well. Thanks for the input, Carl. Perhaps I'll give Mint a try on the next go-around. Right now I need to get that desktop up & running fairly quickly, and 10.04 LTS is a known quantity. (Whatever I do, I'll eventually transition all my servers and desktops over to it.)

Jim

[carl4926]

Very well. Thanks for the input, Carl. Perhaps I'll give Mint a try on the next go-around. Right now I need to get that desktop up & running fairly quickly, and 10.04 LTS is a known quantity. (Whatever I do, I'll eventually transition all my servers and desktops over to it.)

Jim

No worries
Mint 13 is the LTS version BTW. It's been rock solid since I installed it.

[mikodo]

I have Ubuntu 10.04 still as my primary DE, as I really like Gnome2 with Ubuntu, but as the DE addition is finally going to EOL very soon, I took the time to try Xubuntu and installed and configured Xubuntu 12.04 and found I like it even more than my Ubuntu 10.04 install. I really think you should read a few more objective comments on the DE or even take the time to try it before dismissing it . You may like me, with a little customizing find it to be very much to your liking too. It is very customizable!

With Xubuntu, Kubuntu and Lubuntu, you still have options.

FYI

;p

[andrew.46]

Unity is slowly becoming usable; just wait for Raring Ringtail before making any judgement. On my machine the early version of Raring + Unity is better than previous iterations...

[deadflowr]

There's always gnome-shell...

well at least until the gnome-devs completely implode.

[craig10x]

Also, unity is the kind of desktop environment that you need to use for a few weeks...i imagine you just took a quick look and said..."no way"....well, if you would adapt a positive attitude and stick with it for awhile, you might be really surprised...when unity first came out, many felt the way you did...but since then, many have turned around and now are big fans of it!

The best way to think of it is as dock that "auto hides" on the left side of the screen which is basically a "shortcuts taskbar"....you simply place all your favorites and frequently used apps on it (for quick "1 click" access) and for apps you use very infrequently, just open the "dash" (search button on top) and start typing the name of the app (say "terminal") and viola...there it is!

It also has a really neat desktop switcher and you can also reduce the unity dock's size (which i always do,i don't like the icons that big)....in appearance settings...

Also, it (unity) keeps getting improved by ubuntu...i am running 13.04 development and it's even better then ever...and unity is a heck of a lot more intuitive to use then windows 8....(quite frankly, THAT is a mess)

"Cairo Dock" session on ubuntu would make a nice option (if you prefer a dock on the bottom) i have used it and it's pretty cool, but eventually i decided to just go with the default (unity)...

Sounds like you never used anything with a "dock" (like a mac for example) or any of the docks available on linux....basically, you are just stuck in the old 2-panel old fashioned way of doing things...
Time to come into the 21st Century, my friend :D ;)

[3rdalbum]

Mate is almost identical to stock Gnome 2, but of course Ubuntu 10.04 didn't ship with stock Gnome 2. It had Ubuntu patches and other enhancements (notify odd, indicators etc)

If you can't live with Mate as close as it is to Gnome 2, or anything better than Mate, then you'll have to use Windows 7 until it goes out of support. Then sell your computer. Gnome 2 is not coming back.

It was abandoned by its developers over a year ago and they are very happy with their new Gnome. Ubuntu is happy with Unity and they will not revive a desktop that was widely derided for looking old-fashioned and being bunged up with legacy code and annoyingly buggy and inflexible.

[3rdalbum]

In June 2012 TechRepublic writer Jack
Wallen, who had been very critical of
early versions of Unity said “I’ve
noticed something lately. Since Ubuntu
12.04 was released, and I migrated
over from Linux Mint, I’m working
much more efficiently. This isn’t really
so much a surprise to me, but to
many of the detractors who assume
Unity a very unproductive desktop…
well, I can officially say they are
wrong… I realize that many people out
there have spurned Unity (I was one
of them for a long time), but the more
I use it, the more I realize that
Canonical really did their homework
on how to help end users more
efficiently interact with their
computers. Change is hard – period.
For many, the idea of change is such a
painful notion they wind up missing
out on some incredible advancements.
Unity is one such advancement.”

[andrew.46]

Interesting line breaks, what happened there?

[cariboo]

@JSeymour, since you don't seem to like any of the Ubuntu derivatives, and 10.04 desktop eols in May of this year. Why stick with Ubuntu? There are several other distributions that still use the old Gnome 2 interface. The only thing you will have to relearn is package management, everything else is the same.

[rrich1974]

come on guys.....it is been almost 2 years since the unity was launched. it is a very good DE and i use it on a CAD program and i can say that i have got the same productivity as in wind 7.
get over gnome 2....it is dead.

[tartalo]

Also, unity is the kind of desktop environment that you need to use for a few weeks...i imagine you just took a quick look and said..."no way"....well, if you would adapt a positive attitude and stick with it for awhile, you might be really surprised...when unity first came out, many felt the way you did...but since then, many have turned around and now are big fans of it!

People should stop using this "if you don't like it you should use it more" argument. I can't fully express my feelings about this argument because I am a gentleman and this forum has a code of conduct.

[vanadium]

People should stop using this "if you don't like it you should use it more" argument. I can't fully express my feelings about this argument because I am a gentleman and this forum has a code of conduct.
There is a point here. A change of habits can be difficult, and you cannot have a good definitive opinion when you did not at any time seriously attempted to use the product.

For those preferring the classical desktop, there remain plenty of modern, up to date opportunities: mate, cinnamon, xfce desktop, and even gnome 3, that now officially supports a classic mode.

We have more choice than ever.

[craig10x]

Thank you vanadium..the point i made IS a good argument...i can tell you from my own personal experience that i reacted much like he did when i first encountered unity..

In my case, my favorite desktop was NOT the old ubuntu's that had the 2 panels (never liked that no matter how long i worked with it) but rather the linux mint's style (or windows 7 style)
of lower panel only with a "slab style menu"....which is why for quite some time i migrated to Linux Mint because it was there by default and i didn't have to "customize" like i did on ubuntu to create that
desktop...

So, initially, can't say i totally hated unity but just didn't warm to it at all...because it was DIFFERENT...
After a few weeks i said...hmmm maybe i should spend a few weeks with it and have a more positive attitude (look at it like a new "adventure") and THEN see how i feel about it...

Well, after that time, i said...you know, this is pretty COOL...i can definitely work with this...and i have ever since ;)

So, i suggest he try it again for a few weeks with a more open mind...and if he still doesn't warm to it, then, as you mentioned, there are number of alternate desktops he can add to ubuntu without actually leaving ubuntu....

[samsom63]

Hi Mikodo,

How did you get the icons of opened programmes on the left of the top panel? It looks vert neat :) I just installed xubuntu 12.04 on my netbook and I'd like to have something similar. Thanks!

[carl4926]

Hi Mikodo,

How did you get the icons of opened programmes on the left of the top panel? It looks vert neat :) I just installed xubuntu 12.04 on my netbook and I'd like to have something similar. Thanks!
It's just a panel - you add to it as you please

[kungfupete]

An interesting and timely topic for me: As a long-time GNU/Linux & Ubuntu user, I also had some reservations about Unity when it first came out. Quite frankly, I didn't really like it, but I knew I would have to give it a couple weeks of serious use before rushing to judgment. Eventually I came to appreciate some things and dislike others, but overall it has grown on me. I'm also somewhat of a chronic tester of operating systems (I think this should be an officially recognized disease), so I am not stranger to all major and minor DE paradigms.

I recently tried the latest version of KDE, XFCE, LXDE and MATE (LMDE 2013 specifically). All good in their own ways, but I found myself craving the relative simplicity and functionality of Unity. I also upgraded my very solid Windows 7 Pro to Windows 8 as I figured it couldn't be that bad; Boy was I mistaken. I ran it almost exclusively for a full month, read many reviews and tutorials on how to get the most out of it, and in the end I was astounded at how dysfunctional it was. Even after installing Classic Shell, it just wasn't right.

Long story short: the DE experience is something personal to each one of us. We should respect everyone's opinions of the somewhat dramatic changes we have seen in the user interfaces we are so used to, and if it doesn't work for them --so be it. As many pointed out, the beauty with Ubuntu (or any other distro) a completely different DE is only an "apt-get" away and all have the ability to be tweaked and customized to our needs.

[mikodo]

Hi Mikodo,

How did you get the icons of opened programmes on the left of the top panel? It looks vert neat :) I just installed xubuntu 12.04 on my netbook and I'd like to have something similar. Thanks!
The top is the generic xfde panel, with icons for opening apps etc.

The bottom is Docky with more icons to open apps, BUT it will place an opened app on it when opened from terminal, appfinder, drop down application lists etc.

;p

[Ashtonford]

forget about mate, cinnamon is much better. If you dislike unity the best choice is to install mint 13 or 14 with cinnamon. Installing cinnamon over ubuntu isent the best way to go.

[thiebaude]

JSeymour-- I did sudo apt-get install gnome-session-fallback .I don't know if you tried that, but I like it alot.

[ikt]

No Unity is not Ubuntu's Win8.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

If that were the case it would have twice the desktop market share as all of linux combined in 1/4th the time and after a public shaming on every tech blog and website, we're still hoping for a release as successful as windows least successful release.

[iamkuriouspurpleoranj]

Probably the main difference with Windows 8 is that if you don't enjoy/appreciate Ubuntu w/ Unity, you have lots of free and easy to install alternatives both within the Ubuntu family and in the wider Linux community. Paradise is always only an ISO away. If you don't like Windows 8, you have the following choices: a) reinstall an older - and in many cases no-longer supported - version of Windows; b) join the pinkoes, hippies and communists, as well as the London Stock Exchange and the U.S. Army over on Linux; c) get a Mac.

[pinballwizard]

An interesting and timely topic for me: As a long-time GNU/Linux & Ubuntu user, I also had some reservations about Unity when it first came out. Quite frankly, I didn't really like it, but I knew I would have to give it a couple weeks of serious use before rushing to judgment. Eventually I came to appreciate some things and dislike others, but overall it has grown on me. I'm also somewhat of a chronic tester of operating systems (I think this should be an officially recognized disease), so I am not stranger to all major and minor DE paradigms.

I recently tried the latest version of KDE, XFCE, LXDE and MATE (LMDE 2013 specifically). All good in their own ways, but I found myself craving the relative simplicity and functionality of Unity. I also upgraded my very solid Windows 7 Pro to Windows 8 as I figured it couldn't be that bad; Boy was I mistaken. I ran it almost exclusively for a full month, read many reviews and tutorials on how to get the most out of it, and in the end I was astounded at how dysfunctional it was. Even after installing Classic Shell, it just wasn't right.

Long story short: the DE experience is something personal to each one of us. We should respect everyone's opinions of the somewhat dramatic changes we have seen in the user interfaces we are so used to, and if it doesn't work for them --so be it. As many pointed out, the beauty with Ubuntu (or any other distro) a completely different DE is only an "apt-get" away and all have the ability to be tweaked and customized to our needs.

I agree. I used KDE for years, and knew I was going to struggle when I moved to Unity. Funny thing is now when I work on one of my parents' KDE laptops, I am astounded at how clunky and terrible it is. I guess we change as people don't we.

I also used Win 8 for about half an hour when I got a new laptop the other day. Itlasted literally that long before I put 12.04.2 on it.

[3rdalbum]

Interesting line breaks, what happened there?

Copied and pasted from Wikipedia on my phone using Opera Mini. I guess it doesn't just reflow the text to fit on the screen, it must actually insert line breaks.

[samsom63]

The top is the generic xfde panel, with icons for opening apps etc.

The bottom is Docky with more icons to open apps, BUT it will place an opened app on it when opened from terminal, appfinder, drop down application lists etc.

;p

Thanks :)

[MrSlugInfinite]

I dislike Unity also. If it didn't make my system so unstable and crash often then I could possibly dig it. I since switched to xubuntu 12.04 and things are moving along swimmingly!

[craig10x]

I dislike Unity also. If it didn't make my system so unstable and crash often then I could possibly dig it. I since switched to xubuntu 12.04 and things are moving along swimmingly!

You might want to check out 13.04 when it gets released...i am running 13.04 development and there are constant updates and changes for it specifically...it's running darn good on my system...though i do have a fairly new computer here...actually, i never recall unity being unstable or crashing on 12.04 or 12.10 either...so for you perhaps it is hardware related...anyway, check out 13.04 when it comes out if you are curious...

[llanitedave]

I've got Kubuntu 12.10 on my laptop, with the hideable panel on the left side, kind of like Ubuntu's dock. I've got Xubuntu 12.10 on my desktop with Panel 1 hideable on the left side, kind of like Ubuntu's dock. I'll be installing Ubuntu 13.04 sooner or later, but in the meantime, I really don't understand the OP's whining. Might as well be all upset that you can't use a quill pen and an ink jar.

[MadmanRB]

MATE is pretty much it if you like Gome 2.
Otherwise Gnome 2 is dead, it has ceased to be, it has expired and gone to meet its maker! it's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! Its off the twig! It's kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-DESKTOP!!

[llanitedave]

It's just pinin' for the fjords.

[ernestj]

i used unity for a while then switched to Xubuntu and loved it for a long time. however, i missed some of the unity functions that i was not getting in Xubuntu and switched back to Ubuntu 12.04. i will admit I am a firm believer in unity and Ubuntu as a 13.04 user. i do not think that i could go back, as the unity features are very productive and i can not live without it. i was thinking to switch to elementary luna, but frankly unity is much better. I do not even think i would switch to mac. and windows 8 is out of the question.

[Paulgirardin]

And if Ubuntu hasn't regained its sanity by the time it's no longer feasible for me to do that, anymore, I guess I'll have to find a new distro.

What you did with Unity on 12.04 LTS, Ubuntu, was completely, totally wrong for my needs. As much as it surprises me to say it, I think I'd almost rather MS-Win7, and I utterly detest MS-Win. Please, please, PLEASE, Ubuntu, reconsider your direction on desktop/laptop system window/desktop managers.

Jim

I suspect it wasn't created for only you....

[teacher.japan]

The good thing here is that you have a host of options. Being that you are an avid Unix/Linux user, you have the ability to do one of the following:
a) A different UI via (xubuntu being my fav)
b) Use a different distro.

In my humble opinion(please note that this is just that, an opinion), Unity is terrible and with the whole Amazon fiasco etc., certain things have turned me away from Ubuntu.

I had been using it since 8.04..I still remember receiving my CD's in mail from South Africa and was so damn excieted, not only about the CD's..but an organization such as this.

That being said, I really tried to use Ubuntu after Unity was released.
I won't go to into lengths as to why I disliked it but the general gist of it is that I felt it was not user friendly.


Gnome-Fallback didn't do it for me, KDE had been dead to me since I dropped Slackware for Ubuntu(8.04).
I used Xubuntu for a long time and overtime dropped that too.
I'm no stranger to other distros...I work at a place with close to 14000 UNIX hosts(mix of RH/OL/SLES).
Personally i've played with everything from mandrake to college linux(anyone remember that)?.
I was reading one of the Linux magazines and one of developers talked about Unity, calling it a "experiment in usability".
I can't say the experiment is a failure but it doesn't work for me, just like it doesn't for so many unix admins like me at my workplace who have ended up dropping it as a desktop distro.

Currenly I'm using Mint and have zero complaints about it. I wish all the luck to Ubuntu in the future, I'm hoping I can come back as a user someday.

[teacher.japan]

On a side note, in regards to the OP's comment, I miss a lot of gnome functionality and ease of use also.
If you are looking for a similar experience, do try mate or cinnamon(if you are like me and enjoyed gnome 2 as much as I did, you'll like cinnamon). It's polished and I like it a lot on Mint.

I also agree with other people posting that gnome2 is dead, as much as I enjoy nostalgia...people like you and I(and multiple others) need to find other solutions as Gnome 2 is not coming back..unless you go back to it on an older distro :).

[JSeymour]

I appreciate the comments. Even the pro-Unity ones :) And I appreciate that most of the comments have been respectful and civil.

I'm kind of like teacher.japan. I started with a Dell laptop at work that was so underpowered nobody wanted it any more. Bought Red Hat 5 from a local CompUSA, installed it, and was happy. (Used to amaze my MS-Win-using colleagues with all the things that laptop nobody wanted anymore could do, all at the same time, w/o falling over.) Since then I've used other desktop and server versions of RH, Mandrake/Mandriva, Ubuntu, and even a FreeBSD box. (All the while admin'ing several Sparc Solaris boxen at work. Ran a Sparc Solaris box at home for about ten years, too.)

Of current offerings, I've liked Ubuntu best. When somebody's asked what they should try, my responses have always been "Ubuntu." But Unity, with all due respect to its developers and those who like it, just didn't look like it was going to work for me. Then, while I was still considering which way to jump (give Unity a 2nd chance? Try "classic/fallback?" Try Xfce?), I tripped across the infamous "Ubuntu is spyware" discussions. I don't mean to add another hotly debated issue to the one I already inadvertently started, but that immediately turned me off in a major way.

The next morning Mint 13 Mate got installed on the new machine. So far: I'm pleased. If I continue to be pleased: Then, shortly after May 9, I expect my home machine will be switched to the same.

I wish Canonical and Ubuntu luck, but they've "jumped the shark," for me. At least insofar as desktop versions are concerned.

Jim

[craig10x]

Good luck with your decision...hope you didn't take offense to the few little "pokes" i took at you (they were really all in fun, though the moderators removed them)...
For many of us, unity is a very efficient modern and fun way to work with the desktop...i think that if you had spent more time with it, perhaps you might have turned around on this, but hey...if mate is your thing...
then go for it...

As far as the ubuntu as adaware debate...as i mentioned in another thread about that issue...it's easily turned off in the privacy settings so actually, a "non-issue"....

Also, in that other thread, i did comment that i find it interesting that when ubuntu does something like this (to get a little revenue stream coming in which i think they certainly deserve)...there is always a big hue and cry about it...and yet (just to give one example) over at Linux Mint, the website and forum has "google sense" ads (to generate revenue) and the default search in the mint installed firefox is "duckduckgo" (because that also generates revenue for them) and yet over there, the community has no problem with it...it doesn't turn them off at all...

Best of luck to you ;)

[samsom63]

Good luck with your decision...hope you didn't take offense to the few little "pokes" i took at you (they were really all in fun, though the moderators removed them)...
For many of us, unity is a very efficient modern and fun way to work with the desktop...i think that if you had spent more time with it, perhaps you might have turned around on this, but hey...if mate is your thing...
then go for it...

As far as the ubuntu as adaware debate...as i mentioned in another thread about that issue...it's easily turned off in the privacy settings so actually, a "non-issue"....

Also, in that other thread, i did comment that i find it interesting that when ubuntu does something like this (to get a little revenue stream coming in which i think they certainly deserve)...there is always a big hue and cry about it...and yet (just to give one example) over at Linux Mint, the website and forum has "google sense" ads (to generate revenue) and the default search in the mint installed firefox is "duckduckgo" (because that also generates revenue for them) and yet over there, the community has no problem with it...it doesn't turn them off at all...

Best of luck to you ;)

I do agree on both counts. When I installed Ubuntu in November, I had no idea whatsoever of what I would get. I wanted to try Linux out of curiosity and because I could not stand Windows anymore. Most people who felt the same as me re Windows opted for Mac, but this has never attracted me for several reasons, including their closed system and the general aura around their shops, genius and so on. So I tried the most common Linux distro for newcomers, Ubuntu, and ended up with Unity.

After some aesthetic changes, I quickly discovered that unity is a fantastic DE for me: I love the combination of the launcher and the global search, and most importantly, I realised it was extremely efficient so that I really think I am more productive with unity than with classical DE using drop down menus. I am also quite keen on keyboard shortcuts so it was perfect for me.

Importantly, I love the fact that Unity does not copy what's around there (ie. Mac and Windows DEs) but genuinely brings something new, which I think is really ahead of the curve. There is clear potential with this framework applied to mobile for instance. However, there are a few settings out of the box that detracts from the experience, and it really takes a little tinkering to maximise both the efficiency and the visual appeal of the desktop...

Regarding the scope issues in the Dash, I mus admit I don't really see the point right now. If I want to order on amazon, I'll have a far better experience on the website than on the dash. Now, even a 5 year old could switch it off, so I don't really understand the outcry over it...

[Paulgirardin]

MATE is pretty much it if you like Gome 2.
Otherwise Gnome 2 is dead, it has ceased to be, it has expired and gone to meet its maker! it's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! Its off the twig! It's kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-DESKTOP!!

Noooo! It's just pinin' for the fiords.....

[monkeybrain2012]

Well whenever something new appears, there are bound to be some people who complain because they are afraid of or unwilling to change... why need cars when horses are perfectly good for the job? Why need aeroplanes because humans do perfectly fine without wings? Why Rock music when classical and big band are so much better? (to them) What is with the young people today, they are not like us when we were young? (and of course everything was better when we were young, that was the highest point of human civilization)

Some early complaints against Unity might be justified when 11.04 came out, but now it has become a very polished and efficient DE. I am sick and tired of people who think that gnome 2 is the greatest DE ever invented and should stay there (simply because they are used to it), it is almost as tiresome as Windows users who think that XP is the greatest MS OS ever and wish that it will be supported for another 10 years. There will be no innovation and no breakthrough if such people have their ways.

The great thing about Linux and Ubuntu is that you have so many choices, if you don't like anything that doesn't look like WIndows 95, if you miss you menu, just slap on a different DE (there are many, unlike in Windows) or install a different flavour of *buntu and be done with it. It is not like anyone is forcing you to use Unity (so the comparison with Windows 8 is completely off the mark) On the other hand, Unity is Canonical's baby and it certainly has the right to showcase it and use it as the default.

[3rdalbum]

The "Ubuntu Spyware" thing is just FUD, but unfortunately the FUD is working.

Any mainstream web browser sends more personal info to sites you visit, than Unity sends to Amazon. And when I thought about it, I realised that Unity can find local items when you only type a portion of what you are looking for, which most of the time is a program or document. I don't think Amazon expected to harvest information, but if they did, they would be bitterly disappointed now.

[blackbird34]

For heaven's sake try Cinnamon... With Cinnamon, Ubuntu is far faster than with Unity, and much more stable, no such thing as a Cinnamon-related process locking your CPU at 100% for some obscure reason. It is currently at version 1.6 for Ubuntu 12.04 LTS, it has all the whiz-bang you want, disabled by default, and a nice classic interface. (I love combining it with Synapse)
Cinnamon has its own stable PPA, see here for more detail and happy user comments http://www.webupd8.org/2012/09/new-cinnamon-16-release-adds-2d-session.html




sudo add-apt-repository ppa:gwendal-lebihan-dev/cinnamon-stable sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install cinnamon

[craig10x]

He didn't care for cinnamon either...he wants the old ubuntu gnome 2 set up....which is apparently why he went with mate...I have my doubts about how long mate is going to survive...but if he is happy..
well, that is his choice...

Myself, i like modern...and unity certainly "fills the bill" for me :)

Not everyone likes unity (though i still think that is often due to not giving it a fair chance and spending enough time with it)...it certainly is no "windows 8"

Unity is attractive, intuitive and very SIMPLE to use...all the things Windows 8 is not...

[glln0v]

What you did with Unity on 12.04 LTS, Ubuntu, was completely, totally wrong for my needs. As much as it surprises me to say it, I think I'd almost rather MS-Win7, and I utterly detest MS-Win. Please, please, PLEASE, Ubuntu, reconsider your direction on desktop/laptop system window/desktop managers.

Jim

I'm sorry you don't like Unity, Jim.

But I love it. I'm so glad the switch to Unity was made. I tried Ubuntu in 2009 and 2010 and went back to Windows. But after trying Unity, I dumped windows and a big reason was because of how much more efficient and enjoyable experience using Unity was.

Hopefully you can find a distro that gives you the same pleasure to use as Unity does for me, Jim. There's lots of distros out there. Have you tried Cinnamon?

[JSeymour]

He didn't care for cinnamon either...
Not true. I did not try Cinnamon. In researching Gnome 2 forks and Xfce, I evaluated all that I read and came to the conclusion that Mate would most likely give me what I wanted. So I first tried sticking with Ubuntu 12.04 by installing Mate on it. It was not satisfactory. Back to considering alternatives. Then somebody suggested Mate on Mint was way better than what I experienced with Mate on Ubuntu. So I tried it and liked it.

One of the things that put Cinnamon out of the running was that, from what I'd read, it's not yet near as stable/mature as Mate. I require stability out of my DE. My DE is not a toy or eye candy. It's a tool. A tool the primary purpose of which is to give me easy, efficient access to other tools.

Kind of like my tool boxes and tool cabinets. I don't switch them out every year or two, either. I find one that works well and stick with it, until and unless it no longer serves my needs.


he wants the old ubuntu gnome 2 set up...
It's Gnome-2-ish.


I have my doubts about how long mate is going to survive...but if he is happy.. well, that is his choice...
It seems to be pretty popular. But if ever it dies, I'll reexamine what's available.


Myself, i like modern...and unity certainly "fills the bill" for me :)I like some things that are "modern." Other things I do not. "Modern" or "new" does not necessarily equate to "good" or "better," in my view.

Jim

[craig10x]

Jim...i wasn't overly thrilled with unity when i first saw it either, but when i went back and gave it a fair chance and spent a few weeks with it, i found that it was actually a VERY nice desktop environment to use...That happened with a lot of the ubuntu users who initially didn't care for it either...It's not just the modern (and good looks) aspect of it...i do find it very easy and intuitive to use and also quite productive as well...

Sorry, thought you did try cinnamon....actually i use to use mint myself for a few years (during my early ubuntu years) because i never cared for ubuntu's original layout with the 2 panels and always ended up modifying it to make it like windows...with 1 lower panel and slab style menu...that is why i switched to mint (so i could get that layout by default)...but mint wasn't cinnamon then....while it was gnome 2, it had a lower panel with the very nice linux mint menu (which i think is nicer then the newer cinnamon menu)...

I spent 12 months with ubuntu's original desktop on gnome 2 and never liked it...but i certainly gave it a fair chance! i didn't modify it until after about 4 months or so...and after a year i had ultimately switched to mint...
2 panels takes up to much real estate on the web pages, and i never saw the "efficiency" of a fan out applications menu with no search or favorites option...even a slab menu is far superior to that (in my view)...

I switched back to ubuntu when Unity was introduced....Perhaps it was because that when i left windows (but before discovering linux) i spent about a year running an IMAC...
So that probably made it easier for me to adopt to and appreciate unity...because to me, the unity dock and global menu, does feel very "mac-ish" to me...and i don't think that is a bad thing at all...

[glln0v]

Things about Unity that I really love. these things make using the computer so much more enjoyable and efficient:
1) merging of titlebar into the top-panel when windows are maximized
2) global-menus appearing in top-panel
3) Launcher and its shortcuts (eg, Alt+Grave, Alt+F1, Super+1-0)
4) the Notify popups that inform user of events
5) system-indicators and how applications can't "override" this area like they do in Gnome2 and Windows

--I'm not crazy about the HUD. Also not crazy about the Dash and all the lenses, scopes, and privacy problems it presents. I wish the resources being devoted to the Dash and all its issues was being devoted to enhancing the GUFW firewall instead.

[rrich1974]

@craig10x
very nice post man! thanx!
a lot of people are weeping for gnome 2 without even try unity at least few weeks. they just open the computer, give a glance to the desktop and after a few seconds cone to the conclusion that unity is crap. it is already two years since the unity launching date......gnome 2 is dead.

[Gyokuro]

Even the classic mode of Gnome 3.8 do not bring back the good old feel of Gnome 2 - it is slow. The only advantage of Gnome 3 is that is using less memory as Unity.

[iamkuriouspurpleoranj]

You can make Mint with MATE identical to Gnome 2. Just remove the Mint menu and add the other menu and move the taskbar to the top.
http://ompldr.org/taTE2aA (http://ompldr.org/vaTE2aA/Capture.png)

[Gyokuro]

Thanks and I have played with Mint but I had problems with it: no alternative installer and the GUI installer is unable to create a LVM setup (I can do this via a shell but that is not comfortable) maybe next Mint release have an updated installer with LVM support. Otherwise it's interesting and alternatives are always welcome.

[teacher.japan]

The "Ubuntu Spyware" thing is just FUD, but unfortunately the FUD is working.

Any mainstream web browser sends more personal info to sites you visit, than Unity sends to Amazon. And when I thought about it, I realised that Unity can find local items when you only type a portion of what you are looking for, which most of the time is a program or document. I don't think Amazon expected to harvest information, but if they did, they would be bitterly disappointed now.


If you install a browser that harvests that information(and you let it), then it's your fault. You are choosing an application, it's your choice.

In this case the very base OS is doing it to you, without giving you a heads up or a choice. Yes, we can all remove it at will but having such a thing integrated with the OS is not something I like (keep mind, I said "I", which means it's a personal opinion).

Regardless, I think this conversation is turning out to be fanboyish in nature. I didn't want to get in a distro-war.
Doesn't make sense really when it's a matter of personal opinion.

Some people think Unity is mordern, some think it's ugly, some think Ubuntu is heading in the right direction, some don't, some call it spyware and others call it a means of generating financial revenue.

To each his own.

[iamkuriouspurpleoranj]

^Yeah it really does my nut in, the way I'm constantly forced to install Ubuntu against my will.

There really is no difference between choosing to use an OS that collects data about your usage and choosing to use a browser that collects data about your usage. Or if there is, I'd like to hear it. The distinction between offline and online that some commentators have made seems like a legal defence argument Gary Glitter might have used: "I didn't 'download' the images, m'lud. I was just 'viewing' them on-line"

"Fanboyish"? Swapnil, is that you?

[craig10x]

Again...i would have to point out (for the millionth time...lol) that the 2 off switches in "privacy" completely turn off ALL online search activities...so again, it's a non issue...and anyone who says they don't use unity because of "shopping lenses" is apparently too lazy to spend 5 seconds to switch the buttons off..I turn mine off as i rather do my amazon searching ON amazon's website...and i instead make my contributions to the advancement of ubuntu by making direct donations to it...Mark specified that while turned on by default, he will ALWAYS provide those off switches for those who want not to participate...

In the case of using Google Chrome...i simply LOVE the browser and i like the features it provides over Chromium or it's other totally open source variations...so, the target ads i get are not a big issue to me...i don't use ad blockers and i would see ads anyway...so the fact they use the input to target them is, in my mind, also a non issue...

Not everyone likes unity, but for many who have given it a fair chance, often turn around about it after a while a enjoy what it offers (that happened to me)...those that still don't like it after a fair trial (or those that just don't want to give it a fair trial) always have many other options they can use...but i feel ubuntu was very wise going with unity as it's "mass" desktop environment...and i have spent lots of time with windows 8...and unity is FAR easier to use and so much more intuitive then that is...I do like windows 7 though...

[Perfect Storm]

This thread is now running in circles while beating a dead horse with an ugly stick. The OP got his input he asked for.

Thread closed.