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ergo-proxy
March 6th, 2013, 08:10 PM
Have look at the latest Phoronix article: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTMxOTc

Sounds scary to me. I switched to ubuntu not becuase it's free in terms of $$ but free of any type bloatware introduced by MS/OSX and I don't want to by spied by my own distribution. If I decide to install propietary software I want it to be my decision. When I see "Ubuntu is DRM ready" I will dump it without hassles.

grahammechanical
March 6th, 2013, 08:36 PM
Could you please explain what is scaring you? Do you intend to play digital content that is encrypted with Digital Rights Management keys on your Ubuntu mobile device? No? Then what is your problem? Canonical is not aiming to sell you a Ubuntu mobile device. There are not enough Free and Open Source Software believers in the world to make a decent living from. Its target are those millions of people that use mobile devices as media players and who just want the stuff that they are buying to run on their device. These people are not bothered about Open Source. They want something that looks good, works well and lets them play whatever they download.

ergo-proxy
March 6th, 2013, 08:49 PM
What makes you to think that Canonical will stop on mobile devices only? I can agree that if you wish to be competitive on a mobile segment you have to be agressive as other players and forget about sublime ideas. I know mobile users won't care but what about desktop users?

MadmanRB
March 6th, 2013, 08:52 PM
DRM in Ubuntu?

Yeah now is the time for the moaning and bitching about Canonical to become valid.
Screw DRM, thanksa Canonical for coming to the aid of yet another broken technology, first there is secure boot/UEFI and now this.
I wasnt in favor of Stallman calling you out on Amazon as its something one can bypass but this?

ManamiVixen
March 6th, 2013, 09:05 PM
Hery everyone, guess what? GET OVER IT!!! Ubuntu isn't a community driven project anymore. It's an OS from a large company looking to make an impact in the computing market. As far as I am concerned, Ubuntu really isn't Linux anymore. It's based on Linux, but is vastly different in ideology and methology. I will not be suprized if by 14.04 Ubuntu will no longer be Linux compatible at the Kernel Binary level, in turn making it a new OS. Ubuntu has a modified Kernel, new display manager, getting DRM support, custom Debian-based packages, and better internet intergration. Ubuntu will be the next Apple. Just like how OS X is based in BSD, but is completely incompatibe with BSD packages. So, you can ride the wagon to the new frontier, a new OS begining, or you can jump off and stick with the community driven Linux Distros which most likely will loose support from companies like Nvidia and Valve as Ubuntu makes it big as the new OS for the masses.

Personally, I'm OK with that.

ergo-proxy
March 6th, 2013, 09:13 PM
You got the point but in such case what would be a benefit of using Ubuntu over OSX or even MS ???

MadmanRB
March 6th, 2013, 09:17 PM
Hery everyone, guess what? GET OVER IT!!! Ubuntu isn't a community driven project anymore. It's an OS from a large company looking to make an impact in the computing market. As far as I am concerned, Ubuntu really isn't Linux anymore. It's based on Linux, but is vastly different in ideology and methology. I will not be suprized if by 14.04 Ubuntu will no longer be Linux compatible at the Kernel Binary level, in turn making it a new OS. Ubuntu has a modified Kernel, new display manager, getting DRM support, custom Debian-based packages, and better internet intergration. Ubuntu will be the next Apple. Just like how OS X is based in BSD, but is completely incompatibe with BSD packages. So, you can ride the wagon to the new frontier, a new OS begining, or you can jump off and stick with the community driven Linux Distros which most likely will loose support from companies like Nvidia and Valve as Ubuntu makes it big as the new OS for the masses.

Personally, I'm OK with that.

Oh sure lets loose viable competition because Canonical wants to be like Apple.
Meh.

Umbra Diaboli
March 6th, 2013, 09:53 PM
You don't have to use Ubuntu if you don't want to :D I'm using Debian for instance.

aspergerian
March 6th, 2013, 11:04 PM
...Ubuntu isn't a community driven project anymore. It's an OS from a large company looking to make an impact in the computing market. As far as I am concerned, Ubuntu really isn't Linux anymore. It's based on Linux, but is vastly different in ideology and methology. I will not be suprized if by 14.04 Ubuntu will no longer be Linux compatible at the Kernel Binary level, in turn making it a new OS. Ubuntu has a modified Kernel, new display manager, getting DRM support, custom Debian-based packages, and better internet intergration. Ubuntu will be the next Apple. Just like how OS X is based in BSD, but is completely incompatibe with BSD packages...

Assuming your critique is correct, what will become of Xubuntu?

ManamiVixen
March 7th, 2013, 12:14 AM
@ aspergerian (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=646399)

Not sure exactly. Most likely will be axed by 14.04. Have to wait till the next LTS to see exactly. But there has to be a reason why 12.04 is 5 years in support aganst the usual 2-3 years

kurt18947
March 7th, 2013, 12:29 AM
@ aspergerian (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=646399)

Not sure exactly. Most likely will be axed by 14.04. Have to wait till the next LTS to see exactly. But there has to be a reason why 12.04 is 5 years in support aganst the usual 2-3 years

I kinda thought that had to do with making 12.04 more acceptable for business use. Businesses don't want to have to do a major makeover of their IT functions every couple years. Remember Microsoft usually offers extended support for 10 years or more. XP came out in 2001, will have lasted 'til 2014 and businesses are still footdragging about upgrading 'til the last minute.

Paddy Landau
March 7th, 2013, 12:35 AM
When I see "Ubuntu is DRM ready" I will dump it without hassles.
I'm confused. What is making you upset? Making Ubuntu "DRM ready" means that you will be able to play media that otherwise would have been unavailable, wouldn't it? In other words, it is adding capability, not removing it. Or have I misunderstood?

It wouldn't affect me, anyway, because I don't buy DRM media.

ManamiVixen
March 7th, 2013, 12:42 AM
The issue he is have is that Canonical will be adding Proprietary Software by default that most likely will require you to agree to a EULA of some sort.

Cheesemill
March 7th, 2013, 12:44 AM
I'm confused. What is making you upset? Making Ubuntu "DRM ready" means that you will be able to play media that otherwise would have been unavailable, wouldn't it? In other words, it is adding capability, not removing it. Or have I misunderstood?

It wouldn't affect me, anyway, because I don't buy DRM media.

+1

DRM would make more content available for future versions of Ubuntu. Content providers will usually only license content for distribution if it the end-platform has DRM capability. If you take Netflix for example, there are a huge number of people complaining the there isn't a native Linux client available. With a suitable DRM mechanism in place then services such as Netflix would be able to produce native clients.

Also I didn't see that many people complain when Valve decided to release Steam for Ubuntu, at the end of the day Steam is just a content delivery and DRM solution.

Cheesemill
March 7th, 2013, 12:45 AM
The issue he is have is that Canonical will be adding Proprietary Software by default that most likely will require you to agree to a EULA of some sort.
Who is to say it will be proprietary software?

There are open source DRM mechanisms available.

fontis
March 7th, 2013, 12:47 AM
Hery everyone, guess what? GET OVER IT!!! Ubuntu isn't a community driven project anymore. It's an OS from a large company looking to make an impact in the computing market. As far as I am concerned, Ubuntu really isn't Linux anymore. It's based on Linux, but is vastly different in ideology and methology. I will not be suprized if by 14.04 Ubuntu will no longer be Linux compatible at the Kernel Binary level, in turn making it a new OS. Ubuntu has a modified Kernel, new display manager, getting DRM support, custom Debian-based packages, and better internet intergration. Ubuntu will be the next Apple. Just like how OS X is based in BSD, but is completely incompatibe with BSD packages. So, you can ride the wagon to the new frontier, a new OS begining, or you can jump off and stick with the community driven Linux Distros which most likely will loose support from companies like Nvidia and Valve as Ubuntu makes it big as the new OS for the masses.

Personally, I'm OK with that.

Your statement is inaccurate my dear friend. You are forgetting the very simple difference between Ubuntu and OSX.
Regardless of how many "modified" components we have in Ubuntu, it is still an open source operating system. Which in itself means that these additions will be open source. Meaning you get to fiddle with it as much as you want. Derivations will still exist and life will go on.
Also, the licensing is wayyyyyyyyy different in the case of OSX compared to Linux.

Hastings101
March 7th, 2013, 01:05 AM
Ubuntu is backed by a business and businesses like to make money so it's not really surprising they'd embrace new ways to earn more money.

3rdalbum
March 7th, 2013, 06:46 AM
If Canonical writes a single line of code that allows you to buy or rent DRMed music or video, then I'm leaving. For real.

Canonical should not even consider DRM. I'm no Stallman, I'm just very opposed to DRM.

zombifier25
March 7th, 2013, 08:53 AM
If Canonical writes a single line of code that allows you to buy or rent DRMed music or video, then I'm leaving. For real.

Canonical should not even consider DRM. I'm no Stallman, I'm just very opposed to DRM.

Then too bad, since you're a minority.
Canonical is not trying to make a OS conforming to all open standards serving a open-source loving market, they're trying to make a good OS usable for everyone on the world.

Some DRM is bad, I agree, but DRM can be done good (Steam for example)

Paqman
March 7th, 2013, 09:15 AM
How is this news? Ubuntu has always supported ways of dealing with content that's encumbered by restrictions and DRM. The system you have right now will automatically install codecs for dealing with MP3, flash etc, and there are packages in the repos for you to watch those encrypted DVDs, etc, etc. One of the reasons Ubuntu has always been popular is precisely because it takes a pragmatic stance on non-free media content.

Storm in teacup time in freesoftwareland again I see.

ssam
March 7th, 2013, 09:59 AM
Who is to say it will be proprietary software?

There are open source DRM mechanisms available.

If you write an opensource video player that implements Digital 'rights' management, then i can patch it so that instead of sending the decrypted data to the screen, it writes it to disk. You could make the OS only run signed unmodified programs, but then you destroy peoples ability to write and test new programs, or fix bugs in existing programs. Or you could bury the decryption in a closed source graphics driver (so the video player sends the encrypted stream all the way to the driver), but that does not really count as an open source DRM.

This may explain why MIR exists though.

(Also don't get confused with Direct Rendering Manager which the X server and graphics drivers use so that 3D rendering does not need to be pushed over the old network interface in X11)

3rdalbum
March 7th, 2013, 10:20 AM
Then too bad, since you're a minority.
Canonical is not trying to make a OS conforming to all open standards serving a open-source loving market, they're trying to make a good OS usable for everyone on the world.

Some DRM is bad, I agree, but DRM can be done good (Steam for example)

DRM'ed music and movies makes things less usable, not more usable.

The people want more freedom to use purchased media, not less. If Canonical was only making it possible to view DRM content on Ubuntu I wouldn't be so opposed, but there's a strong hint that they will start a DRM movie service. Adding another source of DRM is wrong for your users, and an intolerable slap against Linux users.

Check my history. I defended Canonical with Unity, Amazon and Mir, but ifthey plan to introduce DRM I will switch.

ergo-proxy
March 7th, 2013, 10:31 AM
Who is to say it will be proprietary software?

There are open source DRM mechanisms available.

Can you please name some open source DRM mechanisms which are commonly used?

I wouldn't be totally against if DRM implementation was an open source project but I don't believe that big companies would agree to use open source DRM mechanism in Ubuntu. I can imagine n-fork projects bypassing DRM :)

Sableyes
March 7th, 2013, 11:24 AM
Hmmm is this DRM something like the Ubuntu Restriced Extras thing? Selling devices with closed source software on allowing the playing of restricted formats? Or is it something more?

Paqman
March 7th, 2013, 11:35 AM
Hmmm is this DRM something like the Ubuntu Restriced Extras thing? Selling devices with closed source software on allowing the playing of restricted formats? Or is it something more?

It's just based on the fact that someone at UDS raised the question of how Ubuntu Touch will handle DRM content. If Android handles it in the Java layer then Ubuntu Touch will need its own solution. If Android handles it lower down then Ubuntu can just piggyback on that.

Sableyes
March 7th, 2013, 02:10 PM
So the Sky's not falling? awesome ^^

I do feel quite strongly against DRM, though this does look like they have just used the dirty word and Phronix has taken it as an excuse for a dirty word attention grabbing headline.

Paqman
March 7th, 2013, 02:15 PM
So the Sky's not falling? awesome ^^


No, but that's never stopped the community getting its knickers in a twist about something before.

Paddy Landau
March 7th, 2013, 03:35 PM
I do feel quite strongly against DRM, though this does look like they have just used the dirty word and Phronix has taken it as an excuse for a dirty word attention grabbing headline.
Agreed. Many people hate DRM (I hate it not because of the principle, but because of the gross inconvenience).

However, some people use DRM. It is their choice. They need a platform on which to use DRM.

If Ubuntu fails to provide DRM on principle, it would then be restricting choice — on principle. That goes against the grain of what Ubuntu stands for.

Those (such as Richard Stallman) who are against any digital product that removes freedom should not be using Ubuntu anyway, even before DRM is considered, because Ubuntu includes some proprietary software (whether open or closed source).

The problem with people starting these threads is that they expect Ubuntu to adhere exclusively to the FLOSS principle, but Ubuntu is not such a product. There are products that adhere strictly to FLOSS, and such people should migrate there.

I am a practical person, and I use Ubuntu because it is practical, not because it is free (libre or gratis). I left Windows not because it cost money or was proprietary, but because it was not providing what I was paying for and the support was inadequate.

ShadowGuardian
March 9th, 2013, 08:12 PM
If ubuntu is going to expand and eventually become like Mac and Windows (meaning more restricting or whatever), then thats ok. Good for Canonical. I haven't had issues with DRM stuff, but I like freedom. Ubuntu seems to be becoming

more like the others (like being user friendly and pretty, even though it can get kinda bloaty). Ubuntu is still strong in my opinion, however if this happens then I will probably find a new OS, like Ubuntu was when I found it (10.10).

That being said, what are some other linux or non-linux OS that can compete with ubuntu or blow it out of the water? I messed with Fedora, but i know there are others out there.

VeeDubb
March 9th, 2013, 08:26 PM
I'm confused. What is making you upset? Making Ubuntu "DRM ready" means that you will be able to play media that otherwise would have been unavailable, wouldn't it? In other words, it is adding capability, not removing it. Or have I misunderstood?

It wouldn't affect me, anyway, because I don't buy DRM media.

You're understanding perfectly. Several other people are not.

Making the OS DRM Ready simply means that people running Ubuntu will be able to consume DRM encrypted media without having to circumvent that encryption first. It doesn't mean you will be forced to use DRM encrypted media, or that it will magically encrypt all of your existing media. It also doesn't mean that you won't be able to continue circumventing DRM if you so choose. Windows users circumvent DRM all the time.

Every single person will fall into one of two categories.

a. You will benefit from this. (People who want to be able to consume DRM encrypted media on Ubuntu)

or

b. You will not be affected by this. (Everyone else)