IT Goddesses

[lucia_engel]

IT Screen Goddesses (http://www.itgoddess.info/)
Press release (http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/geek-goddesses-or-calendar-girls/2006/07/09/1152383607217.html)

What do people think about this? Just found out through MajorGeeks.

I don't have anything against women posing for calendars (semi-nude or not) and the calendar seems to be for a good cause (money goes to non-profit groups that gains awareness of women in IT). But I don't think this will actually encourage girls to get into IT...

Some assumptions that can be made:
- Female geeks need to pose in order to get recognized in the industry, instead of through their technical skills and talents.
- Female geeks are all full figured, sociable, and drop dead gorgeous...yay...too bad I don't fit those criterias :p
- Female geeks are a rarity, so you'll most likely work with a room full of males and be gawked at like a calendar girl.

Those assumptions aren't true of course, and I'd probably shut right up when they come up with an "IT Studs" calendar. :) Which, come to think of it, no one ever objects to those male firefighters calendars...I wonder why.

[BinaryDigit]

Interesting concept. It's cool that they are having the funds go to organizations that promote women in IT, but I don't think it will necessarily get girls into IT....I'm sure it's going for something like "Even though a woman is working in a male dominated field, she can be an intelligent, sexy, confident woman". It will get mixed and controversial opinions for sure.

[-Phi-]

I agree that such a calendar is not likely to get women interested in IT careers. While having their biographies in the calendar may be an attempt at providing roll models, the calendars clearly aren't aimed at most women...

There are similar projects at The Girls of Geekdom (http://www.girlsofgeekdom.com/) and Geek Gorgeous (http://www.geekgorgeous.com/), though I believe neither claims to be encouraging women in IT.

As for the money going to a foundation, I'm not clear what such a foundation can do...give seminars?

Though really, my only real problem with the calendar is that most of the models seem to be uncomfortable posing. That's never good.

- Phi

[DirtDawg]

Before it left this world, I drew comics for Too Much Coffee Man Magazine. Their issue #0 sported a cover photo of the Editor in Chief that was very similar to "Sonja's" photo, only there were coffee beans rather than rose petals. I wish I could find a bigger picture of the magazine cover. I have a hard copy floating around somewhere.

Anyway, I know this has nothing to do with anything. I just thought it was interesting.

Sonja:
http://www.thoughtware.com.au/hosting/calendar2006/images/b_ab.jpg

TMCM #0:
http://sc.groups.msn.com/tn/0F/C1/CoffeeLoversCommunity/1/b.jpg

[ketsugi]

Aren't they both just parodies of the American Beauty poster with Menu Suvari covered in rose petals?

[DirtDawg]

Aren't they both just parodies of the American Beauty poster with Menu Suvari covered in rose petals?

So they are. Good call.

[Biltong (Dee)]

Why not a calendar?
The common stereotype of a woman in IT is "God, she must be butch." At least this calendar proves otherwise :-)
NOW - is there a corresponding "Men in IT" calendar (she asks hopefully...)

[kassetra]

The common stereotype of a woman in IT is "God, she must be butch." At least this calendar proves otherwise :-)
That is so true, it goes without further comment.

However... why do women in IT always have to prove they're not 800 kg land monsters by posing nude or semi-nude? Wouldn't an interview and a few nice photos suffice?

ah well, it doesn't really matter.

[gruvsyco]

At my last job, we had a few women on staff, I don't think any of them were perceived as butch. One of them seemed like she always was trying to prove something but honestly, I think that was more on her than on the rest of the staff, since the organization she was with was part of an acquisition, it may have had some grounds in the way her company was prior to coming on board. I'm not saying that the perception isn't common but merely pointing out that it's not like that everywhere.

As far as the calendar goes, I don't think the objectification of women is going to give any serious credibility among peers. It might, in a round about way say, hey geeks can be sexy too but, being a catalyst for getting women to join the IT field it is not.

[anasofiapaixao]

Allow me to say that it is true that female geeks, if not a rarity, at least uncommon they are. Ever heard of IST (http://www.ist.utl.pt)? My college, an engineerings college, AKA a girl's paradise as there are securely at least 80% of guys, The only exceptions are bio and chemistry courses...

Even in high school, I was the only girl in 30 at the physics class. There were only 5 guys in biology class, the rest were girls.

I can't speak for other countries, but here geek girls sure are a rarity.

(My [very] stupid extra note: and who cares!? I wouldn't change the feeling of having at least 3 interesting guys interested in me right at the beginning of the year, as did happen, for anything in the world... hihihi)

[skirkpatrick]

As a male, it's pathetic. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy photos of good looking women myself but I think that selling sexy calendars to raise money is a very tired subject. Nobody that buys that calendar is in the least interested in any of the biographical info about the models unless they intend to stalk them.

I foresee the Geek Male IT calendar containing 12 pages of men who generally look like Bill Gates did when he first started Microsoft. :shock:

[allhope]

At the risk of sounding closeminded, I think that the whole idea is rather pointless and objectifying. You can't even tell from the photos that the women work in IT. It doesn't show off their technical abilities at all, just their bodies...

[indigoshift]

It doesn't really seem all that exploitive to me, but I'm a guy, and probably looking at it with the wrong pair of eyes.

I think the movie character theme was a good idea, though.

[Mr_J_]

Just another bunch of women wanting to prove stereotipes wrong...
She wants to get naked... Yay! :D

Not that I expect that to attract more women towards the IT area because of it, or even produce anything but a bunch of people looking at her.

Now I think she's a very big freak. Working in the IT area, stunningly beautiful, and a free spirit...
What a freak! :mrgreen:

Just wondering when the ASCII version is coming out... :p

[nursegirl]

Just wondering when the ASCII version is coming out... :p

Here ya go ... Sonya in ASCII

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[Mr_J_]

That's real porn for ya!
ROTFLMAO!:-D

[SoundMachine]

Here ya go ... Sonya in ASCII

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I'd hit it!

[Kuprin]

Yar...I'm neutral to this, I think. I don't like how it's intending to promote women in IT though - it doesn't do that at all.

Having a calendar of sexy geeky girls? Sure, why not? I know of a lot of geekettes that love to show themselves off. Everyone has their beauty...a lot of guys just don't see it.

That said, I'm running of of patience for the McDonalds Geek. I'm a humanist, and I see beauty in a strong, healthy person (and cute things). Nya! =^_^= *runs off chasing string*

[BlacKat_K]

I think that making a calendar of women working in IT as well as starting a thread especially for women as though we're rarities in this domain is quite silly.I'm definitely not a fan on "womenhood role models",we're all humans,the differences arent that big and i surely dont think we should get preferential treatement.Oh and why didnt they put women sitting in front of computers cause thats where IT happens :) lol IT goddesses so silly i cant even comment on it :P

[Ghost|BTFH]

Is it just me or did everyone else notice that 99% of these women were not even remotely attractive and it must have taken the professional photographer, makeup artists and industrial special effects gurus weeks if not months of prep time to even get these passable shots off...

*sigh* Chicks + computers == sexy.

Don't take a female geek away from her computers and try to make her look glamorous...she's sexy because she digs having root, not because she's a supermodel.

Cheers,
Ghost|BTFH

[TooRight]

The makers of the calendar have forgotten one thing that from what I can see from the pics is lacking... sexiness is an attitude. it isn't the amount of skin you're showing, nor your pose and props. The women in those pics look like they're in pain for the most part and terribly uncomfortable --they certainly weren't feeling sexy were they? It's clear a different photographer should have been used.

As a woman I know I am sexy; as a woman in IT I don't need nor want peers or clients telling me so. I want them focussed on my abilities, my work ethic, my skills and professionalism.

[Ghost|BTFH]

The makers of the calendar have forgotten one thing that from what I can see from the pics is lacking...
...As a woman I know I am sexy; as a woman in IT I don't need nor want peers or clients telling me so. I want them focussed on my abilities, my work ethic, my skills and professionalism.

Right, but you'd still feel much sexier in a pic like these if you were cuddling up to a Linux server farm, right? ;) I mean please, at least put these women into their element and THEN try to take some sexy photos...

Cheers,
Ghost|BTFH

[cokhavim]

I think objectivising women, geek or no geek, is absolutely disgusting. This calendar is just telling the world that even smart women can be objects for men's viewing pleasure. Absolutely sick.

[BLTicklemonster]

Will this be available for the ubuntu calender on the ubuntu christian edition?


(that was bad, sorry)

[Ghost|BTFH]

I think objectivising women, geek or no geek, is absolutely disgusting. This calendar is just telling the world that even smart women can be objects for men's viewing pleasure. Absolutely sick.

But...that's the problem...there wasn't much viewing pleasure to be had there...

It was kinda like looking at a 12 car pile-up on the interstate...

You don't want to look, but you're drawn to it in a dark, perverse fashion...

:D

Cheers,
Ghost|BTFH

[Lin-X]

From what I've seen of men in IT, a calendar of them would be mighty depressing to look at!

[Ghost|BTFH]

You ain't kiddin'. The attractive male in IT is a rare creature, and oddly, they're usually just as single.

It has to be something to do with their suggestion of a romantic getaway weekend being the next "Con" that's coming up...

:twisted:

Okay, that was just mean...even for me...

:twisted:

Not that I really care...because I'm just as geeky.

Cheers,
Ghost|BTFH

[ProjectGod]

the handsome male geek is rare. you'll find 1 in a million. take for example myself. :biggrin: no kidding.

however the gorgeous geek girl? hmmmmm extremely rare. 1 in one billion. more rare than freaks of nature e.g. adriana lima, or laetitia casta. i think this is cause girls tend to be more creative than logical. theyre more into colours and things that are coarse in aesthetic sense. most girls i know use computers for design and art work. nothing tooo technical. they love macs and other eye candy geek objects.

having said this... the more gorgeous the girl the less likely she'll be in IT. especially the technical aspect of it. *sign*

on the other hand men tend to be perverts who find beauty in the subtleties of programming or packet analysing or building complex networks...

:biggrin:

[flowdawg]

You got that right, except that I never before applied the term perverted to my home network, but I can see why someone would do that, since I have 3 switches In a household of five (and I really need them).
But let's not despair. Women will conquer geekdom, and raise the possibilities to one in a million, as it is with the handsome male geeks. And there will be many fairytales of geek princes and geek princesses with handsome geek children ;)

[Ben Sprinkle]

I am a handsome geek goat. Love me.

[Zyphrexi]

EDIT: ah, just saw them... not that great imho. I can find better beauties at my school. They're a little too dolled up for my tastes.

I haven't seen the wallpaper that's causing this discussion, but I personally love the female form.

Appreciation of a thing doesn't imply sexism.

(note: I could be completely off on this one, not having read the entire discussion, but it sounds like another sexism vs. respect threads)

Oh and just to clear this up... the calendar is feeding into the males ego and desires of a perfect woman, and physical attraction, demeaning or not, is necessary for procreation and the survival of our species. If there was no attraction, there'd be no desire to mate.

[Ghost|BTFH]

...take for example myself. :biggrin: no kidding.

...most girls i know use computers for design and art work. nothing tooo technical. they love macs and other eye candy geek objects.

having said this... the more gorgeous the girl the less likely she'll be in IT. especially the technical aspect of it. *sign*

Wow...I am in awe...you have (most likely) single handedly pissed off the majority of women in IT and quite possibly made sure you will never reproduce...all in one posting.

That's gotta be a record.

Cheers,
Ghost|BTFH

[Zyphrexi]

ouch.

Although there was a study that women were less likely to pursue highly technical careers. So it is somewhat true, however I think that there could be a lack of good looking guys in IT as well, but all that just fits into societies idea that smart == nerdy-looking.

I really don't think anyone can be pigeonholed like that, humans are as different as snowflakes.

[Titan_Prometheus]

hmmm... It is sad that there are so few women in the field of computer science and Engineering. I am attending college, for Software engineering, and for most of my class, there is usually 1, if lucky 2 women in our class. The other thing is they are like the Mensa Type. They are the ones who know 4 languages, including latin, was a mathlete, and i going for a double major of EE and TE. I don't know why there are so few women, anyone else have any ideas?

[geekchic9]

hmmm... It is sad that there are so few women in the field of computer science and Engineering. <snip> I don't know why there are so few women, anyone else have any ideas?

This is a complicated question, as for every woman it is different. I can only share my own experience. I was a Computer Science major for a time in college, and the main reason why I didn't make the cut was that I needed more interpersonal interaction than Computer Science currently offers. I'm just not willing to sit alone at my computer for hours, trying to solve an intricate puzzle--I just don't have that sort of passion for the subject. This is frustrating, because in the workforce, Computer Science/Software Engineering offers tons of personal interaction and teamwork. It's just that, to learn the basics, you can only master that on your own.

Another reason why I didn't continue was because I didn't want to master the computer as intricately as some of the others. I just wanted the computer, which is to me, just another tool, to work so I could accomplish the real task I wanted to accomplish--to help others. That was something I just couldn't accept at the time: In order to have to use the tool to help others, you have to master the tool. This applies to just about every field, I think.

Right now I am taking classes at a community college to become an administrative assistant. I have to spend a lot of time alone working on administrating/accounting in order to master those concepts. I don't mind this time around, because to me, being an administrative assistant seems more applicable to my life, since I have just been hired to be an administrative assistant at a local non-profit. Plus, I actually enjoy learning those skills in themselves, because they seem more concrete and practical in my mind, but that's just in my experience.

[Colly]

Jeepers people! It's just a standard marketing gimmick to make a few bucks selling some more calendars. I'm sure the calendar makers were just scratching their heads wondering "what can we do now that we've made all the puppy, kitten, horse, lighthouse, mountain scene, and studly fireman calendars?" and this was the idea that someone came up with to keep from getting fired for not having any ideas at all. Give 'em a break. All this fuss is probably the same reason the Snap-On Tools people quit making their famous calendars in the mid-90's. I'm sure all those mechanics bought THOSE calendars just to look at the shiny tools and hot cars - NOT. (Actually, I suppose most of those calendars were given away free in hopes that mechanics would always remember to call their Snap-On Tools sales rep at least once a year.)

[Colly]

... and has everyone forgotten that the first programmer was a woman mathematician http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Lovelace who even has a programming language named after her? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_programming_language

[shat]

http://www.awc-hq.org/

Take a look. There are indeed successful and physically attractive women in computing.

My girlfriend writes a blog about social networking sites. She is beautiful.

She also loves Ubuntu. She is an art/english honors student, and appreciates the UI improvements over windows, and the price is quite nice :) And of course, being an art major, Ubuntu can be very pretty. Anybody can appreciate this, including me (I won't lie :)).



This is a complicated question, as for every woman it is different. I can only share my own experience. I was a Computer Science major for a time in college, and the main reason why I didn't make the cut was that I needed more interpersonal interaction than Computer Science currently offers. I'm just not willing to sit alone at my computer for hours, trying to solve an intricate puzzle--I just don't have that sort of passion for the subject. This is frustrating, because in the workforce, Computer Science/Software Engineering offers tons of personal interaction and teamwork. It's just that, to learn the basics, you can only master that on your own.


True and false. I'm a senior Comp Sci major, and I'm a very social person myself. I found that the best way to learn some of these techniques is probably to figure them out yourself- but that is no excuse to stare at the screen for >15 minutes trying to figure out <insert your problem here>! You're not going to make any progress, and you'll get frustrated. Other students, grad students, professors, you'll find lots of people willing to help you if you just take the initiative and ask. Maybe the basics should be learned on your own, but there's no reason not to collaborate if you've hit a brick wall!](*,)

I think Ubuntu is a great example of how important collaboration is.



I don't know why there are so few women, anyone else have any ideas?


A complex mixture of expectations, gender roles, etc. Females are increasingly leaving science and math classes as early as middle school and high school, and without some basic understanding of math (debatable), Computer Science is going to be more difficult. The answer, therefore, is that girls are being discouraged from the field, starting in grade school.

However, I know of many girls in college and the work force that are doing wonderfully- this is a great place to be for females. One of my roommates had a girlfriend working an IT internship over the summer- she was a Comp Engineer, and she had offers from at least 10 different corporations. No joke. Her college is paid for, plus some, in grants. If you're a girl and interested in computers, you'll go anywhere. Corporations are looking for you.

There were many girls in IT where I had my internship last summer, too. They all did great.



i think this is cause girls tend to be more creative than logical. theyre more into colours and things that are coarse in aesthetic sense. most girls i know use computers for design and art work. nothing tooo technical. they love macs and other eye candy geek objects.



on the other hand men tend to be perverts who find beauty in the subtleties of programming or packet analysing or building complex networks...



however the gorgeous geek girl? hmmmmm extremely rare. 1 in one billion.

Why do you think this is? Its because people like you who think that girls that go into Comp Sci are unattractive, and that girls are using computers for "colors and things" and "design and art work".

You are implying that girls do not use computers for technical reasons and prefer things that are shiny.
You are implying that girls who enjoy programming have very small chances of being physically attractive (nevermind the fact that full extent of attractiveness is not merely physical!).

You are enforcing gender stereotypes, and people like you are the answer to Titan_Prometheus' question. If you want women to behave like blonde stupid airheads, just keep telling yourself what girls aught to be.



the handsome male geek is rare. you'll find 1 in a million. take for example myself. no kidding.

I'm sure we can all agree on this point, however.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

EDIT:

I completely derailed....

The calendar! It's a good concept, but most likely will be taken in the wrong way, if it ever actually makes it to the bookshelf. Just further objectifying..... Why can't we value intelligence, and beauty? Why must we conditionally value intelligence, as long as the subject is beautiful too?

[Lord Illidan]

Looked at the websites...no go mates..they look too fake.

That said, I don't like stereotypes. Beautiful women don't need to be stupid.

[DoctorMO]

Beautiful women can be found without ever gazing upon their features.