Is it a Logical or primary parition?

[surati]

Hi
How do I find out, with Gparted, if my partition is logic or primary?
I have for ubuntu one extended partition with (normaly)3 logical ones. After some Windows installations problem i took a look at the drivers manager and was surprised to see that ubuntu has 3 primery partitions instead of logical.
Is it a windows "apearence mistake" or maybe my mistake (this would explain my installations problem and I would just need to change from primery to logic ,when possible).
Thanks
surati

[Cheesemill]

If you can post a screenshot of gparted from Ubuntu we can tell you all you need to know.

[offgridguy]

If you have ubuntu in 3 logical partitions inside an extended
partition, the extended is considered primary.

[schragge]

To be sure, can you please also post the output of


sudo fdisk -l # <- it's the lowercase letter 'ell'

[surati]

What I would like to know is, what is -inside- the extended partition, if these are 3 logical or 3 primary partitions....here the screenshot.

[surati]

255 Köpfe, 63 Sektoren/Spur, 38913 Zylinder, zusammen 625142448 Sektoren
Einheiten = Sektoren von 1 × 512 = 512 Bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Festplattenidentifikation: 0x04f75401

Gerät boot. Anfang Ende Blöcke Id System
/dev/sdb1 2048 246306815 123152384 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
/dev/sdb2 246308862 378900479 66295809 5 Erweiterte
/dev/sdb3 * 378900480 624156671 122628096 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
/dev/sdb5 246308864 253114367 3402752 82 Linux Swap / Solaris
/dev/sdb6 253116416 304726015 25804800 83 Linux
/dev/sdb7 304728064 378118143 36695040 83 Linux

Platte /dev/sdc: 2012 MByte, 2012217344 Byte
64 Köpfe, 46 Sektoren/Spur, 1334 Zylinder, zusammen 3930112 Sektoren
Einheiten = Sektoren von 1 × 512 = 512 Bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Festplattenidentifikation: 0xc3072e18

Gerät boot. Anfang Ende Blöcke Id System
/dev/sdc1 * 24 3930111 1965044 b W95 FAT32

[offgridguy]

What I would like to know is, what is -inside- the extended partition, if these are 3 logical or 3 primary partitions....here the screenshot.
These are logical partitions within the extended. Note the no.'s
sda 5,6 etc. Numbers 1-4 are reserved for primary.

[surati]

Thats good to know. So I can only wonder, once again, why through windows eyes things looks different...the driver manager shows these 3 logical partitions as primery.
My problem is actualy that I cannt install windwos8 while the first driver is hidden. W8 resists to use the mbr of the first driver....

[Morbius1]

I can't quite follow this topic. Please post the output of the following command:

sudo parted -l

[surati]

(Now I see clearly that these are logical partitions...)


ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ sudo parted -l
Modell: ATA Hitachi HTS72503 (scsi)
Festplatte /dev/sda: 320GB
Sektorgröße (logisch/physisch): 512B/512B
Partitionstabelle: msdos

Nummer Anfang Ende Größe Typ Dateisystem Flags
1 32,3kB 214MB 214MB primary fat16 diag
2 214MB 10,6GB 10,4GB primary ntfs versteckt
3 10,6GB 319GB 309GB primary ntfs boot


Modell: ATA Hitachi HTS72503 (scsi)
Festplatte /dev/sdb: 320GB
Sektorgröße (logisch/physisch): 512B/512B
Partitionstabelle: msdos

Nummer Anfang Ende Größe Typ Dateisystem Flags
1 1049kB 126GB 126GB primary ntfs
2 126GB 194GB 67,9GB extended
5 126GB 130GB 3484MB logical linux-swap(v1)
6 130GB 156GB 26,4GB logical ext4
7 156GB 194GB 37,6GB logical ext4
3 194GB 320GB 126GB primary ntfs boot


Modell: UFD 2.0 Silicon-Power2G (scsi)
Festplatte /dev/sdc: 2012MB
Sektorgröße (logisch/physisch): 512B/512B
Partitionstabelle: msdos

Nummer Anfang Ende Größe Typ Dateisystem Flags
1 12,3kB 2012MB 2012MB primary fat32 boot


ubuntu@ubuntu:~$

[darkod]

Thats good to know. So I can only wonder, once again, why through windows eyes things looks different...the driver manager shows these 3 logical partitions as primery.
My problem is actualy that I cannt install windwos8 while the first driver is hidden. W8 resists to use the mbr of the first driver....

Windfows doesn't understand linux partitions, so it can show the logical partitions as primary in Disk Management. Ignore that and do not handle those partition with windows Disk Management.

The same happens on my PC, they are shown as primary with the correct size, which is not true.

As for installing win8, you have both your disks full with partitions, no unallocated space to use. Where do you plan to install win8?

[Cheesemill]

What I would like to know is, what is -inside- the extended partition, if these are 3 logical or 3 primary partitions....here the screenshot.

Partitions inside an extended partition are always logical, that is the definition of a logical partition.

You are allowed a maximum of 4 primary partitions per disc, one (and only one) of these can be an extended partition instead. Inside this extended partition you are allowed any number of logical partitions.


These are logical partitions within the extended. Note the no.'s
sda 5,6 etc. Numbers 1-4 are reserved for primary.
Not true.
That is how the numbering usually ends up but there is nothing in the specifications that demands it.
You can have sda1 as an extended and 2,3,4 as logical if you want to.

[darkod]

Not true.
That is how the numbering usually ends up but there is nothing in the specifications that demands it.
You can have sda1 as an extended and 2,3,4 as logical if you want to.

I believe what he meant was that 5+ is reserved for logical, how linux will show it, not whether the physical location on the disk is second, third, etc.

Yes, the extended can have any number 1-4 but I also believe 5+ is reserved for the logicals. I still haven't seen a logical partition being /dev/sda2. Is that really possible?

[surati]

As for installing win8, you have both your disks full with partitions, no unallocated space to use. Where do you plan to install win8?

You are right, there is no more place...but thats because I gave up and already installed w8 on sdb3 - without hidding the first hd. Its an evaluation-version and in 3 months I will have to install it again, on the same partition. I hope untill then to find a solutoin......

[dorruk]

The Intel/PC partitioning rule is, you can have as many logical partitions as you like if they are end to end. An extended partition is the placeholder for all of your logical partitions. So when you store data on an extended, it's called a logical.

In this partitioning system, your logicals are held as one block under the name of an extended partition. For this reason, your logicals must be juxtapose so your PC can handle your logicals as one block.

Some correct partitioning examples:


Primary - Primary - Primary - Logical - Logical - Logical - Logical - Logical
Primary - Primary - Primary - Primary
Primary - Primary - Logical - Logical - Logical - Primary

Some incorrect examples:


Primary - Primary - Primary - Logical - Primary
Primary - Logical - Primary - Logical - Primary

[darkod]

You are right, there is no more place...but thats because I gave up and already installed w8 on sdb3 - without hidding the first hd. Its an evaluation-version and in 3 months I will have to install it again, on the same partition. I hope untill then to find a solutoin......

I am not sure why win8 would complain. One reason would be if it wanted to create the small System Reserved partition and it couldn't because you already have many partitions.

Also, if installing multiple windows OS you need to be careful about the boot files because it can combine boot files on the partition where the boot flag is. I am not sure if it does that only when you have two windows OS on the same disk, or also when they are on different disks.

One thing you can try during the next win8 install is having the partition prepared in advance (don't create it from unpartitioned space with the installer). You already have the partition, you have win8 on sdb3 now. In the next install simply select Advanced options in the partitioning, format the same partition and use it as destination. I think it will install without any problems.

You shouldn't need to do any special "hiding" of the sda disk.

[surati]

You shouldn't need to do any special "hiding" of the sda disk. But thats my point...
I want W8 to be installd on sdb without interfering in sda, without taking over other boot loaders (w7).
In this way I could start W7 directly from sda with the one-time-menu and grubs menu will start ubuntu & W8 from sdb.
At the moment W8 "controls" W7´s bootloader, choosing W7 in the menu, brings the computer first to reboot instead of direct loading W7, thats anoying...
I can live with it, but I´m too curious to know what´s the problem.....and I guess it belongs to a windows forum.
Thank you anyway for the help!

[darkod]

Correct. It belongs to a windows forum. The problem is that during installation windows doesn't give you option for bootloader destination, like linux does. So you can't control where it goes. It puts it where ever it thinks it should.

That's why when installing second windows version on a separate disk it's better to disconnect the first disk.

One option is to create the partition for the second windows in advance, put a boot flag on it, and also in bios set the second disk as first booting option. Only after that start the windows installer. In that case it might put the bootloader on the second disk because it will see it's first in the boot order, and it will put its boot files on the same partition as the OS since it has the boot flag. But I'm not sure if that would work as it should or not.

That's why it's better to have manual option where to put the bootloader but with windows you don't have that.

[surati]

"....and also in bios set the second disk as first booting option."I didnt try it yet, sounds like a good idee!

Thanks for the Information.

(And maybe someday I would get along without windows... I hope until then ubuntu would still remain free....)

[offgridguy]

Not true.
That is how the numbering usually ends up but there is nothing in the specifications that demands it.
You can have sda1 as an extended and 2,3,4 as logical if you want to.
The info I have read disagrees with that, example.

http://tldp.org/HOWTO/html_single/Partition/#logical

2.1.3. Logical Partitions

Table 5. Logical Partitions

drive name drive controller drive number partition type partition number
/dev/hdb1 1 2 primary 1
/dev/hdb2 1 2 extended NA
/dev/hda5 1 2 logical 2
/dev/hdb6 1 2 logical 3

The table above illustrates a mysterious jump in the name assignments. This is due to the use of logical partitions (see Section 3.4, which always start with 5, for reasons explained later.

[JKyleOKC]

I want W8 to be installed on sdb without interfering in sda, without taking over other boot loaders (w7).In this case, your safest option would be to physically disconnect sda when installing W8; it would then find only one drive, and would replace the boot loader on that drive. You could then reconnect sda, and use the boot-time hot key (F12 on my system but may be different on yours) to select which drive to boot from.

W8 will undoubtedly destroy the Ubuntu boot loader during the installation, but you should be able to boot from a Live CD/USB and run Boot-Repair to put it back properly.

[offgridguy]

The gparted tutorial is very helpful at explaining partitions, read it here.

http://dedoimedo.com/computers/gparted.html

Partitions also have another important element: they can be primary or logical. Primary partitions are just that, a total of four of which can exist on any one hard disk. To reiterate, there can be only up to four primary partitions on a hard disk. If you have three hard disks on your machine, each one can still hold up to four primary partitions.

Logical partitions have been created to overcome the inherent numerical limitation of primary partitions. One of the primary partitions can be created as the Extended partition. This partition acts as a container for logical partitions. The total number of logical partitions you can create (and use) depends on the disk type and the operating system you're using. For all practical purposes, the number is beyond the needs of any user.

As you can see, we have up to four primary partitions and a de-facto unlimited number of logical ones. Notation-wise, the primary partitions will always be the first four, logical partitions will start with number 5.

Therefore, when someone says sda5, it necessarily means we're talking about a logical partition. Similarly, any partition with a number equal or higher than 5 will always be a logical partition.

[JKyleOKC]

Therefore, when someone says sda5, it necessarily means we're talking about a logical partition. Similarly, any partition with a number equal or higher than 5 will always be a logical partition.Unless, of course, it's a machine bought new during the last year or two that uses the GPT partitioning scheme instead of the until-now-universal MBR partition table. The GPT approach allows up to 128 primary partitions and no logicals at all. Any machine that comes from the factory with Win8 installed will probably be using GPT, so take the quoted post with extreme caution.

[offgridguy]

Unless, of course, it's a machine bought new during the last year or two that uses the GPT partitioning scheme instead of the until-now-universal MBR partition table. The GPT approach allows up to 128 primary partitions and no logicals at all. Any machine that comes from the factory with Win8 installed will probably be using GPT, so take the quoted post with extreme caution.
Thanks for the clarification JKyleOKC, I was actually wondering
about this. Plus the quoted tutorial is dated.

[JKyleOKC]

Here's a more up-to-date link: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI

[offgridguy]

Here's a more up-to-date link: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
Thanks for the link, increasingly important as more and more
threads are dealing with install and boot issues regarding the
newer UEFI mode.