Ubuntu a newbie distro? or just another lie?

[akurashy]

Well I was talking with some linux users. In a IRC server, they know about ubuntu yes yes, They say is great but is "like" a "newbie" distro. Starting to think of his line, I know Ubuntu is friendly, extremely stable *for me at least*, but a "newbie" distro..
I don't think it is.. dunno what other people have in opinion.

[Rotarychainsaw]

I say that there is no such thing as newbie linux. I mean you can still mess up ubuntu if you try.

[telmo]

hmmm... i see... Well... you can spend A DAY installing Gentoo... maybe that will make it more pro! No, just kidding... I've tried over thirty distros (including Gentoo), and let me tell you something... Ubuntu is the best one i've tried. And i don't say this because it 'just works', as you know, Ubuntu (or any other distro, for that matter) doesn't recognize every Hardware available, so you need to find out how to configure it, most of the times. I think that is what helps us to know a little of Linux. But... never i have seen such a fast; reliable and FREE Linux distribution anywhere.

Ubuntu is AMAZING! I mean, have you taken a peek at Hoary? Why should you bother trying any other linux's if this one works!? And... it's cutting edge! ;)

Once... i was a Fedora user... then somewhere in their forum, i heard of Ubuntu, and came to take a look... I stayed, like many of other Fedora users.

I like to think of Ubuntu as Debian's younger and radical son... I love it!

And hey, if you want to be a programmer (or pro) you can be it at Ubuntu!

[defkewl]

I thought it was Mandrake that was a newbie distro. Hmh, I must have got the wrong information.

[telmo]

I thought it was Mandrake that was a newbie distro. Hmh, I must have got the wrong information.

:-$ don't tell anyone... LOL

[jeremy]

I tried several distros (including Mandrake) as a newbie, before settling on ubuntu. Ubuntu was the only one that I managed to get my head around, and make all my hardware work.

[Knome_fan]

I think being called a noob distro is a compliment in that it means ubuntu is easy to use and works. So in that regard, ubuntu is a noob distro and that's great.

Now if those leet IRC users meant noob in that it is not suited for l33t hax0rs like them, that is a pretty unintelligent thing to say about a distro that is basicly a debian unstable under the hood.

[TravisNewman]

I see your point, but whenever anyone calls any distro/app/whatever noob or l33t I just stop listening. Come to think of it, whenever I see noob or l33t I just stop reading. I can't stand that crap.

But my point is, I don't care if people think it's noob or l33t or whatever distribution, I want to know what it's capabilities are. I don't think Ubuntu has lied about it's abilities, etc. I can't say its a "noob" distro, because nothing is noob. Windows isn't noob, nor is MacOSX. There's a learning curve with everything. It's totally relative.

[blinksilver]

i agree, an os is not an mmorpg, what make an os "pro" is that it turn a desktop or laptop into a workstation, ubuntu does this with style, i mean, every day i boot up to a new update, my system stays cuting edge without losing usablity (can someone say emerge world, and tell when it is done, i need to go read the dictionary) think about it every second you save on gentoo, you loose 3 on portage (which is really cool beyond that), the other OS choices, are too slow (OS X) or not lacking important features, (cygwin cant do everything)

ubuntu is just plain great.

[Buffalo Soldier]

I'll take that as a compliment. But honestly I think Ubuntu strike a balance between easy for beginners yet flexible enough to veterans to tweak and customize.

Then again, this illusive middle ground may differ from one person to another. But with so many distro around, there's bound to be a perfect (or near-perfect) distro for everyone.

[gw90se]

As a "noob" I can say that Ubuntu was the perfect distro for me. My reasoning behind this was due to trying several and having a terrible time with set-up. Then I researched and read. Ubuntu had seemily less install problems. But the final decision was made after visiting the support forums for the various distros. It just seemed to me that the level of help and assistance were better here.

In fact, I just gave my windows box to my son. I am only Ubuntu at home, now.

[CowPie]

Ubuntu is a good newbie distro because of the freedesktop.org stuff, project utopia, etc.

[HungSquirrel]

It's a newbie friendly distro, but it doesn't have training wheels for those who like to do things their way, like Mandrake for example.

[defkewl]

But my point is, I don't care if people think it's noob or l33t or whatever distribution, I want to know what it's capabilities are. I don't think Ubuntu has lied about it's abilities, etc. I can't say its a "noob" distro, because nothing is noob. Windows isn't noob, nor is MacOSX. There's a learning curve with everything. It's totally relative.
I liked your words. Nicely said. I think that whether a distro is newbie or advanced is a matter of preference and mind. Some people might say that Ubuntu is an advanced distro. It all depends from which perspective you're looking. Why would it matter anyway whether Ubuntu is newbie or not? All of these distro are made to meet your preferences not to show how good you're using it.

[akurashy]

I really don't agree with any term "noob" or "newbie" It just kinda an insult for the developers *maybe*, I think I stick with "friendly" and easy, unless the terms are used wrong. =/

[TravisNewman]

Interestingly enough, my software engineering professor in college HATED the term "friendly" or "user-friendly" because, to quote him, "Your computer will not listen to your problems and provide advice. It won't grow an arm to pat you on the back when you've done a good job. It has no biology, no personality. It CAN NOT be friendly." According to him, the correct term is "usable" or "easy to use." and it does make more sense, though "user-friendly" is such a widely accepted term, I don't think it'll be dropped anytime soon.

[carlc]

I believe the only reasons to call Ubuntu a newbie distro are that it is easy to install and it actually works. However, these are good things, right? Once installed, what limitations would it have compared to a distro such as Gentoo?

[TravisNewman]

gentoo? well, it's not totally compiled and optimized for your system for one thing, though-- WHO CARES? I notice VERY little difference between Gentoo and Ubuntu speedwise.

[Buffalo Soldier]

I really don't agree with any term "noob" or "newbie" It just kinda an insult for the developers *maybe*, I think I stick with "friendly" and easy, unless the terms are used wrong. =/I don't think the term newbie or noob has a negative connotation to it. In fact in the context of being called a newbie Linux implied that it's easy for the beginners to use. For some that's compliment and not an insult.

[Zundfolge]

There are a lot of Linux users (particularly long time users) who have their whole identity wrapped up in the fact that they are "elite linux geeks" ... to these people the idea that a Linux distro is even usable by non ELG's is just offensive. (I used to work with one ... he was completely offended by the existence of a GUI for Linux :rolleyes: )

This is the essence of elitism ... when you bring out a product that is usable by the "unwashed masses" then the elites get their panties in a bunch because soon they may not be all that special :p

I started out with Mandrake and still consider myself a "newbie" and I think Ubuntu is an excellent distro for us newbies because it does "just work" ... if it didn't "just work" I'd have to switch back to Windows.

[mario8723]

I couldn't agree more. I recently switched over to Hoary and "it just works". Compared to a Suse 8.1 installation I tried 2 years ago which I eventually gave up on because I couldn't get the damn thing to install, Ubuntu is a dream.

The only problem I had "out of the box" was with sound. Everything else was recognized and I was off to the races immediately. Us "noobs" have a problem when we start tweaking, and trying to customize everything (at least that's my problem :-D ).

Seriously though, I think Ubuntu has done an excellent job with this distro! Even my wife uses it :grin:

[akurashy]

I don't think the term newbie or noob has a negative connotation to it. In fact in the context of being called a newbie Linux implied that it's easy for the beginners to use. For some that's compliment and not an insult.

I know is not, but is the way of how the USER say it, like "OMG your a damn noob! go away". Those are the term that I'm saying, of course those terms belongs to the people who thinks they are "1337" and can hack anyone O_o. (depends on the user way of thinking :P)

[timczer]

I get confused when this discussion comes up regarding a "newbie" distro. I am new at working with linux, starting with FC3 and deciding to try Ubuntu when reading some posts on it. I now have both linux os's on my box as well as Windows XP (which I now only seem to use to play on line poker. When will PartyPoker catch on to Linux?). Aren't things supposed to work? Since when is getting things right and putting out a good product a bad thing? The last I checked, most of use computers to get things done and a system that you can get started quickly and get things done efficiently on would seem to me to be the goal.

As an added thought, I have enjoyed using Ubuntu and learning its capabilities and following all the posts in the forums. I have learned more in less time with Ubuntu than I ever did with FC3. it is an active and helpful community, and what more do you need to recommend a distro than that?

[shimon]

Well I was talking with some linux users. In a IRC server, they know about ubuntu yes yes, They say is great but is "like" a "newbie" distro. Starting to think of his line, I know Ubuntu is friendly, extremely stable *for me at least*, but a "newbie" distro..
I don't think it is.. dunno what other people have in opinion.
LOL i never knew after i told you, you will make a thread.

Don't make me tell you again the answer is YES!

[akurashy]

LOL i never knew after i told you, you will make a thread.

Don't make me tell you again the answer is YES!

*wonders who is this guy* err who are you?
i really don't know you :|

[kassetra]

According to him, the correct term is "usable" or "easy to use." and it does make more sense, though "user-friendly" is such a widely accepted term, I don't think it'll be dropped anytime soon.

The first thing you are taught if you go into user interface design is that there is no such thing as "friendly interfaces" be it computer, electronic or otherwise. They drill that into your head. "Usable" is the correct term. heh.

With that in mind, I'll give a quick little synopsis of the design theory between people & machinery (gotta use that college learnings some time!).

99% of people can recognize, remember, and learn to distinguish human faces - without any knowledge of language, or use of any higher cognitive resources. Since the face is so easily accessible - it is the perfect example of "usability." heh. The goal of any user interface developer/designer is to find elements that can be learned and remembered with as little effort as facial recognition.

So how does this relate to "newbie" or "leet" Linux users? Ahhhh... my specialty...

The quirks:
When studying the brain of a person that is an automotive enthusiast that recognizes, remembers, and can distinguish many makes, models, years of vehicles - it was discovered that those individuals recognize these cars like faces! It turns out that many different kinds of "enthusiasts" recognize their specialty like faces as well: Daffodil breeders, Animal breeders, *AND* Computer Engineers / Programmers... But just because a car enthusiast can remember those cars, doesn't mean that person can remember different flowers... It's based within that person what kind of recognition they adapt to...

So... Let's say an engineer develops a way of talking to his computer through typing in basic commands. Now, let's say he can remember and recognize the commands and such as faces ... obviously to him, it's just as natural as recognizing the faces of his kids.

So now we get to our distro question - it's not a matter of newbie or leet unix geek. It's a matter of what kind of "face" you can recognize and remember.

Some people recognize and remember commands like faces (many of these people are hard-core command line and/or "leet" unix/linux geeks -- which as you can see now, is a bogus term.)

Most people, however, remember objects and images ... If you create a distribution of Linux that gives users a "clear path" to do what it is they want to do - they will most likely remember how to do things -- just like they can remember and recognize who their mother is in a crowd of people. (Now, many "leet" geeks call these people "newbies" ... which is another bogus term!)

Hope that clarifies a bit. heh.

[poofyhairguy]

Well I was talking with some linux users. In a IRC server, they know about ubuntu yes yes, They say is great but is "like" a "newbie" distro. Starting to think of his line, I know Ubuntu is friendly, extremely stable *for me at least*, but a "newbie" distro..
I don't think it is.. dunno what other people have in opinion.


I don't think Ubuntu is a noob distro. Noob distros need more GUI configuration programs that Ubuntu has. Something like YAST or Mandrake's tools.

That said, I don't find Ubuntu's tools lacking. But some people want GUIs for things like services and such.

If Ubuntu is called a noob distro, its because its has great autodetection and TONS of packages that install as easy as can be. Installing packages from source is one thing I really dislike to do (and think is hard to do), so the more packages I have the easier an distro is. Personally, the harder distros are ones that require compiling everything from source (IMHO).

[LongTooth]

'Nothing breeds success like success'. Somebody said that. Can't remember who. But he was correct. I've been at this Linux 'thing' for some years and still have problems with certain things. But success and easy of use and a great forum for assistance was just around the corner - Ununtu! I could care less what others call this fine distro. But I know for sure it can be used by the power user as well as the everyday user. I hope it's around for a long time. I've found a home; A Linux home.

[bored2k]

'Nothing breeds success like success'. Somebody said that. Can't remember who. But he was correct. I've been at this Linux 'thing' for some years and still have problems with certain things. But success and easy of use and a great forum for assistance was just around the corner - Ununtu! I could care less what others call this fine distro. But I know for sure it can be used by the power user as well as the everyday user. I hope it's around for a long time. I've found a home; A Linux home.
This is why I love Linux so much . The ability to learn. Sure I can have my brother sit here and browse his files and the web like a breeze. But the more you use it, the more tricks/different methods one finds. During my last month on my other OS, I found myself not learning no useful tricks for everyday use for long periods of time, wich annoyed me. Sure you can use winkey+e/mouse clicks for the rest of your days, but one way or another most of what we learn here we use regularly and are kept fresh in our memories :D .

[poofyhairguy]

Hope that clarifies a bit. heh.


Yep it does.......


The message it clear- I need to study more in college so I can write replys like that!

[carlc]

If you create a distribution of Linux that gives users a "clear path" to do what it is they want to do - they will most likely remember how to do things

I think the reason that I like Ubuntu so much is that it has provided me with the "clearest" path. The distro itself along with Chua Wen Kiat's starter guide and a helpful forum have helped me to finally get a linux distro set up so that everything works and I am no longer browsing for another option to try. There also seem to be less people interested in a one up position ready to post a lengthy "RTFM" response when they could have just remained slient.

[totalshredder]

I thought it was Mandrake that was a newbie distro. Hmh, I must have got the wrong information.

The reason mandrake is not a newbie distro is because; 1. It's not free; 2. It's too complicated to install software (which leads to) 3. It's on too many disks.

I'm not joking on any of these; back in the olden days when I was a complete newbie (aka; right now). I had a lot of trouble with mandrake, and it really annoyed me how it wasn't free. I wanted to be "FREE". Installing software was to hard to do, synaptic is a lot easier to use IMHO.

Lucas

[kassetra]

Yep it does.......


The message it clear- I need to study more in college so I can write replys like that!

eeep. I was hoping to enlighten not spout acadaemia-laced fluff.

Ok, time to look into editing to make myself clearer.

(p.s. just for the record, the term "newbie" as applied to most linux users is a misnomer. Many people are "new to linux" or "new2l" but the original definition of newbie, as in, a person who is new to the internet, uhhhhh, just doesn't apply very much anymore... heh.)

[jwb]

Any time I hear that "noob" crap I wanna puke......

Try Ubuntu. Try whatever you like. If the term "noob" insults your intelligence or makes you feel less than "manly", the problem isn't with *any* distro.

Here's a really, really good tip on taking advice on stuff like computers, distros, etc. The ones talking the loudest are usually full of crap.

The guy who lets them babble on and says "well, it's up to you" and leaves it at that is usually the guy you should listen to.

A good example- when I was first getting into computers, I was really interested in designing web pages. Everyone I knew was telling was telling me "Frontpage 98, Frontpage 98". Except for this one, kinda quiet, crusty guy. I asked him what he thought. He said "you might want to consider learning to code by hand first." I told him all the arguments I'd heard from all the other *loud* people. His response? "OK. Your call." He never brought it up again.

And you know what I found out very shortly thereafter- he was right, the rest were full of it.

Just try the dang distro. If you like it, great. If you don't like it, great. YOU make the decision. Not a bunch of pasty-faced 'friends" on IRC who probably look and sound like Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons.

Grrrr......

[poofyhairguy]

eeep. I was hoping to enlighten not spout acadaemia-laced fluff.



And I was hoping you would take it as a complement....

I personally like to sound smart...

[jdodson]

ubuntu is no more newbish that debian is because they are practically the same. ever installed debian sarge? the installers are shockingly similar(because they are). ubuntu removes some video card selection stuff, but by and large, the install proccess is the same.

ubuntu doesn't even have a GUI installer. some feel that is a turn off and makes it "harder" to use. ubuntu comes with LESS GUI config tools than fedora. is fedora a newb distro? i don't think so.

ubuntu is very gnome and debian centric, so if ubuntu is for newbs, then both projects are newb projects. gnome runs a livecd based on ubuntu, therefore the gnome developers must be newbs right? wrong. running a system easy to install and maintain doesnt make you stupid.

remember that all gnu/linuxers are "renegades" of the computing world. we run a nitch OS that few entities consider "desktop ready." yet it is desktop ready and my desktop is proof of that. let us remember what we are using, compare ubuntu to windows OS or mac OS and i really would not use "newb" to describe it.

[akurashy]

I think ubuntu/or any other linux distro goal is to give the user a easy replacement on windows, and make the user feel comfortable in his desktop pc. it doesn't really matter if it mandrake, red hat, gentoo, fedora, in this years i see that linux installations and stuff are getting more easier than it was before, doesn't matter if a distro is called "newbie" or "noobish" more important is to make the user feel protected and satisfied. IMO

[blinksilver]

this is really off topic, but "please don't hate me because I'm GNU" thats great, i have seen it around, but i thought i would say so.

[jdodson]

this is really off topic, but "please don't hate me because I'm GNU" thats great, i have seen it around, but i thought i would say so.

DOH! so much for being original, i thought i came up with it. i guess its not a big deal, with a zillion people in the world there is bound to be overlap somewhere 8)

[Quest-Master]

People like to believe TRUE Linux is spending hours of work and sweat on getting a fine and perfectly working desktop like Ubuntu.

I believe otherwise. So what, it's built to help newbies get into Linux. Is that really such a sin?

[Kakalto]

People like to believe TRUE Linux is spending hours of work and sweat on getting a fine and perfectly working desktop like Ubuntu.

I believe otherwise. So what, it's built to help newbies get into Linux. Is that really such a sin?
The idea comes to mind, of "Quick to Install, Slow to Master".

I think it's great if it's easy to install, but I also think that if people are willing to go the extra yard, they should be able to customize, etc. till their heart's are content.