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Nagantman
December 10th, 2012, 03:07 AM
Assumed this was the right category since i'm fairly new to Linux and my mom is completely new. Heres the deal I just dual booted my old Dell Dimension 2400 with Ubuntu 12.04. The other operating system on the computer is Windows XP. I love Ubuntu it runs faster and better on the old desktop. I'm also beginning to learn how to program using c++. But my Mom has been giving me flak because when she wants to use the computer she wants to use XP. She knows pretty much nothing about computers and has tried Ubuntu. I explain to her how the computer runs much faster using Ubuntu than Windows XP. Her main excuse for not wanting to use Ubuntu is, she likes her current setup and she is use to it. I don't understand since she only uses a web browser xD (which also runs faster on Ubuntu). Any ideas to convince?

CharlesA
December 10th, 2012, 03:11 AM
Easy: Don't bother. Just dual boot and leave it be.

Forcing someone to use something different leads to problems and unless you are willing to offer support for anything and everything, it is better to let them use what they know.

SparkyPrawn
December 10th, 2012, 03:14 AM
Remove Windows XP completely!
Just kidding.

Honestly, people are resistant to change and like things the way they have used them, which is often the way they feel comfortable with. You can't really argue against that, and if she has used Ubuntu and dislikes it, then she dislikes it.

You could explain your reasons behind using it, but in the end, its her choice. Don't cause a rift in your family.

monkeybrain2012
December 10th, 2012, 03:18 AM
Well put something that looks like Windows XP in there such as Linux Mint or Lubuntu with a Windows wall paper she wouldn't know the difference. :)

Nagantman
December 10th, 2012, 03:21 AM
I do offer support constantly xD. But yeah I guess I just thought it was a win, win since its prettier than Windows XP by a huge stretch, and its quicker. Guess i'll just have to make do until I can get my own comp.

haqking
December 10th, 2012, 03:26 AM
Well put something that looks like Windows XP in there such as Linux Mint or Lubuntu with a Windows wall paper she wouldn't know the difference. :)

no Linux distro "looks like anything" it is the DE which creates the appearance. Linux mint looks completely different depending on which version you download, KDE, Cinnamon, Mate etc...and no need to download a different distro as any of the DE can be installed to any distro.

I hear alot about how a Distro looks, a Distro looks like its DE allows it to look.

monkeybrain2012
December 10th, 2012, 03:30 AM
no Linux distro "looks like anything" it is the DE which creates the appearance. Linux mint looks completely different depending on which version you download, KDE, Cinnamon, Mate etc...and no need to download a different distro as any of the DE can be installed to any distro.

I hear alot about how a Distro looks, a Distro looks like its DE allows it to look.

Stop nitpicking, it was a joke, ok. :)

haqking
December 10th, 2012, 03:32 AM
Stop nitpicking, it was a joke, ok. :)

It is a support forum, be specific.

There is a big difference between a Distro and a DE, the OP is new to linux, i prefer people to have accurate information. We get enough pointless threads about Unity hatred blah blah because people confuse a Distro with a DE, if people were made more aware of the difference and the ability to use any DE they like in any distro it would reduce the whining (well probably wouldnt) but you know what i mean ;-)

Peace

Nagantman
December 10th, 2012, 03:38 AM
Lmao ^ couldn't have said it better myself haqking

LillyDragon
December 10th, 2012, 03:51 AM
I do offer support constantly xD. But yeah I guess I just thought it was a win, win since its prettier than Windows XP by a huge stretch, and its quicker. Guess i'll just have to make do until I can get my own comp.

If it's not even your computer why bother forcing her to use something so alien to her? Seriously, why even dual boot if you're discouraging your mother from touching XP? XD

When she wants to use it, just reboot into XP, and reboot again when you're back on yourself; simple as that. You have your favorite OS and she has hers.

If the boot process takes too long, (On Windows anyway. =P) trying cleaning up the registry and startup with CCleaner. I know my Windows install would be a bloody wreck without letting it clear my temp caches and registry once every day. XD

QIII
December 10th, 2012, 03:56 AM
If you use a DE that you can make look exactly like XP and expect mom not to notice, you may succeed ... in deceiving your own mom.

Linux evangelism by subterfuge. That should be fine. People love to find out they have been duped.

KiwiNZ
December 10th, 2012, 03:56 AM
If it is her computer it is her choice, end of story.

1clue
December 10th, 2012, 04:08 AM
OK I have two separate scenarios where I tried to convince a family member, failed miserably and then much later they changed their minds.

First was my parents, trying to get them to use a computer at all. I literally bought them a brand new computer and put it on their desks and taught them to use it, in hopes they would use a computer and contact us with email. No luck, finally took it back and used it myself. If they don't want it, you won't EVER get them to use it. Years later, my dad bought an old junk pc from a rummage sale for $10. He used that for 6 months playing solitaire (OK he spends about that much on decks of cards in that time, so I guess it's fine). About 6 months after that, he called me up and said Walmart had computers for $350. I told him to write down 5 things that he would do with a computer, games included. He did, I went out and bought them another computer (for quite a bit more than $350) and they used it for years.

Next thing, actually relating to Linux: My fiancee (now my wife) had a laptop with Vista on it. I had/have a Linux box with an i7 and whatever-the-current-distro on it, currently Xubuntu.

She was getting viruses every 3 days or so. Facebook mostly I think. I bought a spare disk, swapped out the existing one and installed Ubuntu. She didn't like it. I changed it back. Then she got viruses again. I made an account for her on the i7 box and showed her how to use it, and kept scraping the viruses off her laptop. I did NOT make it look like Windows, but I made it as simple as I could. She never used it while I was home, but I kept finding her account logged in, and after awhile she didn't bother getting off the computer anymore. After awhile she suggested I put Ubuntu back on her laptop.

The thing in common with BOTH of these, and with many other attempts to convince people, is that you can't tell somebody to buy what they're not shopping for. You can't make it look "just like Windows" because then they're always comparing it to Windows and ABSOLUTELY EVERY DIFFERENCE IS A FLAW, because YOU set the standard to be Windows.

People aren't dummies, even people who aren't computer nerds. Just let them play with a nice simple installation, and they'll like it or not. Answer questions but otherwise keep your mouth shut. They'll either sell it to themselves or they'll never use it.

Linux is different. That's OK. Even regular people get into that. Android came from Linux. Tell them that, and that it's just something different. Don't try to make it look like Windows or Mac or anything else, just make it easy to use, make sure it has a couple good alternatives for the software they regularly use and let them play on their own terms. Zero pressure, even if it takes months. It took my wife months, but she finally decided to use Linux over Vista, for her own reasons.

Nagantman
December 10th, 2012, 04:09 AM
If it's not even your computer why bother forcing her to use something so alien to her? Seriously, why even dual boot if you're discouraging your mother from touching XP? XD
I'm not forcing at all lol.

drawkcab
December 10th, 2012, 05:34 AM
Yell at her for being an inflexible old person who is being left behind by the continuing advance of technology and/or the the continuing advance of personal freedoms through FOSS.

Force her to use Kubuntu or Xubuntu (not Gnome Shell or Unity) for a few weeks and then she'll be used to that.

alphacrucis2
December 10th, 2012, 05:36 AM
Sooner or later she will have to learn something new. Windows 8 will probably be just as alien looking as out of the box ubuntu if not more so.

DuckHook
December 10th, 2012, 05:36 AM
mmm... I think some of us are not seeing all of the OP's picture...


...I just dual booted my old Dell Dimension 2400 with Ubuntu 12.04.

and


I'm also beginning to learn how to program using c++.So:

1. @Nagantman has already accommodated his mother by setting up a dual boot, and
2. He has a real and legitimate reason to run Linux, since Linux is what he needs as his learning base.

Therefore:

Nagantman, your real issue isn't convincing your Mom about the virtues of Linux. The posters who have responded by saying that people have to come to their own conclusions about OSes are correct, and you won't get very far trying to sell it. However, if I know mothers, you will get some serious mileage if you point out to her that by allowing you to boot into Linux, she is enhancing your learning and expanding your future career choices. This is something every mother wants to hear and has the fundamental virtue of being entirely true.

You don't need to "convert" your mother to Linux. You just need to convince her of the need for your use of Linux. If she eventually comes along, fine. If not, also fine. But you will have set out the reasons for your own use, and she will put up with dual boot because she will understand the need for it.

LillyDragon
December 10th, 2012, 05:38 AM
I'm not forcing at all lol.

How is that any different from forcing her to use a totally different OS on her computer? XP is dirt old and I don't trust it as far as I can throw it on the Internet, but if she wants to stick something slow and scrapping across the carpet like a dying animal, let her, it's her machine. It won't affect your Linux install if XP gets a virus or spyware anyway, so this is no skin off your nose either way, why care?

You're lucky she even let you install Ubuntu onto the thing in the first place; my parents were always kinda iffy about installing something other than Windows on the family computer, even though my Dad was constantly catching some form of spyware on the thing, forcing us to reinstall Windows XP at least three to four times, over the course of several years, because it was just that bad. We even got a modem virus once, and yes those do exist.

They could have used a dual-boot of Ubuntu from how dispruptive that scary virus nonsense was, and we even lost a whole months of pictures from not backing them up before reinstalling on one ocassion, but nooooo. I wanted to setup a file sharing network with my dad, but never got around to it because I didn't want to risk my own computer getting a worm from the family machine while I was booted into Windows.

tl;dr, there's no convincing her; don't even try. If my parents' computing preferences are anything to go by, there's no way your mom is willing to learn something new when she already has something that works. It's not that she can't "get" Linux, she just doesn't care for it. Buy a cheap refurbished machine for yourself off TigerDirect when you can and not even worry about it. Seriously, decent desktop computers are getting cheaper and cheaper. XD

Also, this sums everything I just said in one sentence.


If it is her computer it is her choice, end of story.

EDIT



You don't need to "convert" your mother to Linux. You just need to convince her of the need for your use of Linux. If she eventually comes along, fine. If not, also fine. But you will have set out the reasons for your own use, and she will put up with dual boot because she will understand the need for it.

This post totally ninja'd me, but that does bring up a good point.

Jakin
December 10th, 2012, 09:23 AM
USB key, let her try it. She will let you know if she wants a full install.

mips
December 10th, 2012, 12:19 PM
if it is her computer it is her choice, end of story.

+ 1000000

Bucky Ball
December 10th, 2012, 12:50 PM
Hitting her with Unity is not a good start as that is totally alien to an XP user.

As suggested much earlier, lxde or xfce desktop would be much better (and faster than what you have now).

But I totally agree with much of what's been said. Dual-boot and let it be; if it's her computer, end of story, etc etc. Because you love the OS doesn't mean she is ever going to.

Best option? Try to get your hands on an old computer, install Ubuntu (or a faster flavour like Xubuntu or Lubuntu) and wipe Ubuntu from her machine. ;)

mastablasta
December 10th, 2012, 01:10 PM
actually i found KDE (Kubuntu) with classic menu setup to be the closest to WInXP (in it's default setup).

A good argument towards the move would be that XP support expires next year. so no more security updates. which would make the system vulnerable.

on th eother hand if thew computer has enough RAM (let's say 2GB) you can install linux inside virtual box: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/virtualbox

it might not be as fast as real install but it will give you some place to work and learn while leaving the XP setup alone.

CharlesA
December 10th, 2012, 04:16 PM
I would only advise running a VM on a machine with at least a dual core CPU and 2-4GB of RAM. Trying to virtualize on a single core is asking for trouble (don't ask how I know this..)

mips
December 10th, 2012, 04:26 PM
...(don't ask how I know this..)

Probably from experience ;)

Done it before but it ain't pretty.

sdowney717
December 10th, 2012, 04:58 PM
install cinnamon desktop
looks very nice sort of xp win7 type look. I plan If my father in law upgrades his Hardy old desktop with new system to do that. He would be totally lost with unity or gnome3.

Keep it simple. people mostly just want to get on the web browser.
http://askubuntu.com/questions/94201/how-do-i-install-the-cinnamon-desktop

AstroLlama
December 10th, 2012, 05:09 PM
Just keep the dual boot, you could even make the grub menu "silent" and set the XP to boot by default, so that when you restart you personally know to press ESC at the right time, choose ubuntu on grub and boot up.

This way she won't worry at all.

Jakin
December 10th, 2012, 05:41 PM
I remember back when on Ubuntu 7.10, i hid grub on a floppy. If the floppy was not inserted on power-on, it would auto load Windows. You had to have the Floppy inserted before power-on to have access to what you wanted to boot.

Just another example of hiding Grub :)

stalkingwolf
December 10th, 2012, 06:55 PM
zorin 5.2 has a winxp desktop look in its lookchanger.

speedwell68
December 11th, 2012, 12:16 AM
I have permanently converted 3 family members to Linux. My Aunt & Uncle, their Windows Vista laptop went screwy so I lent them my spare one that had Mint on it. My intention was to reinstall Vista. After a day or so they phoned me and asked if they could have Mint on their laptop, they preferred it as it was faster and easier to use. Their choice.

The second was my Father in Law. He wanted a new PC, I showed him W7 and Lubuntu, explained the difference and he chose Lubuntu, it was the virus thing that swayed him. He had never really used a PC before, so knew no different.

It has to be the users choice.

Linuxratty
December 11th, 2012, 12:43 AM
If it is her computer it is her choice, end of story.

Yes, I agree 100%. It's her computer, notyour computer.

Let's put the shoe on other foot,how would you feel if someone tried to force you to use W8, even to the point of putting it on your machine and locking it down so you could not remove it?

Same difference.
Leave her be.

DuckHook
December 11th, 2012, 02:27 AM
These replies are taking on a tone of stridency that is troubling and unnecessary...

The responders are assuming all sorts of stuff and starting to give the OP a hard time that is, frankly, undeserved. We don't know the OP's personal situation. If I might be allowed some guesses:

1. He is a young person, possibly a student. Buying his own computer may not even be a matter of financing so much as a matter of permission.
2. There is only one computer in the house. This is true in many households. This may be for any number of reasons: financial contraints, surfing content control, etc. My relatives could well afford a computer for each of their kids, but choose to have only one shared by all and located in a highly visible public space in order to control content.

The OP has already given a very valid reason that he may wish to have Linux installed.


I'm also beginning to learn how to program using c++So, even though the OP has phrased this as a disagreement over OSes, it is not really so much an issue about forcing someone to do something against their will, as it is an issue of family dynamics and how to best accommodate each other. Happens in all families. Dad may own the car, but kids change his seat configuration to drive safely and comfortably. Mom may own the TV but kids watch their own programs. Without accommodation, families would be dysfunctional. For one solution, see my prior post. No need to turn this molehill into a mountain, guys. Nor making this presumably young person feel bad merely for his unbridled enthusiasm. Everybody can be happy here. He just has to learn how to lay out his case completely and effectively and Mom will see the reason in it.

Bucky Ball
December 11th, 2012, 04:02 AM
... when you restart you personally know to press ESC at the right time ...

I think it's shift. Used to be escape.

mastablasta
December 11th, 2012, 08:37 AM
I would only advise running a VM on a machine with at least a dual core CPU and 2-4GB of RAM. Trying to virtualize on a single core is asking for trouble (don't ask how I know this..)


well Xubuntu runs fine on single core AMD 3800+ (i thnk it's this one) with 512MB dedicated to it (out of 2GB). i toned down the theme a bit. lubuntu should run even faster. i am also running LAMP server in this xubuntu. sure it's not the snappeist thing arorund when i start it but it does it's job. lags occasionally. again i gues sif i took a lighter DE or a WM it would run much faster. i could also give more ram to vbox maschine. but ... 512 MB is good enough.

C.S.Cameron
December 11th, 2012, 01:20 PM
I got fed up continuously trying to remove malware from my wife,s computer.
I installed Ubuntu and told her that it was the new "Virus Free Windows Update".
She has never complained.
That was close to six years ago.

DuckHook
December 11th, 2012, 06:06 PM
I got fed up continuously trying to remove malware from my wife,s computer.
I installed Ubuntu and told her that it was the new "Virus Free Windows Update".
She has never complained.
That was close to six years ago.

:biggrin: You are one brave man. I wouldn't dream of duping she-who-must-be-obeyed.

mythic97
December 11th, 2012, 06:41 PM
Let her use XP you don't want to support her using unity that IS HELL I tell you

haqking
December 11th, 2012, 06:43 PM
Let her use XP you don't want to support her using unity that IS HELL I tell you

Who mentioned Unity.

There is no and has never been any requirement to use Unity.

I think this has been well covered by now

CharlesA
December 11th, 2012, 08:35 PM
Who mentioned Unity.

There is no and has never been any requirement to use Unity.

I think this has been well covered by now
What he said. ^

forrestcupp
December 11th, 2012, 11:37 PM
Take a screen shot of her XP user's screen and use it for your wallpaper in Ubuntu. Then watch her freak out when nothing in her XP is working. :lol:

(Just joking, of course)



2. He has a real and legitimate reason to run Linux, since Linux is what he needs as his learning base.You quoted the fact that he is trying to learn C++. How is that a legitimate and real reason to need to run Linux? Anyone can install Visual C++ Express, Eclipse, or a hundred other quality IDEs for free in XP. The only real reason that he mentioned for needing Linux is that it runs better and faster on his computer.

Primefalcon
December 11th, 2012, 11:53 PM
both my wife (duel boots and does use both) and brother in law use linux...\

and to be honest I didn't push the issue I asked them if they be interested in trying it and told them if they didn't like it I could just remove it...

both took an instant liking to it.... brother in law switched over completely... and wife duel boots due to using Microsoft Office (shes a writer)

why push it, ask them if they're interested in trying it.... let them know that they can still use XP and that you can easily make it a pure windows machine again easily enough if they decide they don't like it.

Nothing wrong with giving options but their computers, their choice..... remember that!

DuckHook
December 12th, 2012, 12:02 AM
You quoted the fact that he is trying to learn C++. How is that a legitimate and real reason to need to run Linux? Anyone can install Visual C++ Express, Eclipse, or a hundred other quality IDEs for free in XP. The only real reason that he mentioned for needing Linux is that it runs better and faster on his computer.

...but isn't that now the OP's choice? I suppose that he has no choices at all if we take the hardline position that Mom's machine means he has absolutely no say, but I was just trying to point out that the issue was larger than a simple matter of choosing OSes.

Anyway, I agree with recent posters who have commented that this thread has been exhausted. All advice is now on record. OP can take his own counsel.

Paddy Landau
December 12th, 2012, 12:16 AM
you don't want to support her using unity that IS HELL I tell you
:confused: What do you mean, "hell"? I converted five people to Unity. Four picked it up within two minutes without any help; the fifth, a sort-of techno-phobe, picked it up in three minutes with a bit of help. All of them were familiar with Windows XP or Vista.

1clue
December 12th, 2012, 02:22 AM
:confused: What do you mean, "hell"? I converted five people to Unity. Four picked it up within two minutes without any help; the fifth, a sort-of techno-phobe, picked it up in three minutes with a bit of help. All of them were familiar with Windows XP or Vista.

Maybe it makes sense to other people. For me, I can't stand it.

Making a computer act more like a smart phone is, to me, similar to making my car act more like a bicycle. I have and use both, but when I need a car, the bicycle is NOT an advantage.

mamamia88
December 12th, 2012, 02:32 AM
Maybe it makes sense to other people. For me, I can't stand it.

Making a computer act more like a smart phone is, to me, similar to making my car act more like a bicycle. I have and use both, but when I need a car, the bicycle is NOT an advantage.

everybody keeps saying that unity is for a smartphone but to me it works great with keyboard and mouse too. 1 click app launching in the dock and quick launching of apps by hitting windows key and typing what you want to launch.

Shibblet
December 12th, 2012, 02:50 AM
Honestly, people are resistant to change and like things the way they have used them, which is often the way they feel comfortable with. You can't really argue against that, and if she has used Ubuntu and dislikes it, then she dislikes it.

You could explain your reasons behind using it, but in the end, its her choice. Don't cause a rift in your family.

Agreed.

A lot of people are very resistant to change. Some people have a hard time changing their initial thought process.

My father has always been resistant to change. To this day he never touches a computer. He’s in his early 60’s, and just likes doing things “his way.”

My parents just recently got Dish Network for their TV service (please no arguments about which service is better, they could only get Dish because of their location.) That’s not really the point though. The point is that now that they have 300+ channels, there is this nifty little “Guide” feature built in to the Set-Top-Box for easy browsing through the channels.

DOESN’T MATTER

My father will only browse the stations by pressing the up button over 400 times. One channel at a time… click… click… click… it’s infuriating. However, even after my mother and I have shown him the guide button, he still refuses. He likes it the way he uses it, and that’s what matters.

So, even though people make claims out of sheer ignorance, it’s irrelevant to your cause. You might have all of the right information, all of the necessary qualifications, it might be better, faster, more efficient, or even easier to use… but it’s not what they want, therefore your argument is invalid.
It’s lame, but that’s how it works.

Ever try to convince a girl/boyfriend to watch a YouTube video you thought was funny… if you have to convince them, they aren’t going to like it, REGARDLESS.

forrestcupp
December 12th, 2012, 02:51 AM
...but isn't that now the OP's choice? I suppose that he has no choices at all if we take the hardline position that Mom's machine means he has absolutely no say, but I was just trying to point out that the issue was larger than a simple matter of choosing OSes.
I wasn't trying to say that he shouldn't have a dual boot of Linux. My point was that if he is arguing with his mom to prove why he needs Linux, learning C++ isn't a good argument, because in my opinion, it's probably easier to do that in Windows. On the other hand, the fact that it runs better and faster on an old machine is a good argument.

lykwydchykyn
December 12th, 2012, 07:41 AM
I'm going to lay aside any cynical assumptions about the OP or his mom, and assume that this is just a case where mom is uncomfortable making a change to the unknown, and the OP is simply wanting to improve the family's computing experience.

In this case, here's what I recommend:

- First, you need to study your mom's actual computer usage. Does she really *only* use a web browser? Does she *only* go to sites that work well on Linux? There are no games, office products, email clients, or other software being used here?

- Next, you need to assess if Ubuntu can really meet these needs completely.

- If it does, then you need to engineer an experience on Linux that will be comfortable for her. Unity is an alien planet for a Windows XP user. LXDE has been suggested, and I second that. It isn't about slavishly recreating the WinXP desktop theme; it's about a desktop that works with familiar metaphors and components.

- Test this experience, and critically compare it to the Windows XP experience. Are there extra steps involved? Are there unfamiliar concepts? Are workarounds or technical knowledge required for any part of it? Everything about this desktop experience should work *at least* as well as it did on Windows.

- Now, the rubber meets the road: ask your mom to test it, and observe her using it. What things trip her up? What things are confusing? Did anything break? Did you find yourself having to intervene at any point to fix or explain something? If so, these things need to be fixed if you're going to expect her to switch.

- Finally, you need to find a compelling reason for the switch to win buy-in from her. Speed? Security? Maybe a program in the software center that you didn't have on Windows?

Take off the "linux guy" hat and look at things objectively; what's more important, Linux, or your mom? If Linux can deliver a better experience (and I believe it very often, though not always, can), then you're serving your mother by helping her switch. If it can't, and you are trying to force it anyway, then you aren't serving anyone.

Jakin
December 12th, 2012, 10:01 AM
If you have used a computer at all within the last 15years or so; It shouldn't be all that hard to pick up any of the Ubuntu versions, really.
They all have a start/home somewhere (refur to the win logo on start- if you are migrating from windows) and so this must be where your apps are.
They all have a windowing system, and they all have a taskbar they all have a systray.
Mouse and Keyboard functions are the nearly identical (if not spot on) to any other OS out there.
App-stores are very convenient.

The only thing left, is recognizing icons, and what they launch.

There is really no reason anyone shouldn't pick up on these very quickly.

Later on, appearance of the DE defines if we want Cinnamon/xfce/kde/unity/e17/ect.

1clue
December 12th, 2012, 06:56 PM
everybody keeps saying that unity is for a smartphone but to me it works great with keyboard and mouse too. 1 click app launching in the dock and quick launching of apps by hitting windows key and typing what you want to launch.

I've been saying for over a decade that one size does not fit all. I've never really tried to convince somebody to use Linux for its superiority or for some other operating system's inferiority. I've been involved in many discussions about window managers, desktop environments and distros, but if somebody is a dyed in the wool Windows or Mac user, then they probably won't change no matter what.

My desktop consists mostly of a bunch of terminal windows, many of which have tabs. I also use firefox and other apps, but I'm mostly a command-line guy, it's what Linux was when I learned it (actually that would be no X, just virtual terminals) and it's still how most of my work gets done. I've been trying modern window managers/desktops for over a decade now, and I'm about ready to give FVWM a try again.

I love a lot of features of modern WMs, DE's and some of the special effects. I love a lot of new apps. STS, TextMate (on Mac) and the list goes on.

My assessment of Unity isn't resistance to change. Every time something new comes down the pipe I give it a whirl. If it is better or shows more promise than what I've been using, I use it for awhile. I'm a professional Java/groovy developer, but while I use STS and grails and TextMate and occasionally other commercial or free products, I still find myself going back to vim for about 20% of my work, because for the task at hand it's faster FOR ME.

I don't like Unity because it's not an intuitive interface for me. I do NOT admire trying to unify smart phones and desktop/laptop PCs.

Note that I'm not trying to convince anyone else to not use Unity. As I have said for years, it takes all kinds to make the world go around.

Peace.

Shibblet
December 12th, 2012, 08:40 PM
I've wanted to put Ubuntu on my parents computer for one simple fact. It would keep me from having to fix all of the BS stuff they "click on" while online.

"Your Virus Scanner is out of date... click here!"
"Someone just sent you a photo... click here!"
"Your Nigerian Uncle wants to give you $1,000,000... Click Here!"

At least with Ubuntu, you know these things won't harm yours system. With Windows...

Zlatan
December 13th, 2012, 11:20 AM
No one needs to convince anyone. Mom's gotta use what she wants on her notebook and guy gotta make some $500 cash and get his own lappy;) Everyone's happy then.

Elfy
December 13th, 2012, 11:29 AM
OP has been answered.

Thread closed.