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newbie2
November 30th, 2012, 11:33 AM
But in a move that’s likely to placate many Linux fans, Dell is currently selling Ubuntu versions of its Vostro 2520 laptop for $299, while the same laptop with an identical hardware configuration goes for $369 if Windows 7 is the preinstalled OS. Rick Spencer, who works for Canonical, drew attention to the price difference on his personal blog after stumbling upon it during Cyber Monday shopping.

Something tells me, though, that the pricing differential does not reflect any kind of deliberate effort on the part of Dell to encourage customers to consider Ubuntu. First of all, no advertising highlights the Ubuntu cost advantage. Instead, users are left to discover it themselves, as Spencer did–and I’d bet that most visitors to Dell’s website who are not Canonical employees are unlikely to experiment with non-Windows OS options to reveal the cost difference.
http://www.thevarguy.com/2012/11/28/dell-laptop-is-70-cheaper-with-ubuntu-linux/

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/11/dell-releases-powerful-well-supported-linux-ultrabook/?comments=1

http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=12379464&postcount=26

:rolleyes:

Paqman
November 30th, 2012, 12:08 PM
Meh, they've been doing a rubbish job of this for years. Don't count on Dell to push any kind of Linux revolution, their support has always been extremely lacklustre and uncoordinated.

3rdalbum
November 30th, 2012, 12:24 PM
Well, they got some bad press a few years back when someone bought an Ubuntu machine "because it was cheaper" and then their ISP told them that they didn't support Ubuntu, and the person dropped out of their university course because of it.

mörgæs
November 30th, 2012, 12:26 PM
Some of the main hardware companies do not offer Ubuntu at all. Dell might not be superb, but still they deserve some credit just for offering a choice.

vasa1
November 30th, 2012, 12:45 PM
Well, they got some bad press a few years back when someone bought an Ubuntu machine "because it was cheaper" and then their ISP told them that they didn't support Ubuntu, and the person dropped out of their university course because of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qj8p-PEwbI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQekFkgpFJs

mastablasta
November 30th, 2012, 01:25 PM
Some of the main hardware companies do not offer Ubuntu at all. Dell might not be superb, but still they deserve some credit just for offering a choice.

they are usually hiding the choice though. or being quiet about it.

let's see what they do with the new Developer laptop XPS13 with ubuntu preinstalled.

Erik1984
November 30th, 2012, 01:39 PM
Some of the main hardware companies do not offer Ubuntu at all. Dell might not be superb, but still they deserve some credit just for offering a choice.

Yes, but at the same time they hide the existence of Ubuntu as option and clearly recommend Windows. Let's say they are not making it attractive for joe user to pick Ubuntu, but I do agree that it's laudable that they have the option on some models.

Paqman
November 30th, 2012, 01:55 PM
Some of the main hardware companies do not offer Ubuntu at all. Dell might not be superb, but still they deserve some credit just for offering a choice.

Tbh, if there's no effort to actually market or support it, they might as well just do nothing. A half-hearted effort probably does more harm, as it just reinforces the opinion that there's no demand for Linux systems. In reality there might well be demand if people were given the option, but no one has really tried.

Preinstalled Linux is of no real advantage to geeks, who are perfectly capable of installing Linux, and no use to mainstream consumers if they aren't made aware of it.

shaktiman1234
November 30th, 2012, 01:58 PM
I have also tried ubuntu on Dell and their hardware compatibility has been very poor.

Erik1984
November 30th, 2012, 01:59 PM
Tbh, if there's no effort to actually market or support it, they might as well just do nothing. A half-hearted effort probably does more harm, as it just reinforces the opinion that there's no demand for Linux systems. In reality there might well be demand if people were given the option, but no one has really tried.

Preinstalled Linux is of no real advantage to geeks, who are perfectly capable of installing Linux, and no use to mainstream consumers if they aren't made aware of it.

Plus mainstream customers need a traditional support infrastructure where they can call the help desk for OS related question. I don't know if that's the case when you order a Dell product with Ubuntu?

newbie2
November 30th, 2012, 03:32 PM
Update 30-11-12: Dell has now revised the price of the Developer Edition of the XPS 13 down to $1449 (£903), which makes it $50 cheaper than a comparable laptop with WIndows 8.
http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Dell-launches-Ubuntu-powered-Sputnik-for-developers-Update-1759350.html


It was not our intention to price the XPS 13 developer edition higher.
http://en.community.dell.com/dell-blogs/direct2dell/b/direct2dell/archive/2012/11/30/sputnik-pricing-update.aspx

SeijiSensei
November 30th, 2012, 03:43 PM
Plus mainstream customers need a traditional support infrastructure where they can call the help desk for OS related question. I don't know if that's the case when you order a Dell product with Ubuntu?

On the professional side of the house, Dell's support for Linux is pretty good. They ship lots of servers with preinstalled RedHat and Novell Linux, and their tech staff in knowledgeable.

Primefalcon
November 30th, 2012, 07:57 PM
I find this page: http://content.dell.com/us/en/business/d/help-me-choose/hmc-commercial-os-ubuntu.aspx?ref=CFG&ref=CFG to be interesting

screaminj3sus
December 1st, 2012, 07:39 AM
reminds me of id software barely supporting linux by having one guy port the games and putting the binaries hidden on some ftp server, and then john carmack crying that linux sales weren't good enough.

KiwiNZ
December 1st, 2012, 08:47 AM
Ready some of the post in this thread shows why Linux on Desktop/Laptop is at +/-1% and likely to stay there.

Paqman
December 1st, 2012, 09:23 AM
Ready some of the post in this thread shows why Linux on Desktop/Laptop is at +/-1% and likely to stay there.

You blame the users? The only people who actually do use desktop Linux? Really?

KiwiNZ
December 1st, 2012, 09:47 AM
You blame the users? The only people who actually do use desktop Linux? Really?

People post on these forums that we need OEMs to start pre-loaded Linux on machines and when one does they are told "why bother"

Erik1984
December 1st, 2012, 10:36 AM
People post on these forums that we need OEMs to start pre-loaded Linux on machines and when one does they are told "why bother"
No, they are told that just pre-loading Linux alone is not enough to make it an attractive option for the average consumer.

newbie2
December 1st, 2012, 11:09 AM
No, they are told that just pre-loading Linux alone is not enough to make it an attractive option for the average consumer.

Samsung's A15 Chromebook Loaded With Ubuntu Is Crazy Fast (http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=samsung_chrome_a15&num=1) ;)

Paqman
December 1st, 2012, 01:07 PM
No, they are told that just pre-loading Linux alone is not enough to make it an attractive option for the average consumer.

Precisely. Dell's effort has consistently fallen well short of what the community wants from an OEM, with predictable results.

It's not rocket science that a product that isn't marketed or supported properly isn't going to do well.

KiwiNZ
December 1st, 2012, 06:29 PM
Precisely. Dell's effort has consistently fallen well short of what the community wants from an OEM, with predictable results.

It's not rocket science that a product that isn't marketed or supported properly isn't going to do well.

Thank you for proving my point.

fatality_uk
December 1st, 2012, 06:39 PM
Damned if they do, damned if they dont!

Primefalcon
December 1st, 2012, 07:28 PM
TBH if I need a new machine I'll either A. Build it myself or buy it from system76 or Dell... I do like Dell machines and personally I'd like to support whatever efforts are being made..

and if more people do buy computers with Ubuntu installed... companies like dell would be more inclined to offer more.... since lets face... they will sell whatever sells best...

And without companies selling machins pre-loaded Ubuntu and other Linux systems will never take a major market share since 99% of people will never install an OS themselves...

For example my brother in law prefers Linux now and said he'd never use windows.... but in no way would he ever be comfortable installing an OS himself regardless of how easy it is...

So convincing companies to sell pre-loaded is the only way I see to get to the mass market, and companies wont do it.... unless they see their toe dips actually selling.... and for that to happen.... we do need to buy Linux machines and not Windows ones... otherwise as far as the companies are concerned.... we're windows users....

And companies like adobe will never support Linux unless/until they have a mass market appeal

screaminj3sus
December 1st, 2012, 10:15 PM
Thank you for proving my point.

He didn't prove your point. Dell is trying to market this laptop towards "developers", yet its got a measly 720p screen resolution, which makes the hardware itself straight up unappealing to its target audience. If they up the screen resolution to something developers want, and support the product properly I think it would sell pretty well.

Primefalcon
December 1st, 2012, 11:23 PM
He didn't prove your point. Dell is trying to market this laptop towards "developers", yet its got a measly 720p screen resolution, which makes the hardware itself straight up unappealing to its target audience. If they up the screen resolution to something developers want, and support the product properly I think it would sell pretty well.
thats a pretty good point actually.... I'll stick with system76 if I buy a premade system

KiwiNZ
December 1st, 2012, 11:29 PM
He didn't prove your point. Dell is trying to market this laptop towards "developers", yet its got a measly 720p screen resolution, which makes the hardware itself straight up unappealing to its target audience. If they up the screen resolution to something developers want, and support the product properly I think it would sell pretty well.

So you prefer Dell or any of the OEMs not to make a start. So we should write to them and ask them to stop.

As someone said earlier "dammed if they do, dammed if they don't, unbelievable.

ugm6hr
December 1st, 2012, 11:41 PM
I think the title of the entire thread is misleading...

Dell is not trying to promote Ubuntu. They are trying to sell computers and other hardware.

Consider:
The fact that they identify specific hardware as compatible with Ubuntu / Linux.
The fact that they allow Linux users to avoid paying for Windows.

These are both a step in the right direction.

The people who should be trying to promote sales of Dell Ubuntus are:
Canonical
Us (the community) - only if you believe in doing so

Remember, Dell don't care if you buy an Ubuntu computer or a Windows one - their profit is likely to be similar either way. By offering Ubuntu pre-installed, they merely increase their market into the (small) Linux userbase.

I would wholeheartedly support them: the last 3 laptops I bought for my family had Linux pre-installed. One was from Dell.

As some have already said, by complaining that they aren't jumping up and down to become part of the community merely serves to deter others following suit. If they can't count on existing users (who won't require marketing) buying from them, why would anyone else?

screaminj3sus
December 1st, 2012, 11:44 PM
So you prefer Dell or any of the OEMs not to make a start. So we should write to them and ask them to stop.

As someone said earlier "dammed if they do, dammed if they don't, unbelievable.

No one's telling them to stop, they are telling them what can be done to make the product more appealing to the audience that would be interested in buying it.

KiwiNZ
December 1st, 2012, 11:48 PM
A quick search shows these available

XPS 13

Processor 3rd Generation Intel® Core™ i7-3517U (4M Cache, up to 3.0 GHz)
Operating System UBUNTU Linux 12.04
Display 13.3" HD 720p
Memory2 8GB3 DDR3 SDRAM at 1600MHz
Hard Drive 256GB Solid State Drive
Video Card Intel HD 4000
Warranty 1 Year ProSupport with 1 Year NBD Limited Onsite Service After Remote Diagnosis
System Weight 2.99 lbs

Vostro 2520

Processor Intel® Celeron® Dual Core B820 processor (1.70GHz)
Operating System UBUNTU Linux
Display London Slate Gray
Memory2 2GB3 Single Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1600MHz
Hard Drive 320GB 5400 RPM SATA Hard Drive
Optical Drive 8X CD / DVD Burner (Dual Layer DVD+/-R Drive)
Video Card Intel® HD Graphics/HD Graphics 3000
Warranty 1 Year Basic Hardware Service with 1 Year NBD Onsite Service after Remote Diagnosis
System Weight 5.2 lbs

Vostro 2420

Processor Intel® Celeron® Dual Core B820 processor (1.70GHz)
Operating System UBUNTU Linux
Display 14.0" High Definition (720p) LED with Anti-Glare™
Memory2 2GB3 Single Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1600MHz
Hard Drive 320GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive
Optical Drive 8X CD / DVD Burner (Dual Layer DVD+/-R Drive)
Video Card Intel® HD Graphics/HD Graphics 3000
Warranty 1 Year Basic Hardware Service with 1 Year NBD Onsite Service after Remote Diagnosis
System Weight 4.83 lbs

KiwiNZ
December 1st, 2012, 11:50 PM
No one's telling them to stop, they are telling them what can be done to make the product more appealing to the audience that would be interested in buying it.


It's a high risk venture they are hardly going to invest a lot of money just to test the waters.

Favux
December 2nd, 2012, 12:37 AM
This thread is so pointless I am wondering if it is some sort of performance art send up of "Waiting for Godot". Is some absurdist playwright going to take credit?

alexfish
December 2nd, 2012, 05:02 AM
This thread is so pointless I am wondering if it is some sort of performance art send up of "Waiting for Godot". Is some absurdist playwright going to take credit?
time to put pointless to bed,

private enterprise have their goals , else it fails.

Paqman
December 2nd, 2012, 02:43 PM
So you prefer Dell or any of the OEMs not to make a start. So we should write to them and ask them to stop.

As someone said earlier "dammed if they do, dammed if they don't, unbelievable.

Don't be silly, no one is telling them to stop. We're telling them to do it more, and better.

Are you happy with how Dell have handled their Linux lineup over the last few years? I'm not, their policy is that individual regional managers can offer Linux if they want, but there's no cohesive vision, no budget and no additional support available for them if they do.

That's planning to fail in my book. As an ex-military man and a business man you'd have to agree that any kind of venture that lacks a clear plan, leadership and resources is doomed.

stalkingwolf
December 2nd, 2012, 05:20 PM
looks like they might already have stopped. this from a chat just minutes ago with dell.


we no longer have vostro in our lines, this is usually from our Small & Medium Business chat lines.
09:12:07 AM Agent
XPS13 we do have but not with Ubuntu preinstalled
09:12:24 AM Customer
i see so those models will only be used for "business"? and all others only for "home" use
09:12:44 AM Agent
would you like me to provide you with our Small & Medium business chat servcie?
09:13:04 AM Agent
They do handle vostro systems but i cant assure you that we have ubuntu preinstalled

screaminj3sus
December 2nd, 2012, 05:23 PM
looks like they might already have stopped. this from a chat just minutes ago with dell.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if a lot of their support agents just don't know about the sputnik project, the project is technically still in "beta".

llanitedave
December 2nd, 2012, 05:49 PM
I don't really understand the concept of offering a product or service, even experimentally, and then failing to market it.

In today's manufacturing/sales world, manufacturing and marketing are inextricably linked. It's nearly impossible to sell something you haven't marketed, particularly if you're making an effort at the same time marketing something else.

I get the feeling that some factions within Dell are deliberately undermining other factions.

Erik1984
December 2nd, 2012, 06:03 PM
Thank you for proving my point.

So the point is: if a company preloads devices with Linux we are not allowed to comment on the way they advertise and support those devices.

Sef
December 2nd, 2012, 06:13 PM
This thread as has already been pointed out is going nowhere fast (or slow), so locked.