Gone back to 10.04!

[Duncan J Murray]

My dearly loved Thinkpad T40 finally bit the dust recently, not because anything went wrong with it, but because a cheap laptop backpack broke it's straps while it was on my back, causing the laptop to hit the ground quite hard, and shearing off the left screen hinge (still works!).

I had been having trouble with the upgrade from 10.04 -> 12.04, which I was using in fallback mode (it suited my way of working with workspaces better than unity, and was a smidgen faster), but found it very slow. It felt like working in treacle. So I thought I'd switch over to Mate - using Linux Mint Mate 13. This was a huge improvement, but it was still a bit slower than 10.04, and there was the odd bug or two (the desktop background frequently completely blacked out) - but nothing show stopping.

Anyway, I have a nice shiny old Thinkpad T60p 14", which I have just finished installing 10.04 on. I figured that there wasn't anything that 12.04 or Mint Maya could do that 10.04 couldn't. I had also considered other possibilities - mainly crunchbang and xubuntu - but the former I thought might have been a bit too fiddly (editing config files for the application menu put me off) and the latter I just couldn't grow to love (really missed the 'places' menu). So I went with 10.04.4. I had to do a lot of repository stuff, but firefox is at least reasonably up to date, and a lot of the other stuff I don't mind being a bit old. I've got PPAs for libreoffice, kupfer and rhythmbox.

I have to say - it is incredible! Very fast, very useable, and I'm very happy. I think next year I will simply continue to use it without updates, and hopefully not run into too many problems. If anyone else is struggling to find something that fills the void for gnome 2, then I would wholeheartedly recommend sticking with 10.04 a bit longer.

PS I know this laptop is substantially faster than my previous laptop (Banias 1.3Ghz versus duocore 2Ghz), and probably 12.04 fallback/unity/gnome3/cinnamon/mate would all run very quick on it, but the thought of those wasted CPU cycles for no gain upsets me!

[aspergerian]

Duncan,

Your thoughts parallel mine. I tried Unity, then its gnome, then Mint, finally have settled on Xubuntu but remain tempted to revert to 10.04, which remains my favorite.

[mamamia88]

Why use something that won't receive updates soon? Why not try mint with mate or xubuntu, or debian? I don't get why you would want to use a 2 year old version of ubuntu when there are better options that are supported

[drawkcab]

Is anyone using 12.04 with MATE?

[Duncan J Murray]

I think there are a lot of people with similar wants as myself at the moment, and I agree that linux mint mate and xubuntu are the equivalent modern distros which would be the sensible option. However, 10.04 is, nonetheless, really excellent - fast, stable, and with a bit of compiz, also looks quite nice.

linux mint mate is also excellent, but there was the odd bug, and it is definetely more resource hungry and slower than 10.04. I'm not sure whether this is to do with mate, or other extra processes running.

xfce/xubuntu I also quite like, but I'm actually a really big fan of the three menus in Gnome 2 - there isn't any way to replicate this behaviour in xfce that I've found (the main problem being the 'places' bit of it).

debian? I suppose why not? Or maybe even LMDE. In the past I've struggled to get debian to work (mainly drivers trouble), and I'm probably not proficient enough to get it working with everything I like to do. LMDE is excellent, but they've recently moved up to Gnome3 as default (I think with Cinnamon), and there currently isn't a MATE version - you have install it after, but certainly this might be the way to go in the future for something fast/reliable etc...

Does it matter that 10.04 will stop being updated next year? I'm still using 10.10 on a USB stick at work, and that seems fine...

D

[Duncan J Murray]

PS I haven't tried 12.04 with MATE, but I figure that you might as well go for linux mint mate rather than faff around with installing mate on 12.04. I also wonder if linux mint mate will be a bit leaner, as it won't have all of the G3/unity baggage with it (maybe that was what was slowing down 12.04 fallback?).

[snowpine]

Why use something that won't receive updates soon? Why not try mint with mate or xubuntu, or debian? I don't get why you would want to use a 2 year old version of ubuntu when there are better options that are supported

Ubuntu 10.04 is comparable in age-of-packages to Debian, Red Hat, and CentOS, which are among the most stable, highly-regarded, and widely-used of distributions. The core packages of 10.04 (kernel and libraries) will be fully supported through April 2015 (although you'll have to do your own updates to the web browser and desktop apps) so I really don't see anything wrong with using or recommending 10.04 for conservative users.

[sudodus]

Now I have moved from 10.04 LTS to 12.04 LTS and from gnome to lxde (Lubuntu plus xubuntu-desktop) on an IBM Thinkpad 41. It is doing quite well (more responsive than vanilla Ubuntu 10.04).

See also http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2088658 (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2088658)

[dannyboy79]

I never upgraded, been happily using 10.04.4 on my MythTV/Media server as well as my main Workstation. It's mainly because my tv cards are analog (PVR-350 and PVR-500) and I have been told that MythTV above .23 has a bug with these old analog cards creating zero byte files so that's a no-go for me. I'll stick with 10.04.4/MythTV .23.1+fixes as long as I can. TWC is still transmitting the analog signal over the internet coax line so I get free analog cable stations, from 2 to 99.

I do run 12.04 Gnome Classic 2D on my Sony Vaio laptop though.

[kurt18947]

IME the 12.04 series, be it Lubuntu or Xubuntu is quite stable and fast. Of course I've selected hardware with an eye toward linux compatibility so that may enter into the equation.

[sudodus]

PS I haven't tried 12.04 with MATE, but I figure that you might as well go for linux mint mate rather than faff around with installing mate on 12.04. I also wonder if linux mint mate will be a bit leaner, as it won't have all of the G3/unity baggage with it (maybe that was what was slowing down 12.04 fallback?).
I recommend and install Linux Mint to newbie friends because it is easy to run and has good multimedia support out of the box. I have found that Mate is faster than Cinnamon, which might be important on older computers. Cinnamon feels more modern but has fewer tools in the box, so it is a good idea to install both to have a choice of both desktop environments as well as tools to tweak the system.

But, as I described earlier, I run Ubuntu 12.04 flavours myself.

[haqking]

I have been away from *buntu for a while as i also run Slackware. However the initial 12.04 release did niggle me.

I have recently come back to 12.04 though in the form of Mint and it is running/installed perfectly. (few Nvidia niggles but that is a given).

Running epicly fast with KDE 4.9 and no issues at all post install (Nvidia drama) on recent powerful hardware (gtx 580, 16gb ram and SSD's)

It is all about not what works but what you can make work, there are too many options for people to complain about things not working in my opinion (and I know no one here is complaining, I am just making a general statement).

If you want to go back to 10.04 then that is fine as long as you dont like updates.

Peace

[javagreen]

What are you guys thoughts on 11.04?

Just asking.

As good as 10.04? Better? Machine is an AMD Phenom x4 2.2 Ghz desktop with 4 Gigsa RAM.

[sudodus]

What are you guys thoughts on 11.04?

Just asking.

As good as 10.04? Better? Machine is an AMD Phenom x4 2.2 Ghz desktop with 4 Gigsa RAM.

11.04 has passed end of life, and receives no [security] updates. I used Ubuntu Studio 11.04 on a Xeon workstation and was happy with it until end of life, when I upgraded it.

[Duncan J Murray]

I don't deny having this nagging feeling that as I come to the end of support of 10.04 while it is still running on my laptop something dramatic will happen (i.e. the laptop will explode) - but when I think about it rationally, all that will happen is that a very stable piece of software will stop receiving updates. That shouldn't be a problem, even with regards to security - but I guess you have to be vigilant.

Not that keen on moving from G2 to xfce/lxde, but I figure I may do that in the future. I find G2 to have a nice balance between efficiency, but also having some of those luxury features I occasionally use. It also works so well with my workflow, as I'm quite a keen workspace user. It's easy to drag files across workspaces and switch quickly between them (this is more of a jibe towards G3 and unity though).

KDE I haven't really given a fair go (apart from trying some live distros). I find the buttons are all a bit small, and last time I used it (PCLinuxOS) it seemed to ape windows so much that it put me off somewhat. However, their workspaces looks like an excellent idea. Maybe if I could configure it more like G2 I'd give it another go in the future.

Don't see any benefit to using 11.04 - it was the first of the unity series, and in my eyes, a bit unfinished and slow. 11.10 and 12.04 are big improvements IMHO.

[kevinmchapman]

It also works so well with my workflow, as I'm quite a keen workspace user. It's easy to drag files across workspaces and switch quickly between them (this is more of a jibe towards G3 and unity though).

What's the issue with Gnome Shell workspace dragging/switching? GS allows dragging of windows between workspaces (even to one that doesn't exist yet...) and from the overview to another workspace. I never used Gnome2 much - did it allow dragging from desktop to another workspace?

For quick switching, I also like the Workspace Navigator extension - hit the Windows key and the arrow keys allow switching. No Ctrl-Alt-<arrow> messing about. In the overview mode, the mouse works just like it used to in Gnome2, so, all round, nothing lost, and plenty gained as far as I can see.

[kurt18947]

What's the issue with Gnome Shell workspace dragging/switching? GS allows dragging of windows between workspaces (even to one that doesn't exist yet...) and from the overview to another workspace. I never used Gnome2 much - did it allow dragging from desktop to another workspace?

For quick switching, I also like the Workspace Navigator extension - hit the Windows key and the arrow keys allow switching. No Ctrl-Alt-<arrow> messing about. In the overview mode, the mouse works just like it used to in Gnome2, so, all round, nothing lost, and plenty gained as far as I can see.

Yup, Gnome 3 without the extensions is not very usable IMO. I recall a mention of the 'places' menu. There are a couple extensions to address that as well as workspaces. The biggest PITA for me in Gnome 3 is the lack of Gnome 2 ish printer and user administration. The defaults suck. As luck would have it however, both the older applets are available in the repos and both seem to function in Gnome 3. I think XFCE installs the older functional apps by default.

[kevinmchapman]

Yup, Gnome 3 without the extensions is not very usable IMO. I recall a mention of the 'places' menu. There are a couple extensions to address that as well as workspaces.

I added an extension to make it more convenient to use the arrow keys to switch workspaces... Hardly a major functionality change. Did Gnome2 have that built in? If so, I take my hat off to it.

Not sure about the places menu. Is that one of those extensions to make it more like the 1990s?

[Linuxratty]

I don't deny having this nagging feeling that as I come to the end of support of 10.04 while it is still running on my laptop something dramatic will happen (i.e. the laptop will explode) - but when I think about it rationally, all that will happen is that a very stable piece of software will stop receiving updates. That shouldn't be a problem,

It may not be..Still running 10;10 on the white box..
On the Revo I have lts with Gnome classic...Very nice.

[Duncan J Murray]

What's the issue with Gnome Shell workspace dragging/switching? GS allows dragging of windows between workspaces (even to one that doesn't exist yet...) and from the overview to another workspace. I never used Gnome2 much - did it allow dragging from desktop to another workspace?


The problem I had with GS was when trying to drag files around to different workspaces - On G2 I have the 1st workspace with the folder with the files I'm working on, then I have GIMP and various other programs on the other spaces. It's simply a matter of dragging the file to the workspace with GIMP on, hold it, then drop it on GIMP. In GS you need to take the file up to the top left, move to the desired workspace, wait, move to the workspace screen, wait again!, then you can drop it on GIMP. In GS I found it simply much easier to go to GIMP and just open from the file browser there.

[Duncan J Murray]

It may not be..Still running 10;10 on the white box..
On the Revo I have lts with Gnome classic...Very nice.

A Psion Revo?

[Gremlinzzz]

:popcorn: 9 out of 10 Gremlinzzz recommend Xubuntu.
Downloading a live system called Tails anyone tried it?

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=tails

[MadmanRB]

If you want something decent and stable give openSUSE 12.2 a shot

[haqking]

If you want something decent and stable give openSUSE 12.2 a shot


Well decent and stable is subjective as is all Linux to everyone.

The Linux experience will be based on Users personality more than anything followed by knowledge then hardware and of course murphys law.

personally i think there should be a distro called YMMV, it would solve a lot of complaints ;-)

[sudodus]

:popcorn: 9 out of 10 Gremlinzzz recommend Xubuntu.
Downloading a live system called Tails anyone tried it?

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=tails
Yes, I have tried it and it works well on my computers. Good if you need to hide from enemies, but I think that the slow web connection via Tor is too frustrating for most people.

[Gremlinzzz]

Yes, I have tried it and it works well on my computers. Good if you need to hide from enemies, but I think that the slow web connection via Tor is too frustrating for most people.

:popcorn:Thanks for the reply and info.

[oldrocker99]

Is anyone using 12.04 with MATE?

I've been using MATE with 12.04 for months now. Quick, familiar, and pretty bug-free. It's easily installable from a PPA if you don't use Mint, as is Cinnamon. When I'm not using MATE, I am usually using KDE 4.9 (in the backports repos), since it's the best for playing full-screen games (IF you check off the "disable effects for full-screen windows" in the Desktop Effects controller (on the third tab)), according to Phoronix and my own personal experience. In that Phoronix test, Unity gave the slowest frame rate, BTW.

[TeamRocket1233c]

You could try installing Ubuntu 12.04 LTS or 12.10 and installing MATE or Cinnamon on that and using either one of those DEs instead of Unity, and there's also Xubuntu 12.04 LTS or 12.10, Lubuntu 12.10, or Kubuntu 12.04 or 12.10 to choose from.

Could also give Arch or Slackware a shot if you got the time, skills, and patience, and Fedora 17 LXDE or KDE's a good candidate too, and you can install Cinnamon on it, and Fedora 18 will offer an official MATE spin, and an official Cinnamon spin, I think.

There's also straight-up Debian, Crunchbang, or LMDE to try as well.

[Duncan J Murray]

I've been using MATE with 12.04 for months now. Quick, familiar, and pretty bug-free. It's easily installable from a PPA if you don't use Mint, as is Cinnamon. When I'm not using MATE, I am usually using KDE 4.9 (in the backports repos), since it's the best for playing full-screen games (IF you check off the "disable effects for full-screen windows" in the Desktop Effects controller (on the third tab)), according to Phoronix and my own personal experience. In that Phoronix test, Unity gave the slowest frame rate, BTW.

That's interesting - what are steam going to do about this? Seems like a bad idea to pick the slowest DE for linux gaming.