Pivacy issue in v12.10

[shaunthesheep]

First thing to do after installing Ubuntu 12.10, is protect your privacy.

http://linuxtweaking.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/first-thing-to-do-after-installing.html

INTRO

By default Ubuntu 12.10 will record all your keystrokes / search terms when using the Unity Dash and send it to their servers and other third parties.

There can be no doubt that they anticipated many users will remain oblivious to this change / practice, such users will therefore have their privacy compromised.

Even if it is out of their own ignorance, ie because these users did not read the manual, where privacy is concerned there needs to be solid boundaries.

Canonical Ltd relying on a 'unless you opt out' style Legal Notice (see below) is just not good enough."

<snip> Canonical <snip> are you doing?

[teslasmoustache]

I've decided to write a letter to Canonical in dead-tree format to let them know how I feel about this.

Sharing information such as this with third parties (especially those such as Amazon) by default is an irresponsible violation of privacy and user trust. Canonical has designed their operating system to snitch on its users.

I understand their reasons for installing the shopping lens. They are a for-profit organization. They have employees who need to get paid and these are not good times, economically. They are also trying to explore the frontiers of computing with smartphones, tablets and televisions. But surely there is a way for them to do this without violating the trust and privacy of their users.

[*^kyfds(]

We do have to remember that canonical is a company, and they have to make money.

I'm not so keen on them sending every key stroke i make to their servers, although i would be fine with them sending only keywords.

I honestly don't care if they send this data out anyway - i love their operating system, and this is my way of giving something back to canonical.

[teslasmoustache]

What if those keywords happen to be "tor" or "freenet"?

I just read a story today about a woman having her Amazon account shut down, and having all of her Kindle books erased. The Amazon email-bot won't say why. They may have done it for no reason at all. They can certainly do the same thing because of a couple of search terms they don't like.

Paypal froze Wikileaks' accounts a while back, apparently because they didn't like what Wikileaks was doing. That was a very public incident. What if Amazon can make decisions about how to treat you, based on what files you search for in your *private* home folder?

When we agree to Canonical's privacy policy, we also agree to the privacy policies of the third parties with which they share user data. Those privacy policies are often haunting. Google will hand over user data to anyone who looks official and asks politely.

[Mikeb85]

Google will hand over user data to anyone who looks official and asks politely.

This is simply untrue. Google has at various times withheld information from various governments, and even relocated data centres to avoid handing user data over. They've also resisted handing data over to the US government at various times, though they also have to comply with the laws of the land...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/06/17/u-s-government-requests-for-google-users-private-data-spike-37-in-one-year/

Keep in mind no other major tech company releases information of this sort, so we have no idea how often Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, Yahoo, Amazon, etc..., give away your data.

Google is by far the most 'open' internet company, and is very protective of users data...

As for Ubuntu, if you read Mark Shuttleworth's blog, you'll know that information is first going to Canonical's servers, then to Amazon, and user data is not being transmitted to Amazon (until you actually log in to their website).

[teslasmoustache]

Google complied with 93% of user data requests in the second half of 2011.

https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/

That's a lot. I'm wondering about the other 7%. What was that for?

And by the way, they only started reporting this stuff 2 years ago.

[Mikeb85]

Google complied with 93% of user data requests in the second half of 2011.

https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/

That's a lot. I'm wondering about the other 7%. What was that for?

And by the way, they only started reporting this stuff 2 years ago.


93% is alot, but maybe it's because of the legitimacy of the requests?

Traditional businesses are also required to comply with police investigations, why would you expect the internet to be free of this sort of thing?

[Lightstar]

I don't see any other way online suggestions could have worked.

Personally. I chose not to display results from the web.

[thatguruguy]

As for Ubuntu, if you read Mark Shuttleworth's blog, you'll know that information is first going to Canonical's servers, then to Amazon, and user data is not being transmitted to Amazon (until you actually log in to their website).

This. Plus:


Searches in the Files lens aren't sent to anyone. If you have a super-secret file on your computer that you don't want anyone to know about, search for it in your Files lens.
Chances are, the searches being done daily by most people on the internet can already raise more security questions than typing 3 letters in the Dash.
Searches in the Applications lens have gone to the Ubuntu Software Center since 11.04. Searches in the Videos lens have gone to Amazon since (at least) 12.04. You could search Amazon's music collection in Banshee in 11.04. I'm not sure how this is a bigger privacy violation than those were.

[teslasmoustache]

I don't see any other way online suggestions could have worked.

Personally. I chose not to display results from the web.

Then perhaps online suggestions shouldn't work at all. o_0

[teslasmoustache]

93% is alot, but maybe it's because of the legitimacy of the requests?

Traditional businesses are also required to comply with police investigations, why would you expect the internet to be free of this sort of thing?

Maybe the requests are legitimate. Maybe they're not. Do you know where I can look that up? A few weeks ago my favorite operating system didn't have a built-in key-logger.

[sammiev]

The only way to be safe is not to use the Internet.

[cariboo]

This thread is so full of misinformation, that it isn't even funny. The only thing that is sent to Canoical are searches in the dash. All you have to do if you don't like this happening is turn off the Amazon search in System Settings -> Privacy.

Search in the dash, uses zeitgiest (which doesn't send keystrokes anywhere) to make searching for items that you've accessed since installing, much easier.

What I'd like to see, is some wireshark (http://www.wireshark.org/) logs showing the keystrokes being sent to anywhere, instead of just unsubstantiated claims that the blogger can't back up. It looks to me like this is another case of making wild claims without backing them up, just to get page reads.

[teslasmoustache]

This. Plus:


Searches in the Files lens aren't sent to anyone. If you have a super-secret file on your computer that you don't want anyone to know about, search for it in your Files lens.
Chances are, the searches being done daily by most people on the internet can already raise more security questions than typing 3 letters in the Dash.
Searches in the Applications lens have gone to the Ubuntu Software Center since 11.04. Searches in the Videos lens have gone to Amazon since (at least) 12.04. You could search Amazon's music collection in Banshee in 11.04. I'm not sure how this is a bigger privacy violation than those were.



Yeah. People are being spied upon all the time and it's getting worse every day. And when Canonical decides to record keystrokes from every lens or even word processing applications, and potentially provide them to third parties, how will you feel? Will you at least raise an eyebrow or will you just go on knowing that there are a million people reading what you type so they can shove ads in your face or sick the cops on you or throttle your bandwidth? I really hate being the slippery-slope guy. But seriously, has anyone else noticed the amazingly slippery slope we've been sliding down? Maybe I'm getting off topic here. Basically, I think it would be much more appropriate to have users opt-in for this service, rather than require them to opt-out if they don't want it. It's at least considerate.

[teslasmoustache]

blegh. That looks really hard to read. sorry.

[teslasmoustache]

Cariboo907:

file:///usr/share/unity/6/searchingthedashlegalnotice.html

IP addresses and search terms.

"It says "Canonical will only use your search terms and IP address in accordance with this legal notice and our privacy (http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/privacypolicy) policy (http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/privacypolicy)."

Check the privacy policy under where it says "Access".

"The information you provide to us will be held on computers and may be accessed by or given to our staff working inside and outside of the UK and to third parties, including contractors and companies within Canonical's group, for the purposes set out in this Privacy Policy, i.e. to provide you with products or services, or as otherwise agreed with you."

Unless there's something else I'm missing. Let me know.

[woodrobin]

Cariboo907:

Check the privacy policy under where it says "Access".

"The information you provide to us will be held on computers and may be accessed by or given to our staff working inside and outside of the UK and to third parties, including contractors and companies within Canonical's group, for the purposes set out in this Privacy Policy, i.e. to provide you with products or services, or as otherwise agreed with you."


I'd have to agree that this is a worrisome piece of legalese. Especially since I don't recall being presented with an "agreement" at any point. If there is a license or allowance being granted by me to Canonical to store, distribute and/or utilize my data, should I not be presented with it when I install the relevant package?

That is to say, if I install shopping-lens, even as part of a metapackage like ubuntu-desktop, should I not have a pop-up (if in Synaptic or Software Center) or a text message with yes/no option (if in aptitude or apt-get) stating the policy and asking if I agree to it?

If I answer no, the shopping-lens package doesn't get installed.

If I answer yes, I've gone into the arrangement with both eyes open and have nothing to complain about.

I didn't have much of an issue with search terms being sent to Canonical and from there sent to Amazon, since I was under the impression that doing so would essentially make the request anonymous from Amazon's end (all searches appearing to originate from Canonical). That type of system would allay my concern over Amazon or another vendor deciding that my searches were in some way outside the bounds.

Reading the Privacy Policy, there seems to be a giving of permission to Canonical to data-mine, keep indefinitely, or otherwise manipulate my data that goes beyond the assumption that the data is being used to service the purpose of the package, that is, searching for items from the Dash.

Maybe Canonical doesn't have any intention to do anything of the sort. If so, the wording is unfortunate and prone to misinterpretation, and needs to be corrected.

That seems to me to be a problem with Canonical recently: attempting to communicate or implement a basically good or useful idea in a way that leads to a backlash. That could have been easily avoided by clear and transparent communication, especially before implementing the changes.

[woodrobin]

Or to phrase it another way, re:


By searching in the dash you consent to:


the collection and use of your search terms and IP address in this way; and
the storage of your search terms and IP address by Canonical and such selected third parties (if applicable).

No, I do not.

By consenting knowingly to an agreement I've been made aware of beforehand, I consent to said agreement. Tucking a legal notice in the far corner of the Dash that tells me I consented to Canonical doing the above by the act of searching, apparently even before this notice was published, does not equal my giving informed consent to anything.

Here, in a nutshell, is the problem: presenting this idea to the community ahead of time would probably have gone over fairly well.

Canonical could have said to the Ubuntu community, "Hey, we're working hard to bring you a fairly awesome GNU/Linux distro. We'd love it if you'd help us out a bit by occasionally searching for stuff on Amazon through the Dash, because we've designed a way to do that where we get some affiliate money if you buy something you found through the Dash."

At that point, I'm fairly certain people would have said, "Sure, I can help out if I'm shopping there anyway, that's cool."

Presenting it as a fait accompli makes it look as if Canonical is hiding something, even if they're not.

What's worse is that this legal notice of data storage is apparently a legal requirement in the U.K. and was implemented after this was pointed out by a member of the community. In other words, it comes across as an forced afterthought rather than an initial free choice to be completely open with the user base.

The initial force behind Ubuntu's rise to popularity was twofold: ease of installation and use, and the feeling of community fostered by the ideals summed up in the word "ubuntu" itself: community, honesty, integrity, sharing.

On the first point, many distros are at least as easy to install as Ubuntu, and a good number are arguably easier to use, given Unity's uphill struggle. So it really isn't a compelling hook to bring in new users or keep present ones.

So the uniqueness of Ubuntu boils down to the sense that it espouses the beliefs it is named after. Fumbling that impression away with bad presentation, bad implementation and/or a failure to communicate is a horribly bad idea.

[cariboo]

Cariboo907:

file:///usr/share/unity/6/searchingthedashlegalnotice.html

IP addresses and search terms.

"It says "Canonical will only use your search terms and IP address in accordance with this legal notice and our privacy (http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/privacypolicy) policy (http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/privacypolicy)."

Check the privacy policy under where it says "Access".

"The information you provide to us will be held on computers and may be accessed by or given to our staff working inside and outside of the UK and to third parties, including contractors and companies within Canonical's group, for the purposes set out in this Privacy Policy, i.e. to provide you with products or services, or as otherwise agreed with you."

Unless there's something else I'm missing. Let me know.

You are implying that all keystrokes are recorded and stored by Canonical, I see nothing about this anywhere.

As I said, if you don't like the shopping lens, either turn it off, or uninstall it. It's your computer, to do what you want with it. You aren't stuck with the defaults at any time.

[Gnawnsense]

From someone who is an average, casual computer consumer who doesn't read every release note on updates, and is absolutely new to Ubuntu and Linux, I had no idea this was in place.

I ran across a bunch of articles lately about Windows 8 vs Ubuntu 12.10, so I gave in and figured why not.

I can't stand Amazon. I have my own personal reasons. It's not privacy issues or anything. I despise the company, I had a very huge ordeal with them and my seller account a year or so back and they made an absolute mess out of the situation. Since then, I want nothing to do with the company.

Then I find out my information is being collected and sent to them. Regardless of what information it is, or how limited, I want nothing to do with it. And this feature should -absolutely- not be an automatically opted-in, or "Opt-Out Only" feature. Incredible.

I was loving my time with Ubuntu, and was really trying to learn the system. I had started a blog about my process of switching and had even donated my would-be $100~ Windows 8 money to a few FOSS companies I felt would make my transition to Ubuntu easier.

And I literally just done uninstalling Ubuntu.

For the average consumer, and one who cares about privacy, why bother with this? I know most people here won't share the view, but that's why there's such growing pains and lack of expansion, among other things.

[Quarkrad]

I must admit I'm struggling a bit here apart from not wanting anything on my pc to go to anybody. I have 12.04 so this is not relevant but I don't quite understand what this whole privacy app does for me in 12.04. As a newbie, I've asked lots of questions over the years, on this forum and never been asked to go near or use the privacy app. If I turn every Record Activity button from ON to OFF in the Privacy app on my 12.04 system what is the effect going to be for me?

[3rdalbum]

I must admit I'm struggling a bit here apart from not wanting anything on my pc to go to anybody. I have 12.04 so this is not relevant but I don't quite understand what this whole privacy app does for me in 12.04. As a newbie, I've asked lots of questions over the years, on this forum and never been asked to go near or use the privacy app. If I turn every Record Activity button from ON to OFF in the Privacy app on my 12.04 system what is the effect going to be for me?

Here's where things get confusing for you.

Ubuntu uses a system called Zeitgeist to power its local search capabilities. Zeitgeist does not touch the internet at all, but a lot of people raised a fuss about "I don't want my system logging things", so Zeitgeist's developers wrote the Privacy program.

If you turn Record Activity off, you are only turning off some of the local recording of some of your actions (done for the purpose of search in the Unity Dash and in some other programs). You can't search your local hard disk using the Dash if you have Zeitgeist off. Some system data will still be logged locally by other pieces of software that are a part of every Linux distribution. Locally logging your actions on your computer is not an invasion of privacy.

Unity's online searching is not done through Zeitgeist, so the Privacy program will not affect the online search.

Thatguruguy said it all: The Unity Dash has been transmitting search queries to third parties for over a year, to power the online Music and Videos search. Most of these companies you will be less familiar with than Amazon.

It's only now, because it's a big company, do people make a fuss. If you don't want the Amazon shopping lens, remove it. I probably will. But don't try to claim that 12.04 or 11.10 never sent search queries to third parties. They did.

[cariboo]

@teslasmoustache, it seems you just created this account to defend your blog post. You only posted one way of disabling the shopping lens, I know of at least 4 ways, I'd like to see a follow up post in your blog, with at least 2 more of them.

[teslasmoustache]

@teslasmoustache, it seems you just created this account to defend your blog post. You only posted one way of disabling the shopping lens, I know of at least 4 ways, I'd like to see a follow up post in your blog, with at least 2 more of them.

It's not my blog. You're right though. This is a new account. I had another one a few years ago from when I had some computer issues. I have since forgotten my password. I use teslasmoustache or teslas_moustache all the time. Not that it's any of your business. The OP and I were having a conversation elsewhere and thought it would be good if the issue got more attention.

[mips]

By default Ubuntu 12.10 will record all your keystrokes / search terms when using the Unity Dash and send it to their servers and other third parties.

If this is true then it's pure evil!

http://changemybiz.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/drevil-_orig1.jpg

[Lucradia]

I use the mini.iso and use the base DEs rather than the default distros for each variant of Ubuntu. I don't like GNOME Shell, so I tend to stick to openbox with no DE or XFCE as I really dislike QT and KDE.

[mips]

I use the mini.iso and use the base DEs rather than the default distros for each variant of Ubuntu.

+1 If I choose to use Ubuntu then that's the only way I would roll.

[woodrobin]

@teslasmoustache, it seems you just created this account to defend your blog post. You only posted one way of disabling the shopping lens, I know of at least 4 ways, I'd like to see a follow up post in your blog, with at least 2 more of them.

Cariboo,

I am the person who introduced teslasmoustache to Ubuntu. I gave him his first install disc, and have had many discussions with him in person about Ubuntu. He was one among many friends, students and associates I've introduced to GNU/Linux through Ubuntu over the years. I also consider him a close friend.

I've been a forum member since 2005, and an Ubuntu user since 5.04. I'm not sure what your criteria are for being involved enough in the community to have a valid opinion, but I'd think that might qualify. I can attest that the blog in question isn't his, nor is it mine, nor do either of us know the author.

I'd think it would be appropriate to issue an apology for falsely accusing someone of sock-puppeting the forum. That's just one person's opinion, though.

[thatguruguy]

What if those keywords happen to be "tor" or "freenet"?


This post has been bugging me. Why would you type "tor" or "freenet" in the Dash? If you want to install a tor client, why wouldn't you just open either the Ubuntu Software Center or Synaptic and install it? Although that would, admittedly, send that request to a server maintained by Canonical. Which, by the way, has been the case since Warthog came out.

If you want to install freenet, which uses java, you'd presumably go to the freenet website and download it. Although again you're sending and receiving information over the internet in order to do so.

I personally wouldn't run either tor or freenet from the Dash; if, for instance, I were running tor, I'd have it set up to run automatically every time I turned on my computer. Maybe with a little onion in my indicator bar to let me know I'm connected to the tor network, or something.

So, again, why would you type either of those particular words in the Dash?

[woodrobin]

This post has been bugging me. Why would you type "tor" or "freenet" in the Dash? If you want to install a tor client, why wouldn't you just open either the Ubuntu Software Center or Synaptic and install it?

Because:


It makes perfect sense to integrate Amazon search results in the Dash, because the Home Lens of the Dash should let you find *anything* anywhere. Over time, we’ll make the Dash smarter and smarter, so you can just ask for whatever you want, and it will Just Work.


The Home Lens of the Dash is a “give me X” experience. You hit the Super key, and say what you want, and we do our best to figure out what you mean, and give you that.



That's the Word from Mark Shuttleworth.

Your specific example depends on knowing where to go to install the software, and having the requisite expertise to circumvent the design and purpose of the Dash. In your case, it is an unnecessary step interposed between what you want to do and where you need to go to do it. In other words, you're not the person the Dash was designed for. For you, as for myself and I suspect many others, it is a solution in search of a problem.

If you're using the Dash in the manner that Mark Shuttleworth seems to intend, it would be your first step on the journey to anywhere you want to go and anything you want to do.

To me, the Dash is the midichlorians of Ubuntu: it fixes a problem I never had and adds something to the experience that I don't really want or need.

The amount of performance, privacy or other issues I'm willing to tolerate from something I have no practical use for in the first place is unsurprisingly less than the amount of nonsense I am willing to tolerate from something I find genuinely useful or necessary.

I think that's another element of the problem: the Dash exists outside of many users' task streams. Putting it outside of their comfort zones too only amplifies the existing problem, moving the Dash from 'do not need' to 'do not want.'

[thatguruguy]

Your specific example depends on knowing where to go to install the software, and having the requisite expertise to circumvent the design and purpose of the Dash. In your case, it is an unnecessary step interposed between what you want to do and where you need to go to do it. In other words, you're not the person the Dash was designed for. For you, as for myself and I suspect many others, it is a solution in search of a problem.


Actually, they weren't my specific examples, they were the specific examples given by teslasmoustache right here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=12311798&postcount=4). And if you are savvy enough to run tor or freenet, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you're savvy enough to be able to figure out how to install them without using the Dash.

As for me, I use the Dash all the time. For instance, just today I repeatedly sent the letters "sy" to Amazon when I wanted to run synaptic, as well as once when I ran system monitor. I think they also received the letters "cc" I typed when I wanted to change something in CCSM. I certainly hope they don't use those letters against me in any significant way.

EDIT: Also, the Ubuntu Software Center appears in the launcher by default. I'm not circumventing the design of Unity when I use it to find programs, really.

[woodrobin]

Actually, they weren't my specific examples, they were the specific examples given by teslasmoustache right here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=12311798&postcount=4). And if you are savvy enough to run tor or freenet, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you're savvy enough to be able to figure out how to install them without using the Dash.

Perhaps I should have said "the examples you mentioned." I didn't mean to give you credit for ideas not your own. My apologies.

I believe my point stands, however, as to the Dash often being a solution in search of a problem. Personally, I've used it exactly often enough to get the programs I regularly use locked onto the launcher, then promptly stopped using it. Not because I give a fig what info from my computer goes to Amazon or elsewhere -- really, I could care less. No, more because I no longer need to use a slow, inconsistent, buggy search function and switch from mouse to keyboard to mouse to achieve what I can now do with one click.

I'll grant that I quite like the idea of the Dash, in theory. In practice, I find that actually trying to use it slows me down. If Dash did what Mark Shuttleworth seems to hope it will one day be capable of doing (acts as a start point for everything from shopping to program launching to file search, etc.) I might find it interesting. If it did it as quickly as I could do any of those things without it, I might actually find it useful.

It's not there yet. I sometimes wonder if it ever will be.


As for me, I use the Dash all the time. For instance, just today I repeatedly sent the letters "sy" to Amazon when I wanted to run synaptic, as well as once when I ran system monitor. I think they also received the letters "cc" I typed when I wanted to change something in CCSM. I certainly hope they don't use those letters against me in any significant way.

Snark duly noted. =D>

I just added Synaptic to the app launcher, so the click on Dash / type letters / wait for results / click on Synaptic process could be reduced to the click on Synaptic process. :)


EDIT: Also, the Ubuntu Software Center appears in the launcher by default. I'm not circumventing the design of Unity when I use it to find programs, really.

Who brought up circumventing the design of Unity? Dash is a small part of Unity. I like the app launcher, personally. I just think Dash has mutated from being a slower variation on the Files / Applications / Settings panel item of Gnome 2 into a hot mess of features that sometimes sort of work right, with a revenue stream wedged tightly up its unmentionables. :grin:

Honestly, since there's no requirement that I use the Unity desktop, I could just chuck it in favour of the kubuntu-desktop package, for instance. After all, the Ubuntu repositories host a plethora of alternatives to a default Ubuntu installation.

[teslasmoustache]

Thatguruguy said it all: The Unity Dash has been transmitting search queries to third parties for over a year, to power the online Music and Videos search. Most of these companies you will be less familiar with than Amazon.

It's only now, because it's a big company, do people make a fuss. If you don't want the Amazon shopping lens, remove it. I probably will. But don't try to claim that 12.04 or 11.10 never sent search queries to third parties. They did.

I don't think there's a perfect answer for this. But my opinion is that when I'm looking for music or videos to purchase from Amazon, I will go to the place where Amazon sells music and videos. I don't want that place to be in front of my face all the time, just like I don't want anyone to build a grocery store on my front lawn.

And when I'm looking for applications to install, it's reasonable for the provider of the software to retrieve certain statistical information about what applications are installed, how often, etc.

I don't want to have to uninstall a bunch of stuff I don't need right out of the box. It's like scraping the mold off of a sandwich before eating it.

I believe it's somewhat significant that it's a big company because big companies are, well, big. They have influence and control over a lot of stuff.

[Gareth Edwards]

Sorry if old dead / dying / decaying thread - but thank you very much for bringing this to my attention.:p