KDE desktop environment

[Welly Wu]

This is a new and important week for me and I decided to switch to KDE Plasma 4.9.1 this week. I am going to take my official ETS Revised GRE this Friday morning and I want to work with KDE this week to get important work done including studying for my exam. Last week, I was using Cinnamon 1.6.0 exclusively and I found out that I liked it, but not enough so that I would consider using it every day. It lacks polish. There are known bugs that need to be fixed especially with applets.

KDE 4 has had a long period of gestation and maturation. It is one of the full featured desktop environments and I can't wait to try out all of its features this week. At first glance, it has the look and feel of a traditional yet modern desktop environment with the KDE button on the lower left corner of the screen and a task bar with system icons on the lower right hand corner of the screen, but that's where things pretty much end. One of the neat features about KDE is the KDE Wallet. This stores your confidential credentials securely and you can create multiple KDE Wallets in multiple locations for different credentials. The Dolphin file manager is also fully featured and it permits me to manage multiple storage devices and mediums quite effectively with great efficiency. It is certainly more fully developed than Nautilus.

KDE is highly customizable. You can add a lot of themes, icons, widgets, applets, etc. You could spend hours and hours customizing it to meet your exact needs. You can also add new themes, icons, widgets, applets, etc. to get the exact look and feel that you want. I just learned that I am using the KDE LightDM version instead of the Ubuntu Unity Greeter after a week of being perplexed on my Ubuntu System76.

I am probably going to take my time to learn how to use KDE Plasma 4.9.1 as there is a lot to learn, but it feels great to use a fully featured desktop environment that leaves little to be desired.

I know that there are a lot of KDE fans here so I would like tips and guides and resources that I should look into to learn more about KDE Plasma. Thank you.

[Welly Wu]

I need an official KDE new user guide or resource that will help me to learn more about how to use it in depth. I have been doing a few searches, but I am also studying for my ETS Revised GRE right now so that is my primary focus while I am at my local public library tonight.

Where should I look for a user guide?

[bra|10n]

Below is a good starting point for you,

http://userbase.kde.org/
http://forums.kde.org/

[forrestcupp]

I'm really loving KDE right now. I like it much better than the other DEs I've used. I haven't used it long enough to give you any advice, though.

[KiwiNZ]

I have tried KDE several times I just cannot seem to like it. I concede it has lost a lot of it's previous Crayola look but it is just not as polished for me as Unity or Gnome is.

Vive la difference, and long live choice.

[NormanFLinux]

This is a new and important week for me and I decided to switch to KDE Plasma 4.9.1 this week. I am going to take my official ETS Revised GRE this Friday morning and I want to work with KDE this week to get important work done including studying for my exam. Last week, I was using Cinnamon 1.6.0 exclusively and I found out that I liked it, but not enough so that I would consider using it every day. It lacks polish. There are known bugs that need to be fixed especially with applets.

KDE 4 has had a long period of gestation and maturation. It is one of the full featured desktop environments and I can't wait to try out all of its features this week. At first glance, it has the look and feel of a traditional yet modern desktop environment with the KDE button on the lower left corner of the screen and a task bar with system icons on the lower right hand corner of the screen, but that's where things pretty much end. One of the neat features about KDE is the KDE Wallet. This stores your confidential credentials securely and you can create multiple KDE Wallets in multiple locations for different credentials. The Dolphin file manager is also fully featured and it permits me to manage multiple storage devices and mediums quite effectively with great efficiency. It is certainly more fully developed than Nautilus.

KDE is highly customizable. You can add a lot of themes, icons, widgets, applets, etc. You could spend hours and hours customizing it to meet your exact needs. You can also add new themes, icons, widgets, applets, etc. to get the exact look and feel that you want. I just learned that I am using the KDE LightDM version instead of the Ubuntu Unity Greeter after a week of being perplexed on my Ubuntu System76.

I am probably going to take my time to learn how to use KDE Plasma 4.9.1 as there is a lot to learn, but it feels great to use a fully featured desktop environment that leaves little to be desired.

I know that there are a lot of KDE fans here so I would like tips and guides and resources that I should look into to learn more about KDE Plasma. Thank you.

If you have problems with Muon - just append kdesudo to the launch command. If it loses its internal super user configuration file you can't install applications when no box to put in your password appears. Better make it an external authorization process like the default with Synaptic.

[WinterMadness]

take a look at my signature to find out what I think about KDE :P

I came to linux around the time KDE 3 was near its end, a few months after I switched KDE 4.0 was released. I had already tried KDE 3 and decided that I liked it a lot more than gnome. Even thugh KDE 4.0 was buggy as it can get, I saw what they were going for and i approved.

You really dont need a tutorial or anything fancy to try out kde, just get in, and try stuff out. its customizable as all hell, but they made it so simple to customize things, that its really just a matter of point and click for most situations.

one thing that i recommend that you check out are activities. lets say you have a few apps/settings/whatever that you like to have open at college. switch to your college activity, and everything will instantly be setup the way you want it in one click, and when you go home, you can switch to your "home" activity instantly. You can even switch to KDE's answer to unity pretty easily (basically just the netbook layout for kde).

[Welly Wu]

I created two activities one for Internet and another for VM Ware Workstation. Mozilla Thunderbird keeps crashing on me in KDE. It won't launch properly. I need it to send GnuPG encrypted e-mail messages. How do I fix this problem?

[bra|10n]

I have tried KDE several times I just cannot seem to like it. I concede it has lost a lot of it's previous Crayola look but it is just not as polished for me as Unity or Gnome is.

Vive la difference, and long live choice.

As a KDE user I have to agree. 'Progress' always seems to be a situation of two steps forward, and then one step back.
(Dolphin) rename inline for example, why?, when a dialog is necessary for multiple renames...

http://i.imgur.com/W1t0H.png

OT,
Have you installed the kubuntu-desktop package into Ubuntu or have you installed a dedicated KDE distro to another partition?

[fontis]

I have tried KDE several times I just cannot seem to like it. I concede it has lost a lot of it's previous Crayola look but it is just not as polished for me as Unity or Gnome is.



This made me LOL.:lolflag:

[KiwiNZ]

This made me LOL.:lolflag:

Why

[Welly Wu]

Mozilla Thunderbird works now. I don't know what happened. I didn't change anything except to switch from headphones to speakers in sound.

[KiwiNZ]

Mozilla Thunderbird works now. I don't know what happened. I didn't change anything except to switch from headphones to speakers in sound.

Your headphones are possessed :p

[smellyman]

KDE is awesome. so much more advanced and customisable.

small things like the unity launcher, gnome launcher, mac os launchpad etc. that are hyped and worked on....kde is so flexible some guy was like I'll write that and the kde takeoff luancher is better than all of those....

[Erik1984]

Thunderbird behaved a bit weird here too (Kubuntu Precise). It had very high cpu usage but that problem seems to have gone somehow... For the rest I agree with the things said by most people in this topic. KDE looks great and is very configurable (that's why I keep coming back) but still has its quirks. Sometimes applications or services just crash (gracefully I have to say) for no apparent reason. On the other hand Ubuntu with Unity can also produce cryptic error messages. No system is perfect, vive le/la choice :P

[forrestcupp]

I created two activities one for Internet and another for VM Ware Workstation. Mozilla Thunderbird keeps crashing on me in KDE. It won't launch properly. I need it to send GnuPG encrypted e-mail messages. How do I fix this problem?I see that you got it working, but you probably should start putting these things in the support sections of the forum.


This made me LOL.:lolflag:
Me too. I respect people's opinion and preference for other types of desktop environments, but more "polished" is not how I would describe Unity and Gnome Shell. What does polished mean? KDE4 is much more mature and polished that Unity and Gnome Shell. Though,it might not be better in some people's opinion.

[tjeremiah]

I really like their file manager. If I can get dolphin without all the KDE extras (buttons and all those additional installations) , I would use it with Ubuntu.

[kio_http]

I have tried KDE several times I just cannot seem to like it. I concede it has lost a lot of it's previous Crayola look but it is just not as polished for me as Unity or Gnome is.

Vive la difference, and long live choice.


This made me LOL.:lolflag:

I always found your Crayola remark amusing too. So I found it funny too.

Well I'm a long time KDE user and used even the crashy releases like 4.0 beta to help iron out the bugs. I appreciated older gnome releases but gnome-shell is not for me. Unity in 11.04 was ok and its features in 12.04 seem nice for someone who doesn't want to customise it but Kde definitely outperforms it for me and I use really slow hardware and have no plans to upgrade at the moment.

To the Op see the link in my signature.

[Linux_junkie]

Just one little thing. It's known as K desktop environment not KDE desktop environment.

If it was KDE desktop environment it would be known as KDEDE

[Elfy]

Just one little thing. It's known as K desktop environment not KDE desktop environment.

If it was KDE desktop environment it would be known as KDEDE

I'm sure people will forgive him ;)

[forrestcupp]

I'm sure people will forgive him ;)
I'm having a hard time deciding if I will or not. :)

[orange2k]

I have tried Kubuntu a few times, but every time it was slow to start up when booting and get fully functional. Plus I don't like the menu system in KDE4, and I don't like Amarok 2.

Maybe I should try another flavor of KDE4 like the new OpenSuse...

But I like K3b and Clementine (fork of Amarok 1)...

[kio_http]

I have tried Kubuntu a few times, but every time it was slow to start up when booting and get fully functional. Plus I don't like the menu system in KDE4, and I don't like Amarok 2.

Maybe I should try another flavor of KDE4 like the new OpenSuse...

But I like K3b and Clementine (fork of Amarok 1)...

I'm interested for the purpose of statistics.

When did you try KDE and do you remember the version number? Elaborate what you dislike about the menu system? Which menu system did you use k-menu, search and launch on desktop (similar to unity), krunner (Alt + F2), lancelot?

Did you try a recent release like 4.9.1? Personally I don't think OpenSuSe is a good idea anymore perhaps waiting for Kubuntu 12.10 is better or even 12.04 updated to 4.9.1.

Also you might like the link in my signiture concerning performance. Recent releases definitely outperform Unity on my slowish system.

[orange2k]

I'm interested for the purpose of statistics.

When did you try KDE and do you remember the version number? Elaborate what you dislike about the menu system? Which menu system did you use k-menu, search and launch on desktop (similar to unity), krunner (Alt + F2), lancelot?

Did you try a recent release like 4.9.1? Personally I don't think OpenSuSe is a good idea anymore perhaps waiting for Kubuntu 12.10 is better or even 12.04 updated to 4.9.1.

Also you might like the link in my stick concerning performance. Recent releases definitely outperform Unity on my slowish system.

I tried Kubuntu 11.10, but I didn't do a clean install, rather installed it from within Ubuntu CLI, maybe thats why it was unresponsive.

I think I used the K-menu, not sure. What I didn't like is that you first click on the K, then on a main menu, which opens up another submenu, and then another one, its just annoying when compared to the old Gnome 2 style menu system.

Maybe things got faster in 4.9.1, I'll try that.

Just one thing - do you think that installing it alongside Unity (apt-get install kubuntu-desktop) will decrease performance?

[kio_http]

I tried Kubuntu 11.10, but I didn't do a clean install, rather installed it from within Ubuntu CLI, maybe thats why it was unresponsive.

I think I used the K-menu, not sure.

Maybe things got faster in 4.9.1, I'll try that.

Just one thing - do you think that installing it alongside Unity (apt-get install kubuntu-desktop) will decrease performance?

Well generally no but sometimes if some gtk stuff especially wants to autostart in the background it can. Maybe you have a hardware conflict or something.

Note: By default KDE restores your previous session if you leave apps open etc and this can slow start-up. This setting can be changed though or you can use hibernate (suspend to disk).

If you used k-menu maybe alternative stuff like lancelot might interest you. Actually most KDE power users don't use the default k-menu not even the developer of k-menu itself. Krunner is the most powerful but you need to be familiar with it and its plugins.

[orange2k]

Well generally no but sometimes if some gtk stuff especially wants to autostart in the background it can. Maybe you have a hardware conflict or something.

Note: By default KDE restores your previous session if you leave apps open etc and this can slow start-up. This setting can be changed though or you can use hibernate (suspend to disk).

Well, the last time I tried Kubuntu, it took over 3 minutes to boot to a usable system, even then opening menus was rather sluggish...

[orange2k]

I'll go for it...

I'll install kde-full to see how it performs...
wish me luck...:KS

[kio_http]

I'll go for it...

I'll install kde-full to see how it performs...
wish me luck...:KS

Make sure you read my signature link and instructions on kubuntu.org about kde 4.9.1. I'd recommend kubuntu-desktop instead of kde-full. Kubuntu-desktop is quite vanilla KDE anyway and has a nice default software selection.

[orange2k]

Make sure you read my signature link and instructions on kubuntu.org about kde 4.9.1. I'd recommend kubuntu-desktop instead of kde-full. Kubuntu-desktop is quite vanilla KDE anyway and has a nice default software selection.

Ok...:D

[Tac2]

KDE is awesome. I love how it can be moulded into anything, and it has such great features. I have only been using it since Kubuntu 12.04 beta 2, but now I can hardly imagine life without it :P Especially important for me are activities, the grid desktop and folder view. And of course KIO and Krunner. And Kile, Kate, Dolphin, Marble, etc..,

On my hardware KDE performs well and is pretty stable (I am on 4.8.5, stock Kubuntu 12.04). I really hope the KDE people can keep gradually improving it. I disabled Nepomuk because it was rather unstable (and I never used it), but it sounds very interesting and if more polished I'd definitively try and use it more.

Here is some inspiration for playing with and learning KDE:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BHqRRP9fVHQ - a video on how to apply a specific style, but with a bunch of good UI tricks.
http://chakra-linux.org/wiki/index.php/Advanced_Plasma_Desktop_Features - a quick tour of some of the Plasma features.
http://martys.typepad.com/blog/2011/12/the-great-features-of-kde-workspaces-and-applications-part-iv-kio.html - a blog post on KIO, part of a series on KDE. Check out the rest of the series as well.
http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Kubuntu_Precise - general guide to everything.

[orange2k]

Oh yes, KDE seems to be loading much faster now, and I haven't even touched any settings yet...
Very nice to see improvements...:D

Now lets tweak it! :KS

[Welly Wu]

K Desktop Environment is a resource hog! It eats up my battery life like nobody's business. I am getting less than 3.5 hours of battery life with KDE.

Another thing that I noticed is that I have to rely on KWallet almost all of the time. I have to open my KWallet frequently to access my LUKS encrypted drives and I have to use it again to connect to my WiTopia personal VPN pro gateways. Sometimes, it does not allow me to connect to a specific VPN gateway after I type in my KWallet password. I am concerned about the security of the KWallet file. What kind of encryption does it use?

I found it:

http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/kdeutils/kwallet/introduction.html#ftn.id409342

KWallet uses the Blowfish cipher which is currently unbroken at 128 bits or higher. KWallet uses 156 bits of encryption. It also uses SHA-1 to hash the passwords. This is sufficiently safe and secure enough for general purpose usage. My /home partition is encrypted using AES-256 where my KWallet file is stored.

It can be annoying to use KWallet all of the time. I have to type in my passwords all of the time to access features in KDE. However, it provides an additional layer of security that I have not found in the other desktop environments.

I am getting used to the activities feature. It is very similar to the virtual desktop feature except I can add a bunch of KDE applications and widgets to each activity and save my sessions independently. I think that this is a useful feature and it makes KDE more advanced than Ubuntu Unity.

KDE is very pretty. There are a ton of eye candy effects and plug-ins that can be added or enabled instantly. It makes for an interesting and visually stunning desktop environment.

I have not tried out the other features mentioned, but I will get around to them later this week.

[KiwiNZ]

I think you are crippling your machine by excessive security.

[Welly Wu]

KDE 4.9.2 will be released on October 2nd, 2012. There are a couple of new features like Klook and there will be more bug fixes and other improvements to the code base.

GNOME 3.6.0 will be released tomorrow. There are quite a number of significant new features that will be added and more bug fixes and improvements to the code base.

Good times!

[Welly Wu]

I am not going to get attacked or hacked and make it easier for my attacker to succeed. An attack can destroy PC hardware, software, and user data.

Until it happens to you, then you have no idea how devastating it can be. Put yourself in my shoes for a change.

[KiwiNZ]

I am not going to get attacked or hacked and make it easier for my attacker to succeed. An attack can destroy PC hardware, software, and user data.

Until it happens to you, then you have no idea how devastating it can be. Put yourself in my shoes for a change.


Woah!!! calm down, it was friendly advice.

Excessive security puts in place many hurdles for your system and software to deal with thus giving the impression that it is the OS or the software that is slow and a resource hog when it is the security measures that are the problem. If you want to load up a machine with excessive security there will be a cost for you to accept, that cost is reduced performance.

[Welly Wu]

So far, most of the current versions of the desktop environments are highly responsive. I don't have a problem with the performance, but KDE and Unity and GNOME are not energy efficient. They consume more energy and thus eat up more battery life more quickly than XFCE, LXDE, or Cinnamon.

My main concern is speed or performance, but usability, responsiveness, and energy efficiency.

Sorry to come off so harshly.

[MG&TL]

I am not going to get attacked or hacked and make it easier for my attacker to succeed. An attack can destroy PC hardware, software, and user data.


Uhh...I'm just going to be curious (and probably annoying) here. So if I anger you, ignore me.

If the cracker's just wanting to destroy your data, then why are you worried about enryption? You can still remove the file (or just dd the filesystem) even if it's encrypted.

Also, I'm confused about how remote access == hardware destruction. At worst an overheat, surely?

[Welly Wu]

I have backups that I keep offline.

[KiwiNZ]

I do not believe any of the main OS's are that Laptop friendly, be it Windows ( can't say for Win 8 I have not tried the final on a Laptop), OSX or Linux (full flavored Distro's).

As soon as features are added, eg Flash, AV etc performance receives a hit.

[Welly Wu]

One type of targeted attack is to erase the media access control code on the wired and wireless NIC which will create a denial of service for the targeted PC. It happened to me several years ago when the US government attacked my HP desktop PC running Windows XP Pro SP-3 in 2008. Almost anyone can download and perform the same type of attack on your PC. This is why I chose to purchase WiTopia Personal VPN Pro. It makes it almost impossible for attackers to sniff your packets inside the encrypted tunnel and it replaces your real IP address given to you by your ISP with a different IP address located anywhere in the world.

*snip*

[Welly Wu]

The problem with energy efficiency and performance is not with the OS primarily, but the PC hardware being used and the user himself with his specific case usage scenario and work flow.

Lighter weight desktop environments like XFCE, LXDE, and Cinnamon along with Enlightenment E17 make a trade off between full features and bare essentials. These DEs are typically much faster and more highly responsive than KDE or GNOME or Ubuntu Unity.

I know what to expect with KDE 4.x. I accept the decrease in energy efficiency and battery life because I am learning about its rich features set. This is just an experiment for this week. Next week, I will try another DE.

Security features make a trade off among convenience and restrictions. They don't effect system performance that much in Ubuntu, but they do slow down the user when he has to put in passwords. That creates the impression that the DE is slower, but it is not the case.

Bruce Schneier had it right when he said that he tries to make his PCs as secure as possible so it permits him to have an open 802.11 Wi-Fi hotspot at home as a gesture of politeness for his guests. This is a good idea worth pursuing. Harden and lock down your OS and software applications so that you can use it in almost any network environment.

[Pogeymanz]

I really don't see a difference in battery life with KDE versus anything else (assuming compositing is enabled in whatever environment I'm using).

I also have nepomuk turned off, which I'm sure would drain my battery quite quickly if it were on.

So, just so people who read this later know: You can still have access to most of KDE's awesome features without killing your battery life. Just turn Nepomuk off.

[BigCityCat]

So far, most of the current versions of the desktop environments are highly responsive. I don't have a problem with the performance, but KDE and Unity and GNOME are not energy efficient. They consume more energy and thus eat up more battery life more quickly than XFCE, LXDE, or Cinnamon.

My main concern is speed or performance, but usability, responsiveness, and energy efficiency.

Sorry to come off so harshly.

Try installing jupiter from the webupd8 ppa.

[Welly Wu]

I do have the Jupiter PPA and app installed.

Look, I have not timed the battery life with KDE yet. I will do that tomorrow when I go back to my public library. If I can still get 4 hours of battery life, then this issue will be resolved for me.

I just added the Intel Sandybridge New Acceleration (SNA) PPA and I turned it on in my xorg.conf file in my /etc/X11 folder. It works. I am getting much faster Intel HD Graphics 4000 speed and performance. KDE is much quicker and much more responsive. It is a dramatic improvement across the board.

My other issue with KDE responsiveness is now solved.

Don't get me wrong. KDE is wonderful. It's the best desktop environment that I have tried so far. I have not even gotten to configuring the settings yet. I will do that tomorrow.

I like KDE a lot. I can see why others feel at home with KDE. It looks like Microsoft Windows 7 quite closely. It makes me feel right at home.

[bra|10n]

K Desktop Environment is a resource hog! It eats up my battery life like nobody's business. I am getting less than 3.5 hours of battery life with KDE.or

The problem with energy efficiency and performance is not with the OS primarily, but the PC hardware being used and the user himself with his specific case usage scenario and work flow.Seems that you are undecided on this aspect...


I also have nepomuk turned off, which I'm sure would drain my battery quite quickly if it were on.

Are you sure? I thought Nepomuk only indexes newly added or changed files since last index, otherwise remains idle, i.e cpu=0%.

[Welly Wu]

I use Opera web browser and I turned on 3D graphics hardware acceleration and OpenGL. I also just turned on Intel SNA. The combination is unbelievable! Graphics are blazing fast! It was very fast before, but it is a graphical speed demon now. I am running some OpenGL tests and I am seeing at least 20 percent improvements in speed across the board in Opera.

KDE is much faster now too. I can turn on all of the plug-ins and the effects and it is highly highly responsive. The speed and performance are just terrific with Intel SNA especially for the Ivy Bridge HD Graphics 4000. It is a significant boost in graphics performance and it can be readily seen.

[Welly Wu]

http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/results?key=5xlm&resultId=2663169

I got a Peacekeeper score of 3110 and HTML5 score of 6/7. This are the highest scores that I have ever achieved after making my changes.

Back to KDE.

What is grid view? What does it do?

What is Nepomuk? What does it do?

[Welly Wu]

http://userbase.kde.org/Nepomuk

Nepomuk seems to be a useful feature. I turned it on to index all of my files on all of my drives. I guess that will slow it down quite a bit, but I want an index for faster searches in the future.

[AllRadioisDead]

I do not believe any of the main OS's are that Laptop friendly, be it Windows ( can't say for Win 8 I have not tried the final on a Laptop), OSX or Linux (full flavored Distro's).

As soon as features are added, eg Flash, AV etc performance receives a hit.

What's wrong with OSX? I've never owned a Mac, but from my experience using Macbooks and OSX on my desktop, the trackpad on them is amazing. The gestures are extremely useful.

As for Windows 8, the trackpad drivers are much better and smoother than Windows 7. Scrolling through the Start screen is fluid and there are many gestures you can perform with the trackpad itself such as cycling through apps or bringing up the charms menu.

[KiwiNZ]

What's wrong with OSX? I've never owned a Mac, but from my experience using Macbooks and OSX on my desktop, the trackpad on them is amazing. The gestures are extremely useful.

As for Windows 8, the trackpad drivers are much better and smoother than Windows 7. Scrolling through the Start screen is fluid and there are many gestures you can perform with the trackpad itself such as cycling through apps or bringing up the charms menu.

I did not say OSX or any of the mentioned OS's were not good, I said they are not that Laptop friendly.

[NormanFLinux]

K Desktop Environment is a resource hog! It eats up my battery life like nobody's business. I am getting less than 3.5 hours of battery life with KDE.

Another thing that I noticed is that I have to rely on KWallet almost all of the time. I have to open my KWallet frequently to access my LUKS encrypted drives and I have to use it again to connect to my WiTopia personal VPN pro gateways. Sometimes, it does not allow me to connect to a specific VPN gateway after I type in my KWallet password. I am concerned about the security of the KWallet file. What kind of encryption does it use?

I found it:

http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/kdeutils/kwallet/introduction.html#ftn.id409342

KWallet uses the Blowfish cipher which is currently unbroken at 128 bits or higher. KWallet uses 156 bits of encryption. It also uses SHA-1 to hash the passwords. This is sufficiently safe and secure enough for general purpose usage. My /home partition is encrypted using AES-256 where my KWallet file is stored.

It can be annoying to use KWallet all of the time. I have to type in my passwords all of the time to access features in KDE. However, it provides an additional layer of security that I have not found in the other desktop environments.

I am getting used to the activities feature. It is very similar to the virtual desktop feature except I can add a bunch of KDE applications and widgets to each activity and save my sessions independently. I think that this is a useful feature and it makes KDE more advanced than Ubuntu Unity.

KDE is very pretty. There are a ton of eye candy effects and plug-ins that can be added or enabled instantly. It makes for an interesting and visually stunning desktop environment.

I have not tried out the other features mentioned, but I will get around to them later this week.

KWallet always asks at boot up for your password to connect to the Internet? Change it to blank and it will stop bugging you for your password every time you login. Just be aware there are certain circumstances were it may not be advisable to connect automatically. But you can always activate your KWallet password when necessary to prevent undesired access to your network.

[AllRadioisDead]

I did not say OSX or any of the mentioned OS's were not good, I said they are not that Laptop friendly.

That's what I was referring to.
I found OSX to be extremely laptop friendly with the trackpad gestures for things like full screen apps, mission control, expose, etc.

[KiwiNZ]

That's what I was referring to.
I found OSX to be extremely laptop friendly with the trackpad gestures for things like full screen apps, mission control, expose, etc.

The functionality of OSX was very good and yes the MacBook Pro's and Air's trackpad in my opinion is second to none. Where OSX is not good for Notebooks is it's power and memory management, the later being of particular concern.

[TheMTtakeover]

The functionality of OSX was very good and yes the MacBook Pro's and Air's trackpad in my opinion is second to none. Where OSX is not good for Notebooks is it's power and memory management, the later being of particular concern.

You speak the truth my friend.

[orange2k]

Second day of testing new KDE 4.9.1...
Everything is fast, no hickups, no glitches...
Woohoo, the developers really did their work nicely...
:guitar:

[Statia]

http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/results?key=5xlm&resultId=2663169

I got a Peacekeeper score of 3110 and HTML5 score of 6/7. This are the highest scores that I have ever achieved after making my changes.


I might switch browsers:

Firefox: 2333
Chrome: 4013

[forrestcupp]

One type of targeted attack is to erase the media access control code on the wired and wireless NIC which will create a denial of service for the targeted PC. It happened to me several years ago when the US government attacked my HP desktop PC running Windows XP Pro SP-3 in 2008. Almost anyone can download and perform the same type of attack on your PC. This is why I chose to purchase WiTopia Personal VPN Pro. It makes it almost impossible for attackers to sniff your packets inside the encrypted tunnel and it replaces your real IP address given to you by your ISP with a different IP address located anywhere in the world.

*snip*

So you're saying that the US government attacked your computer? :confused:

[orange2k]

Its actually not such a bad idea to get a VPN service for the sake of privacy on the internet...
Especially because of the government attacks on users privacy all over the world, recently...

a little bit offtopic now...

[Ji Ruo]

One type of targeted attack is to erase the media access control code on the wired and wireless NIC which will create a denial of service for the targeted PC. It happened to me several years ago when the US government attacked my HP desktop PC running Windows XP Pro SP-3 in 2008. Almost anyone can download and perform the same type of attack on your PC. This is why I chose to purchase WiTopia Personal VPN Pro. It makes it almost impossible for attackers to sniff your packets inside the encrypted tunnel and it replaces your real IP address given to you by your ISP with a different IP address located anywhere in the world.

*snip*

I was going to say, if you are referring to the MAC address I have only ever heard of it being hardwired (read-only) onto the card or chip. However it is read into memory at bootup and that value can be changed.

Oh, and huzzah for KDE. My favourite desktop by far.

[kio_http]

So far, most of the current versions of the desktop environments are highly responsive. I don't have a problem with the performance, but KDE and Unity and GNOME are not energy efficient. They consume more energy and thus eat up more battery life more quickly than XFCE, LXDE, or Cinnamon.

My main concern is speed or performance, but usability, responsiveness, and energy efficiency.

Sorry to come off so harshly.

If you monitor your processes well and use the proper settings when on battery KDE offers decent battery life. (Assuming you do not keep logging out and logging in)

[kio_http]

Second day of testing new KDE 4.9.1...
Everything is fast, no hickups, no glitches...
Woohoo, the developers really did their work nicely...
:guitar:

Glad it worked out! Be sure to report any bugs you find though.

[Tac2]

Back to KDE.

What is grid view? What does it do?



Folder View is a widget you can put on your desktop which shows the contents of a folder.

The grid desktop I mentioned is actually a layout for the desktop. If you right click the desktop and say Configure Desktop (or something similar) you get a window where, at the top, you can choose the layout for your desktop (widgets must be unlocked). For example it can be Folder View (the entire desktop will be one big Folder View, like in Windows) or Search and Launch. If you install the package plasma-containments-addons you get more choice, and of those you can pick is Grid Desktop.

What is special about the Grid Desktop is that it puts an invisible grid on your desktop, so that you can align the widgets on your desktop nicely (they turn me insane if not properly aligned :P ). If you drag a widget onto the Grid Desktop you will be able to see the grid. You can add more rows and columns to the grid by moving your mouse to the edge of the sides of your screen, where a panel will pop up with buttons for adding/remove rows and columns. More info at http://chakra-linux.org/wiki/index.php/Advanced_Plasma_Desktop_Features#The_Grid_Desktop

I'm not sure if you were hinting at some other grid view, but the above is what I referred to in my earlier post.

[Welly Wu]

I am done with K Desktop Environment for this week. I switched back to Ubuntu Unity. KDE is slightly annoying because of the KWallet feature. The other problem is that whenever I try to unlock my PC after the blank screen saver kicks in, it fails to respond. KDE is a good desktop environment, but it is too finicky for me. The KWallet feature alone is a deal breaker for me and I like more security features. It's just too cumbersome for me.

I may try it out this weekend to give it another chance, but I've pretty much concluded my views about KDE.

I need to drink more coffee soon.

[kio_http]

I am done with K Desktop Environment for this week. I switched back to Ubuntu Unity. KDE is slightly annoying because of the KWallet feature. The other problem is that whenever I try to unlock my PC after the blank screen saver kicks in, it fails to respond. KDE is a good desktop environment, but it is too finicky for me. The KWallet feature alone is a deal breaker for me and I like more security features. It's just too cumbersome for me.

I may try it out this weekend to give it another chance, but I've pretty much concluded my views about KDE.

I need to drink more coffee soon.

KDE wallet is highly configurable and can even be disabled. I believe you are doing something wrong. What exactly is the problem with it. You just have to open the wallet once and set programs to allow always. Besides kwallet is just like gnome-keyring.

[GeneralZod]

Yeah, that's a bit odd - I'm only prompted by kwallet once at session start up, and after that it handles everything silently and automatically.

[Welly Wu]

It appears that I was using the default kdewallet instead of my Welly Wu KWallet file. I merged the two wallets to my latter one and I dismounted my LUKS drives. I re-mounted them and it seems that KWallet works properly now. I am only prompted to unlock my KWallet once and it puts in the appropriate passwords for the LUKS drives automatically. Dolphin is telling me that I have Data Drives 1 - 4 and Encrypted Containers both of which are accessible. I am wondering what is the difference between the two encrypted containers and my original Data Drives 1 - 4 in Dolphin.

This problem with KWallet seems to be solved for now.

I'll be using KDE this weekend to test it out further.

[Welly Wu]

I can't use Adobe AIR for Linux apps like Zinio Reader 4 for my digital magazines in KDE 4.9.1. This is critically important to me. It looks like KDE is done for good.

[kio_http]

I can't use Adobe AIR for Linux apps like Zinio Reader 4 for my digital magazines in KDE 4.9.1. This is critically important to me. It looks like KDE is done for good.

Adobe Air has been discontinues since a year now. Why should it work on KDE 4.9.1?

[GeneralZod]

Try here (http://helpx.adobe.com/air/kb/troubleshoot-encrypted-local-storage-els.html), and also the last post in this (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1060292) thread.

[Welly Wu]

It worked!

I can use Zinio Reader 4 in KDE for the first time.

KDE is coming along much more smoothly now.

I noticed that Opera 12.02 64 bit web browser keeps randomly crashing in KDE more so than Ubuntu Unity. Anyone know a solution to this problem?

I am still testing the screen saver issue. I rebooted my System76 PC to see if that will solve the problem or not. We shall see.

[KiwiNZ]

I have experienced your Opera issues across platforms and the only solution I found was to delete Opera and use a different browser. IMHO Opera is a sub par product.

[Welly Wu]

The screen saver issue is fixed after a reboot of my System76 PC. I can log in and unlock my session once again.

I now understand that Opera is a faulty product so I will switch to Mozilla Firefox this weekend. It crashes much less frequently.

My experience is that Mozilla Firefox is much faster than Opera even with Opera Turbo, 3D graphics hardware acceleration, and OpenGL turned on in Opera. I don't know why this is the case, but it seems to be the case on my PC.

K Desktop Environment is quickly shaping up to be my favorite desktop environment of all time. It has oodles of new features and lots of configurable settings. I can play with it for a very long period of time and perhaps never get bored. It is stable and mature and it is full featured. I really like it so far.

I think that I am going to go to sleep early tonight. I did not get much sleep last night and I took my ETS Revised GRE this morning so I feel tired.

[forrestcupp]

The way you were asking about how to install the latest Gnome, I thought you gave up on KDE.

[Welly Wu]

I am getting used to K Desktop Environment now. I finally figured out that I had to delete and re-download my Zinio magazines in order to read them in Zinio Reader 4. I also figured out how to get it to work in KDE 4.9.1. I also learned how to launch Adobe Acrobat Reader 9.5.1 in KDE 4.9.1.

It's a good desktop environment. I was at the West Orange Public Library this afternoon after I took my ETS Revised GRE this morning and KDE 4.9.1 reported that I had about 4 hours of battery life left. So, in terms of energy efficiency, it seems that it is competitive with Ubuntu Unity and GNOME 3.4.2. If I want to enhance energy efficiency, then I can go with XFCE, LXDE, or Cinnamon for longer battery life.

The best thing that I like about KDE is the beautiful desktop environment and I also like the fact that I can configure it to exactly the way that I want it to work for me.

I use BitTorrent a lot so I have yet to try out KTorrent. I think that it is a suitable alternative though I need to do more research into torrent clients.

Which torrent client is highly recommended and why? I want something that is full featured and highly customizable other than KTorrent as a backup program.

KDE is really nice. It makes my digital work flow more logical and easier to manage. I like the layout a lot and it reminds me of Microsoft Windows 7 64 bit.

Now that I got KWallet to work properly, that problem is solved for me. I am able to use my LUKS encrypted drives the way that they should work or at least that the way that they work in GNOME and Ubuntu Unity and Cinnamon. That was a major headache for me to retype the same password over and over again.

Zinio Reader 4 now works properly again. I can download and view Zinio digital magazines properly again. This was another significant problem that was solved tonight.

I will continue to try out KDE 4.9.1 this weekend to see how I like it. I am going to use LibreOffice Writer to type out my essays for my graduate application to Montclair State University this weekend and I will submit it online to their application website on October 1st, 2012. I expect to be accepted into my degree program because I am an alma mater and a graduate of MSU and I am a alumnus seeking a masters degree in the same English department.

[kio_http]

Welly Wu, I find it really amusing the way you basically say KDE is awesome, and then no this one thing isn't working right, I'm going back to Unity and then again KDE is awesome.

But I guess most of us are like that when switching systems and I've had a lot of that behavior when converting people from Windows to Linux based systems.

[Welly Wu]

Yeah, I can be funny when I don't even try to be.

I'm using KTorrent right now and it seems to be working properly. It pauses and resumes frequently and randomly which I don't understand why this is happening, but it seems to work now.

KDE is pretty unique in that it can grow on you. Once you get the big picture, it's hard to go back to another desktop environment because you notice all of the KDE features that are missing. It's the most reliable and stable DE that I have tried thus far. It has never crashed on me yet.

I'm using Ubuntu Unity much less often now. I still find it useful when I want to test something, but that is pretty rare now.

KDE reminds me of Windows and that's a good thing. There is less of a learning curve and it's really consistent and logical once you learn how it works.

I think that Ubuntu users here have been keen to see me switch to KDE. That's my suspicion.

It's all good though.

[kio_http]

I do not believe any of the main OS's are that Laptop friendly, be it Windows ( can't say for Win 8 I have not tried the final on a Laptop), OSX or Linux (full flavored Distro's).

As soon as features are added, eg Flash, AV etc performance receives a hit.

What would you like to see in a laptop OS?

[Welly Wu]

I hate KDE's screen saver and screen savings settings. They require me to suspend my System76 and resume it from suspension in order to be able to log back in and unlock my PC. I am done with KDE this week. I am switching to GNOME 3.5.4 and later 3.6.0.

[Welly Wu]

There are a couple of things that I don't like about K Desktop Environment:

1. KWallet is still a pain to manage my credentials.

2. My LUKS encrypted data drives are labeled Data Drive 1 - 5. KDE treats them as encrypted containers and Data Drives in Dolphin. FAIL.

3. The screen saver and screen savings features disable the login screen after they kick in and I have to suspend my System76 PC and resume it from suspension to log back in. FAIL.

4. KDE makes it a pain to see notifications as they disappear too quickly. FAIL.

KDE is still useful, but it is not right for me as a DE for permanent usage.

[kio_http]

I hate KDE's screen saver and screen savings settings. They require me to suspend my System76 and resume it from suspension in order to be able to log back in and unlock my PC. I am done with KDE this week. I am switching to GNOME 3.5.4 and later 3.6.0.

So it basically works like this

1) Install KDE
2) State KDE is awesome
3) Issue with some program or mistake while configuring (e.g Kwallet)
4) State that KDE is not up to the job and that you are done with KDE.
5) Back to Gnome
6) Get a response about configuring something in KDE
7) State KDE is awesome
8) Loop back to ^3.

If you really want to use KDE, compile a list of all problems you have and perhaps KDE users like myself can help you out. If you prefer Unity / Gnome-shell, use that instead.

[forrestcupp]

I hate KDE's screen saver and screen savings settings. They require me to suspend my System76 and resume it from suspension in order to be able to log back in and unlock my PC. I am done with KDE this week. I am switching to GNOME 3.5.4 and later 3.6.0.

Lol.

KDE is awesome ... No it's not ... Oh wait, yes it is ... No, I guess it's not.

Did you try messing with the Power Management settings? Also, have you tried asking for help in the help sections of the forum? You do realize that the Cafe is for discussion and not for support, right? If you're having problems, you should create a separate thread in the help sections for each problem that you have. You shouldn't be so flighty without attempting to have people help you figure out your problems.

[Welly Wu]

Yeah yeah yeah. I get the joke on me.

I am ending my usage of KDE early this Saturday afternoon. I learned quite a bit.

I am back to using Cinnamon this weekend.

Next week, I will use GNOME 3.5.4 and perhaps I will get an update to 3.6.0.

[forrestcupp]

Yeah yeah yeah. I get the joke on me.

I am ending my usage of KDE early this Saturday afternoon. I learned quite a bit.

I am back to using Cinnamon this weekend.

Next week, I will use GNOME 3.5.4 and perhaps I will get an update to 3.6.0.

That's the great thing about Linux. We have a lot of free choices, and we don't have to stick to any one if we don't want to.

[kio_http]

Yeah yeah yeah. I get the joke on me.


Glad you appreciate the humor, it was personally very entertaining to me.

I really appreciate that you are taking the time to try out different DE's though but I think you are a bit rash and jump to conclusions too quickly.

[Welly Wu]

I know that I stated that I will upgrade to Microsoft Windows 8 Pro 64 bit and Office 2013 Home Premium Subscription, but that is too true. GNU/Linux offers users an abundance of choices most of which are completely free. Previously, I would get bored with Windows 7 64 bit Ultimate Edition Service Pack 1. It had the same look and feel and changing themes and wallpapers did not really do much to change that. GNU/Linux is wonderfully flexible and versatile. There is something for everyone.

K Desktop Environment is good. It's very pretty and highly useful. I don't doubt that I might use it more often in the future, but for now I have learned just enough about it to try something else. The KWallet feature is a good idea in theory, but it needs to have finer granular access control. At least that's how I perceive it as I can only add credentials for Zinio, LUKS encrypted drives, and that's about it for now. It's a little bit slow after I log in, but it is fast and highly responsive during actual usage.

I am searching for the right desktop environment that meets the needs of my digital work flow. It's heavy on multimedia software applications and a lot of them are third-party software vendors like Zinio, Spotify, Hulu, Amazon, and Hand Brake. Zinio in particular is finicky as it only works on GNOME or KDE. I can not switch between both and continue to use Zinio. I have to delete my ELS store credentials and I have to re-download the same Zinio digital magazines when I make the switch because it uses Adobe Air. I use the legacy Adobe Air 2.6.0 for Linux which is no longer supported.

KDE looks great, but it is a bit cumbersome when it comes to managing multiple windows across multiple virtual desktops or activities. I have not found an elegant solution to this problem with any desktop environment yet at least in Ubuntu. The other problem with KDE is the system notification are too fleeting. I get a quick popup and it disappears immediately.

Contrast this with GNOME where system notifications require you to click on each one to remove them and I have not found an elegant solution to this problem yet with any desktop environment. I want notifications to pop up and disappear automatically after a few seconds. Ubuntu Unity does this, but I don't like the user interface because it reminds me of Apple Macintosh OS X. I don't like Apple, Inc. Their products and services are way too overpriced and expensive. There's too much vendor lock in with Microsoft and Apple for my tastes now that I tasted Ubuntu and real freedom.

[kio_http]

I think you are missing the point of kwallet, it is just for using a master password to encrypt and save your credentials just like gnome-keyring. E.g Browser passwords, Wireless security, IM accounts etc. You should not have to configure and play with kwallet, it just works. The first time you set a wallet password and when prompted allow applications to access kwallet.

[KiwiNZ]

I just cannot like KDE, for me it is messy, somewhat illogical, not quick and has an identity crisis.

I have tried it many times and always end up reverting to Gnome and of late Unity.

[lucazade]

Kde is simply the state of the art of desktop environments, including proprietary OS.
nothing else to add..

[BigSilly]

Kde is simply the state of the art of desktop environments, including proprietary OS.
nothing else to add..

I completely agree. I would use it but for the crash error reports all the time. Really puts you off a DE.

[lucazade]

Probably I'm really lucky cos I don't have any crashes on my machines.
Kde matured a lot in the latest releases :)

[WinterMadness]

kde never crashes for me

kwallet is awesome too.

whats illogical about kde? i actually find it to be the only one that seems to make sense. searching for apps, having a favorites list, tons of customization thats point and click, and tbh, most of the "K" applications are the best on linux, k3b being a good example

[forrestcupp]

whats illogical about kde? i actually find it to be the only one that seems to make sense. searching for apps, having a favorites list, tons of customization thats point and click, and tbh, most of the "K" applications are the best on linux, k3b being a good example
+1 on apps like k3b. Kdenlive is another good example. Other than Cinelerra, Kdenlive has the best advanced feature set out of any of the video editors for Linux.

[kio_http]

I just cannot like KDE, for me it is messy, somewhat illogical, not quick and has an identity crisis.

I have tried it many times and always end up reverting to Gnome and of late Unity.

Did you try 4.9.0 or 4.9.1? I use really low end hardware as my primary workstation and both Unity with compiz cannot outperform kwin and plasma on my single core 1.6 Ghz 2GB Ram system especially when it comes to desktop composition.

Besides the default Ubuntu colours below the tilebar is not eye pleasing in any way, it makes the screen backlight appear really bright especially when using a laptop in low light conditions.

[KiwiNZ]

Did you try 4.9.0 or 4.9.1? I use really low end hardware as my primary workstation and both Unity with compiz cannot outperform kwin and plasma on my single core 1.6 Ghz 2GB Ram system especially when it comes to desktop composition.

Besides the default Ubuntu colours below the tilebar is not eye pleasing in any way, it makes the screen backlight appear really bright especially when using a laptop in low light conditions.

I have tried a lot of KDE versions over the years, the biggest improvement over the last few years has been the putting away the Crayola's. The last being the latest on a quad core machine with 8GB Ram, the performance was mixed.

[lucazade]

Crayola? Do you prefer the mouse-grey osx look or the wow-aero-look of windows?

I use kubuntu and kde on an Atom netbook (1gb ram and a GMA500 graphic card w/o hw accel!) and on other machines like i7 workstations. It outperforms everywhere.

probably Kde should be judged only after using it for more than 5 minutes..

[KiwiNZ]

Crayola? Do you prefer the mouse-grey osx look or the wow-aero-look of windows?

I use kubuntu and kde on an Atom netbook (1gb ram and a GMA500 graphic card w/o hw accel!) and on other machines like i7 workstations. It outperforms everywhere.

probably Kde should be judged only after using it for more than 5 minutes..

Know that last shower? I wasn't on it. I tested KDE in a professional and extended trials in my test environment as I do with many OS versions.

[lucazade]

Know that last shower? I wasn't on it. I tested KDE in a professional and extended trials in my test environment as I do with many OS versions.

Lol... in fact tests and trials are not enough.. it should be used as primary Os for a long period to appreciate it.

[KiwiNZ]

I have managed user acceptance trials etc for many years, I am aware of what is required to ascertain the status and appropriateness of software,hardware and OS's.

One does not need to use an OS for a long period of time to determine that.

[bra|10n]

I have managed user acceptance trials etc for many years, I am aware of what is required to ascertain the status and appropriateness of software,hardware and OS's.

One does not need to use an OS for a long period of time to determine that.

I can only add that not all KDE's are created equal.

[PaulW2U]

I use kubuntu and kde on an Atom netbook (1gb ram and a GMA500 graphic card w/o hw accel!) and on other machines like i7 workstations. It outperforms everywhere.

I never managed to get Kubuntu to run on my Samsung N130 with 2GB of RAM. I'm not too worried as it gave me the chance to try out Lubuntu.



probably Kde should be judged only after using it for more than 5 minutes..

And in that first five minutes of every new installation I change the desktop wallpaper and the window decoration as I've never liked the default look. Once I worked out what I didn't like about KDE and what I needed to do about it the switch from Gnome based Ubuntu on my main desktop PC was permanent.

In general I find the KDE/Kubuntu applications are superior to their Gnome based equivalents.

[kio_http]

I completely agree. I would use it but for the crash error reports all the time. Really puts you off a DE.

Did you report any of those crashes? If you are really interested in software produced by an open source enthusiast community like KDE, you should.

[BigSilly]

Did you report any of those crashes? If you are really interested in software produced by an open source enthusiast community like KDE, you should.

OK, well I don't need a telling off. I know how the deal works thanks. I've reported many bugs for Ubuntu etc.

I tried KDE for a short while as an alternative to Unity etc. I liked it a lot, it's probably the most advanced Linux DE there is. I found it rather prone to delivering crash reports, although there didn't seem to be any particular problem, and after a while moved back to what works for me. And I'm not apologising for that.

[kio_http]

I have tried a lot of KDE versions over the years, the biggest improvement over the last few years has been the putting away the Crayola's. The last being the latest on a quad core machine with 8GB Ram, the performance was mixed.

What exactly was slow? The first time you start applications in KDE and even plasma-desktop itself, it spends time creating the configuration files in the home folder and this does make first launches slow. KDE is in general slower to start up (but not unbearable). Once it starts it should be very fast at launching QT applications.

If you haven't tried 4.9.1, you can't really judge KDE as there were some major changes to kwin and qt rendering was switched to a completely different method called raster. Kwin in 4.9.1 and more so in the upcomming 4.9.2 is phenomenally fast compared to compiz while using desktop composition assuming you have the right drivers etc. The engine in Dolphin 2.0 was completely rewritten because of performance issues in the old version.

I use KDE on really really under powered systems (see link in my signature) and Ubuntu with unity cannot even come close to that. It is impossible to scroll properly in Unity in 12.04 on these low powered intel Atom systems.

Also how do these two compare?

Crayola
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ynEuiUAKxbU/TltW4nKqLxI/AAAAAAAADm8/P1cIaag7je8/s1600/Crayola1.JPG

KDE
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2012/09/30/03/58/8707651_bigthumb.jpeg (http://www.picamatic.com/view/8707651_snapshot15/)

Also the primary goal of KDE is to create an environment that can be configured easily to look like anything, so complaining about looks is not valid. There is no way that KDE can work so well on my Intel Atom system and be unusable and slow on a monster of an i7 system.

Have you checked which process is consuming resources when KDE is slow? For me sometimes when "apt-xapian-index" runs in the background the system is sluggish.

Next time you try KDE, please post a compilation of all troubles you have had and performance issues, crashes etc. If you are interested in trying KDE you may like the link in my signature. But then again if Gnome works for you, better stick with that. Sometimes we subconsciously don't want change and find faults that don't exist. It happens to many people who switch from Windows to Linux too. In fact when one of my friends felt that something was slower in Ubuntu than Windows, I was able to prove him wrong with a stopwatch; in fact Ubuntu was faster.

[kio_http]

OK, well I don't need a telling off. I know how the deal works thanks. I've reported many bugs for Ubuntu etc.

I tried KDE for a short while as an alternative to Unity etc. I liked it a lot, it's probably the most advanced Linux DE there is. I found it rather prone to delivering crash reports, although there didn't seem to be any particular problem, and after a while moved back to what works for me. And I'm not apologising for that.

When did you try it? Recent releases are a lot more stable than older ones. Did you ask for help regarding the "crashes" that you had. Maybe it might have been one minor thing or even unrelated to KDE. Did you leave KDE specifically because of a fault KDE had or did you prefer Unity.

Without actually being specific as to what went wrong, your feedback isn't really helpful. I don't think that its a fair test if you have a problem while testing KDE's out of the box unconfigured experience and don't do any troubleshooting.

[PaulW2U]

I tried KDE for a short while as an alternative to Unity etc. I liked it a lot, it's probably the most advanced Linux DE there is. I found it rather prone to delivering crash reports, although there didn't seem to be any particular problem, and after a while moved back to what works for me. And I'm not apologising for that.

BigSilly, have you tried Kubuntu 12.04?

I seem to remember that all of my regular KDE crashes were fixed during the final weeks of 12.04's development period. I've not noticed any regular crashes since then or indeed while using the development version of 12.10.

[BigSilly]

When did you try it? Recent releases are a lot more stable than older ones. Did you ask for help regarding the "crashes" that you had. Maybe it might have been one minor thing or even unrelated to KDE. Did you leave KDE specifically because of a fault KDE had or did you prefer Unity.

Without actually being specific as to what went wrong, your feedback isn't really helpful. I don't think that its a fair test if you have a problem while testing KDE's out of the box unconfigured experience and don't do any troubleshooting.

I wasn't intending to give useful feedback. Merely relating my experience. You're making me sound like a KDE hater or something. I loved it. It was awesome! It was just a couple of minor things that ought not be happening (iirc it was Kwallet and Nepomuk reporting errors, but it was a while ago now), so I went back to something that I know works without any errors, and also was something that I'd like to see flourish personally (Cinnamon). But there was no doubt in my mind that KDE was the most advanced Linux desktop there is. It was super-quick on my PC (below), and super-quick on lower specs too.

As it happens I remember deleting my KDE profile folder to see if that halted the errors and it did, but by then I was already intending to move away anyway. I was Kubuntu 12.04 64 bit fyi, with KDE 4.8.4.

I'll always have an eye on KDE as it was the first Linux DE I ever used.

[kio_http]

I wasn't intending to give useful feedback. Merely relating my experience. You're making me sound like a KDE hater or something. I loved it. It was awesome! It was just a couple of minor things that ought not be happening (iirc it was Kwallet and Nepomuk reporting errors, but it was a while ago now), so I went back to something that I know works without any errors, and also was something that I'd like to see flourish personally (Cinnamon). But there was no doubt in my mind that KDE was the most advanced Linux desktop there is. It was super-quick on my PC (below), and super-quick on lower specs too.

As it happens I remember deleting my KDE profile folder to see if that halted the errors and it did, but by then I was already intending to move away anyway. I was Kubuntu 12.04 64 bit fyi, with KDE 4.8.4.

I'll always have an eye on KDE as it was the first Linux DE I ever used.

Never said you were a KDE hater nor do I believe that but Kwallet and nepomuk reporting errors (not segfault) clearly indicates that it was wrongly configured. Maybe the errors should be more explicit about what has been incorrectly configured though.

Anyways, use what works for you.

[neu5eeCh]

There is no way that KDE can work so well on my Intel Atom system and be unusable and slow on a monster of an i7 system.

That's not true. I've never been able to run KDE on my ATI Radeon VAIO. Googling reveals a history of incompatibility between KDE and Radeon cards. The incompatibility made KDE unusable and slow on an otherwise fast machine. I also have had problems installing KDE on my HP laptop with vanilla Intel board and graphics. KDE is slow and invariably switches off any kind of compositing. Every other DE runs flawlessly on my HP. I have never been able to run KDE on any of my systems. I haven't used the latest rendition, but up until this latest rendition, KDE has always been buggy and slow. Them's the facts.

If you happen to have a system it works on, then go buy a lottery ticket.

[kio_http]

That's not true. I've never been able to run KDE on my ATI Radeon VAIO. Googling reveals a history of incompatibility between KDE and Radeon cards. The incompatibility made KDE unusable and slow on an otherwise fast machine. I also have had problems installing KDE on my HP laptop with vanilla Intel board and graphics. KDE is slow and invariably switches off any kind of compositing. Every other DE runs flawlessly on my HP. I have never been able to run KDE on any of my systems. I haven't used the latest rendition, but up until this latest rendition, KDE has always been buggy and slow. Them's the facts.

If you happen to have a system it works on, then go buy a lottery ticket.

ATI cards have poor drivers in Linux (especially not so recent ones) , so its not really KDE's fault. On the other hand I have used KDE with proprietary Nvidia drivers and a Intel Graphics Cards. It flies on any Intel card GMA 950 and higher. I get 60fps with kwin on a netbook.

I believe KDE does work better with the more recent AMD radeon HD cards though. Personally on Linux Intel GPU's seem more reasonable especially on notebooks.

In the case of Intel performance is usually excellant on any modern card. Although everytime Intel releases a new GPU, there are normally performance issues on Linux which get sorted a few months after the card is released.

What Intel card did you have problems with. Also KDE desktop effects can be turned off in graphics drivers are problematic. You can also install "kubuntu-low-fat-settings", see the link in my signature for information on KDE performance.

[lucazade]

I am able to run kde on a lot of gfx cards without any glitches or slowdown:
Intel gma500 and 3000, nvidia 250gts and 550, ati 7500 mobility and hd3200
It scales really well!

[kio_http]

I am able to run kde on a lot of gfx cards without any glitches or slowdown:
Intel gma500 and 3000, nvidia 250gts and 550, ati 7500 mobility and hd3200
It scales really well!

Gma 500! do desktop effects work on that?

[oldos2er]

iirc it was Kwallet and Nepomuk reporting errors,

Personally I turn off nepomuk and akonadi too, I don't use system search or the Kontact/PIM apps.

KDE 4.9x is an awesome desktop, you should give it a try.

[lucazade]

Gma 500! do desktop effects work on that?

yep.. using xrender (opengl is not implemented in opensource drivers) and even with composite on it is really fast :D

[KiwiNZ]

What exactly was slow? The first time you start applications in KDE and even plasma-desktop itself, it spends time creating the configuration files in the home folder and this does make first launches slow. KDE is in general slower to start up (but not unbearable). Once it starts it should be very fast at launching QT applications.

If you haven't tried 4.9.1, you can't really judge KDE as there were some major changes to kwin and qt rendering was switched to a completely different method called raster. Kwin in 4.9.1 and more so in the upcomming 4.9.2 is phenomenally fast compared to compiz while using desktop composition assuming you have the right drivers etc. The engine in Dolphin 2.0 was completely rewritten because of performance issues in the old version.

I use KDE on really really under powered systems (see link in my signature) and Ubuntu with unity cannot even come close to that. It is impossible to scroll properly in Unity in 12.04 on these low powered intel Atom systems.

Also how do these two compare?

Crayola
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ynEuiUAKxbU/TltW4nKqLxI/AAAAAAAADm8/P1cIaag7je8/s1600/Crayola1.JPG

KDE
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2012/09/30/03/58/8707651_bigthumb.jpeg (http://www.picamatic.com/view/8707651_snapshot15/)

Also the primary goal of KDE is to create an environment that can be configured easily to look like anything, so complaining about looks is not valid. There is no way that KDE can work so well on my Intel Atom system and be unusable and slow on a monster of an i7 system.

Have you checked which process is consuming resources when KDE is slow? For me sometimes when "apt-xapian-index" runs in the background the system is sluggish.

Next time you try KDE, please post a compilation of all troubles you have had and performance issues, crashes etc. If you are interested in trying KDE you may like the link in my signature. But then again if Gnome works for you, better stick with that. Sometimes we subconsciously don't want change and find faults that don't exist. It happens to many people who switch from Windows to Linux too. In fact when one of my friends felt that something was slower in Ubuntu than Windows, I was able to prove him wrong with a stopwatch; in fact Ubuntu was faster.

Ever heard the saying "don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs"? If not here is a reference http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/118200.html

Just because I dislike a DE does not mean I do not know how to test one. Also re read my post you will see I stated I had tested the latest.

Sir, some advice learn to rephrase your posts.

[kio_http]

Ever heard the saying "don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs"? If not here is a reference http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/118200.html

Just because I dislike a DE does not mean I do not know how to test one. Also re read my post you will see I stated I had tested the latest.

Sir, some advice learn to rephrase your posts.

I never questioned your DE testing abilities. Its just that I prefer specific information about what went wrong e.g What exactly was slow etc.

I don't own an i7 system and the best I've ever used is a core 2 duo. I fail to understand how any existing DE or GUI shell could be slow on such a system given its theoretical capabilities. Others here have been able to run KDE on not so stellar hardware.

I'm especially interested in performance related issues and tracking down what causes them. What I am looking for is stuff like names of processes that consume too much resources etc Was KDE really running so slow on an i7 system such that it would slow down getting things done compared to Unity?

Also to be honest I did not quite get what you meant by "the latest", and assumed you tried the latest that existed at the time.

I mentioned the stuff about config files etc not because I thought you did not know about that but because it is especially noticeable on KDE. The biggest problem I've had is if I have a lot of content in the home folder and just install it, the indexing features consume a lot of resources.

I would obviously understand that KDE is not for those who want an out of the box system as its designed for those who like to configure and change things easily unlike Mac OS X.

Honestly though I wouldn't agree with calling KDE's interface "crayola", I agree it may not be to your liking but "crayola" is an unreasonable and derogatory way to describe it.

Obviously a low amount of users has taken its toll on KDE, it is a project with tonnes of potential but developers are few and so are users as compared gnome, the lack of feedback is a problem. Gnome have taken steps to reduce the codebase as much as possible but KDE has a lot more to maintain.

[KiwiNZ]

KDE is targeted at the 'mass' market, reference Mandriva and its off shoots, Open Suse, Kubuntu. Therefore it must be able to run very well out of the box as should any RTM version. My testing results have been very mixed and IMHO it falls very short of meeting the requirements of their primary target sector.

[kio_http]

KDE is targeted at the 'mass' market, reference Mandriva and its off shoots, Open Suse, Kubuntu. Therefore it must be able to run very well out of the box as should any RTM version. My testing results have been very mixed and IMHO it films very short of meeting the requirements of their primary target sector.

It does run well out of the box assuming first launches have been done (applies to gnome as well). Although I'd admit many distros do a very bad job at choosing defaults.

By the way what graphics cards have you used in your tests and is there any one in particular that had more performance issues. If you have varied hardware configurations does it have problems like randomly working well on some hardware and badly on the other?

Anyways if you ever do some tests on Kubuntu 12.10 when it comes out I'd be interested in knowing the feedback. I take it you wouldn't remember specific details as you seem to have had multiple issues.

On low end systems though it definitely is more snappy than Unity. E,g If I click on the Ubuntu button it takes a while for the dash to appear and there is typing lag while using the search not to mention unbearable scrolling. I haven't tried 12.10 though.

[neu5eeCh]

What Intel card did you have problems with.

Here's the full monty:


00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/PM/GMS, 943/940GML and 945GT Express Memory Controller Hub (rev 03)
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS/GME, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation N10/ICH 7 Family High Definition Audio Controller (rev 02)
00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation N10/ICH 7 Family PCI Express Port 1 (rev 02)
00:1c.1 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation N10/ICH 7 Family PCI Express Port 2 (rev 02)
00:1d.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation N10/ICH 7 Family USB UHCI Controller #1 (rev 02)
00:1d.1 USB controller: Intel Corporation N10/ICH 7 Family USB UHCI Controller #2 (rev 02)
00:1d.2 USB controller: Intel Corporation N10/ICH 7 Family USB UHCI Controller #3 (rev 02)
00:1d.3 USB controller: Intel Corporation N10/ICH 7 Family USB UHCI Controller #4 (rev 02)
00:1d.7 USB controller: Intel Corporation N10/ICH 7 Family USB2 EHCI Controller (rev 02)
00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 Mobile PCI Bridge (rev e2)
00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82801GBM (ICH7-M) LPC Interface Bridge (rev 02)
00:1f.2 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801GBM/GHM (ICH7-M Family) SATA Controller [IDE mode] (rev 02)
00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation N10/ICH 7 Family SMBus Controller (rev 02)
02:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 3945ABG [Golan] Network Connection (rev 02)
05:08.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation PRO/100 VE Network Connection (rev 02)
05:09.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Ricoh Co Ltd R5C832 IEEE 1394 Controller
05:09.1 SD Host controller: Ricoh Co Ltd R5C822 SD/SDIO/MMC/MS/MSPro Host Adapter (rev 19)
05:09.2 System peripheral: Ricoh Co Ltd R5C592 Memory Stick Bus Host Adapter (rev 0a)
05:09.3 System peripheral: Ricoh Co Ltd xD-Picture Card Controller (rev 05)


Also KDE desktop effects can be turned off in graphics drivers are problematic.

Yes, but then I don't see much point in using KDE. I can get a better looking DE using XFCE, Gnome or Unity. KDE's applications, with the exception of Dolphin, are nothing to write home about.


You can also install "kubuntu-low-fat-settings", see the link in my signature for information on KDE performance.

Yes, and the very fact that this capability exists argues that KDE's functionality on older hardware is iffy.

All that being said, I have seen some beautiful, minimalist KDE desktops with compositing enabled, so I'm not dead set against KDE, it's just never worked on either of my systems.

[KiwiNZ]

It does run well out of the box assuming first launches have been done (applies to gnome as well). Although I'd admit many distros do a very bad job at choosing defaults.

By the way what graphics cards have you used in your tests and is there any one in particular that had more performance issues. If you have varied hardware configurations does it have problems like randomly working well on some hardware and badly on the other?

Anyways if you ever do some tests on Kubuntu 12.10 when it comes out I'd be interested in knowing the feedback. I take it you wouldn't remember specific details as you seem to have had multiple issues.

On low end systems though it definitely is more snappy than Unity. E,g If I click on the Ubuntu button it takes a while for the dash to appear and there is typing lag while using the search not to mention unbearable scrolling. I haven't tried 12.10 though.

I have used ATI, Nvidia and Intel GPU's. I will be testing the Kubuntu 12.10 release however that will not be for some time as I am currently involved with managing an extensive Corporate review and restructuring.

[Welly Wu]

I decided to stop using Cinnamon 1.6.1 for a while now. It's much too buggy. I keep getting random bugs that interrupt my digital work flow. The Cinnamon applets don't always work properly and there are various other bugs that need to be fixed.

I decided to switch back to KDE. I am still getting used to it and the KWallet feature, but it is not nearly as buggy and it is pretty stable and reliable. KDE is also prettier than Cinnamon. I like KDE don't get me wrong. I think it is a highly useful desktop environment.

Three cheers for KDE for now.

[BigSilly]

Pity about Cinnamon for you Welly, but KDE is awesome too. I've been lucky and Cinnamon has been completely trouble-free for me. No issues at all, so I am more than happy to call it home now and settle in. Maybe you could give it a shot again in a few months time?

So are you using Kubuntu or another KDE distro? I absolutely loved Kubuntu 12.04, and 12.10 looks even better. I'll definitely be giving it a go, but I won't be permanently replacing Cinnamon with it.

[Welly Wu]

I am using Kubuntu-desktop, but I installed kde-full.

KDE is a lot more stable than Cinnamon as there are hardly any bugs that I have noticed.

wellywu@System76:~$ kde4-config -v
Qt: 4.8.2
KDE Development Platform: 4.9.2
kde4-config: 1.0
wellywu@System76:~$

[Welly Wu]

I switched to OpenSuSE 64 bit Tumbleweed one week ago and I love it! I installed K Desktop Environment software repository and I am using version 4.9.2. I finally figured out how to configure K Wallet so that it only prompts me for my two passwords once per session. Now, it works the way that I want it to work. I am deeply impressed with K Desktop Environment. It's features rich, highly configurable, extensible, and stable along with very mature and polished.

It gets the job done quite nicely.

I am super productive using OpenSuSE 64 bit Tumbleweed compared to Ubuntu and K Desktop Environment helps me to manage my digital work flow efficiently now that I have acclimated to it more. I love the traditional desktop look and feel with all of the whiz bang features and glitz piled on top. It's highly responsive and quite fast.

I will stick with K Desktop Environment in the long term future. It has real potential to get better over time.

[Welly Wu]

I successfully installed, setup, and configured my SAMBA Server and client along with the SuSEfirewall2 to enable file sharing on my Verizon FiOS fiber optic 802.11 G Wi-Fi and Ethernet private home network. I learned how to use Dolphin to permit finely granulated folder and file sharing permissions for my family members and everything works right out of the box. I also learned how to synchronize Evolution with my Google Calendar account and I added my GnuPG key ID and my StartSSL certificate so that I can encrypt, sign, and decrypt e-mail messages. Everything works perfectly now.

I installed CrashPlan+ unlimited home data backup service and I pay $5.00 USD monthly. I also installed and patched VM Ware Workstation 9.0.0 64 bit and it works too. I also installed Deja-Dup to make a second backup of my home folder as an extra layer of data backup and redundancy.

OpenSuSE 64 bit Tumbleweed and K Desktop Environment work perfectly now.