Computers and Paranoia/Fear?

[mr john]

I read alot of threads on this site and also on slashdot and alot of time I see people talking about companies being evil, skynet and things like that. Sometimes I wonder if this is people being paranoid, and if so what is the reason for this? Is it just that there are alot of paranoid people in the world? Is that sitting behind a computer for too long makes you have a paranoid view of the world? Is it that if your naturally paranoid then you are going to sit behind the computer alot to get away from dealing with people in the real world? Or are people right to be worrying about company X becoming skynet, or the robots taking over? I guess I want to know why some people are so afraid of some IT companies like Facebook, Google, Apple etc.

[pompel9]

I think many are afraid of companies because some companies are bad (not evil). A great example is microsoft. This company has now implemented spyware in windows, so they can monitor what you install (and maybe even have full access to all your files on your PC). They even get your IP adress. And they have implemented kill switch, wich means they can kill your OS. So I will ask you, is this a good behavior from a company? Am I paranoid when I point this out?

[KiwiNZ]

There is a lot of F.U.D broadcast on many Forums be it about Linux, Windows, OSX, Android or whatever. The vast majority of it can be completely ignore, some if it relates to ones own position can be looked at and considered. I personally ignore most of it, hard though when one is required to read thread after thread after thread.

[mr john]

This company has now implemented spyware in windows, so they can monitor what you install

But surely the app markets in Apple, Ubuntu and Google can also log what applications people install. Is it so that they can monitor you, or is it just so that they can know how many people have downloaded a certain app? Are things like this really bad, or are these companies simply doing it so that they can provide a better, more relevant service to their users? What is the real harm of a company knowing what you've installed?

[KiwiNZ]

But surely the app markets in Apple, Ubuntu and Google can also log what applications people install. Is it so that they can monitor you, or is it just so that they can know how many people have downloaded a certain app? Are things like this really bad, or are these companies simply doing it so that they can provide a better, more relevant service to their users? What is the real harm of a company knowing what you've installed?

I don't care what they want to look at, if the PC of an old Man in the back of beyond in New Zealand is vitally important to them then they can have it.

[pompel9]

But surely the app markets in Apple, Ubuntu and Google can also log what applications people install. Is it so that they can monitor you, or is it just so that they can know how many people have downloaded a certain app? Are things like this really bad, or are these companies simply doing it so that they can provide a better, more relevant service to their users? What is the real harm of a company knowing what you've installed?


I don't like to be monitored all the time. But if you like it, then that is your choice.
And no, this is not the same as what other companies have done. On windows 8, there is a process that works all the time, that monitors every move you do. And then send the information to microsoft.

This is not a matter of monitoring stats of how many downloaded an app. Which is ok, because they only count how many times an app has been downloaded. No other information is stored.

[vexorian]

But surely the app markets in Apple, Ubuntu and Google can also log what applications people install. Is it so that they can monitor you, or is it just so that they can know how many people have downloaded a certain app? Are things like this really bad, or are these companies simply doing it so that they can provide a better, more relevant service to their users? What is the real harm of a company knowing what you've installed?
Many OS apps log what you do so that they can offer you abetter service by giving you your most frequent options. That's zeitgest, for example.

But pompel9 is talking about a feature that besides of logging all the info calls home. Maybe you are fine with it, but saying it is just the same as what other OSis a false equivalency.

Your claims of people talking about skynet makes me doubt about the seriousness of the thread.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

I would like to see the confusing stuff they may collect from one of my operating systems. At one time it looks like I just did a fresh install, then it looks like I have installed a lot of applications, and suddenly it looks like a fresh install again. Restoring a Virtual Machine from a snapshot is wonderful.

:lolflag:

[pqwoerituytrueiwoq]

But surely the app markets in Apple, Ubuntu and Google can also log what applications people install. Is it so that they can monitor you, or is it just so that they can know how many people have downloaded a certain app? Are things like this really bad, or are these companies simply doing it so that they can provide a better, more relevant service to their users? What is the real harm of a company knowing what you've installed?
when you install something to crack (pirate) a program for example MS office (for the record i would not do that MS anything is a security risk IMO)
BTW that feature is in Ubuntu (it is opt in)
open software-properties-gtk

[Ubun2to]

But surely the app markets in Apple, Ubuntu and Google can also log what applications people install. Is it so that they can monitor you, or is it just so that they can know how many people have downloaded a certain app? Are things like this really bad, or are these companies simply doing it so that they can provide a better, more relevant service to their users? What is the real harm of a company knowing what you've installed?

On mobile devices, app stores are great, as many sites still don't have mobile sites, and if you have 3G or lower signal, it is slow to load pages. Plus, there are less likely to be reviews on apps to begin with, so it is harder to tell if they are crap apps that can ruin your phone. That is why app stores on mobile devices are so nice, as long as you can still install software from other sources.
On the desktop, there is no need other than to copy the mobile experience. Software with viruses and buggy software is more likely to have bad reviews on the desktop, so it is not as important. OS X is slowly becoming more resistant to installing apps from non Apple certified sources, and Windows is getting more and more controlling of their OS.

[pompel9]

when you install something to crack (pirate) a program for example MS office (for the record i would not do that MS anything is a security risk IMO)
BTW that feature is in Ubuntu (it is opt in)
open software-properties-gtk

That is a poor example, because that option is turned off by default. You have a choice. On windows 8 you can not turn of the gathering of data and call home process.

[lisati]

A lot of the (mis)information out there on the web can safely be ignored. The nature of the internet is such that anyone can set themselves up as an expert, with minimal assurance of the value of what they have to say.

To put it another way, if you talk to any sizable group, chances are you'll be able to get at least as many opinions as there are people.

[Porcini M.]

Personally, I fear that the economic importance of intellectual property (music, DVDs, etc) give great incentives for stakeholders to collaborate with software and service providers to monitor computing devices and their users.

Also, targeted marketing is a huge industry, so the personal information on our computers is valuable.

Finally, criminal organizations around the world have incentive to access the information on our devices & to coopt their operation for their own ends.

In a nutshell, there's lots of reasons for outside parties to want to gain access to our devices. Therefore I advocate good security practices.

[forrestcupp]

The solar panel on your calculator is actually a 3D camera that sends shots of your facial expressions into the government. The 'C' button on your calculator is actually a finger print sensor so they can keep track of you when you are cheating on your taxes.

[pompel9]

And there went a serious discussion out the window.

Oh well.

[cariboo]

The solar panel on your calculator is actually a 3D camera that sends shots of your facial expressions into the government. The 'C' button on your calculator is actually a finger print sensor so they can keep track of you when you are cheating on your taxes.


And there went a serious discussion out the window.

Oh well.

Actually we see enough of those types of comments in the Security Discussions (http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=338) sub-forum, that I think computers and paranoia do seem to go together.

The problem as I see it, is that the type of person that makes those kinds of comments, only learns enough to feed their fears, and nothing more, and nothing you can say will change their minds.

[mr john]

turning off a feature at the client side doesn't prevent data collection at the server side. Most webservers have log systems that collect ip addresses, browser details etc. These "app stores" including the Ubuntu store are little more than customised web servers. If it's online it can be tracked./

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

turning off a feature at the client side doesn't prevent data collection at the server side. Most webservers have log systems that collect ip addresses, browser details etc. ...

There are scripts you can include on your personal website that collect ip address, browser version, default language, window size, screen resolution, colour depth, java version, etc. Mine does :).

Even with javascript disabled on the client side I still get the ip address.

[Paqman]

Is it just that there are alot of paranoid people in the world?

Yup.

Frequenting Linux sites probably won't do your perception of the general level of paranoia much good, either. Paranoid folks are more likely to use Linux in the first place, so are disproportionately represented within the penguin-loving community.

[Porcini M.]

Isn't Linux guilty of enabling this mindset? What with all the talk of providing firewalls, anonymous web browsing, encryption, etc? :D