*Attention* Creepy Gmail

[dresnu]

Gmail users should definetelly read this: http://www.gmail-is-too-creepy.com/

[H.E. Pennypacker]

I can't believe how sad some people are, wasting their time trying to get people to not use Google. It's unebelievable, that as soon as a company grows big, people start throwing tomatoes at it.

I strongly believe Google-hate is largely derived from its size. I can't remember anyone complaining several years ago when it was still fairly small. The same is true for many other companies.

As for the claims, they are absolutely moronic.

[lapsey]

Gmail users should definetelly read this: http://www.gmail-is-too-creepy.com/

Not only that but it's not even a very good email service. Sure, it has a neat AJAX interface but try getting an urgent email within 12 hours of it being sent, if at all.

I'm quite interested in this http://www.scroogle.org/ thing, too

[bluenova]

Yea people are always going on about if you care about your privacy don't use google, but they don't hold any more information about you than any other company offering web-based services, they just use the information in a very clever way.

[bluenova]

Not only that but it's not even a very good email service. Sure, it has a neat AJAX interface but try getting an urgent email within 12 hours of it being sent, if at all.

I'm quite interested in this http://www.scroogle.org/ thing, too
Strange, I always get my email streight away, well at least the longest I've waited is about 5 min which is acceptable for me.

[Simian]

it does sound like a good X-files eppisode

[lapsey]

I can't believe how sad some people are, wasting their time trying to get people to not use Google. It's unebelievable, that as soon as a company grows big, people start throwing tomatoes at it.

I strongly believe Google-hate is largely derived from its size. I can't remember anyone complaining several years ago when it was still fairly small. The same is true for many other companies.

i'm sure that's true for some people but that's not to say that many of the criticism is invalid.

Put simply, Google is now a publically traded online advertising broker that is only beholden to the shareholder. Combine that fact with the massive data aggregation that is provided for in both their user agreements and their technology.
Google included these provisions by design, not circumstance.

Always read the fine print


We were evil: Google founder

Google Inc. co-founder Sergey Brin acknowledged the dominant internet company has compromised its principles by accommodating Chinese censorship demands. He said Google is wrestling to make the deal work before deciding whether to reverse course.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/web/we-were-evil-google-founder-admits/2006/06/07/1149359785303.html

[tmahmood]

I like Gmail. Its better then any other free mail services I've used. some people just thinks by criticizing something people uses most makes them different, unique. They don't even know they actually make themselves hilarious to other peoples.

what are they going to do with our data? Blackmail us? Give them to someone? They have a lot of things to do. What ever email service you are using saving your personal information. so why do you trust them!?? If you are so concern about your name and age then don't use Email don't even use Ubuntuforums cause they also have some of your personal info. Hey don't even use Internet cause your are opening your IP to someone.

[OneSeventeen]

Considering the whole purpose of Google is to make information more available, I don't know why anyone is shocked that google does what they do.

I use hosted google mail, regular gmail, peronalized google, adsense, and all that stuff. I am slowly getting to the point that I think I house too much of my info on Google, but then again, I don't really care.

If I were worried about privacy issues I would first set up some sort of penalty for any credit card company that sent an application in the mail... in the mail! where anyone can just walk by, snatch it, and get a credit card under my name! (being done on a daily basis here in America, so it's not just paranoia)

At least Google has decent security practices in tact that haven't made me feel threatned at all. And none of their decisions (even "content filtering" in china) has yet to make me feel otherwise.

Here's hoping that people base their decisions on fact, not assumption that any company that gets big is evil. Heck, even Microsoft isn't evil.

[hizaguchi]

Did anybody really think the information in their email was a secret? Not just from Google, but from just about anybody that wants it? You mean you never wondered why you get emails from people with names that almost match your friends' but that want to increase your ***** size? I would think that, at this point, if the NSA wanted to read your email they could just dig it out of their database instead of wasting their time talking to Google.

Email is about as secure as a postcard. If you're saying anything in email that you don't want people to read, you should think about encryption.

[curuxz]

Email is about as secure as a postcard. If you're saying anything in email that you don't want people to read, you should think about encryption.


I agree totaly, I think we should document encription much better in Ubuntu, if anyone has some good how'to's it would be great. I personaly wana know a way of making all communications secure without asking the other person to install loads of stuff, or even if they do have to install things then please make it cross platform since I do business with a lot of Windows and Mac users.

[hizaguchi]

^ Enigmail is a plugin for Thunderbird that uses PGP encryption. Doesn't eliminate the flaming hoops problem, but it is cross-platform.

[prizrak]

Thunderbird + GPG extension + POP3 access and stop worrying about anyone reading your e-mail. If you think that any other e-mail service, including the e-mail you get from the ISP, isn't capable of doing what Google can do you need to stop smoking the ganja.

[GuitarHero]

Am i the only one who doesnt care if google reads my mail? OH NO google will know that im being sent ***** enlargement ads and diet pill ads! *gasp*

[lapsey]

Am i the only one who doesnt care if google reads my mail? OH NO google will know that im being sent ***** enlargement ads and diet pill ads! *gasp*

I can't wait till that philosophy is applied wholesale and we find it a legal requirement to have all our communications monitored for the warning signs du jour. I can't think for the life of me why people are getting in a fuss about this AT&T-FBI monitoring! If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear!

The fact that anyone can steal a mailbag and read my junk mail and letters from auntie mildred doesn't mean that doing so should be legal. Don't you have any idea how important the principle of privacy is?

They must have been smoking some crazy **** when they wrote article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights LMAO


What the hell, let me just put my house keys on ebay and I'm done.

[prizrak]

I can't wait till that philosophy is applied wholesale and we find it a legal requirement to have all our communications monitored for the warning signs du jour. I can't think for the life of me why people are getting in a fuss about this AT&T-FBI monitoring! If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear!

The fact that anyone can steal a mailbag and read my junk mail and letters from auntie mildred doesn't mean that doing so should be legal. Don't you have any idea how important the principle of privacy is?

They must have been smoking some crazy **** when they wrote article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights LMAO


What the hell, let me just put my house keys on ebay and I'm done.
Google is a private company not a government, they can set any policy regarding their handling of information that resides on their PRIVATE servers. Government agencies have always been allowed to appear before a magistrate and request a search warrant (whether it's for electronic stuff or physical) and there was never a problem with that. If anything you should be outraged over the PATRIOT Act that allows the government to obtain such information with very limited proof.

Generally speaking anything on the internet is public domain, unless you own every single piece of cabling and equipment that your communication goes through it can be interecepted. So if you don't want people to read your e-mail encrypt it, same way you don't leave your car unlocked if you don't want people to steal **** from it.

[kassetra]

I can't wait till that philosophy is applied wholesale and we find it a legal requirement to have all our communications monitored for the warning signs du jour.

Well.... ever worked for an ISP?

Most of the mail stored at just about every ISP I can think of is stored for years; archived, yes, but all stored.

There are actually requirements for how long ISPs must store data, including emails, variable by country.

Google just makes it public knowledge. ;)

[lapsey]

Google is a private company not a government, they can set any policy regarding their handling of information that resides on their PRIVATE servers. Government agencies have always been allowed to appear before a magistrate and request a search warrant (whether it's for electronic stuff or physical) and there was never a problem with that. If anything you should be outraged over the PATRIOT Act that allows the government to obtain such information with very limited proof.

Generally speaking anything on the internet is public domain

Thats a pretty bold thing to preface your argument with. Also incorrect from a legal standpoint, unless you'd like to point me in the direction of one of those 'public domain' Half-life 2 ISOs :-)

From a practical standpoint, I agree - to avoid disappointment people should ACT as if everything on the net is public domain (unless they take steps otherwise).
But just because laws are not applied 100% of the time that they, or the principles embodied in those laws should cease to apply.


I'm not outraged over the patriot act because it's not my government. At any time I can ask any company in the uk for details of all the data they have stored on me, and for that data to be destroyed.

Personally I'm not too concerned about Google because their current privacy policy is ok. It scans emails for buzzwords (it doesnt disclose wether these are strictly for the purposes of security or commerce) and targets advertisment accordingly; all of which is permitted by the user as part of the user agreement.
I was far more concerned at the lack of principle in the statement I quoted.

[prizrak]

Thats a pretty bold thing to preface your argument with. Also incorrect from a legal standpoint, unless you'd like to point me in the direction of one of those 'public domain' Half-life 2 ISOs :-)

From a practical standpoint, I agree - to avoid disappointment people should ACT as if everything on the net is public domain (unless they take steps otherwise).
But just because laws are not applied 100% of the time that they, or the principles embodied in those laws should cease to apply.


I'm not outraged over the patriot act because it's not my government. At any time I can ask any company in the uk for details of all the data they have stored on me, and for that data to be destroyed.

Personally I'm not too concerned about Google because their current privacy policy is ok. It scans emails for buzzwords (it doesnt disclose wether these are strictly for the purposes of security or commerce) and targets advertisment accordingly; all of which is permitted by the user as part of the user agreement.
I was far more concerned at the lack of principle in the statement I quoted.
I will agree with you there, too many people think "If you got nothing to hide what do you care". When I say public domain pertaining to the internet I mean more along the lines of walking down the street anyone else there will be able to see you.

[tsb]

Gmail is awesome. Looks like the MS haters will be going after Google now. :(

[prizrak]

Gmail is awesome. Looks like the MS haters will be going after Google now. :(
Comes with being the leader, its normal. Once a company reaches a certain size it can make a difference in people's lives everyone takes very close look at their practices.

[RAV TUX]

I am neither for or against gmail or google but am amazed at their cult-like following. In a consumer driven society few companies have reached the corporate "cult" status, ie: Apple, Starbucks, Google, etc. This is pure marketing genius.

[oyvindaa]

Google and their Gmail is great. I've never had any sorts of problems with it.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the critics. Critics are everywhere and will criticise anything because they haven't got anything better to do. That's the way I feel about it anyway.

Keep up the good work Google.

[Mechanical]

So if these people get email from a gmail account they won't open it? What if your dear mom send you a line and its from gmail? Do you call her and explain, coming off as a paranoid ***? I really like gmail and find most of the google haters kinda silly.

[Deaf_Head]

There is a good arguement to be had about user convenience and service VERSUS privacy.

It isn't gonna be had over a crappy conspiracy webpage, sorry. lol

[mozetti]

There is a good arguement to be had about user convenience and service VERSUS privacy.

That is the crux of it. As someone else mentioned, Google has come up with some brilliant ways of using data. The trade-off for using the products built on the concept of aggregate data mining is that, well, the data has to be made available. Aggregate is the key. Now, as was revealed around Gmail's launch, it's hardware/software doing the "snooping" of your emails/searches and not people. And the fuel for the technology is the data.

I'm not using the argument of, "If you don't have anything to hide, why do you care?" because that's just asinine. But, similarly, if you're doing something that you don't want others to know about, then why are you doing it through Gmail/Hotmail/etc?

[lapsey]

nothing wrong with a positive derail.

great points mozetti, but I have never understood

it's hardware/software doing the "snooping" of your emails/searches and not people.
how that really makes a difference. I mean, I could 'totally automate' my Kill-o-bot death machine 2000 to murder everyone that wears corderoy :confused:

[tsb]

Hey, corderoy rocks. ;)

[Super King]

it's hardware/software doing the "snooping" of your emails/searches and not people.

how that really makes a difference. I mean, I could 'totally automate' my Kill-o-bot death machine 2000 to murder everyone that wears corderoy :confused:

That's a pretty bogus analogy. Think of it this way: would you be concerned over your privacy if someone's dog had access to your email? I wouldn't.

[lapsey]

That's a pretty bogus analogy. Think of it this way: would you be concerned over your privacy if someone's dog had access to your email? I wouldn't.

what if you trained your dog to read and work for a large corporation with an obvious interest in consumer profiling

my point was you can automate a system to do anything - all the way from noting how many times an rfid chip is in a given location, up to committing genocide.

[neoflight]

Did anybody really think the information in their email was a secret? Not just from Google, but from just about anybody that wants it? You mean you never wondered why you get emails from people with names that almost match your friends' but that want to increase your ***** size? I would think that, at this point, if the NSA wanted to read your email they could just dig it out of their database instead of wasting their time talking to Google.

Email is about as secure as a postcard. If you're saying anything in email that you don't want people to read, you should think about encryption.


"Digital Fortress" by Dan Brown.!!!

[Chimes]

Lapsey's robot analogy makes perfect sense. The point isn't that a computer is collecting the data. The point is that the data is available to humans.

I think a lot of people are missing the point as to the criticism. The people who are criticising google aren't criticising it because they're "hate"ful people who just want to complain. Don't be silly. This isn't just people being mean. The people who are worrying about this kind of thing are concerned about the issue, that's all.

And perhaps there is good reason to be concerned.

Once again, this is another part of the issue where a lot of people miss the point.

"If you want privacy, just use encryption!"

Sure, if I wanted privacy in my e-mail, I could use encryption. Personal privacy is a large issue, and does merit the use of everyday encryption. Ever see someone with one of those shirts "I read your e-mail?" Isn't the very concept of that a little disturbing? I could use encryption, and I probably should, but that's not the point. The existence of encryption technology does not invalidate Google's invasive practices. Yes, if we want privacy we shouldn't rely solely on our e-mail services to actively pursue privacy for us, and we shouldn't be reliant on major corporations in the first place. But the majority of people out there aren't going to take the time to learn encryption techniques such as PGP/GPG etc, whereas choosing a more respectful e-mail service (such as mailshack) is a relatively easy task.

"Why would you want privacy unless you're doing something bad?"

Good point. So howbout next summer I take over your house. Hey, why do you need a house if it's warm outside anyway? Don't worry, I'll put your bed, food, and clothes out on the lawn for you. And you've got your cellphone for making phone calls. Oh, sure, every aspect of your life will be in the full view of all your neighbors. But hey, who cares? You're not a criminal, right? So why would you care about privacy in the first place?

"Hey, c'mon, don't mess with google, google's cool."

Google provides several useful tools, and that is all. That does not automatically indemnify them from any social or ethical misdeed they perform. It's irrelevant whether they have a "don't be evil" philosophy or not. Right now they are recording every e-mail you send and receive, even if you delete it. Why? Certainly not for your use. But then for whose? Their own? The U.S. government's? How cool they are is irrelevant. What matters is that a basic human right, one that is necessary for a sense of comfort and security, is being violated to no purpose.

[bluenova]

Chimes,

You points also apply to the 1000's of other companies that hold information about you. Google is just in the spotlight.

[Chimes]

Yes, google is in the spotlight. And that is why I'm speaking about google right now. Gmail is the central issue in my post not only because it is the topic at hand, but also because it has been steadily gaining momentum through its viral marketing, and as a result, many more people use it than any one of those smalltime mail services alone (like aussiemail or something).

If we wish to discuss migration as a whole to more secure e-mail services, that's fine. But the subject we were addressing is gmail, its recent popularity, and why google's policy could be a bad thing for all of those users.

[prizrak]

Yes, google is in the spotlight. And that is why I'm speaking about google right now. Gmail is the central issue in my post not only because it is the topic at hand, but also because it has been steadily gaining momentum through its viral marketing, and as a result, many more people use it than any one of those smalltime mail services alone (like aussiemail or something).

If we wish to discuss migration as a whole to more secure e-mail services, that's fine. But the subject we were addressing is gmail, its recent popularity, and why google's policy could be a bad thing for all of those users.
a) There is about as much privacy on the internet as there is in huge public square.
b) Google, MS, w/e else are not forcing you to use their e-mail, Google EXPLICITLY tells you about what they do with your e-mail.
c) If you want to be concerned about privacy, think about this. Every packet that you send goes through a huge number of servers/routers/switches/network segments/DNS servers that know all of the sites you visited even ones you don't want people to know about (how's that snake sex fetish btw?), Google is hardly alone or even the major issue there.

Putting anything on the internet is akin to throwing paper airplanes with notes on them across Times Square. More than a few will end up in the wrong hands. You (and everyone who cares about privacy) needs to start treating the internet as a public place, instead of complaining. Just because your computer is in your bedroom doesn't make the internet private. The encryption argument in this case is akin to you closing your curtains when you don't want people to look inside your house.