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pksings
September 15th, 2012, 01:44 AM
I use Gkrellm to monitor my Precise Pangolin box. Normally at the top right side of the screen. Somehow it reset and came up on the top left. There is no way whatsoever to move the panel so I could relocate it. None...

You have got to be kidding me... That and the fact that the default font for the default theme is nearly invisible in the launcher and cannot be changed.. Very bad taste in my mouth for this "Unity" thing......

Got Compiz working, I guess it's okay, different than it used to be, but okay.

The HUD is positively stupid (IMO), I have disabled it, I want menus.

I'm absolutely floored that there are so many programs like "My Unity" and Ubuntu tweak that provide some of, (but not all) the necessary utilities/options that the "base" window manager and operating system really should. This just like Window$, there is a whole 'nother industry springing up to customize/fix the operating system aftermarket. Two weeks with this and it's almost usable. Two weeks to get the necessary tweaks to make it stop irritating me to death.

Come on Canonical, you have done so much better than this in the past, I cannot believe you foisted this off on us....

I do regret upgrading, should have stayed with 10.04...

I have recommended Ubuntu in the past to at least a hundred people, most of which I helped install and use it. I am not recommending this.. I don't know what else to recommend but I'm going to have to find something, this way to complicated to get to a usable state.

This is a giant step backwards, having to go to a terminal prompt and issue commands to make the GUI do something, remember the years and years and years of complaints about that? What were you thinking??????

P.S. I solved the gkrellm positioning problem by installing Cinnamon, booting to it, hiding the panel, moving gkrellm and then, logout, back to Ubuntu. Cinnamon isn't really much like what I had, so it too is quite foreign. At least Compiz is working fine.

cjhabs
September 15th, 2012, 02:49 AM
I installed Gnome Shell and use that instead of Unity and find 12.04 to be stable and fast on my laptop,

slooksterpsv
September 15th, 2012, 03:32 AM
I'm using Gnobuntu. It's the Gnome-Shell version of Ubuntu. What Gnome is doing is fantastic and amazing. Unity is trying to act like Gnome 3.0 in my opinion, but with their own spin (and sadly failing in my opinion). I really don't recommend Ubuntu like I used to - I tell people Linux Mint. At least it's customizable.

wojox
September 15th, 2012, 03:41 AM
You could always switch to Conky. :)

pksings
September 15th, 2012, 03:59 AM
I'm not a good script writer so conky is completely out of the question. I looked at it seriously a few years back and just gave up out of frustration.

wojox
September 15th, 2012, 04:28 AM
I installed Gnome Tweak Tool

sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get install gnome-tweak-tool
and I'm able to turn off the Have file manager handle the desktop. You could try that and see if it aligns.

newb85
September 15th, 2012, 04:45 AM
And why are we putting a gripe thread in a support forum?

Statia
September 15th, 2012, 11:19 AM
Just use KDE.
I never bothered with Gnome and I will not bother with Unity. I tried Unity on my netbook, but it is too slow for a humble Atom N70 / 1 Gb machine.

In the past I used WindowMaker, then went to KDE and I am happy since.
(Not that I wasn't happy with WindowMaker)
I must say that I went from mature KDE 3 to KDE 4.8, so I missed the horror in between.

I think especially for people just coming from Windows KDE is the best choice, it resembles Windows the most "out of the box" and with some themes can be made to look like Windows even more.

mastablasta
September 15th, 2012, 12:42 PM
This is a giant step backwards, having to go to a terminal prompt and issue commands to make the GUI do something, remember the years and years and years of complaints about that? What were you thinking??????
.

no that is exactly how it should be. Gnome DE took pride in hiding advanced settigns funcitons in GUI from users as to not overwhelm them.

KDE on the other hand does most (if not all) via GUI. So the settings area there is quite big. so for people that like to tweak and do it via default GUI (no 3rd party progs to do it) then Kubuntu is the correct choice. Another good and easy GUi tweaking option is XFCE found in Xubuntu. it too hides but not as much as gnome and tweakign it is super easy. most is done with right clicking the item you want to tweak and then selecting propperties.


so many options out there. but i guess you decided to stick with gnome whose mission was not major "tweakbility" but rather simplicity for the users. And for that, they have no issues removing things to tweak from default apps. some can still be done with CLi as you foudn out.

vasa1
September 15th, 2012, 12:47 PM
And why are we putting a gripe thread in a support forum?
It'll get fixed by-n-by ;)

apochry
September 15th, 2012, 03:05 PM
I don't see why are you complaining here, and why is this thread in the Help session at all...
And don't get a misconception out of this thread, that everybody hates Unity and find it stupid, slow, etc. Look around and you"ll see that many get to love it as soon as they figure out how to make best use out of it. And NO, the HUD is no stupid, it's awesome!
The Linux world is free, nobody forces you to use particular DE. There are so many Ubuntu based distros all with different DEs, use whatever suits you better. As we say "There are passengers for every train". It seems that you took the wrong one, others not. People want to go to different places after all.
Complaining in the forums won't do anything. If think you know how things should be and have ideas write on Ubuntu Brainstorm or something.

Best regards,
- A Unity Lover

pksings
September 15th, 2012, 03:59 PM
And why are we putting a gripe thread in a support forum?

To get the usablity issue(s) fixed. There is no excuse for not being able to move the panel so I can relocate gkrellm. Nor is there one for the invisible font issue, I have tried a number of different themes and still can barely read them. And as for having to drop to the command line to change the GUI, yes, it's the "linux/unix" way, but it can and probably should be avoided. Our Windoze zealots will use it against us.And as for the HUD, I did include "IMO" (In My Opinion) with that comment, which I stand by.

kevinmchapman
September 15th, 2012, 05:37 PM
These "usability issues" are your opinions. Nothing more, nothing less.

Ubuntu, using Unity, is trying to offer some sort of standard, like most proprietry operating systems. That's something of a departure for Linux, but seeing as Linux has not conquered the consumer world in twenty years with its diversity, worth a try to attract new people. You either have to accept the compromises of Unity as a whole, or move on to another option. Let's face it, Linux offers plenty of those. Your choice.

jayboe
September 15th, 2012, 06:12 PM
You guys... you guys... I felt the same way. I dearly missed the Gnome desktop, but I tell you what, now that I have spent enough time trying to understand the thing behind the changes I have found that Unity is alright.
I can navigate Unity much faster than the older versions of Gnome and now that I have tried going back to Gnome (Gnome3) I keep finding myself right back in the Unity environment. I can navigate it so much faster. A quick punch on a a windows button and start typing and watch what your looking for pop up on the screen before your very eyes... and if you find yourself forgetting the name of the app you were looking for, simply move your cursor to the little pencil, pen, and ruler icon after hitting the windows button the filter you results in the top right corner you will quickly see categories that will help you on your way to what it was you were looking for.... sorry guys, but I am a fan that hated it so bad in the beginning, but they have won me over with persistence while I got the hang of it :)

rg4w
September 15th, 2012, 07:48 PM
These "usability issues" are your opinions. Nothing more, nothing less.
Respectfully, not entirely.

Usability can be measured. It's very difficult to do so well, and requires that everyone on the team be willing to accept the possibility that their pet novelties may not measure well. But it can be done.

The usability team at Canonical has done a good job in posting summaries of some of the usability tests done there, but only a few have been published. Though much more has been done there are details in the published summaries which suggest suboptimal methodologies, and a willingness to employ user testing only later into the process than might be ideal, such as pre-code with paper prototyping.

As one example, it's laudable that the team was willing to abandon the "smart hiding" option for the Launcher which had originally been its default. They tested it, and found that the inconsistency of the experience made it difficult for users to anticipate when it would appear.

While it deserves respect that they were willing to part with the original design, the same principle that shot it down logically also applies to concealing the menu bar by default, yet there's been no indication that this was a part of that test, or has been tested at all.

I have great respect for the work the usability team has been doing, but I recognize that their budget may prevent them from testing as much as deserves testing.

Given this, I would not be so quick to dismiss all reported issues of Unity usability so quickly. They may be opinions, but may also contain the seed of a valuable, measurable truth.

newb85
September 15th, 2012, 08:55 PM
I agree with most of what has been said here. When it comes to whether or not the launcher "dodges" or the global menus are used, I think the biggest issue isn't the default behavior, but the fact that there's no way to change the behavior without installing a tweak tool or a patched version of Unity.

Personally, I love being able to press one key and start typing what I want to do, rather than hunt through menu structures. At the same time, I know that there are others who are very efficient with menus, and I respect their preference of menus.

I would jump to a different shell or DE in a heartbeat, but I haven't found another that integrates with zeitgeist so well. (Yes, I know mentioning zeitgiest is likely to rain down another crapstorm of complaints.) I would argue that that and the HUD are the two things that give Unity an edge on usability for the casual user.

On the other hand, if the developers insist on hiding/removing options and decorating the shell with a Fisher Price theme, perhaps they should rename it Kidbuntu.

kevinmchapman
September 15th, 2012, 11:32 PM
Usability can be measured.

I agree with some of what you say, but ultimately, usability is subjective, not objective. Measure as much as you wish, there will not be a "right" answer. That's part of the problem - lots of posters think their opinion is the "truth", and many a post starts with that premise...

vexorian
September 15th, 2012, 11:46 PM
Hidden menu bar just works (tm). It saves up a lot of space in small screens. But I guess users need some sort of visual to tell them what happened.

HUD is also ok, but there needs to be a visual hint or something that it exists. I used unity for a week before finding out it exists, in a forum post.

Unity in 12.04 is fine by my standards. Actually, I dropped my gnome 2 setup for that, and that really means a lot. This was my most significant interface change since quiting windows. Once you install menu libre and go crazy with launchers and quicklists and once you use the dash for a while (to me, the dash is similar to the Awesome bar in firefox, it got a negative overreaction at first, but if you get used to it it can really save up your time). Unity is mostly all right. Its main drawbacks are customizability and performance. (And really, a complaint about not being able to change something is a customization complaint not an usability one).

Usability, like 'bloat' has become a word that means nothing. And it is just a shortcut to complain about something "BAD USABILITY ARGG".



I installed Gnome Shell and use that instead of Unity and find 12.04 to be stable and fast on my laptop,
No quicker way to ensure your PC stays unusable.

Your mileage may vary. I found GS much less useful than unity. I don't want to spend the rest of my life in the top left corner.

--

I think that for an OS like ubuntu that was to be beginner friendly rather than sticking only to the power users, then it is far more important to have sensible defaults than the ability to change them. As a power user, it hurts me that it is so difficult to customize unity. But I think that out of all the GTK-based choices there are so far, unity is the best one as a default interface. Once I grabbed some performance tweaks on my computer, I actually managed to get used to unity without any major tweaks. In cinnamon, GS, gnome fallback or gnome 2, the default was never this good. This is all an opinion, but I think most people would rather have something that works the first time rather than something they can fix themselves.

I won't give up though, I will demand better performance and more customizability. There is no reason unity can't become a good DE for both power users and newbies.

tl;dr: I just like how my icon buttons become colorful when active. It is so cute!

kevinmchapman
September 15th, 2012, 11:53 PM
No quicker way to ensure your PC stays unusable.

Opinion again... I've found my PC to be very usable since Gnome 3.0 came out. Of course, not everyone is so adaptable

kevinmchapman
September 15th, 2012, 11:55 PM
Ha! Cunningly caught before the edit....

kevinmchapman
September 15th, 2012, 11:57 PM
Your mileage may vary. I found GS much less useful than unity. I don't want to spend the rest of my life in the top left corner.

I love seeing this. Remind me again, where was the Gnome2 menu?

vexorian
September 16th, 2012, 12:02 AM
In the top left corner. Task bar and workspace switcher were usually in the bottom. Folders and favorite apps were in the desktop (Remember the desktop? If you are a GS fan you may have started to forget about it. It was not only a wallpaper that you could only get to see (In a darkened more depressing variation) when switching windows).

Quite an amazing thing gnome 2 was. You could click the app menu without having a long animation start.


. Of course, not everyone is so adaptable Funny you would say so.

You can adapt to use unity too.

Albeit with gnome-shell, you actually can't adapt to it. You have to settle with adapting it to you. After maybe installing 50 extensions, you may reach something as useful as cinnamon.

codingman
September 16th, 2012, 12:05 AM
Oh for heavens sake! Unity griper number 1,000,000! Just install gnome-classic or another DE, XFCE is pretty much like the old gnome 2, give it a shot.

codingman
September 16th, 2012, 12:07 AM
In the top left corner. Task bar and workspace switcher were usually in the bottom. Folders and favorite apps were in the desktop (Remember the desktop? If you are a GS fan you may have started to forget about it. It was not only a wallpaper that you could only get to see (In a darkened more depressing variation) when switching windows).

Quite an amazing thing gnome 2 was. You could click the app menu without having a long animation start.

The days when eyecandy was not a priority :rolleyes:

kevinmchapman
September 16th, 2012, 12:11 AM
In the top left corner. Task bar and workspace switcher were usually in the bottom. Folders and favorite apps were in the desktop (Remember the desktop? If you are a GS fan you may have started to forget about it. It was not only a wallpaper that you could only get to see (In a darkened more depressing variation) when switching windows).

Quite an amazing thing gnome 2 was. You could click the app menu without having a long animation start.

Oh, I remember it well. All that mouse movement. Never bothered looking at the redundant desktop as it always had windows in front of it. Still, I mainly use E17, with GS second, so wouldn't claim to be too much of a GS fan.

I don't understand the problem with the left corner. You glossed over that bit

kevinmchapman
September 16th, 2012, 12:15 AM
Funny you would say so.

You can adapt to use unity too.

Albeit with gnome-shell, you actually can't adapt to it. You have to settle with adapting it to you. After maybe installing 50 extensions, you may reach something as useful as cinnamon.

You must stop editing...


Two extensions - alternative status menu and arrow key to move between workspaces in the overview. Trying to reproduce Gnome2 is not the point

vexorian
September 16th, 2012, 12:18 AM
Oh, I remember it well. All that mouse movement. Never bothered looking at the redundant desktop as it always had windows in front of it. Still, I mainly use E17, with GS second, so wouldn't claim to be too much of a GS fan.

I don't understand the problem with the left corner. You glossed over that bit
Yes. Mouse movement is annoying. Yet since all widgets were visible, you only needed one mouse movement. Unlike GS, in which going to the top left is just the start of a long journey through the Gnome's maze.

I get new thoughts pretty fast, and I can't just post them again because that would be considered a bumb and it is against usual forum rules, so I prefer to edit very fast.

kevinmchapman
September 16th, 2012, 12:27 AM
I'm fully prepared to admit I may be a bit thick.... so why is moving the mouse to the top-left corner in Gnome2 better than in Gnome Shell? In Gnome2, it would be followed by some navigation through one of the three menus. In GS, it would be followed by typing a few letters. Hardly a big deal, ether way, surely. In GS, you could just press the Windows key, of course, which may even be an advantage on a laptop

rg4w
September 16th, 2012, 12:45 AM
I agree with some of what you say, but ultimately, usability is subjective, not objective. Measure as much as you wish, there will not be a "right" answer.
You may be right, it may well be that all of the research that's gone into usability over the years, not to mention Jacob Nielsen's $5/day rate, has all been a colossal waste of money ultimately no better than any random joe off the street could do.

I often hear the same about architecture, since of course we all live in a home and know how to use a pencil, so what makes them so special? ;)

I will agree only in that there is no best answer. But this is also true of algorithms, and most anything else.

And I do believe there is always the opportunity for a better answer, and that's why Canonical funds usability research. I'd just like to see more of it.

afulldeck
September 16th, 2012, 12:48 AM
New user perspective here. I haven't had the opportunity to use ubuntu in any other way other than with the unity bar. Honestly, it help me find apps that I was looking for, quickly without knowing much about where these apps where installed or hiding in menus. This is helpful....

My only grip is search. I would like it to do a more detailed search or at least provide suggestions under conditions when there are no matches. For example, I did a search for video recording, editing it would have been nice if it pointed me in some useful direction.

vexorian
September 16th, 2012, 12:51 AM
New user perspective here. I haven't had the opportunity to use ubuntu in any other way other than with the unity bar. Honestly, it help me find apps that I was looking for, quickly without knowing much about where these apps where installed or hiding in menus. This is helpful....

My only grip is search. I would like it to do a more detailed search or at least provide suggestions under conditions when there are no matches. For example, I did a search for video recording, editing it would have been nice if it pointed me in some useful direction.
Yes, most of the times search in unity works ok. But sometimes you need more.

What I did was install the good old gnome desktop utilities from software center. It comes with a search files app, and another "killer app" in that package is the tool to track which folders are using a lot of disk space.

kevinmchapman
September 16th, 2012, 12:55 AM
My only grip is search. I would like it to do a more detailed search or at least provide suggestions under conditions when there are no matches. For example, I did a search for video recording, editing it would have been nice if it pointed me in some useful direction.

Yes, as I understand it, the search works on the .desktop items in ~/.local/share/applications/, then /usr/share/applications/. If the name and description is unhelpful (Evince "Document Viewer", I'm looking at you), the results are not what you want (ie. PDF viewer in this case)