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astef
September 13th, 2012, 11:06 PM
Hi everybody, I'm don't like the direction where Gnome 3 is going and I'm looking for alternatives.

I remember the days of amazement when first discovering Knoppix, Debian some years back. It was so incredible how you could run live an entire OS from a USB stick, how it self configured all the devices without the pain of having to look for and install drivers. I was coming from Windows and the practicality of Linux struck me unexpected. Even multiple virtual desktops made working on the PC much more productive and fun. There are a lot of features in Ubuntu (favorite distro) and it would take pages to describe all of them. In short, for me, Linux just works where as Windows is more of a burden (somehow it gets in the way of work).

But I'm very disappointed with Gnome 3. I get that it's something new and it gets used to, but the interface just seems to stay in your way. Tried KDE (12.04) and it's nice, has a lot of features (if not too many) but applications crash quite often and it doesn't feel 'production' ready somehow. LXDE or Xfce don't seem to do a better job. Other more exotic desktop environments don't seem mature enough. It would be great, in my opinion to just continue running Gnome 2 or somehow stick to Lucid. Currently I'm considering running Lucid beyond it's support date, but have some issues with new hardware (drivers).

Any thoughts on this? Can you be productive with Gnome 3? If yes, how? Thanks

jerrrys
September 13th, 2012, 11:11 PM
Gnome-remix includes Gnome-Classic

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2052509

snowpine
September 13th, 2012, 11:18 PM
I'm not a Gnome 3 user so I can't specifically answer your "Can you be productive?" question. However I feel compelled to point out that you seem stuck in a "Windows mindset" whereby a faceless, unfeeling entity force-feeds us software, about which we can only complain passively and cannot change. In actuality, Gnome (as with all the other DE's) is an open-source project that we all can get involved with. Don't like the direction Gnome is heading? Join the team and steer it in a direction you like! Don't want to get involved in the Gnome team? Fork their source code as was done with Mate DE (available for Ubuntu and also the default for Mint)! Think KDE is too buggy? Help the KDE team test bugs!

Personally I am typing this from Openbox, I like a very simple environment which I find is a big boost to my ADHD productivity. I also have one machine running Fuduntu, a very slick distro committed to keeping Gnome 2 running--check it out, you might like it! :)

astef
September 13th, 2012, 11:31 PM
jerrrys, thanks for the answer. Yes, you are right but let's face it Gnome-Classic has less features and is more resource hungry in my opinion.

snowpine, thanks for the answer. You're right about giving a helping hand, I was thinking that with the drivers and was putting DE on an unreachable pedestal. Now it sounds like a good idea. I heard only good things about Openbox and will look up Fuduntu :) Thanks!

opensshd
September 13th, 2012, 11:32 PM
I really prefer gnome-shell over unity. Seems very solid, I get no applications crashing.. I keep a pretty good eye on logs and resource usage and I feel this system is pretty clean.

I do know what you mean by the interface 'getting in your way', especially unity. With gnome-tweak-tool and a bit of gconf (dconf) mucking, I've really got this GUI doing what I want how I want. I like it :)

pqwoerituytrueiwoq
September 13th, 2012, 11:34 PM
there are other desktop environments


mate
cinnamon
unity
xfce
kde
lxde

arsenic23
September 13th, 2012, 11:38 PM
Have you actually tried the newest xfce? There is a ppa for it and it is awesomely great. There are even a few things I like about it more then gnome2.

astef
September 14th, 2012, 12:04 AM
arsenic23, haven't tried the ppa only precise repo. Xfce was actually one of the first options but I got picky when I didn't find a "open a terminal here" function in Thunar :p Although overall I think it's a good alternative.

opensshd, very interesting idea!

pqwoerituytrueiwoq, mate and cinnamon look very promising!

Thanks guys

Lux Perpetua
September 14th, 2012, 12:53 AM
arsenic23, haven't tried the ppa only precise repo. Xfce was actually one of the first options but I got picky when I didn't find a "open a terminal here" function in Thunar :p Although overall I think it's a good alternative.

opensshd, very interesting idea!

pqwoerituytrueiwoq, mate and cinnamon look very promising!

Thanks guys:? I use XFCE 4.10/Thunar 1.4.0 on my Arch system, and it definitely has "open terminal here."

Primefalcon
September 14th, 2012, 01:27 AM
Unfortunately I think Gnome is headed to an early grave

reasons are thus

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
gnome dev complains about brain drain and and people leaving gnome project

same game devs attributes this to being to stuck on the traditional desktop design regardless of the fact that this "brain drain" has been since gnome 3.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am sorr but I think other desktops like Unity and such are the way forward and that gnome is pretty much already dead

arsenic23
September 14th, 2012, 01:34 AM
Thunar

Oh my no! I don't care for Thunar very much myself. My xfce setup looks like this:

marlin; nautilus rendering the desktop; compiz; the rest of xfce.

WinterMadness
September 14th, 2012, 03:25 AM
you should try doing a fresh install with kubuntu. KDE apps dont really crash since the last few releases, there might have been an underlying issue that you arent aware of. Its a shame that kubuntu is being canned after FINALLY becoming a good kde distro. I stopped using Mandriva because of how good kubuntu got

mamamia88
September 14th, 2012, 04:24 AM
Hi everybody, I'm don't like the direction where Gnome 3 is going and I'm looking for alternatives.

I remember the days of amazement when first discovering Knoppix, Debian some years back. It was so incredible how you could run live an entire OS from a USB stick, how it self configured all the devices without the pain of having to look for and install drivers. I was coming from Windows and the practicality of Linux struck me unexpected. Even multiple virtual desktops made working on the PC much more productive and fun. There are a lot of features in Ubuntu (favorite distro) and it would take pages to describe all of them. In short, for me, Linux just works where as Windows is more of a burden (somehow it gets in the way of work).

But I'm very disappointed with Gnome 3. I get that it's something new and it gets used to, but the interface just seems to stay in your way. Tried KDE (12.04) and it's nice, has a lot of features (if not too many) but applications crash quite often and it doesn't feel 'production' ready somehow. LXDE or Xfce don't seem to do a better job. Other more exotic desktop environments don't seem mature enough. It would be great, in my opinion to just continue running Gnome 2 or somehow stick to Lucid. Currently I'm considering running Lucid beyond it's support date, but have some issues with new hardware (drivers).

Any thoughts on this? Can you be productive with Gnome 3? If yes, how? Thanks

stay in your way? I think that's the beauty of gnome 3 is that the interface only shows itself when you really want it too. for example just add the extension disable corners and you can't accdidently open the activities menu. activities is great you get your open windows, window, search, and dock all in one place. think it would be great on a laptop sitting on your lap since the windows key brings up really everything you would ever need. i think gnome shell is great with a few extensions.

bra|10n
September 14th, 2012, 04:33 AM
you should try doing a fresh install with kubuntu. KDE apps dont really crash since the last few releases, there might have been an underlying issue that you arent aware of.

+1,
Your KDE experience is certainly not typical of *most* user experiences.

vexorian
September 14th, 2012, 04:56 AM
I am really starting to get into unity. I think its main flaw is performance, but it feels more comfortable than GS or gnome-2 once you get used to it.

Too bad I just found out about Kubuntu. But to be honest, other distros were always much better at making KDE bundles anyway.

lovinglinux
September 14th, 2012, 06:53 AM
stay in your way? I think that's the beauty of gnome 3 is that the interface only shows itself when you really want it too. for example just add the extension disable corners and you can't accdidently open the activities menu. activities is great you get your open windows, window, search, and dock all in one place. think it would be great on a laptop sitting on your lap since the windows key brings up really everything you would ever need. i think gnome shell is great with a few extensions.

I think is great as well. I have used classic Gnome for a long time, then moved to KDE when the first gnome-shell drafts came out. I was very pleased with KDE, but when gnome-shell was ready, it really surprised me. No matter how many times I try to use Unity, I always come back to gnome-shell.

There are indeed some really nice extensions for it.

Jakin
September 14th, 2012, 07:45 AM
+1,
Your KDE experience is certainly not typical of *most* user experiences.

True of my KDE experience though :)


My kubuntu 12.04.1 amd64 is rock solid (clean install) then upgraded to KDE 4.9.

I wish i could say the same for Gnome3, it hates my ATi..



I also, heard of KDE' main developer stepping down... maybe it will live on, or even as a fork?

Elfy
September 14th, 2012, 07:48 AM
Thread moved to Recurring Discussions.

mips
September 14th, 2012, 07:48 AM
astef,

Give xfce another go. You can always enable https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/xfce-4.10
12.10 will come with xfce4.10 be default.



:? I use XFCE 4.10/Thunar 1.4.0 on my Arch system, and it definitely has "open terminal here."

Yes thunar definitely has an "open terminal here" function when right clicking on an item.


XFCE is great! I have my panel hidden and disabled desktop icons so it's a nice clean space to work in. I'm beginning to wonder why I even use a panel because I don't really use except for looking at the clock which conky could do for me.

vasa1
September 14th, 2012, 07:55 AM
... I'm beginning to wonder why I even use a panel because I don't really use except for looking at the clock which conky could do for me.
But doesn't that mean having conky visible, either by toggling to the desktop or having windows not maximized.

Statia
September 14th, 2012, 08:36 AM
In actuality, Gnome (as with all the other DE's) is an open-source project that we all can get involved with. Don't like the direction Gnome is heading? Join the team and steer it in a direction you like! Don't want to get involved in the Gnome team? Fork their source code as was done with Mate DE (available for Ubuntu and also the default for Mint)! :)

That is, assuming every Linux user is a programmer.
That may have been true in 1992, but these days I am pretty sure the majority of Linux users couldn't write a "Hello World" in C if you'd put a gun to their head.

(I for sure can't. I'd like to learn programming, but whenever I tried I ran into:
http://abstrusegoose.com/474 )

vasa1
September 14th, 2012, 08:50 AM
...
(I for sure can't. I'd like to learn programming, but whenever I tried I ran into:
http://abstrusegoose.com/474 )
Notice they chose bunnies. Now two bunnies of the right sort can make things quite interesting.

GeneralZod
September 14th, 2012, 09:28 AM
I also, heard of KDE' main developer stepping down... maybe it will live on, or even as a fork?

There isn't a "KDE main developer" - it's developed collaboratively by hundreds of people worldwide. Perhaps you were thinking of the Dolphin developer? In that case, it already has a new maintainer.

And also, to address an earlier post about GNOME becoming a dead project due to developers leaving: the actual numbers flatly contradict this (as you'll be able to see once cia.vc comes back up ;)) In terms of raw commits, GNOME is a picture of health - more active than it's been in its entire history (there are on average in a given month 50-100% more commits than there were in GNOME 2 times, for instance). In fact, I'd say it's actually healthier than KDE nowadays, which has seen gradually declining activity for a couple of years, now (see e.g. http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-commits&r=1&w=2),

Jakin
September 14th, 2012, 09:42 AM
There isn't a "KDE main developer" - it's developed collaboratively by hundreds of people worldwide. Perhaps you were thinking of the Dolphin developer? In that case, it already has a new maintainer.),

Indeed, i meant the Dolphin Developer, sorry about that :oops:

black veils
September 14th, 2012, 10:29 AM
arsenic23, haven't tried the ppa only precise repo. Xfce was actually one of the first options but I got picky when I didn't find a "open a terminal here" function in Thunar :p Although overall I think it's a good alternative.


lets clear a couple of things up.

if xfce seems to be what you would want, then use it, the issue with thunar can be tweaked. you can either manually add them via configure custom actions (i can tell you details for a couple of specific items), or you can install linux mint 13 xfce ! its based on ubuntu and has xfce 4.10, very nicely done, including some useful thunar custom actions.

if you want any kind of 'modern' way to do things, you could install synapse, which will allow you to search and launch app/files, commands, calculations etc fast.

xfce can be configured to look like anything, mostly. i also made various styles of panel themes (panel background images), you can find them by searching here (http://xfce-look.org/).

vexorian
September 14th, 2012, 12:41 PM
In actuality, Gnome (as with all the other DE's) is an open-source project that we all can get involved with. Don't like the direction Gnome is heading? Join the team and steer it in a direction you like!
The gnome guys have not listened to basically anyone and are deadset in the direction they are taking. Just because you join the team as a small developer it won't change the main design. Most you could do is fix some bugs.


Don't want to get involved in the Gnome team? Fork their source code as was done with Mate DE (available for Ubuntu and also the default for Mint)!

If there are already better DEs out there, there is no need to fix gnome or make another fork.

fuduntu
September 14th, 2012, 03:26 PM
I'm not a Gnome 3 user so I can't specifically answer your "Can you be productive?" question. However I feel compelled to point out that you seem stuck in a "Windows mindset" whereby a faceless, unfeeling entity force-feeds us software, about which we can only complain passively and cannot change. In actuality, Gnome (as with all the other DE's) is an open-source project that we all can get involved with. Don't like the direction Gnome is heading? Join the team and steer it in a direction you like! Don't want to get involved in the Gnome team? Fork their source code as was done with Mate DE (available for Ubuntu and also the default for Mint)! Think KDE is too buggy? Help the KDE team test bugs!

Personally I am typing this from Openbox, I like a very simple environment which I find is a big boost to my ADHD productivity. I also have one machine running Fuduntu, a very slick distro committed to keeping Gnome 2 running--check it out, you might like it! :)

I second using Fuduntu! :guitar:

astef
September 14th, 2012, 04:32 PM
Fuduntu is a great alternatie and mips, you were right there is a "open terminal here" in Xfce :)

BigSilly
September 14th, 2012, 07:12 PM
Its a shame that kubuntu is being canned after FINALLY becoming a good kde distro.

Kubuntu, thankfully, is anything but being canned. It has fresh sponsorship (http://lwn.net/Articles/495737/), and is looking, to me anyway, stronger than ever before. Kubuntu 12.04 is a stunning release, and I'm very much looking forward to seeing 12.10.

oldos2er
September 14th, 2012, 09:09 PM
Its a shame that kubuntu is being canned after FINALLY becoming a good kde distro.

Please don't spread FUD.

houseworkshy
September 15th, 2012, 11:52 AM
Actually Kubuntu may well be improved, from my point of view, as the new sponsers have stated that the focus will be on stability over development. I've just searched to find where I read that in order to post a link to the source but couldn't in brief time I looked. This is the link to their website anyway http://blue-systems.com/
There doesn't seem to be much on it yet but note that they also sponser KDE. If that leads to closer collaberation that could be very benificial.

They may also be in for a bit of cash on the business support side. I don't think many business clients like Unity much. In offices people work for wages using office applications on desktop machines and have generally used windows or Mac's through their education, for such people Unity is quite a jump away from the familliar. Should any businesses choose to stay with 'buntu systems Xfce and KDE are the most likely UI's. So many big changes have come from the gnome team so fast, far more than just the GUI, business clients, who have to pay for retraining and put up with interuptions in workflow won't trust Ubuntu for rather a long time. The the stable branch of debian is probably going to be the main benificiary from the Unity runaways, because it's least likely to drop them in it again, but Kubuntu could pick up some of those clients.

If Canonicals gamble works and they do well in the mobile device market, which is going to be difficult against the extreemly intuitive commercial GUI's. Then when a generation have become familliar with the Unity way of doing things and entered the workplace perhaps some of the business clients can be tempted back. Meanwhile some clients could be ok with Xfce and money can be made from the recreational side, the store and licences, but only if one can carve a decent market share. Perhaps that's the idea, Unity does have the sort of look children are supposed to like with play blocks an' all.

Kubuntu don't have to worry about that for years, with luck the new sponsers will learn from the Ubuntu experiance which will fully mature in April next year when gnome2 support is dropped, which is the big deal not the arrival of Unity or gnome3; extra choices are fine. Should Kubuntu decide to make a big play for the mobile device market, do it with another product, don't drop the one your business clients are accustomed to using. When capitalising on free software it must be remembered that a lot of it comes from providing business support. Some change may be inevitable but ease very gently, don't jerk an entire platform away when people are standing on it.

In short Kubuntu being canned would have been sad but Kubuntu getting new sponsors is potentially very good news.
I wish Blue Systems good luck and offer a suggestion. This might be a good time to put up a quick guide on how to make KDE look and behave like gnome2. Easy as a couple of panels and a few widgets are, some clients, who may have been attracted to Ubuntu because they're not computer geeks might not know. One could even add a gnome2look to the themes to make it even easier. Something like that could pull some trade.

bra|10n
September 15th, 2012, 01:15 PM
@houseworkshy,
Great user name by the way...

OT for the most, but if I may...
I quit using Kubuntu altogether for the reasons you suggest might be responsible for the improvements in Kubuntu, their sponsorship.
After requesting more information about "bluesystems" directly from a Kubuntu council member I was assured such information would be forthcoming...
After 4 months I got tired of waiting. I find it slightly odd that the Kubuntu community could rally behind a secret benefactor while assuming it's users would remain comfortable with the silence.

NormanFLinux
September 20th, 2012, 10:37 AM
there are other desktop environments


mate
cinnamon
unity
xfce
kde
lxde


Pantheon is another desktop environment from elementary OS. Light and fast.