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cyberhood
September 10th, 2012, 06:15 AM
Ok, so we all know that Linux rules in the server, supercomputer and mobile phone market. Unfortunately, we also all know that we're getting our butts kicked in the desktop/laptop home and office market, hence the weekly threads on all the Linux distro forums complaining about our supposed “1%” share in said market.

What about holding an advertising competition?
Canonical could put up some prize money...
We Ubuntu users could make pro-Ubuntu, pro-Linux ads and post them on YouTube...
Canonical could set a deadline...
YouTube gets flooded with pro-Linux ads...
Make a thread with a poll for the community to vote for the best video...
Winner takes the prize...
Hopefully some of the videos go viral...

spaceshipguy
September 10th, 2012, 01:23 PM
We Ubuntu users could make pro-Ubuntu, pro-Linux ads and post them on YouTube...
Probably a good idea not to mention Linux :-)

Something like Obama Girl (http://obamagirl.com/), you mean?
Ubuntu boy?
Does anybody out there have a six pack?

cyberhood
September 12th, 2012, 05:06 AM
Probably a good idea not to mention Linux :-)

Something like Obama Girl (http://obamagirl.com/), you mean?
Ubuntu boy?
Does anybody out there have a six pack?

LOL... I mean, yeah, sex sells. That's not the kind of video I would make, but if it's pro-Linux and goes viral I'd consider it a success. I was thinking more RapNews (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o66FUc61MvU) style.
:)

fatality_uk
September 12th, 2012, 11:42 AM
* GRUMPY OLD GIT MODE ENABLED *

While making videos will move the needle maybe 0.001%, the real key is for Linux distos to get tie-ups with hardware makers, PC sellers and for the distros themselves to stop mucking around with DE's, lenses and god knows what else, pool resources and make a set of "killer apps" that will mean a user can start a Linux office app and know that a spreadsheet/word doc/photoshop file etc will work with 100% compatibility.

Until this happens, PC sellers wont stock Linux PC's because their market is the "average user" who will return said Linux PC in a heartbeat if they can't open the file they have just been sent.

whatthefunk
September 12th, 2012, 12:17 PM
Ok, so we all know that Linux rules in the server, supercomputer and mobile phone market. Unfortunately, we also all know that we're getting our butts kicked in the desktop/laptop home and office market, hence the weekly threads on all the Linux distro forums complaining about our supposed “1%” share in said market.

What about holding an advertising competition?
Canonical could put up some prize money...
We Ubuntu users could make pro-Ubuntu, pro-Linux ads and post them on YouTube...
Canonical could set a deadline...
YouTube gets flooded with pro-Linux ads...
Make a thread with a poll for the community to vote for the best video...
Winner takes the prize...
Hopefully some of the videos go viral...

Youtube advertising is not going to work because its voluntary.

forrestcupp
September 12th, 2012, 12:22 PM
Youtube advertising is not going to work because its voluntary.

+1.

Also, there are already thousands of videos on YouTube promoting Linux, and it's not doing any good now. Only people who are already interested in Linux are going to search YouTube for Linux videos.

The only real way to advertise is on TV and radio, and that costs a lot of money if you really want to be effective.

Paqman
September 12th, 2012, 01:04 PM
Best thing Canonical can do is what they are doing: build relationships with OEMs and get Ubuntu preinstalled and in shops in the BRICs with proper marketing. Europe and North America would be tough markets to crack initially, if we can ship significant numbers in Asia and South America we can build from there.

mastablasta
September 12th, 2012, 02:39 PM
they also need more games ported. because if they worked and worked well or better on Linux then more kids would be willing to give it a try. if kids have it and it's better parents would want it.

and most importantly they need to sort out package mangement and old software compatibility. i am thinking something PC-BSD style. old solftware should be bale to exists along with new. Microsoft has quite good backwards compatibilty. for example at work we are still using old dos based programme for an old databse. it's being used less and less but it works well on win7 and xp.

pqwoerituytrueiwoq
September 12th, 2012, 02:56 PM
the average computer user (at least in the states) does not know what a OS even is, some don't even know what version of windows they are using, if i had a nickel for every time i asked "do you have a blue bar at the bottom of your screen" (we know where this is going)
what i suspect most people do is buy a laptop use it till it stops working right (virus/malware) and get a new one and i am sure the OEMs love that, that alone is a reason for them to stay with windows
if OEMs would sell linux laptops (assuming MS/Apple don't go on the sue everything warpath) and retailers would carry them there would be a note worthy percentage of linux users

kurt18947
September 12th, 2012, 03:13 PM
the average computer user (at least in the states) does not know what a OS even is, some don't even know what version of windows they are using, if i had a nickel for every time i asked "do you have a blue bar at the bottom of your screen" (we know where this is going)
what i suspect most people do is buy a laptop use it till it stops working right (virus/malware) and get a new one and i am sure the OEMs love that, that alone is a reason for them to stay with windows
if OEMs would sell linux laptops (assuming MS/Apple don't go on the sue everything warpath) and retailers would carry them there would be a note worthy percentage of linux users

In the retail market? Oh yeah! I'd like to know how many machines whose hardware is functioning perfectly are replaced because "it's slow". Where is the incentive for Staples, Best Buy, Office Max et. al. to sell machines that don't 'require' replacement every 2-3 years? Perhaps no so different from the American auto companies who had no incentive to produce cars that didn't rust out/fail mechanically in a few years until the Japanese car companies sold cars that would outlive 2 or 3 'big 3' produced cars and burned less gas doing it.

HermanAB
September 12th, 2012, 04:09 PM
Why bother to promote Linux to the great unwashed masses? There is no benefit to it.

Anyhoo, the desktop market is a tiny niche. The rest of the computer world is dominated by Linux. MS and Apple can have their little niche.

cyberhood
September 12th, 2012, 08:01 PM
Also, there are already thousands of videos on YouTube promoting Linux...
Yes, but have any of them gone viral?

cyberhood
September 12th, 2012, 08:03 PM
In the retail market? Oh yeah! I'd like to know how many machines whose hardware is functioning perfectly are replaced because "it's slow". Where is the incentive for Staples, Best Buy, Office Max et. al. to sell machines that don't 'require' replacement every 2-3 years? Perhaps no so different from the American auto companies who had no incentive to produce cars that didn't rust out/fail mechanically in a few years until the Japanese car companies sold cars that would outlive 2 or 3 'big 3' produced cars and burned less gas doing it.
@ pqwoerituytrueiwoq & kurt18947
True, it's called planned obsolescence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence).

cyberhood
September 12th, 2012, 08:06 PM
Why bother to promote Linux to the great unwashed masses? There is no benefit to it.

Anyhoo, the desktop market is a tiny niche. The rest of the computer world is dominated by Linux. MS and Apple can have their little niche.

Why bother? To increase cyber-freedom.

I know Linux dominates the server, supercomputer and smartphone market, but I wouldn't discount the home desktop/laptop and work desktop/laptop market as "tiny".

Paqman
September 12th, 2012, 09:44 PM
Why bother to promote Linux to the great unwashed masses? There is no benefit to it.


That's a very developer-centric attitude, and IMO the main reason Linux has failed to get anywhere on the desktop.

There is a benefit: there are obvious gaps in the Linux software catalogue that will only get filled if there are enough people using desktop Linux.

Mikeb85
September 12th, 2012, 09:51 PM
That's a very developer-centric attitude, and IMO the main reason Linux has failed to get anywhere on the desktop.

There is a benefit: there are obvious gaps in the Linux software catalogue that will only get filled if there are enough people using desktop Linux.

I disagree, Windows is friendlier to developers.

Linux is geared more towards programmers - those who are creating scripts for personal or corporate use, web pages, cloud applications, etc...

Apple and Microsoft both make developing native desktop apps much easier than Linux has...

cariboo
September 13th, 2012, 03:29 AM
I disagree, Windows is friendlier to developers.

Linux is geared more towards programmers - those who are creating scripts for personal or corporate use, web pages, cloud applications, etc...

Apple and Microsoft both make developing native desktop apps much easier than Linux has...

There are millions of Ubuntu users that aren't programmers, and they either don't know how, or don't want to create their own scripts. As Ubuntu is now, and if it was pre-installed on their computer, most users would use it the same way they use Windows now, without realizing they are using a Linux distribution.

Most people have problems with a Linux distribution because of it's DIY nature, and they aren't willing to spend the same amount of time learning to use it, as they did learning how to use Windows.

As for programming, have you tried Quickly (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Quickly)? I'm not a programmer by any stretch of the imagination, and I've created a small program with very little problem.

vexorian
September 13th, 2012, 03:32 AM
Ok, so we all know that Linux rules in the server, supercomputer and mobile phone market. Unfortunately, we also all know that we're getting our butts kicked in the desktop/laptop home and office market, hence the weekly threads on all the Linux distro forums complaining about our supposed “1%” share in said market.
Why would I want the share to get higher than 1%? Low market share is not stopping me from enjoying this ubuntu thing. Would be nice if it increased , but there's no need to force things.




What about holding an advertising competition?
Canonical could put up some prize money...
We Ubuntu users could make pro-Ubuntu, pro-Linux ads and post them
Canonical could set a deadline...
YouTube gets flooded with pro-Linux ads...
We then get flooded with angry newbies that were mislead by advertising.

And get a reputation for being annoying and flooding with youtube videos.


I disagree, Windows is friendlier to developers.

You mean "developers" (with quotes included).

The less of them we got the better.

heminder
September 13th, 2012, 03:32 AM
There are obvious gaps in the Linux software catalogue that will only get filled if there are enough people using desktop Linux.

This is exactly it. The masses that matter won't come to desktop Linux because there's no fully-featured specialist software packages on Linux to do their jobs with. Then nobody wants to make these packages because there aren't enough people on desktop Linux for it to be worthwhile. Kind of a catch-22.

vexorian
September 13th, 2012, 03:35 AM
Those masses can keep their shiny windows and stop bothering us with their special needs.

heminder
September 13th, 2012, 03:39 AM
Those masses can keep their shiny windows and stop bothering us with their special needs.
And this is why desktop Linux has 1% market share.

vexorian
September 13th, 2012, 04:02 AM
And this is why desktop Linux has 1% market share.
Great.

I mean really. These guys have special needs. Special needs that are already fulfilled by windows. They don't need ubuntu. And I don't see why should that be a problem for us. Trying to sell them the idea that ubuntu will work for them will only flood the forums with people complaining about how they can't run the very important Cow Cash 3000 software that is such a "Basic" thing windows has and ubuntu doesn't.

On the other hand, if we stop caring about it, then everyone is rather happy. They can keep their windows that runs their ultra specialized apps and we can keep trying to make the ubuntu better for the general purpose rather than for specific needs of niches that are already locked-into Microsoft and will never move away because they are already locked-in.

You may argue that we NEED those users. But really, that does not matter. Because as they have already been locked we cannot win this battle even if we wanted to. Just like you said. For those specialized apps to exist in ubuntu, we would need those users to be in ubuntu. But those users won't be in ubuntu until we have those apps. I'd rather not invest any tear into this problem.

If we want to win more marketshare, we need to oferr users something that Microsoft does not. Instead of trying to steal users that are already lost permanently to Microsoft due to specialized apps that already work well in windows. This is the reason iOS and Android were so quick to become massive successes over windows whilst Ubuntu kept a solid 1% for ages.

cyberhood
September 13th, 2012, 05:19 AM
Why would I want the share to get higher than 1%?
Because we are not truly free until everyone is free.


Low market share is not stopping me from enjoying this ubuntu thing. Would be nice if it increased , but there's no need to force things.
Who said anything about using force?


We then get flooded with angry newbies that were mislead by advertising.
Who said anything about making misleading ads?


On the other hand, if we stop caring about it, then everyone is rather happy.
I don't know about you, but I personally know very few, probably zero, users who are happy with Windows.


They can keep their windows that runs their ultra specialized apps and we can keep trying to make the ubuntu better for the general purpose rather than for specific needs of niches that are already locked-into Microsoft and will never move away because they are already locked-in.
I don't buy that at all. 99% of desktop/laptop users need a web browser and an office suite, THAT'S IT. For the 1% who need an über-specialized program they've got options and can still run Linux: dual-boot, virtual machine, Wine.

heminder
September 13th, 2012, 05:33 AM
No, these guys don't have special needs. They are normal folk who use their computers for a living and/or in some cases for their hobbies.

The only people I can wholly recommend Linux as a desktop to are those whose only interests are surfing the web and using office suites. The other demographic are FLOSS advocates and geeks who probably already run Linux anyway. It pains me to say that because I really want Linux to succeed on the desktop.

The majority that I introduce Linux to have either shown no interest because they see it as a downgrade from Windows/Mac, or only partial interest and install Ubuntu through Wubi only to remove it later on. Few give it dedicated drive space by dual-booting and continuing to use it, and even fewer migrate completely because they simply cannot do their work on Linux even if they want to.

KiwiNZ
September 13th, 2012, 05:37 AM
Those masses can keep their shiny windows and stop bothering us with their special needs.

Thankfully there are many in our community that think different and not self centered.

mamamia88
September 13th, 2012, 05:39 AM
No, these guys don't have special needs. They are normal folk who use their computers for a living and/or in some cases for their hobbies.

The only people I can wholly recommend Linux as a desktop to are those whose only interests are surfing the web and using office suites. The other demographic are FLOSS advocates and geeks who probably already run Linux anyway. It pains me to say that because I really want Linux to succeed on the desktop.

The majority that I introduce Linux to have either shown no interest because they see it as a downgrade from Windows/Mac, or only partial interest and install Ubuntu through Wubi only to remove it later on. Few give it dedicated drive space by dual-booting and continuing to use it, and even fewer migrate completely because they simply cannot do their work on Linux even if they want to.
As a general purpose os it really doesn't matter what os you use. So people use what comes on their computer. And like others said what incentive is there for oems to put operating systems on computers that don't slow down? If the computer is running fine why replace it? Oh and apple seems to be doing just fine even though their audience is somewhat the same as Ubuntu.

cyberhood
September 13th, 2012, 06:01 AM
The majority that I introduce Linux to have either shown no interest because they see it as a downgrade from Windows/Mac...
All the more reason to point them to WhyLinuxIsBetter.net (http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net/), or just memorize the main reasons and convince them verbally.

mikodo
September 13th, 2012, 07:12 AM
I think Canonical, needs to partner with some heavy hitter OEM's
and spend a wad of cash and start selling Ubuntu TV's and phones using Ubuntu One to sync everything together.

That's what most of the people I know, want from their OS.

forrestcupp
September 13th, 2012, 12:26 PM
Yes, but have any of them gone viral?No, and there's a reason for that. Most people aren't geeks, and they don't give a rat's backside about a video about an operating system. They want to watch the latest Katy Perry video or ones about people accidentally hurting themselves.


Why would I want the share to get higher than 1%? Low market share is not stopping me from enjoying this ubuntu thing.
Well there are pros and cons to having a bigger market share. The pros are that if we have a bigger share, we're going to get better hardware support without having to reverse engineer things. Also, more software companies and game companies would start to take us seriously and port or even create their software for Linux. My son's school makes all the students be in the accelerated reader program, which has a website that requires a plugin that doesn't work with Linux. If we had a bigger market share, we may not have to worry things like that.

The downside is that you'll have a bunch of software developers who jump into it to make money, and they don't have any understanding or respect for the FOSS community. It's no big deal for companies to try to make money, but I could see how desktop Linux could get watered down and compromised, and just turn into another Windows with more UI choices.

synaptix
September 13th, 2012, 02:04 PM
Get gaming companies to start supporting and promoting Linux.

You wouldn't believe how many fixes could be done to Bug #1 (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1) if more companies supported Linux for their games.

whatthefunk
September 13th, 2012, 02:15 PM
Because we are not truly free until everyone is free.

Then you will never be free.

Let people do what they want. If somebody wants to use Windows, let them use Windows. If somebody wants to use Apple, whatever. If somebody wants to use Linux, thats fine too. Getting all upset because there are less Linux users than you think there should be is only going to result in pointless frustrations.

Sef
September 13th, 2012, 02:17 PM
moved to recurring discussions. This is not a new subject.

Gone fishing
September 13th, 2012, 03:00 PM
I enjoy using Ubuntu in a way that doesn't happen with Windows - I feel a little sorry for Windows users. I think we need to get out and show people in the real world as oppose the virtual world what they are missing.

I agree Games ported to Ubuntu would do no harm at all to fixing bug #1, it would bring in more enthusiasts and with them more users developers apps etc.

Jakin
September 13th, 2012, 04:10 PM
Im hoping with games being "mass ported" to linux- it will make linux video drivers from all manufacturers alot better than they are :p (that to me is BUG #1 :@ )

Mikeb85
September 13th, 2012, 06:18 PM
I enjoy using Ubuntu in a way that doesn't happen with Windows - I feel a little sorry for Windows users. I think we need to get out and show people in the real world as oppose the virtual world what they are missing.

I agree Games ported to Ubuntu would do no harm at all to fixing bug #1, it would bring in more enthusiasts and with them more users developers apps etc.

Don't feel sorry. Windows is easy to use, and Linux isn't quite ready for the masses.

Breaking dependencies, libraries, fragmentation and instability are what's holding Linux back, as well as a consistent way to sell proprietary software. Like it or not, most developers like to make money. The Ubuntu software centre is a good start, but it's buggy and slow as hell...

Gone fishing
September 13th, 2012, 10:43 PM
Breaking dependencies, libraries, fragmentation and instability are what's holding Linux back, as well as a consistent way to sell proprietary software. Like it or not, most developers like to make money. The Ubuntu software centre is a good start, but it's buggy and slow as hell...

I'm going to have diisagree - some of why I disagree was covered nicely on the latest Linux action show, better than I will. But:

Dependancy hell I've been using Ubuntu since Hory and never had a dependancy problem. I have in Opensuse, but Windows also suffers from this its called dll Hell and its quite common. try running Access 2000 on Windows 7 and see what happens Outlook wont even run.

Instability between Windows and Ubuntu I'd say were about the same and both acceptable.

Fragmentation, is it a problem? does every distro have to be sucessful for Ubuntu to be sucessful? I think not.

Developers making money - yes I agree, one reason why I'm interested in Valve and Linux gaming. Lets not forget Windows 8 is moving to an app store, Ubuntu already has one, Yes Software centre could be better, but its not bad and improves on every release.

Lets also not forget Windows has its own issues - Winrot the way it degrades overtime. Maleware though much improved is still more of a problem in Windows than Ubuntu.

Ubuntu is just more fun.

cyberhood
September 14th, 2012, 04:00 PM
Let people do what they want. If somebody wants to use Windows, let them use Windows. If somebody wants to use Apple, whatever. If somebody wants to use Linux, thats fine too. Getting all upset because there are less Linux users than you think there should be is only going to result in pointless frustrations.
I'm not upset that we're at 1%, I'm excited about the prospect of growing.

cyberhood
September 14th, 2012, 04:04 PM
moved to recurring discussions. This is not a new subject.
I'll admit that the discussion that the thread has provoked is guilty for many dead equus, but -and correct me if I'm wrong- the OP idea is original...

How about moving it to Art & Design...

cyberhood
September 14th, 2012, 04:45 PM
I have to completely disagree with those who say Ubuntu is too complicated of an OS for the masses. Over the years since I've been using Linux (I've done my fair share of distro-hopping) I have successfully installed Ubuntu on dozens of friends' and familys' computers, most of whom know very little about computers. It usually takes them no more than a couple of days to adapt. I teach them some basic self-reliance skills, and tell them that if they get stuck they can always call me or come to these forums. I've had not one person revert back to Windows®, why? because it's more stable, more secure, and easy to use.
Some of you are acting like Ubuntu is some super-advanced distro. Ubuntu was meant to be for the masses as Bug #1 (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1) and its name (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_%28philosophy%29) suggests, and in my experience it excels in that. It's not CRUX GNU/Linux (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRUX) fo crying out loud.

vexorian
September 14th, 2012, 05:02 PM
No, and there's a reason for that. Most people aren't geeks, and they don't give a rat's backside about a video about an operating system. They want to watch the latest Katy Perry video or ones about people accidentally hurting themselves.


Well there are pros and cons to having a bigger market share. The pros are that if we have a bigger share, we're going to get better hardware support without having to reverse engineer things. Also, more software companies and game companies would start to take us seriously and port or even create their software for Linux. My son's school makes all the students be in the accelerated reader program, which has a website that requires a plugin that doesn't work with Linux. If we had a bigger market share, we may not have to worry things like that.

The downside is that you'll have a bunch of software developers who jump into it to make money, and they don't have any understanding or respect for the FOSS community. It's no big deal for companies to try to make money, but I could see how desktop Linux could get watered down and compromised, and just turn into another Windows with more UI choices.
I am saying, sure it would be nice to have a larger marketshare. But trying to force ubuntu into users that do not need it will rather reduce our marketshare and increase our headaches (angry users are bad PR) rather than help us.

We shouldn't lie to them. If they have a very specialized need that is covered by windows, they shouldn't move to ubuntu.

Anyway, I don't like monopolies. I don't like the idea of ANY OS having more than 60% of market share. The optimal would be to have 5 or 7 home OS with between 15 and 30%. Interoperability and standards would be the rule and we would also be safer, because it would be difficult for crackers to target 99% of all computers easily. New OS would be able to grow naturally and thus we would have a lot of innovation. As a consumer, I would like a healthy market. That would benefit me the most. But I am divagating.

cyberhood
September 14th, 2012, 05:42 PM
I am saying, sure it would be nice to have a larger marketshare. But trying to force ubuntu into users that do not need it will rather reduce our marketshare and increase our headaches (angry users are bad PR) rather than help us.
Or decrease headaches, as we would also attract people willing to learn and other experts willing to help.


We shouldn't lie to them. If they have a very specialized need that is covered by windows, they shouldn't move to ubuntu.
Again, who said anything about lying??? These reasons (http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net/) are not lies. I still maintain that those with "very specialized needs" are in the <1% and can still use Linux with dual-boot, virtual machines and Wine.


Anyway, I don't like monopolies. I don't like the idea of ANY OS having more than 60% of market share. The optimal would be to have 5 or 7 home OS with between 15 and 30%. Interoperability and standards would be the rule and we would also be safer, because it would be difficult for crackers to target 99% of all computers easily. New OS would be able to grow naturally and thus we would have a lot of innovation. As a consumer, I would like a healthy market. That would benefit me the most.
Agreed, so what do you suggest in order to fix bug #1 (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1)?

aysiu
September 14th, 2012, 06:57 PM
If you want to increase the desktop Linux (as opposed to server Linux or Android Linux) marketshare, create a product... an actual branded product with thoughtful hardware-software integration, a proper marketing campaign, retail outlets, and tech support.

If you want to increase desktop Linux marketshare by lying to people about Linux being a problem-free version of Windows and encouraging non-tech-savvy users to download a .iso file, then... good luck with that.

cyberhood
September 14th, 2012, 07:32 PM
If you want to increase desktop Linux marketshare by lying to people about Linux being a problem-free version of Windows and encouraging non-tech-savvy users to download a .iso file, then... good luck with that.

Why do people keep bring up "lying to people"??? The OP says absolutely NOTHING about lying!
Maybe I have a wild imagination, but I can image videos which talk about truthful advantages of using Linux.

aysiu
September 14th, 2012, 07:39 PM
Why do people keep bring up "lying to people"??? The OP says absolutely NOTHING about lying!
Maybe I have a wild imagination, but I can image videos which talk about truthful advantages of using Linux.
Of course no one actually admits to lying. No one will say "I'm going to lie about Linux to get more users." They may not even think they are lying. But in just about every promotion of Linux amongst bloggers or video campaigners, I've seen lies about Linux and lies about Windows... lies intended to give the impression desktop Linux is in essence a problem-free version of Windows.

cyberhood
September 14th, 2012, 07:42 PM
Of course no one actually admits to lying. No one will say "I'm going to lie about Linux to get more users." They may not even think they are lying. But in just about every promotion of Linux amongst bloggers or video campaigners, I've seen lies about Linux and lies about Windows... lies intended to give the impression desktop Linux is in essence a problem-free version of Windows.
"...just about every promotion of Linux..." is a pretty far stretched exaggeration, and the OP never suggested that the videos would have to include lies. We can say plenty of pro-Linux things without lying.

aysiu
September 14th, 2012, 08:04 PM
"...just about every promotion of Linux..." is a pretty far stretched exaggeration, Actually, it's not. And I've been using Linux since 2005. That's seven years of lies I've seen, intentional or unintentional.
and the OP never suggested that the videos would have to include lies. We can say plenty of pro-Linux things without lying. Go for it. Either way, lying or not, if the strategy is "Here, download this .iso," you will not increase the Linux desktop marketshare significantly.

vexorian
September 14th, 2012, 09:26 PM
Or decrease headaches, as we would also attract people willing to learn and other experts willing to help. We won't if we are not honest. We should tell the windows users that were locked into specialized apps that this is not for them. Then the remaining users will come.




Again, who said anything about lying??? These reasons (http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net/) are not lies.

I am talking about windows users that really need windows and how we got to be honest with them and tell them to stick with it. That web site actually agrees with me:http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net/stick_to_windows/software/


If there is a piece of software that you absolutely cannot work without, then keeping Windows is probably a good choice.

The OP was not really talking about this, but the thread got derailed. And sure, the windows users locked into windows-only apps could dual boot. But then, windows would still have its marketshare. And it is also an extra annoyance we are asking the users to do. [We know you can use a web browser and play videos from windows without leaving the OS that runs your essential software, but could you please do that stuff in ubuntu and just move to windows to use your program?]

But anyway, whylinuxisbetter.net may not be 'lying' but it is not excempt of half truths. We all know the real reason why ther are so little viruses in Linux. BTW, many of its pages are outdated. Now that windows uses UAC, it is no longer a selling point to say that we have "smart authentification". And although we used to enjoy a live CD that included all the software most people needed, nowadays we are lucky canonical hasn't decided to scrap libre office or firefox yet. I miss having the GIMP in such an easy way :(

I think that ultimately using such innacurate sites with exaggerations and half truths is going to mislead users into thinking that Ubuntu is something it is not. And the real result you get from that is not managing to convince the users to stay, they would just react towards the opposite direction. "Your site said I would forget about drivers, but here I am and can't get my webcam to work! >(". Your site said this is very customizable, but I can't even move the sidebar to the right side!.


If we want more users we got to be more honest. And stop making Linux look like an utopia. It isn't. We got a pretty decent operating system, but it has problems, and sure, windows has problems too. It is not for everyone, but maybe it is for you. This live CD allows you to try it for free and find out yourself.

cyberhood
September 14th, 2012, 11:37 PM
We won't if we are not honest. Again, OP said nothing about being dishonest.


We should tell the windows users that were locked into specialized apps that this is not for them. Then the remaining users will come.
IMO, this <1% is not enough to worry about when making the videos. Sure you could add some fine print footnotes if you'd like though.


I am talking about windows users that really need windows...
You're talking about <1% of users. 99% of users just need a web browser and office suite.


We all know the real reason why ther are so little viruses in Linux.
Yeah we do: Linus' Law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus%27_law).


But anyway, whylinuxisbetter.net may not be 'lying' but it is not excempt of half truths.
BTW, many of its pages are outdated. Now that windows uses UAC, it is no longer a selling point to say that we have "smart authentification".
Gimmie a break! I was using it as an example of some things that might be included in the vids.


And although we used to enjoy a live CD that included all the software most people needed, nowadays we are lucky canonical hasn't decided to scrap libre office or firefox yet. I miss having the GIMP in such an easy way :(
Again, GIMMIE A BREAK! Using Ubuntu Software Center to get GIMP is much easier than getting in my car and going out and dropping a ton of money on a copy of Photoshop® then coming home and installing it. And it's much easier, not to mention ethically superior, than stealing a copy of Photoshop®.


If we want more users we got to be more honest. And stop making Linux look like an utopia. It isn't. We got a pretty decent operating system, but it has problems, and sure, windows has problems too.
I agree with you that we should be honest. Want to hear my honest story? I grew up using Windows®, I suffered from non-stop instability, viruses, trojans, malware, BlueScreensOfDeath. About 5 years ago I switched over to Linux because I was sick of all of Windows'® crap. What have I been rewarded with? Ultra-stability, hyper-security (compared to Windows® at least), a mostly helpful community and pure enjoyment. Has it been easy? No. Have I had to learn a lot about a few intermediate-level IT solutions to problems? Yes, but I can fix my own computer! But now that I know the basics, and with the help of the useful people on this forum (with the exception of the "Community" forum which seems to be full of trolls wishing to derail threads) Linux does exactly what I want it to do and I have none of the headaches that I had when I used Windows®.
Again, no one said anything about making the videos look like Linux is some kind of utopia. Read the unedited OP people. Stop putting words into my mouth in an attempt to derail the thread further.

Gone fishing
September 15th, 2012, 01:09 AM
Go for it. Either way, lying or not, if the strategy is "Here, download this .iso," you will not increase the Linux desktop market-share significantly.

Maybe but I suspect giving away free CDs was one of the reasons that Ubuntu is the most used distro, certainly it is the reason I started with Ubuntu, I stuck with it because, its possibly the most usable desktop distro (the other main reason) http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/24396/opensuse-12-2-review-las-s23e06/ . Is it perfect no, yes it is possible that you need Windows because you need to use an app, but is Ubuntu an alternative to Windows? - Yes – a viable desktop? - Yes.

Do we need to lie about Ubuntu? – no, is it perfect? – no, but neither is Windows. so let not pretend that Windows is a perfect Utopia for the average user, it isn't.

This is what Canonical say http://www.canonical.com/about-ubuntu/for-you


Fast, easy, secure – Ubuntu puts your needs first. Whether you work from home or you use your computer for networking and email, Ubuntu does the job. Once you’ve downloaded it, Ubuntu is ready to go straight away.

And


Ubuntu Desktop is safe, easy-to-use and, best of all, it's completely free. Surf the web, read emails, create documents and spreadsheets, edit images and have fun.


Are they lying – I don't think so, if you do - why are you here?

I think Canonical has a stratagy to fix bug #1 we can help by showing people in the real world what Ubuntu can do.

vexorian
September 15th, 2012, 02:16 PM
Again, GIMMIE A BREAK! Using Ubuntu Software Center to get GIMP is much easier than getting in my car and going out and dropping a ton of money on a copy of Photoshop® then coming home and installing it. And it's much easier, not to mention ethically superior, than stealing a copy of Photoshop®.
It is still a lot much harder than just having it installed in the live CD. Internet connection is not a given. Even if you do have a ISP, it may happen that you need restricted drivers to make your network card work. And thus the live CD wouldn't be able to download packages. The great thing about the live CD was that you could, in case of an emergency, still have a usable OS without configuring or tweaking. If now you configure and tweak gimp, it is not the same thing.

But the web site does not mention that it would be easiest to install new apps. It says that the apps will come installed. It is not the same and thus it is inaccurate.

Gone fishing
September 16th, 2012, 01:54 AM
It is still a lot much harder than just having it installed in the live CD. Internet connection is not a given. Even if you do have a ISP, it may happen that you need restricted drivers to make your network card work. And thus the live CD wouldn't be able to download packages. The great thing about the live CD was that you could, in case of an emergency, still have a usable OS without configuring or tweaking. If now you configure and tweak gimp, it is not the same thing.

Why insist on this fallacy, that Windows is a lovely utopia where everything is easy and on Ubuntu is next to impossible? - why insist on creating situations where it will be easy in Windows and hard in Ubuntu?


Internet connection is not a given.Fortunately this is not often the case in most countries, However bitter (third world) experience tells me that Ubuntu is bad without Internet, Windows a train wreck. XP without Internet will inevitably be a virus infested hell - Windows you need Internet or a Phone to even install and in some countries that could be an international phone call.


restricted drivers to make your network card work You could say what happens if you need the internet to download wireless drivers for Windows, an often very painful process involving dodgy drivers sites and Google translate for strange sites in China. It is possible you might need restricted drivers to get your wireless working in Ubuntu but highly unlikely that you need them for a cable so I'd suggest using that.

The download centre model is good - it is easy - what happens if you drive to you retailer and they don't have a copy of Photoshop? or your car breaks down? or you crash? etc

Possibly the truth is that many users would find either Windows or Ubuntu on their PCs a challenge, In Windows this is largely done by the oems so the user is saved from it. For users who are capable and confident to Install Windows from scratch, installing Ubuntu could be a viable even preferable alternative if they knew about it, had someone hold their hands through the process - surely that one of the functions of Ubuntu forums, that and advocacy?

BertN45
September 16th, 2012, 02:20 AM
As soon as Ubuntu increase its market share considerably, they will be sued by Apple for patent infringement, that seems to be their main line of business nowadays.

iponeverything
September 16th, 2012, 03:09 AM
usually I just throw in a word here or a sentence there, to get someone over a hump -- if they show little initiative trying to solve the problem on their own..

But have to say that I always find the evangelistic spirit of converts to be quite amusing. Something missed quite often is fact that is not a competition - Linux is not in the race, so it can't win or lose.

Linux will remain relevant as long as its useful. It is not company that can be sued or go out of business and it has no share holders that are holding anyone accountable for desktop market share.

We are what we are, a bunch of folks that help each other and improve the tiny part the universe that we inhabit.. some folks like gardening, others motorcycles, we like an OS -- its bit like liking a road -- but no one said that we weren't bit strange..

But hey -- anyone who evangelizes and works to get others to see light, is fine me. I know what I know, linux has my sole OS since '93, but I really don't expect anyone else to look at their computer and OS the way that look mine.. Most people just see it as a tool - so telling them Linux is better than X -- is like saying this pickup truck is better than that van.. most people are like, yea so what?

cyberhood
September 16th, 2012, 11:25 PM
It is still a lot much harder than just having it installed in the live CD. Internet connection is not a given. Even if you do have a ISP, it may happen that you need restricted drivers to make your network card work. And thus the live CD wouldn't be able to download packages. The great thing about the live CD was that you could, in case of an emergency, still have a usable OS without configuring or tweaking. If now you configure and tweak gimp, it is not the same thing.
Yeah, IMO I agree with ya there, it should come with GIMP installed like it used to. But given that one has internet connection a couple of clicks ain't that hard.


But the web site does not mention that it would be easiest to install new apps. It says that the apps will come installed. It is not the same and thus it is inaccurate.
There are over 300 different flavors of Linux (http://distrowatch.com/). Many of them come with GIMP installed. That site's not just about Ubuntu. Don't get me wrong, I love GIMP, but it's far from being an essential app for most people. Like I said 99% of users just need a web browser and office suite. I think you're looking for dirt where there's none to be found bud.

jones27557
September 17th, 2012, 12:41 AM
Do most people in the U.S. care? They just know they puch the button and their computer starts up. I can recall my tech support days, "What operating system are you using?" Answer: "Microsoft Office".


23

WinterMadness
September 17th, 2012, 10:08 PM
do a kickstarter for linux advertisements

cyberhood
September 17th, 2012, 10:16 PM
do a kickstarter for linux advertisements
Now that's a good idea... I might just give it a shot!

litiform
October 12th, 2012, 09:39 PM
I think Unity is going to help increase market share. But people need to know it exists and its tough when so many computers come preloaded with Windows.

krishna.988
October 15th, 2012, 10:03 AM
I think Linux will succeed in Desktop when all the Major Linux Problems are fixed:

http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.htm l

whatthefunk
October 15th, 2012, 11:34 AM
I think Linux will succeed in Desktop when all the Major Linux Problems are fixed:

http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.htm l

So never then.

aysiu
October 15th, 2012, 02:06 PM
I think Linux will succeed in Desktop when all the Major Linux Problems are fixed:

http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.htm l
Didn't see the words preinstall or OEM in there, so I thoroughly disagree with those points as being the way Linux will succeed in "the desktop."

mike acker
October 16th, 2012, 02:21 PM
I think Unity is going to help increase market share. But people need to know it exists and its tough when so many computers come preloaded with Windows.

Dell is now offering systems pre-loaded with Ubuntu...

I have argued for the last year or so that we should be offered two types of computers: serious/business and experimental

software updates would be restricted on the serious computer while the experimentals would let experimenter try whatever they like

today I see Win-8 as a derivitive of the experimental path and Linux as a derivitive of the serious/business path

i think we are going to see MSFT go deeper into the entertainment/gaming field; their recent strategy announcement certainly indicates that

IMHO { which is free, as usual } MSFT is in the process of abandoning the business field. I would bet Canonical sees this and this would likely be a factor in the Dell/Canonical marketing effort

IMHO: It's About Time

vexorian
October 18th, 2012, 07:38 PM
I have an idea.



Ubuntu
[x] You can disable the Amazon adware that shows up every time you search for stuff locally!

Windows
[ ] No amazon adware feature included by default.


We are so going to win this battle.

krishna.988
October 19th, 2012, 06:11 AM
Infact Linux market share is decreased to only 1 Percent this month

Blackmag+c
October 19th, 2012, 11:44 PM
Surely if by some miracle the ubuntu market share increases to let us say......a majority then ubuntu won't be free anymore?

When somebody wants the same functionality as let's say WINDOWS the people providing this are obviously going to create a solid pricing structure to cope with this.

Are all of you prepared for this?

I for one enjoy the novelty of a free operating system and I realise that progressing will mean more and more users..but I fear that this will bring a shift which I am not too keen on.

whatthefunk
October 20th, 2012, 12:18 AM
Surely if by some miracle the ubuntu market share increases to let us say......a majority then ubuntu won't be free anymore?

When somebody wants the same functionality as let's say WINDOWS the people providing this are obviously going to create a solid pricing structure to cope with this.

Are all of you prepared for this?

I for one enjoy the novelty of a free operating system and I realise that progressing will mean more and more users..but I fear that this will bring a shift which I am not too keen on.

Why would more users make Ubuntu suddenly charge for their OS?

offgridguy
October 20th, 2012, 12:23 AM
* GRUMPY OLD GIT MODE ENABLED *

While making videos will move the needle maybe 0.001%, the real key is for Linux distos to get tie-ups with hardware makers, PC sellers and for the distros themselves to stop mucking around with DE's, lenses and god knows what else, pool resources and make a set of "killer apps" that will mean a user can start a Linux office app and know that a spreadsheet/word doc/photoshop file etc will work with 100% compatibility.

Until this happens, PC sellers wont stock Linux PC's because their market is the "average user" who will return said Linux PC in a heartbeat if they can't open the file they have just been sent.

Thumbs up on this.

offgridguy
October 20th, 2012, 12:29 AM
usually I just throw in a word here or a sentence there, to get someone over a hump -- if they show little initiative trying to solve the problem on their own..

But have to say that I always find the evangelistic spirit of converts to be quite amusing. Something missed quite often is fact that is not a competition - Linux is not in the race, so it can't win or lose.

Linux will remain relevant as long as its useful. It is not company that can be sued or go out of business and it has no share holders that are holding anyone accountable for desktop market share.

Yeah apparently it isn't a race or you wouldn't give the competition a 20 year head start
Why worry about market share now.

offgridguy
October 20th, 2012, 12:31 AM
so never then.

lol

Blackmag+c
October 20th, 2012, 12:35 AM
Why would more users make Ubuntu suddenly charge for their OS?

Maybe something along the lines of red hat?

I don't have a solid argument I'll admit. But I for one would not like it if this was implemented because of a massive influx of users needing support.

whatthefunk
October 20th, 2012, 06:49 AM
Maybe something along the lines of red hat?

I don't have a solid argument I'll admit. But I for one would not like it if this was implemented because of a massive influx of users needing support.

Ubuntu already has a paid service for people who want support plans.

http://www.ubuntu.com/business/advantage

At the moment, this is largely designed for business use, but since the infrastructure is already there on some level, Im guessing it could be easily expanded if Ubuntu ever felt that it could make home computer support profitable.

Paqman
October 21st, 2012, 12:32 PM
Surely if by some miracle the ubuntu market share increases to let us say......a majority then ubuntu won't be free anymore?


I direct you to The Ubuntu Promise (http://www.ubuntu.com/project).