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View Full Version : Are google chrome adverts anti-competitive?



vexorian
September 5th, 2012, 09:14 PM
I use firefox. Perhaps more because I am used to it and etc.

Google has a humongous control of the web I use. Do I need to read my email? google. Do I need to search? Google. Translate? google. Share docs? google. Watch lame videos? Google.

So, how does google receive me every once in a while?
http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=223723&stc=1&d=1346876100

Let's forget for a second that I have never really experienced any significant speed up (or speed up at all) when using google chrome. (Maybe my download speed is so slow that it does not matter?) But I keep getting these ads whenever I use a google product. They are not ad sense stuff chosen by accident, they are messages that sound like tips and are placed in strategic positions of the layout.

Google is basically telling me. "Use my browser or you'll have less features". Is it not anti-competitive? I am sorry, but I happen to remember the time when MS got the anti-trust law boot for bundling IE by default and making it so integrated with windows that it was difficult to change. Is what google are doing much different?

sffvba[e0rt
September 5th, 2012, 09:16 PM
Anti-competitive IMO would be if it changed so you could only use Chrome for all the Google services. This is advertising, and if you don't like it I guess you could always stop using the services offered...


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Paqman
September 5th, 2012, 09:50 PM
Google is basically telling me. "Use my browser or you'll have less features". Is it not anti-competitive?

No because in the case you cite, it's true. It's not against any kind of law to point out that they have a product with better features than the one you're using.

Competitive? Yes Anti-competitive? No.

KiwiNZ
September 5th, 2012, 10:03 PM
If their advertisements are anti-competitive then all advertisements are anti competitive. There is nothing wrong with organisations or corporates promoting their products. That is how revenue is gathered and salaries paid.

Mikeb85
September 5th, 2012, 10:34 PM
It would only be anti-competitive if they required the use of Chrome to access their web products... Simply suggesting Chrome is a better experience in their own advertisements is fine, and pretty standard business.

Overall, I've found Google's business practices and annoyance to me, the customer, to be far better than competitors like Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, etc... Google isn't perfect, but they are one of the 'better' corporations.

Bachstelze
September 5th, 2012, 10:41 PM
Google has a humongous control of the web I use.

Only because you want them to.


Do I need to read my email? google.

There are a lot of good and reliable free email providers, starting with your ISP. Self-hosting is also less complicated than you think.


Do I need to search? Google. Translate? google.

OK with those two, Google is hard to beat there. That and maps are the only things I use it for.


Share docs? google.

See what I said above about self-hosting.


Watch lame videos? Google.

Do you really need to do that, though?

alexan
September 5th, 2012, 10:47 PM
Absolutely anti-competitive, but people should had be aware of this long time ago. Specifically I talk about "once upon a time" when Google promoted Firefox (Chrome didn't existed at all) install with +1$ for webmasters which successful made users to install Firefox+google-toolbar.

Opera was always my favorite player... the most competitive and no MS trick (IE preinstalled on 90% desktop PC), no Mozilla trick (Google +1$ mentioned) and no Google trick (promote incessantly Chrome on Google's homepage when opera browser detected). Now ×that× competitive: when you're surrounded by tricky giants, stay clean and you're still in game fighting and kicking.

smellyman
September 6th, 2012, 12:53 AM
Google Chrome advertising is everywhere.

So many programs that you install offer Google Chrome download too. They have really inundated everything with Chrome adverts.

People often used to ask me, "what is this Chrome? It says I need to install it to make the web faster."

When you own the internet you can do what you want.


Off to surf the Google.

Bachstelze
September 6th, 2012, 12:58 AM
People often used to ask me, "what is this Chrome? It says I need to install it to make the web faster."

Google clearly profits form people's computer illiteracy. Enough to want everyone to be computer illiterate, including their own children (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=12162077#post12162077).

Paqman
September 6th, 2012, 01:13 AM
Google clearly profits form people's computer illiteracy. Enough to want everyone to be computer illiterate, including their own children (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=12162077#post12162077).

The choice of schools of a small number of parents is hardly likely to be corporate policy.

I've got to say, I quite like the sound of that school and wouldn't mind my own kids going there. There will be computers at home.I managed to grow up to be pretty tech-savvy, and we barely had computers at my school.

Primefalcon
September 6th, 2012, 02:01 AM
I don't see any issue with placing an advertisement for their own product inside a service they provide....

If it bothers you that much adblock it or go over to hotmail..... personally.... I'll stick with gmail :D

FYI I am a firefox user..... simply because I can still do the old ol
lsof | grep -E "/tmp/Flash*" and then
vlc /proc/####/fd/##

and that does not work in chrome anymore due to the change from flash to the pepper api

vasa1
September 6th, 2012, 03:50 AM
I use firefox. Perhaps more because I am used to it and etc.

Google has a humongous control of the web I use. Do I need to read my email? google. Do I need to search? Google. Translate? google. Share docs? google. Watch lame videos? Google.

...
Nonsense.

vasa1
September 6th, 2012, 03:51 AM
Google clearly profits form people's computer illiteracy. Enough to want everyone to be computer illiterate, including their own children (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=12162077#post12162077).

Adverbs such as clearly don't convert opinion into fact.

mamamia88
September 6th, 2012, 04:31 AM
Nonsense.

+1 you could always use bing, yahoo, or any number of alternatives. also what you are describing is more like upselling. enjoy these fine google products? well you may enjoy this as well

pqwoerituytrueiwoq
September 6th, 2012, 05:24 AM
I don't see any issue with placing an advertisement for their own product inside a service they provide....

If it bothers you that much adblock it or go over to hotmail..... personally.... I'll stick with gmail :D

FYI I am a firefox user..... simply because I can still do the old ol
lsof | grep -E "/tmp/Flash*" and then
vlc /proc/####/fd/##and that does not work in chrome anymore due to the change from flash to the pepper api

lsof | grep -E "/tmp/Flash*" seems a bit slow here
i use this one opens in smplayer

cd /tmp;d="`date`";ln -s `f="$(ls -l /proc/$(pgrep -f flashplayer)/fd | grep deleted)" && f="${f##*:+([0-9]) }" && f="${f%% -*}" && echo /proc/$(pgrep -f flashplayer)/fd/"$f"` /tmp/"movie-$d";smplayer -fullscreen /tmp/"movie-$d"


any way i have a button in a addon called toobar buttons i can click to translate a page
**if you have issues with that addon the dev is too busy with school atm
i have the latest dev version (1.0.1b3Pre4.1) if you need it just ask me for it

Primefalcon
September 6th, 2012, 06:36 AM
lsof | grep -E "/tmp/Flash*" seems a bit slow here
i use this one opens in smplayer

cd /tmp;d="`date`";ln -s `f="$(ls -l /proc/$(pgrep -f flashplayer)/fd | grep deleted)" && f="${f##*:+([0-9]) }" && f="${f%% -*}" && echo /proc/$(pgrep -f flashplayer)/fd/"$f"` /tmp/"movie-$d";smplayer -fullscreen /tmp/"movie-$d"


any way i have a button in a addon called toobar buttons i can click to translate a page
**if you have issues with that addon the dev is too busy with school atm
i have the latest dev version (1.0.1b3Pre4.1) if you need it just ask me for it
Will do... Thx :-)

Kreaninw
September 6th, 2012, 12:26 PM
You're saying Google is the best(in what you're using). Then, to suggest alternative services to you seems to be useless. Just accept the ads or change to Google Chrome. IMO Google Chrome is far better than Firefox, especially on Linux. It's their service, at least, they have the right to promote their products, in a proper way.

vexorian
September 6th, 2012, 03:50 PM
^I like gmail. Until reading this thread's replies I had this strange and unusual idea that you should be able to like some services from a company without having to like the others. Even if I stopped liking gmail, I would be doomed. Changing my email address would basically bring me a world of pain.

Google chrome is proprietary and thus an inferior product by design. Chromium is open source but its interface still sucks.

Anyway, I will request for people not to miss the actual question: How exactly is Google trying to enforce its monopoly abuse into forcing chrome and google+ into you is any different from MS' behavior with windows and internet explorer?

And again, they are not simply ads. They are misleadingly put as "tip" boxes. Misleading tip boxes that sometimes outright lie. When I am using gmail and my crappy ISP starts acting act. Gmail tells me "Internet is too slow, get google chrome, it is faster!".

mamamia88
September 6th, 2012, 03:54 PM
^Cause changing your email address is completely viable

And I like gmail. I think it is completely possible for someone to use some services from a company but not every service?

Google chrome is proprietary and thus an inferior product by design. Chromium is open source but its interface still sucks.
lol not everything proprietary is inferior because it's proprietary.

vexorian
September 6th, 2012, 03:58 PM
We are talking about web browsers. A proprietary Web browser is inherently inferior by design.

Get a proprietary web browser and you might as well return to windows 98 times and use Internet Explorer 6.

No thanks.

---



Only because you want them to.

Ridiculous. I talked about my choices because it explains how I found out about google's anti-completive behavior.

Back in Netscape vs. Internet explorer days. You could choose not to use windows and you would be using OS/X or perhaps Linux or whatever. It does not change the fact that Microsoft had a OS monopoly and was abusing it to impose their web browser. (This is a legal fact that was decided by court).

Google currently has the search monopoly. My personal choices would not change that. So whether or not I keep using google products is irrelevant as to the question if their misleading adverts disguised as tips are anti-competitive or not (Not facts but speculations).

deadflowr
September 6th, 2012, 04:04 PM
The fundamental difference between Google promoting their own products through their own services and what microsoft did in their anti-trust case is that google is only offering an option. Microsoft gave no real option, forcing retailers and OEM to ship only their software or none of their software. That was the crux of the case, and not merely bundling their own software.

mamamia88
September 6th, 2012, 04:13 PM
We are talking about web browsers. A proprietary Web browser is inherently inferior by design.

Get a proprietary web browser and you might as well return to windows 98 times and use Internet Explorer 6.

No thanks.

---



Ridiculous. I talked about my choices because it explains how I found out about google's anti-completive behavior.

Back in Netscape vs. Internet explorer days. You could choose not to use windows and you would be using OS/X or perhaps Linux or whatever. It does not change the fact that Microsoft had a OS monopoly and was abusing it to impose their web browser. (This is a legal fact that was decided by court).

Google currently has the search monopoly. My personal choices would not change that. So whether or not I keep using google products is irrelevant as to the question if their misleading adverts disguised as tips are anti-competitive or not (Not facts but speculations).
weird because last time i checked google chrome and safari where both pretty good browsers and both happen to be proprietary. sorry i'll use what works best for me be it proprietary or open source. .

Paqman
September 6th, 2012, 05:19 PM
Google chrome is proprietary and thus an inferior product by design.

Wow, pretty fundamentalist attitude to quality. Shouldn't software be judged on it's actual quality, rather than adherance to dogma?

Chrome and Chromium are almost identical code, yet Chromium is wholesome and Chrome isn't?

Being open source isn't any indicator of quality, there's plenty of awful open source software. Likewise there is excellent proprietary software. It would be better if the excellent proprietary stuff was available under a better licence, but the licence isn't the only criteria to judge quality unless you're a free software zealot who can't see the wood for the trees.

aysiu
September 6th, 2012, 05:37 PM
The fundamental difference between Google promoting their own products through their own services and what microsoft did in their anti-trust case is that google is only offering an option. Microsoft gave no real option, forcing retailers and OEM to ship only their software or none of their software. That was the crux of the case, and not merely bundling their own software. This.

I use Android, Gmail, and a whole host of Google products. But I use Firefox instead of Chrome, and Google has done nothing to prevent me from using Firefox.

CharlesA
September 6th, 2012, 05:51 PM
I use Android, Gmail, and a whole host of Google products. But I use Firefox instead of Chrome, and Google has done nothing to prevent me from using Firefox.

I do the same, altho I do have to dismiss that message on the google homepage after each browsing session due to cookie restrictions, it isn't a huge deal tbh.

deadflowr
September 6th, 2012, 05:58 PM
Yeah, I would have to say Google's behavior is more in the realm of annoying than anti-competitive.

fatality_uk
September 6th, 2012, 06:10 PM
Nope

Kreaninw
September 6th, 2012, 07:19 PM
I even use Google Chrome on Android. Opera Mobile, Firefox... I use them all, depend on my mood. We've so may choices, in fact, it's too good to be true, all for free.

Not close to anti-competitive... unless Google block Firefox, Opera, IE, Safari from Google Search and all of their products >..<

Buntu Bunny
September 7th, 2012, 01:07 AM
Not close to anti-competitive... unless Google block Firefox, Opera, IE, Safari from Google Search and all of their products >..<

Interesting thread. I have a Google blog, but am unable to access the dashboard with Opera. I keep getting error messages and have to use either Chrome or Firefox. I can only guess it's because these are supported browsers, Opera is not. So I am limited by Google if I don't use their product. (If it wasn't for that, I'd use Opera 100%).

deadflowr
September 7th, 2012, 01:55 AM
Interesting thread. I have a Google blog, but am unable to access the dashboard with Opera. I keep getting error messages and have to use either Chrome or Firefox. I can only guess it's because these are supported browsers, Opera is not. So I am limited by Google if I don't use their product. (If it wasn't for that, I'd use Opera 100%).

Very interesting, so I looked around to find out more and came across this:

http://www.ghacks.net/2012/07/05/google-annoys-opera-users-with-incompatibility-warnings/

Buntu Bunny
September 7th, 2012, 02:08 AM
Very interesting, so I looked around to find out more and came across this:

http://www.ghacks.net/2012/07/05/google-annoys-opera-users-with-incompatibility-warnings/

You know, I found that page too when I researched the problem. So I changed preferences to identify Opera as Firefox. I still couldn't login. My error message is actually different; Google tells me I can't login because I am logged out at another location (what location?) I make sure all my browsers are logged in to that account but it doesn't make a difference.

Out of curiosity, I masked Opera as Firefox when I checked my Gmail. Google told me my version of Firefox was outdated, did I want to update to the latest version. :p

I've asked about this on the Opera forums, but no one there has been able to help me either. So I use Chrome to blog, Opera for everything else.

Merk42
September 7th, 2012, 03:51 PM
Google chrome is proprietary and thus an inferior product by design.
Gmail, Google Search, and other Google sites are proprietary too...

Therefore your solution is to use a completely FOSS equivalent of all those, which will of course mean you won't get ads for Chrome.