The new Microsoft threat

[j814wong]

Say what you want about Microsoft but they have a new advantage now. They have OSes on mobile (tablet and Phone), desktop, and gaming systems. They have Windows 8, Windows Phone 8, Windows RT, XBOX. So what exactly is their advantage? The integration. All of these systems can tie together and work with each other.

Apple has their desktop and mobile (tablet and phone) OSes tied together but Microsoft has much more tied together plus they have one of the most popular gaming systems in the world.

What does this mean for Google?
Google only has direct control and influence on Android a mobile OS. They won't have nearly the same integration with desktop platforms such as OSX and Windows 8. Furthermore, Windows 8 is a full desktop OS that can also run on tablets while Android can only run on tablet hardware which is inherently weaker then desktop and laptop level hardware. In other words, Windows 8 has the potential to become powerful even if people hate Metro because their integration of all their systems is more powerful and that ecosystem of systems is something only Microsoft has. Regardless of the growth of tablets, desktops are still needed by many and while Google can only take on the mobile market, Microsoft can take on more markets with a promise of integration of systems that cannot be matched by anyone else?



What does this mean for Ubuntu on the desktop?
Lovers of open source and no restrictions will still use Linux but with the growing popularity of tablets and Windows 8 which can run on tablets but offer desktop and laptop level power, Ubuntu may be at risk. Business users will appreciate the mobile and desktop integration of Windows 8 and will not be compelled to use Linux unless for workstations or servers.

If Google does not expand their markets, Microsoft may eventually have control of a significant majority of consumer computing on desktops, laptops, tablets, phones, and gaming. In the past, the dominated only desktop and laptop computing but they are expanding their reach and this is a great source of concern if they gain control of so many different markets.

When more laptop/tablet convertible with preferably non-Arm hardware comes out, it is crucial to try to get Ubuntu to have maximum compatibility with such devices to expand onto tablets while still keeping desktop computing in mind. I would readily replace my Android tablet and Ubuntu laptop with such a system. And with Steam coming, Ubuntu can also expand as a gaming platform as well.

My hopes
More tablet/laptop convertibles are coming out. For the ones running non-Arm hardware, if Ubuntu can be gotten to work on such devices, Ubuntu can expand onto the tablet market. Ubuntu could simply convert to more tablet friendly interface when in tablet mode. In laptop mode, Ubuntu would use Unity and be desktop/laptop friendly. Thus, there won't be a need to made an all in one interface which is only going to screw users over. Now, with portable computing being all the rage while desktop computing not being nearly as popular as it used to be, getting Ubuntu on tablet/laptop devices and with critical components such as wireless and touchscreen working is of great importance in my opinion because then I would have a tablet that can also be used as a laptop with desktop/laptop level abilities and power. I would love if Ubuntu would work on a device like the Dell XPS Duo 12 or Sony Vaio Duo.

[sffvba[e0rt]

Android has done very nicely against the walled garden that is the Apple universe where everything is also very "integrated"...


404

[vasa1]

Say what you want about Microsoft but they have a new advantage now. ...
Time to go long?

[kio_http]

My hopes
More tablet/laptop convertibles are coming out. For the ones running non-Arm hardware, if Ubuntu can be gotten to work on such devices, Ubuntu can expand onto the tablet market. Ubuntu could simply convert to more tablet friendly interface when in tablet mode. In laptop mode, Ubuntu would use Unity and be desktop/laptop friendly. Thus, there won't be a need to made an all in one interface which is only going to screw users over. Now, with portable computing being all the rage while desktop computing not being nearly as popular as it used to be, getting Ubuntu on tablet/laptop devices and with critical components such as wireless and touchscreen working is of great importance in my opinion because then I would have a tablet that can also be used as a laptop with desktop/laptop level abilities and power. I would love if Ubuntu would work on a device like the Dell XPS Duo 12 or Sony Vaio Duo.

Microsoft has already given strict instructions that make it impossible to change the OS on Windows 8 ARM tablets / convertibles.

[vexorian]

Lovers of open source and no restrictions will still use Linux but with the growing popularity of tablets and Windows 8 which can run on tablets but offer desktop and laptop level power, Ubuntu may be at risk. Business users will appreciate the mobile and desktop integration of Windows 8 and will not be compelled to use Linux unless for workstations or servers. You mean business users will prefer Microsoft OS? Like they have been doing for decades? Does not sound very scary to me.

BTW: Android can not only run in ARM.

I hope MS succeed at their secure boot stunt. Success in there will only raise the eyebrows of the anti-trust regulators and I am sure MS' didn't enjoy the last time they had to go there.

Edit: Calling Windows 8 a "full OS that also runs in mobile" is deceiving. The thing is that no matter that the OS is supposedly the same, architectures are still different. If Adobe make a windows 8-friendly version of photoshop, it wouldn't work in the mobile version unless Adobe make an ARM version

[Copper Bezel]

A Metro version would presumably work either way - Microsoft is pushing HTML5 and JavaScript and also has .Net as Metro languages, and they're all architecture-mostly-independent. There will inevitably be tweaks when things don't match up. But enterprise software is also more likely to be desktop software anyway. Adobe isn't going to sell Photoshop under the terms of the Windows Store. (A price limit below the current retail and a 20% cut by Microsoft.)

[vasa1]

A Metro version would presumably work either way - Microsoft is pushing HTML5 and JavaScript and also has .Net as Metro languages, and they're all architecture-mostly-independent. ...
Where have you been? It's not Metro. Never was ... ;)

[robtygart]

They have OSes on mobile (tablet and Phone), desktop, and gaming systems. They have Windows 8, Windows Phone 8, Windows RT, XBOX. So what exactly is their advantage? The integration. All of these systems can tie together and work with each other.

Linux can do that too, I don't see your point, people who use Windows will still use Windows and the same for Linux. People will use what works for them, and most of the time people stick with what they know.


Ubuntu may be at risk. Business users will appreciate the mobile and desktop integration of Windows 8 and will not be compelled to use Linux unless for workstations or servers.

If your a business that could mean a lot of work changing things over and training staff. Knowing Microsoft they are all about bells and whistles and forced to upgrade for security. The next Windows 9 will be something new and there again you need BUY the next upgrade, change things over and training staff.

If I had a business I would want to know what I have will still be there in 5 years without the throw away cost of fancy phones and limited operating systems.

[Nixarter]

Microsoft has already given strict instructions that make it impossible to change the OS on Windows 8 ARM tablets / convertibles.

source?

please, please, please tell me you are joking

[alexfish]

source?

please, please, please tell me you are joking
http://www.softwarefreedom.org/blog/2012/jan/12/microsoft-confirms-UEFI-fears-locks-down-ARM/

[j814wong]

Windows 8, not the RT version will be coming on laptop tablet convertibles meaning a full desktop OS that can run x86 applications or full desktop applications on a tablet style device. If this runs as well as Microsoft says, Android is endangered in my opinion. However, battery life on such devices with Windows 8 may not be very high in comparison to lower poweres Android tablets.

My main point is that Microsoft can offer integration of various systems that are major parts of many people's lives that Android and Ubuntu still cannot offer yet.

Because a number of laptop tablet convertibles run x86 hardware, Ubuntu can expand onto the tablet market if it is gotten to work on such devices.

[j814wong]

I'm not too sure how well Ubuntu works on Arm devices but it has worked on x86 devices so effort should be focused on x86 hardware convertibles.

Anyway, I hope the EU takes action against the restrictions of blocking other OSes.

[alexfish]

I'm not too sure how well Ubuntu works on Arm devices but it has worked on x86 devices so effort should be focused on x86 hardware convertibles.

Anyway, I hope the EU takes action against the restrictions of blocking other OSes.
The threat does not come from MS . MS is entitled to allow a secure boot as in "none tamper". it is common sense when dealing with security.

The secondary action or "Threat" comes from the vendors or manufacturers of products as in "arm based devices", read up on how arm devices are manufactured by licence. have already posted a link to this subject , read it.

[mr john]

I think people exaggerate the threat of Microsoft. There are other companies out there suing left, right and center. Those evil companies are making Microsoft look alot less evil. Not saying Microsoft have never done anything evil, but there is another company out there that are being very evil at the moment,

[vexorian]

Many of them are being MS' proxies.

Would not be shocked a bit to find out MS is financing 25% of Apple's legal fees.
--

If "Secure" boot was about security at all then it would be disabled by default and the user would be allowed to setup his own keys. Else it is monopolistic BS under "security" excuse.

[neu5eeCh]

From what I can gather, businesses use Windows because of Office, not the other way around. OS News (http://www.osnews.com/story/26327/Windows_8_desktop_mode_Office_2013_touch-unfriendly) just published a post on MS's so-called integration of Office with Windows 8 and Windows 8 Mobile (if that's what it's called?). One word: NOT. In my opinion, the thing to watch is Office, not Windows -- and that appears to be a complete and utter mess.

[KiwiNZ]

Many of them are being MS' proxies.

Would not be shocked a bit to find out MS is financing 25% of Apple's legal fees.
--

If "Secure" boot was about security at all then it would be disabled by default and the user would be allowed to setup his own keys. Else it is monopolistic BS under "security" excuse.

What would be the logic behind MSFT financing cost for a considerably wealthier competitor? With Apples fiscal reserves they do not require handouts.

[cariboo]

What would be the logic behind MSFT financing cost for a considerably wealthier competitor? With Apples fiscal reserves they do not require handouts.

This is the Cafe, there is a conspiracy theory behind almost every thread and post here. :) :) :)

[KiwiNZ]

Many of them are being MS' proxies.

Would not be shocked a bit to find out MS is financing 25% of Apple's legal fees.
--

If "Secure" boot was about security at all then it would be disabled by default and the user would be allowed to setup his own keys. Else it is monopolistic BS under "security" excuse.


This is the Cafe, there is a conspiracy theory behind almost every thread and post here. :) :) :)

Damm I forgot that.

Must remember the conspiracy theories

Must remember the conspiracy theories


Must remember the conspiracy theories

Or maybe rename the Cafe The History Channel

[vexorian]

It is cute to see mods misbehaving and dismissing people's opinions as conspiracy theories. I guess that the whole "set an example" thing is merely antiquated tradition.


What would be the logic behind MSFT financing cost for a considerably wealthier competitor? With Apples fiscal reserves they do not require handouts.
The one to benefit the most from Apple's legal actions are Microsoft. I think that is quite obvious. In the case of Android, MS and Apple are closer to BFF than "competitors".

http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Samsung+Release+Statements+Following+Court+D ecision+Microsoft+Gloats/article25516.htm

What Apple and Microsoft would LOVE to have is turning the mobile market into the new PC market. With Apple controlling the luxurious side and Microsoft a big chunk of it. They love to compete each other, because both follow the same business model that themselves created for their own benefit. What they don't love is to compete against something like Android, that switches their tables completely. MS hates the idea of an OS that allows device retailers to be independent. Apple hates the idea of something being more innovative than them.

It is not a stretch to think of them as allies in this battle. Specially because they have already quite made it evident. The whole H.264 story shows how many of their objectives are common. Apple boycotts ogg and gets it removed from HTML5 standard. Then we see a conjunct effort in which Microsoft uses windows market power and Apple uses device control to turn H.264 into the defacto standard. Now we see them both as the main parties to win money from H.264 devices. It is all great.

BTW, I just said "I would not be surprised" if that was the case. I think Microsoft's contribution is more like on financing the media reaction to the case rather than paying for legal fees. But still.

[KiwiNZ]

It is cute to see mods misbehaving and dismissing people's opinions as conspiracy theories. I guess that the whole "set an example" thing is merely antiquated tradition.


The one to benefit the most from Apple's legal actions are Microsoft. I think that is quite obvious. In the case of Android, MS and Apple are closer to BFF than "competitors".

http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Samsung+Release+Statements+Following+Court+D ecision+Microsoft+Gloats/article25516.htm

What Apple and Microsoft would LOVE to have is turning the mobile market into the new PC market. With Apple controlling the luxurious side and Microsoft a big chunk of it. They love to compete each other, because both follow the same business model that themselves created for their own benefit. What they don't love is to compete against something like Android, that switches their tables completely. MS hates the idea of an OS that allows device retailers to be independent. Apple hates the idea of something being more innovative than them.

It is not a stretch to think of them as allies in this battle. Specially because they have already quite made it evident. The whole H.264 story shows how many of their objectives are common. Apple boycotts ogg and gets it removed from HTML5 standard. Then we see a conjunct effort in which Microsoft uses windows market power and Apple uses device control to turn H.264 into the defacto standard. Now we see them both as the main parties to win money from H.264 devices. It is all great.

BTW, I just said "I would not be surprised" if that was the case. I think Microsoft's contribution is more like on financing the media reaction to the case rather than paying for legal fees. But still.

In the sector that Apple are doing the suing they are direct competitors to MSFT , your supposition is illogical, why would MSFT finance a competitor in order for that the competitor to finish in a stronger market position thus rendering them an even greater threat to MSFT's resurgence into that sector.

Also staff are entitled to opinion as well

[vasa1]

In the sector that Apple are doing the suing they are direct competitors to MSFT , your supposition is illogical, why would MSFT finance a competitor in order for that the competitor to finish in a stronger market position thus rendering them an even greater threat to MSFT's resurgence into that sector.

My viewing of the history channel gives me the impression that certain companies do operate via proxies. SCO is an example. Anyone who tries to convince me to the contrary has no chance of doing so.


... Also staff are entitled to opinion as well
*Cough*

And, as a total non sequitur and totally unsolicited, there is this:
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"

[KiwiNZ]

My viewing of the history channel gives me the impression that certain companies do operate via proxies. SCO is an example. Anyone who tries to convince me to the contrary has no chance of doing so.


*Cough*

And, as a total non sequitur and totally unsolicited, there is this:
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"

SCO were on their own, this is why they sunk under the cost of litigation.

Don' understand the significance of your second point, are you saying that Forum staff are not allowed an opinion.

Oh and my response was solicited please re read or read initially post #20

[vasa1]

SCO were on their own, this is why they sunk under the cost of litigation.

Don' understand the significance of your second point, are you saying that Forum staff are not allowed an opinion.

Oh and my response was solicited please re read or read initially post #20

If you believe SCO were on their own, you watch a different history channel than I. I watched the Baystar one, not the Baywatch one.

It makes me uncomfortable "arguing" or "disagreeing" with someone labelled "Admin". I would be happier if forum staff wishing to express opinions on non-forum matters had their own anonymous avatars. But that's just me expressing my opinion from way, way down the totem pole.

"unsolicited" refers to the quote I provided and to nothing else.

But, really, your views are most interesting. The latest being the one on SCO.

[KiwiNZ]

The History Channel, where the Japan Earthquake was caused by Aliens. The Word will end in 2012 and this guy is one of their experts..... :P

[KiwiNZ]

You are right MSFT, Apple, Oracle, Ford, GM, were backing SCO and funding the litigation.
Darryl McBride was an Alien.

[vasa1]

http://www.zdnet.com/news/fact-and-fiction-in-the-microsoft-sco-relationship/139743

[KiwiNZ]

A Blog about conspiracy theorist having conspiracy theory is not conclusive proof.

[vasa1]

A Blog about conspiracy theorist having conspiracy theory is not conclusive proof.
Neither are assertions to the contrary.

[robtygart]

The History Channel, where the Japan Earthquake was caused by Aliens.

No! it was caused by HAARP....

[j814wong]

Is it the fate of every thread in the Community Cafe to become a forum of conspiracy theorists from around the globe.

Who here would jump for a tablet/laptop convertible if it could run Ubuntu perfectly (Wireless, touchscreen, and all that). How important would the ability for Ubuntu to run on such devices (Or at least some of them) out of the box be for users who may not be fans of Windows 8?

I for one would love such a device and prefer it over any tablet or laptop on it's own.

[sffvba[e0rt]

Is it the fate of every thread in the Community Cafe to become a forum of conspiracy theorists from around the globe.

Who here would jump for a tablet/laptop convertible if it could run Ubuntu perfectly (Wireless, touchscreen, and all that). How important would the ability for Ubuntu to run on such devices (Or at least some of them) out of the box be for users who may not be fans of Windows 8?

I for one would love such a device and prefer it over any tablet or laptop on it's own.

I was waiting for such a device. Then I decided to give Android a go. Very happy I did.


404

[inobe]

Neither are assertions to the contrary.

It's almost a logical assumption without the conspiracy theorists jaw waging about it, Common sense makes us more of a believer without the in your face actual facts.

An example, the Wife is cheating, you catch her in the act, you divorce her, yet she wins alimony because you cannot convince the judge, insufficient proof!

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink it.

[ramsharan065]

If you see threat of Microsoft on Ubuntu in case of desktop, then you might/are true. But in case of server, I do not see any threat.

But there is no threat on Linux because http://www.muktware.com/941/microsoft-using-linux-kernel-windows-8

[kagz]

this windows issue will be the real test for freedom..and a better reason to love GNU/Linux..;)

[pr0misc]

I guess that people usually underestimate Microsoft for multiple reasons.

It's true that historically Microsoft, and Bill Gates, do not have a technical or ethical approach as, for instance, Linus had with Linux but the real deal is that Microsoft can position itself almost always as one of the may players on the segments that they invest to.

- PS3 hardware is superior but there is the Xbox360 on the market selling selling..

- Linux is superior (and OSX also) but let us count how many Windows boxes (and even servers!) are in the world selling selling..

- Android is great, iOS is wellspread, but now you already have people thinking about their mobile OS..

And the list goes on and on..

It's not really easy for a company to position itself on this key point in so many different marketing targets and technological segments.

Everyone talks about Apple this and Apple that, but truly speaking Microsoft competes and has much more success on a larger and wider range that them.

[thatguruguy]

It's almost a logical assumption without the conspiracy theorists jaw waging about it, Common sense makes us more of a believer without the in your face actual facts.

An example, the Wife is cheating, you catch her in the act, you divorce her, yet she wins alimony because you cannot convince the judge, insufficient proof!

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink it.

Interesting example, considering the fact that no-fault divorce is the law in all 50 states (as of 2010, when New York finally adopted it), which means allegations of fault (e.g., a cheating spouse) are completely immaterial. Alimony, property division and child support are based upon the relative financial standing of the parties, and have nothing to do with fault. Choose a different example.

[KiwiNZ]

It is simple, people will believe conspiracy over fact because conspiracy is more exciting.

[inobe]

Choose a different example.

Well, here's one, prices are sky rocketing at the gas pump, yet many accept the fact that they are being hosed, yet some believe it's the cost of demand.

[Paqman]

But there is no threat on Linux because http://www.muktware.com/941/microsoft-using-linux-kernel-windows-8

Seems totally legit.

[KiwiNZ]

Well, here's one, prices are sky rocketing at the gas pump, yet many accept the fact that they are being hosed, yet some believe it's the cost of demand.

Continuity of supply or uncertainty in the continuity of supply has an affect on price, that is free market. It is not a "fact that we are being hosed". Your example is erroneous.

[inobe]

Erroneous, Of course, however my point is, because we lack the burden of proof, many believe they are being hosed, but it cannot be proven.

logically with our own determinations, we conclude being hosed is a way of life, we accept it and move on, being that it is a free market, one of which Microsoft Corporation thrives in, is no different, Ultimately they will find a way to hose you.

urban defined

Hosed