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View Full Version : Has Ubuntu Passed OSX in Terms of Appearance and Usability?



mamamia88
August 25th, 2012, 03:12 PM
Based on screenshots posted on here and playing around with gnome-shell i have to say that linux has got to be close/surpassing apple in what they do best aka usability and a beautiful os. What are your guy's opinions on this?

MadmanRB
August 25th, 2012, 03:49 PM
Well both yes and no, it still needs some stability here and there and more GUI applications.

user1397
August 25th, 2012, 03:53 PM
dude, I like your blog

Bachstelze
August 25th, 2012, 03:53 PM
In some ways, yes. In others, no. For the no column, NetworkManager is a joke compared to OS X's network settings panel, and resuming a laptop from suspend mode still takes forever, among other things.

fluteflute
August 25th, 2012, 04:02 PM
I remember reading that Canonical's usability testing shows that for somebody who has used Windows, but not OS X or Ubuntu, Ubuntu is the easiest to use.

mamamia88
August 25th, 2012, 04:05 PM
dude, I like your blog

well thanks. always wanted to give it a try and for $26 i figured i'd try it.

mamamia88
August 25th, 2012, 04:18 PM
I remember reading that Canonical's usability testing shows that for somebody who has used Windows, but not OS X or Ubuntu, Ubuntu is the easiest to use.

I'd like to get kids to try them all and publish the results. But how would you change things up so that the results aren't biased against what the user tries first or last?

neu5eeCh
August 25th, 2012, 04:23 PM
No.

OSX is a desktop operating system. Unity isn't. Unity is a weird, neither here nor there, hodge podge. <troll>And, yes, I know that's a deliberate design decision, which is why I use XFCE. </troll>

Mikeb85
August 25th, 2012, 04:29 PM
In some ways, yes. In others, no. For the no column, NetworkManager is a joke compared to OS X's network settings panel, and resuming a laptop from suspend mode still takes forever, among other things.

Resuming my laptop from suspend on openSUSE 12.2 (RC2) takes less time than fully opening the lid... It suspends and resumes pretty much instantly.

mamamia88
August 25th, 2012, 04:48 PM
Resuming my laptop from suspend on openSUSE 12.2 (RC2) takes less time than fully opening the lid... It suspends and resumes pretty much instantly.

when i was using debian xfce it was almost instant. using ubuntu with gnome-shell right now and it takes a little longer but i almost never suspend it anyway. maybe the thread should have been titled "have modern linux desktop environments surpassed osx in terms of usability?" or at least tied it. Personally I think that gnome shell for a beginner would be perfect. It's beautiful and streamlined imo.

Bachstelze
August 25th, 2012, 05:49 PM
I remember reading that Canonical's usability testing shows that for somebody who has used Windows, but not OS X or Ubuntu, Ubuntu is the easiest to use.

A vendor conducting a study that concludes its own product is superior, that's rare...

MadmanRB
August 25th, 2012, 06:48 PM
when i was using debian xfce it was almost instant. using ubuntu with gnome-shell right now and it takes a little longer but i almost never suspend it anyway. maybe the thread should have been titled "have modern linux desktop environments surpassed osx in terms of usability?" or at least tied it. Personally I think that gnome shell for a beginner would be perfect. It's beautiful and streamlined imo.

No Gnome shell is terrible especially if you are a windows user.
It barely has any points of reference for a long time windows user who is used to traditional taskbars and menus.
I rather have a new user take on KDE or even unity as both have some obvious clues where to start off with.

KiwiNZ
August 25th, 2012, 06:55 PM
To answer the original question......no it has not. Will it? Probably not, not until there is a wider acceptance to change with in the current Linux user base.

mamamia88
August 25th, 2012, 07:02 PM
No Gnome shell is terrible especially if you are a windows user.
It barely has any points of reference for a long time windows user who is used to traditional taskbars and menus.
I rather have a new user take on KDE or even unity as both have some obvious clues where to start off with.
meh i'm talking about people who have never used a computer. and what is the first thing a person does when they try a new os? if they are anything like me they start clicking stuff to see what it does. if you stick with it for a few days it will become second nature. besides it's not that drastically different than what is out there now. It has somewhat of a start menu/dock it's just combined into one. and you can even separate it if you want. and besides windows users are used to going to a corner on a taskbar to access the start menu. when there is only one taskbar it shouldn't take them long to figure out where to click. no gnome-shell isn't very different it's just taking existing ideas and streamlining the whole process. i don't think you are giving people enough credit for being able to figure stuff out.

forrestcupp
August 25th, 2012, 07:12 PM
I just started using KDE, and in my opinion, it surpasses everything out there. It seems like KDE doesn't get any love at all, but in my opinion, it's light years ahead of everything else, including Windows and what I've seen of MacOS.

I used to really love on Gnome Shell, but after using KDE, Gnome Shell is like crap to me. It's come a long way since 4.0, which is the last time I tried it.

lucazade
August 25th, 2012, 07:14 PM
Is OSX easy to use or good looking?

Linux, and especially KDE, is way better than any other proprietary OS around... if you are a coder you can't choose anything else.


@forrestcupp
+1

KiwiNZ
August 25th, 2012, 07:21 PM
Is OSX easy to use or good looking?

Linux, and especially KDE, is way better than any other proprietary OS around... if you are a coder you can't choose anything else.


@forrestcupp
+1

OSX is very easy to use and has a very use able and GUI.

If KDE dropped the use of Crayola's it may improve it's aesthetics, as for use ability it is a mixed bag.

lucazade
August 25th, 2012, 07:28 PM
it is all about tastes.. I don't find OSX usable at all and with a grey mouse looking.
Even thinking to to inner stuff QT4 toolkit is what it makes wonderful.

lykwydchykyn
August 25th, 2012, 07:29 PM
Appearance is subjective. Usability depends on the user and the tasks being undertaken. After all, some of us consider Awesome, Openbox, or Xmonad more usable and attractive than Unity, Gnome3 or OSX.

mamamia88
August 25th, 2012, 07:32 PM
Appearance is subjective. Usability depends on the user and the tasks being undertaken. After all, some of us consider Awesome, Openbox, or Xmonad more usable and attractive than Unity, Gnome3 or OSX.

absolutely true. i should never have started this thread to be honest. it's just me personally who finds linux more attractive and usable than osx. but then again it better be. i chose my themes and icons, and shell extensions personally. i guess giving the user choice automatically makes it more usable for the user

neu5eeCh
August 25th, 2012, 07:42 PM
To answer the original question......no it has not. Will it? Probably not, not until there is a wider acceptance to change with in the current Linux user base.

What? :-?

Maybe the problem is not the trollish "wider acceptance of change", but that users simply find Unity less appealing in appearance and usability. At some point, KiwiNZ, after a DE has been out long enough, it has to start owning up to its problems and shortcomings and stop blaming the user base. Writing that people are "resistant to change", as though "change"were synonymous with "improvement" -- well -- that dog don't hunt no more. You just asserted that OSX exceeds Unity in appearance and usability. The MAC DE, paradigm, is essentially unchanged since the late 80's.

KiwiNZ
August 25th, 2012, 08:43 PM
What? :-?

Maybe the problem is not the trollish "wider acceptance of change", but that users simply find Unity less appealing in appearance and usability. At some point, KiwiNZ, after a DE has been out long enough, it has to start owning up to its problems and shortcomings and stop blaming the user base. Writing that people are "resistant to change", as though "change"were synonymous with "improvement" -- well -- that dog don't hunt no more. You just asserted that OSX exceeds Unity in appearance and usability. The MAC DE, paradigm, is essentially unchanged since the late 80's.

I have been doing this for many years and with every minute change or improvement we hear tears of anguish from those wanting to keep with an OS trapped in 90's. Unity is very very good and as it evolves it may surpass OSX and Windows.

Trollish?????? I guess it is only you that can critique,reference your post at #8.

neu5eeCh
August 25th, 2012, 09:00 PM
I have been doing this for many years and with every minute change or improvement we hear tears of anguish from those wanting to keep with an OS trapped in 90's.

So have I. And with every minute change and regression, I hear the same righteous pomposities from the other side. So what? The issue isn't whether folks "resist change", but whether the changes are a positive or a negative. Change does not intrinsically equal improvement. It's just fatuous to assume otherwise.


Trollish?????? I guess it is only you that can critique,reference your post at #8.

Yes, indeedy, Sir. And you will note that it was properly labeled.

jfmd
August 25th, 2012, 09:50 PM
I brought my wife a MBP and she had the hardest time doing basic tasks. She normally uses windows. She jumps on my Ubuntu box from time to time and never has any usability problems. So I say Yes Ubuntu has better usability then OSX. Also the MBP was returned after a few days because she was just not happy with how OSX worked and did not want to learn how to use it, plus some compatibility issues with her works software. She is happy with W7.

sffvba[e0rt
August 25th, 2012, 10:23 PM
... Ymmv ...


404

forrestcupp
August 26th, 2012, 02:17 AM
If KDE dropped the use of Crayola's it may improve it's aesthetics, as for use ability it is a mixed bag.I don't really think it has a Crayola look anymore. Definitely not like it used to in its 3.x days. I hadn't tried KDE since 4.0 came out, and I was truly blown away with 4.8. I think that aesthetically, it beats everything else out there by a mile.


... Ymmv ...


404
True.

DoubleClicker
August 26th, 2012, 02:31 AM
I brought my wife a MBP and she had the hardest time doing basic tasks. She normally uses windows. She jumps on my Ubuntu box from time to time and never has any usability problems. So I say Yes Ubuntu has better usability then OSX. Also the MBP was returned after a few days because she was just not happy with how OSX worked and did not want to learn how to use it, plus some compatibility issues with her works software. She is happy with W7.
You are confusing more usable with more familiar. Macs are only difficult to people who are already entrenched in another paradigm. Ubuntu is closer in paradigm to windows, which she is familiar with, than OSX is.

Give 1000 computer virgins OSX; 1000 computer virgins MS Windows; 1000 computer virgins Ubuntu. then after a month see which group has the highest number who are proficient in it's usage. That's how to test usability.

jfmd
August 26th, 2012, 02:43 AM
You are confusing more usable with more familiar. Macs are only difficult to people who are already entrenched in another paradigm. Ubuntu is closer in paradigm to windows, which she is familiar with, than OSX is.

Give 1000 computer virgins OSX; 1000 computer virgins MS Windows; 1000 computer virgins Ubuntu. then after a month see which group has the highest number who are proficient in it's usage. That's how to test usability.

Good point. So where do we find computer virgins nowadays? My 2 year old took to Windows with no problem, too bad I didn't have OSX to test out on him.

mamamia88
August 26th, 2012, 05:51 AM
Good point. So where do we find computer virgins nowadays? My 2 year old took to Windows with no problem, too bad I didn't have OSX to test out on him.
very good point. i think we have gotten to the point that all 3 are so usable that it almost doesn't matter. the only time it would really matter is when even veteran users stumble over easy tasks. which is why i find it funny when long time pc users switch to mac and then claim it's so much easier to use. really easier to use than the system you have mastered? that's like taking up a second language and then claiming it was easier to learn than your first language.

kio_http
August 26th, 2012, 07:35 AM
A better question would be has Unity/ KDE/ Gnome-shell surpassed OS X.

In my opinion they all have flaws. KDE works best for me expecially with the recent performance and bug fixes but still has a few annoyances, like some configuration settings like that of konverstaion need to be smaller or have scrollbars and tabs to organised stuff, system settings needs to be better organised for new users (I am familiar with it but others are not)and the taskbar thumnails need to work better; sometimes windows are blank and after closing with the X on the thumnail, the window closes but an empty thumbnail square remains until you hover away.

fluteflute
August 27th, 2012, 11:52 AM
A vendor conducting a study that concludes its own product is superior, that's rare...Not when they admit that for past versions of their software it wasn't like this...

I think it's fair to say that Canonical take usability pretty seriously. e.g. see this http://design.canonical.com/brand/blog_downloads/20110426%20Unity%20Benchmarking%20April/Unity%20Benchmark%20Testing%20-%20April%202011.pdf

MadmanRB
August 27th, 2012, 12:15 PM
Not when they admit that for past versions of their software it wasn't like this...

I think it's fair to say that Canonical take usability pretty seriously. e.g. see this http://design.canonical.com/brand/blog_downloads/20110426%20Unity%20Benchmarking%20April/Unity%20Benchmark%20Testing%20-%20April%202011.pdf

Indeed as despite my misgivings about unity, in terms of usability it has improved greatly since that test was taken.

TeamRocket1233c
August 27th, 2012, 12:25 PM
I'd like to get kids to try them all and publish the results. But how would you change things up so that the results aren't biased against what the user tries first or last?

Well, how 'bout getting your school district to do an Edubuntu trial with a couple of the schools from the elementary wing and a couple of the schools from the secondary wing and seeing how the kids like it? ;)

BigSilly
August 27th, 2012, 03:13 PM
Indeed as despite my misgivings about unity, in terms of usability it has improved greatly since that test was taken.

I'll say. Just put it on the missus' laptop and she's massively impressed with it. It seems to fit all form factors really well, much more so than say Windows 8, which to me looks a terrible kludge on anything other than touchscreen.

Ubuntu is pretty stunning these days imho, and I'm glad they went down the route they did.

kio_http
August 27th, 2012, 05:10 PM
OS X is not usable. I dislike many small but important things about it that most users who just want a shiny apple logo do not notice.

E.g (by default no third party stuff) If you have a dual monitor setup and have an application window at the bottom right of the 2nd monitor, you have to move the mouse all the way up to the top corner of the other monitor to use the menu.

I'm also not a huge fan of the dock.

Apple's walled garden just doesn't work for me; I do not want a mac to make an iOS app nor do I want to be bullied into buying new hardware to run the latest OS X when theoretically the machine meets system requirements but Apple won't make drivers and just wants you to buy a new mac.

vasa1
August 27th, 2012, 05:42 PM
absolutely true. i should never have started this thread to be honest. ...
De gustibus non est disputandum ;)

BigCityCat
August 27th, 2012, 07:44 PM
Unity and gnome can't even round the corners on window decorations. I would say Kubuntu has.

TheMTtakeover
August 27th, 2012, 10:11 PM
Honestly I don't think so. Don't get me wrong they aren't far off but OS X just has the buttery yet creamy beautifulness to it.

neu5eeCh
August 28th, 2012, 12:52 AM
... not do I want to be bullied into buying new hardware to run the latest OS X when theoretically the machine meets system requirements but Apple won't make drivers and just wants you to buy a new mac.


BING ---------[Insert Expletive]---------- GO

This is the reason I dropped Apple back in 1992. This has always been their modus operandi. Apple's products are the poster children for built-in obsolescence.

mamamia88
August 28th, 2012, 05:58 AM
BING ---------[Insert Expletive]---------- GO

This is the reason I dropped Apple back in 1992. This has always been their modus operandi. Apple's products are the poster children for built-in obsolescence.

no the problem with trying to make money on an os is that in order to entice a person to upgrade they have to keep adding features that overtime make the system more bloated. meaning you will eventually have to upgrade your hardware to be able to run the new os or make do with the old one. built in obsolescence is a problem in all industry to be honest. after all the whole business model is based on continuous sales.