lubuntu and xubuntu 12.10 non-pae kernel

[linuxusersince2008]

as you may know non.pae kernel will no longer be supported in 12.10, so i decided to open this thread. if you still use a non-pae system please post it here maybe kernel dev will look at this thread and reconsider removing? and please keep this thread open.:popcorn:):P

[wildmanne39]

Hi, this issue has already been decided and is now moot.

Dev's do not read the forum's so it doe's no good to post in the forum on dev issue's.
Thanks

[cariboo]

This really isn't a support question, so moved to the Cafe.

The developers don't as a rule read the forum, so this is really the wrong place for this.

You'd be better off adding your voice to a bug like #1029031. Add a compelling reason why you think there is a need for a non-pae kernel, not just that because you have an older system there is a need for one.

[linuxusersince2008]

i can understand removing non-pae on kubuntu and ubuntu since there bloated but xubuntu and lubuntu i can't agree with. i guess i'll be going with wattos or peppermint.
the last choice is windows 2000/xp.

p.s i don't think this is going to help ubuntu draw more users into there os anyway they already shot them self in the foot with unity, i guess they like pain. oh well moving on.:mad:
:(

[mastablasta]

i guess i'll be going with wattos or peppermint.
the last choice is windows 2000/xp.


antix should probably also work

[Dragonbite]

I had to use the non-PAE kernel on my laptop and was lucky enough to find a link to somebody who re-spun the Ubuntu 12.04 CD with it.

I know I am on the tail-end of technology, but that doesn't stop it from being annoying as my systems feel to be squeezed out with each release!

[linuxusersince2008]

i feel that ubuntu will be too bloated to run unless your running a core 2 duo with 4gb of ram soon. i don't like thrown a system that still works away, antix doesn't work for me i can't install firefox?

[vexorian]

i feel that ubuntu will be too bloated to run unless your running a core 2 duo with 4gb of ram soon. i don't like thrown a system that still works away, antix doesn't work for me i can't install firefox?
Pae is available in things since early as pentium III. I mean... really.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You cannot stick to old hardware for life without giving up new software. There is a limit. Eventually old hardware reaches a state that it can only run old software.

And 12.04 is LTS , that means you will have non-pae kernel support for 5 years... So, why want 12.10? Only explanation would be that you like cutting edge software. But that's a contradiction with not wanting cutting edge hardware :/

[cecilpierce]

Many people don't have the money for new things and the prices here are going up and up.

[Dragonbite]

i feel that ubuntu will be too bloated to run unless your running a core 2 duo with 4gb of ram soon. i don't like thrown a system that still works away, antix doesn't work for me i can't install firefox?

Funny.. I'm running Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on a Pentium M (1 core at ~ 1.8 Ghz) with 2 GB of RAM (max available) and it works pretty good.

Only issues I have is opening the dash, Alt=Tab and HUD all take 2-3 seconds to open up. Otherwise it works just fine.

I also run Windows 7 on it and it is usable.

EDIT: But it cannot handle the PAE kernel.

So things don't go flying at mach 11, but they also aren't so slow they grind to a halt or make me get coffee while I wait. I've had systems so old that this scenario was accurate but not with my PentM/2GB ram system.

Of course it runs nicer on my old dual-core w/6GB or RAM and that one is maybe 5 years old (+/-)? This one can handle the PAE Kernel at least.

Can't complain... I spent a total of $20 for both of them (actually, $20 for the laptop, the desktop was free). I have bought only 2 computers new; one in 2000 and my wife's last December. The rest have all been corporate toss-away that run just fine.

[vexorian]

Many people don't have the money for new things and the prices here are going up and up.
We are talking about processors older than pentium II!

The lowest end current day netbooks have 400% more processing power than that. (Figure completely made up, but really)

[Lucradia]

Pae is available in things since early as pentium III. I mean... really.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You cannot stick to old hardware for life without giving up new software. There is a limit. Eventually old hardware reaches a state that it can only run old software.

And 12.04 is LTS , that means you will have non-pae kernel support for 5 years... So, why want 12.10? Only explanation would be that you like cutting edge software. But that's a contradiction with not wanting cutting edge hardware :/

Furthermore, Windows 98 SE supported PAE. Reason why people don't really care for PAE, esp. developers, is because PAE is basically a hack, it was meant to extend the life of 32-Bit hardware during the uprising of 64-Bit Hardware. Most people use 64-Bit now, so the era of PAE is coming to a close sadly, so even if you have PAE, I'd sooner recommend a 64-Bit system.

[linuxusersince2008]

there one video on youtube that i guy runs vista ultimate on a pentium 3 computer. http://youtu.be/Mi8AaI3yWVs and it runs very well even a celeron can run vista? http://youtu.be/ghmSQHE8F8Y
even a pentium 2 http://youtu.be/YETTmAf8clQ so you tell me why can't ubuntu run on old hardware and i don't believe end of life stuff. as long as it works and pc is useful and i like to keep these things out of landfills.;)

[linuxusersince2008]

P.S you may not realize this but your giving windows vista a good name really LOL:guitar:

[vexorian]

there one video on youtube that i guy runs vista ultimate on a pentium 3 computer. http://youtu.be/Mi8AaI3yWVs and it runs very well even a celeron can run vista? http://youtu.be/ghmSQHE8F8Y
even a pentium 2 http://youtu.be/YETTmAf8clQ so you tell me why can't ubuntu run on old hardware and i don't believe end of life stuff. as long as it works and pc is useful and i like to keep these things out of landfills.;)
Windows vista is already an old version of windows. :/

Windows vista was released in 2007. The ubuntu equivalent would be 7.04 or 7.10.

So, the question is, Does Gutsy Gibbon run in a Pentium III?

The answer is of course it does. Because even Quetzal, Ubuntu 12.10 (Contemporary to windows 8 ) will still run in a Pentium III and in a Pentium II, as even Pentium IIs support PAE.

[linuxusersince2008]

vista my be old but it's called the resource hog. i ran ubuntu 12.04 on my amd sempron 3400+ with 2gb of ram nvidia geforce 6150le and ubuntu uses over 500mb on idle i don't why but it does.

[vexorian]

vista my be old but it's called the resource hog. i ran ubuntu 12.04 on my amd sempron 3400+ with 2gb of ram nvidia geforce 6150le and ubuntu uses over 500mb on idle i don't why but it does.
Vista was a resource hog in 2007. We are in 2012 now.

Worse, when I take a look to your videos, the Vista in the Pentium 3 computer is (obviously) stripped down of tons of things, Aero is gone (which was the reason Vista was called a resource hog). Resolution is very low. Etc, etc. I bet he had to disable 99% of the services.

So, I think the question would be. Why are you are comparing a 2012 OS with all features enabled with a 2007 OS with most features stripped down?

[linuxusersince2008]

vista is in fact still a resource hog even 7 requires a lot.

[KiwiNZ]

vista is in fact still a resource hog even 7 requires a lot.

You mean it fully utilises the hardware resources available, that is why one has the resources.

[jfloydb]

as you may know non.pae kernel will no longer be supported in 12.10, so i decided to open this thread. if you still use a non-pae system please post it here maybe kernel dev will look at this thread and reconsider removing? and please keep this thread open.:popcorn:):P

Forgive me for asking: but, what does this mean for the future of xubuntu (or lubuntu)? Will these .buntu versions still be viable into the future? Or is this strictly a hardware issue? Unity has already knocked me off the Ubuntu wagon; I do not wish to lose the xubuntu option as well. Thanks...

[cariboo]

@linuxusersince2008, I've pointed you towards documentation that will allow you to use Quantal on your equipment in another thread. How's it coming, have you had any success compiling a custom kernel?

One thing I didn't add, is that compiling a custom kernel, allows you to compile in only the drivers you need, meaning a smaller kernel, and less resource usage.

[CharlesA]

You mean it fully utilises the hardware resources available, that is why one has the resources.
Yep. Why bother having a beefy computer if you aren't going to utilize it to it's full potential.

[linuxusersince2008]

from were i understand lubuntu and xubuntu will have pae enabled sadly. and windows vista and 7 are resource hogs my mom has an hp laptop with a amd athlon x2 @2.0ghz 3gb of ram 160gb hd and onboard nvidia geforce 8100m if remember right? windows 7 home premium runs o.k with firefox if you have one tap open but once you have more then that, it runs like a tired dog on a hot day really ubuntu runs just as bad too, not to mention kubuntu.

[linuxusersince2008]

@cariboo907i really don't understand how to do it?

[Dragonbite]

@linuxusersince2008, I've pointed you towards documentation that will allow you to use Quantal on your equipment in another thread. How's it coming, have you had any success compiling a custom kernel?

One thing I didn't add, is that compiling a custom kernel, allows you to compile in only the drivers you need, meaning a smaller kernel, and less resource usage.

Isn't this the whole advantage Gentoo touts as their advantage, about only compiling what you need for your specific system?

How difficult is it to compile your own kernel? I see things like bluetooth being included in my installs when I know the computer doesn't even HAVE bluetooth (and 99.9% likely never will).

I wonder what else I could trim.

[linuxusersince2008]

i installe kiwi linux it's runs way better.:guitar:

[vexorian]

Isn't this the whole advantage Gentoo touts as their advantage, about only compiling what you need for your specific system?

How difficult is it to compile your own kernel? I see things like bluetooth being included in my installs when I know the computer doesn't even HAVE bluetooth (and 99.9% likely never will).

I wonder what else I could trim.
Trimming unused hardware modules and services allowed me to make windows XP run flawlessly on an ASUS eee 700 (The first netbook, incredibly bad performance).

I cannot imagine what a trimmed down Linux could do on modern hardware. I guess huge risk of creating black holes due to excessive speed.

[oliverjames]

I encountered the same issue trying to install Xubuntu on an old laptop. I've had to go with 12.04.

Any alternative might be to use Puppy Linux. There are several different flavours including the latest Puppy 4.5 which is based on the Ubuntu Precise repositories. Plus it's fast, light and ludicrously easy to administer.

[Z80A]

Kind of sad; my HP nc8000 laptop has reached its last Linux installation (Pentium M and no PAE). I could accept that mainstream Ubuntu releases would eventually be incompatible with my nc8000.

But I always thought that Xubuntu, well at least Lubuntu, would be suitable for this type of PC. Having in mind how Lubuntu is being profiled as the Ubuntu flavor for low-spec'ed machines with a minimum of 128 Mbytes, the choice of only supporting PAE capable machines is simply wrong, in my book.

Linux used to be something that would also get good performance out of "yesterdays" hardware... :(

Anyway my nc8000 will now stick to 12.04, and will be supported until 2017. Not that bad... :)

[Dragonbite]

Kind of sad; my HP nc8000 laptop has reached its last Linux installation (Pentium M and no PAE). I could accept that mainstream Ubuntu releases would eventually be incompatible with my nc8000.

But I always thought that Xubuntu, well at least Lubuntu, would be suitable for this type of PC. Having in mind how Lubuntu is being profiled as the Ubuntu flavor for low-spec'ed machines with a minimum of 128 Mbytes, the choice of only supporting PAE capable machines is simply wrong, in my book.

Linux used to be something that would also get good performance out of "yesterdays" hardware... :(

Anyway my nc8000 will now stick to 12.04, and will be supported until 2017. Not that bad... :)

Linux is, just not Ubuntu.

Give any number of the other distributions a drive and see which ones will work. My laptop has had no problem with openSUSE or Fedora currently, and that isn't including the other more low-spec systems.

Funny, Windows 7 works on it just fine.

[pqwoerituytrueiwoq]

as you may know non.pae kernel will no longer be supported in 12.10, so i decided to open this thread. if you still use a non-pae system please post it here maybe kernel dev will look at this thread and reconsider removing? and please keep this thread open.:popcorn:):P
this only applies to 32bit right, otherwise that is really dumb
i like my 64bit non-pae kernel it can use my 12gb of ram better than a 32bit pae
for 32bit uses i see no reason not to make them use a pae kernel, anything over the 32bit limit just takes longer to access than the rest of the ram

[deadflowr]

this only apples to 32bit right, otherwise that is really dumb
i like my 64bit non-pae kernel it can use my 12gb of ram better than a 32bit pae
for 32bit uses i see no reason not to make them use a pae kernel, anything over the 32bit limit just takes longer to access than the rest of the ram

Yes. Only effects 32bit.
Did you really write apples?
Keep it, it's funny.

[Dragonbite]

If I cannot get a non-PAE kernel version of Ubuntu then it looks like Ubuntu's at the end-of-the-road for my laptop.

Fedora or openSUSE may be a viable alternative, at least for the meantime until I eventually get something more modern and up-to-date. Though I hear even openSUSE may start moving this way too.

[mips]

If I cannot get a non-PAE kernel version of Ubuntu then it looks like Ubuntu's at the end-of-the-road for my laptop.


Install from the minimal/net or lubuntu images and then add ubuntu, it's a longer way of doing things.

[Dragonbite]

Install from the minimal/net or lubuntu images and then add ubuntu, it's a longer way of doing things.

Is there a meta-package for the Ubuntu desktop? Something like "apt-get install ubuntu-desktop" and it gives you Unity, LibreOffice, Thunderbird and everything else that comes default?

If so, that may work.

[CharlesA]

Is there a meta-package for the Ubuntu desktop? Something like "apt-get install ubuntu-desktop" and it gives you Unity, LibreOffice, Thunderbird and everything else that comes default?

If so, that may work.
Yes, that is the meta package to install ubuntu desktop. ;)

[mips]

What CharlesA said ^^

[Dragonbite]

Ok, I downloaded the mini.iso and threw it on a live USB stick and tried booting up into it.

It returned an error about the kernel looking for a missing component
PAE

So things are not looking so good anymore.

[linuxusersince2008]

will i'm using wattos r6 and it's treating me very well but i know soon i will have to use a different distro like tinycore.

[mips]

Ok, I downloaded the mini.iso and threw it on a live USB stick and tried booting up into it.

It returned an error about the kernel looking for a missing component
PAE

So things are not looking so good anymore.

Sorry then I was mistaken, I always thought the minimal image had a non-pae kernel.

Well then it narrows it down to lubuntu & xubuntu, unfortunately you don't get the alternate images anymore so you can't do a base install, you would have to install the entire distro and then remove all the extra stuff.

[Dragonbite]

I did end up going to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/930447/comments/84 (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/930447/comments/84) and downloading that link and it works for 12.04. I think it has been linked to previously, but I saw the "bug" part and figured it was just a bug report. Didn't realize it had a link in it too.

I am not trying to hijack the thread, but I am trying to figure out if I can blacklist upgrading the kernel only and try to run a 12.04 to 12.10 upgrade. If you have any ideas, don't derail this thread, I started one elsewhere and haven't gotten any responses yet ( http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2081347 (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2081347) ).

[aussielife]

I used this custom made non-pae kernel when I upgraded my wife's Pentium M laptop from Ubuntu 12.04 to 12.10

http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~webtom/+junk/linux-image-i386-non-pae/files

[Dragonbite]

I used this custom made non-pae kernel when I upgraded my wife's Pentium M laptop from Ubuntu 12.04 to 12.10

http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~webtom/+junk/linux-image-i386-non-pae/files

Any good documentation on how to do that?

[aussielife]

Any good documentation on how to do that? Not being a very technically advanced Ubuntu user, I just followed the instructions in the README file. Specifically, I followed step 1.6 in the file, by downloading the linux-image and headers packages, and then installing them using the two commands given, namely
dpkg -i linux-image-[version]-wt-non-pae_[version]_i386.deb and
dpkg -i linux-headers-[version]-wt-non-pae_[version]_i386.deb

and then rebooting.
Everything went without a glitch.
I hope this is helpful.

[abizrcmplx]

Any good documentation on how to do that?

Here you go.

http://www.webupd8.org/2012/11/how-to-install-ubuntu-1210-on-non-pae.html

[mideal]

Hi, this issue has already been decided and is now moot.

Dev's do not read the forum's so it doe's no good to post in the forum on dev issue's.
Thanks

Hi Wild Man!

Is there any hidden meaning in the way you are setting otherwise senseless apostrophs?

I mean, just because you are located in Roswell....8-)

[CharlesA]

Hi Wild Man!

Is there any hidden meaning in the way you are setting otherwise senseless apostrophs?

I mean, just because you are located in Roswell....8-)

Doubt it. The post in question is over 6 months old and grammar might not be their strong point. Doesn't mean you need to point it out. :)