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vasa1
July 30th, 2012, 04:25 AM
Jury selection is supposed to start today.
Since I'm biased, I like the coverage by www.groklaw.net. For those going the other way, www.fosspatents.com should keep them happy.

KiwiNZ
July 30th, 2012, 04:39 AM
It is the most boring, rediculous and definately childish show current.

davetv
July 30th, 2012, 06:21 AM
Yeah KiwiNZ ... agreed. I read /. a lot and am now filtering "apple" out.

"Patents stifle innovation" vs "Patents promote development" ... boring.

mr john
July 30th, 2012, 06:30 AM
dead horse needs flogged no more :-)

vasa1
July 30th, 2012, 07:23 AM
It is the most boring, rediculous and definately childish show current.
But I learnt a new word: dispositive.

A magistrate judge’s order is dispositive if it “conclusively determine[s] the disputed question . . . [that] is properly considered a claim or defense of a party.”

KiwiNZ
July 30th, 2012, 07:31 AM
Here is another new word for you.......Applesamsungalgated

vasa1
July 30th, 2012, 07:41 AM
Here is another new word for you.......Applesamsungalgated
Me thinks it would flow better (even after a liquid lunch) if the second g is left out.

Second g from the left; you downunder people are so different I thought I'd be specific ;)

vasa1
July 30th, 2012, 07:42 AM
And if Apple wins, I'm going to look like this:

KiwiNZ
July 30th, 2012, 09:04 AM
Not worth high blood pressure

sffvba[e0rt
July 30th, 2012, 09:10 AM
Thread moved to Recurring Discussions.


404

Gone fishing
July 30th, 2012, 09:15 AM
Boring and certanly childish, however it is also very important.


If Apple and Microsoft have their way, there will be no independent OS development to report on.

This stuff will define the future of this industry. Deal with it.

http://www.osnews.com/comments/26229?view=nested&perpage=10&order=o&sort=&threshold=0

KiwiNZ
July 30th, 2012, 09:54 AM
Whilst I find this whole endless litigation tiresome and annoying I do not believe it will trigger OS Armageddon.

I think both Apple and Samsung should be declared as vexatious litigants.

Gone fishing
July 30th, 2012, 10:13 AM
I do not believe it will trigger OS Armageddon

That is is your belief - and I too, think that common-sense will prevail in the end. However, implicit in your statement is that it could "trigger OS Armageddon". Certainly some players are intent on abusing the legal / patent system to entrench their dominant market positions against competition.

My opinion is if knowledgeable and aware citizens reject this abuse and support organisations that campaign for openness and the right to innovate, develop free software etc then "OS Armagedon" will not happen. If we stick our heads in the sand it might. I would hate to see Ubuntu ended because Canonical could not afford to defend Unity against spurious patent trolling and legal nonsense by Apple

KiwiNZ
July 30th, 2012, 10:22 AM
That is is your belief - and I too, think that commonsense will prevail in the end. However, implicit in your statment is that it could "trigger OS Armageddon". Certanly some players are intent on abusing the legal / patent system to entrench their dominant market posistions against competition.

My opinion is if knowledagable and aware citizens regect this abuse and support organisations that campaign for openness and the right to innovate, develop free saftware etc then "OS Armagedon" will not happen. If we stick our heads in the sand it might. I would hate to see Ubuntu ended because Cannonical could not afford to defend Unity against spurious patent trolling and legal nonsense by Apple.

Free software is not the answer, free software is part of the equation along with non free software, open software and proprietary software. The inventions are not the problem the management of the inventions is the problem.

Gone fishing
July 30th, 2012, 11:08 AM
I never said Free software is the answer (to what question?) - I believe Free software has an important place, but people should have the right to develop proprietary software. The abuse of patents is a threat to both to small and medium sized companies trying to develop innovative proprietary software and free software in general including Ubuntu.

Innovation is a good thing and it should not be stifled by large unethical corporations using their dominant position or vast revenue to subvert the legal systems to their ends and that is what is being attempted - hopefully common-sense will prevail and this will fail.

KiwiNZ
July 30th, 2012, 11:21 AM
I never said Free software is the answer (to what question?) - I believe Free software has an important place, but people should have the right to develop proprietary software. The abuse of patents is a threat to both to small and medium sized companies trying to develop innovative proprietary software and free software in general including Ubuntu.

Innovation is a good thing and it should not be stifled by large unethical corporations using their dominant position or vast revenue to subvert the legal systems to their ends and that is what is being attempted - hopefully common-sense will prevail and this will fail.

Common sense in a court room, no such thing. It's down to who has the best actors and most proficient liars.

sffvba[e0rt
July 30th, 2012, 11:23 AM
I never said Free software is the answer (to what question?)

The answer we got, 42... but like you said the question still eludes us ;)


404

KiwiNZ
July 30th, 2012, 11:28 AM
The question is 'what a the best OS's for the future?'
The answer is....... All of them.

The task at hand, get the word out to the Courts.

vasa1
July 30th, 2012, 11:34 AM
Common sense in a court room, no such thing. It's down to who has the best actors and most proficient liars.

I disagree. Judge Alsop in O v/s G was brilliant.

sffvba[e0rt
July 30th, 2012, 11:56 AM
I disagree. Judge Alsop in O v/s G was brilliant.

http://www.worldpulse.com/files/upload/6129/lady_justice.jpg


404

Gone fishing
July 30th, 2012, 12:50 PM
Common sense in a court room, no such thing. It's down to who has the best actors and most proficient liars.

In that case the danger of "OS Armageddon" is great, as the wealthiest corporations, with the most money to spend on lawyers are intent on abuse. The danger to Ubuntu is very real. Hence even though it is childish and boring we should take interest and support organisations struggling to preserve our right to use our computers and develop software if we wish.

However, I am less pessimistic at its best the law can use its common sense that is supposed to be its purpose.

vasa1
July 30th, 2012, 01:35 PM
http://www.worldpulse.com/files/upload/6129/lady_justice.jpg


404
Exactly. Glad you agree ...

Since the 15th century, Lady Justice has often been depicted wearing a blindfold. The blindfold represents objectivity, in that justice is or should be meted out objectively, without fear or favour, regardless of identity, money, power, or weakness; blind justice and impartiality.

sffvba[e0rt
July 30th, 2012, 01:39 PM
Exactly. Glad you agree ...

Ah...

I was going for blind and easily deceived. But that works too.


404

vasa1
July 30th, 2012, 06:54 PM
Ah...

I was going for blind and easily deceived. But that works too.


404
Then there's also this:

vasa1
July 30th, 2012, 06:57 PM
Anyway, one witness Samsung wanted to get is "unavailable":
http://allthingsd.com/20120729/key-witness-no-longer-works-at-apple-doesnt-want-to-testify-at-samsung-trial/
Cute.

KiwiNZ
July 30th, 2012, 07:50 PM
The Judge has already made her position clear in this case.

vasa1
July 31st, 2012, 04:46 AM
The Judge has already made her position clear in this case.
That is being appealed.

Another site for coverage: http://allthingsd.com/20120730/as-apple-and-samsung-head-to-court-heres-a-handy-cheat-sheet/

levlaz
July 31st, 2012, 04:49 AM
Everyone should watch this. (http://patentabsurdity.com/) Especially the executives at Apple, Samsung and every other software company.

vasa1
July 31st, 2012, 11:24 AM
Reuters gets to publish an agreement between IBM and Samsung over opposition by IBM.

sffvba[e0rt
July 31st, 2012, 11:31 AM
Everyone should watch this. (http://patentabsurdity.com/) Especially the executives at Apple, Samsung and every other software company.

The system is broken and has brought many of the companies to a state in which there is little they can do but do what they are doing... http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/07/samsung-chief-product-officer-q-and-a/


404

vasa1
July 31st, 2012, 11:42 AM
This link (http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/12/02/apple-samsung-secrecy-idINDEE7B00QR20111202) has some background on sealing documents and why or when it may or may not be a good thing.

... and interest groups such as Public Citizen and the American Civil Liberties Union frequently intervene in cases where major records are sealed.

For their part, investors look at briefs and filings to see what kind of effect a patent is having on the marketplace, professors study them for novel legal theories, and lawyers track them for developments in intellectual property law. ...

vasa1
July 31st, 2012, 12:28 PM
Everyone should watch this. (http://patentabsurdity.com/) Especially the executives at Apple, Samsung and every other software company.

Watched it :(

vasa1
July 31st, 2012, 01:58 PM
Everyone should watch this. (http://patentabsurdity.com/) Especially the executives at Apple, Samsung and every other software company.
And this may be worth reading:
How A (Non-Apple) U.S. Patent Might Just Change the World (http://www.forbes.com/sites/insidearm/2012/07/31/how-a-non-apple-u-s-patent-might-just-change-the-world/)

But the IP announced today extends ... to ... the organization, sorting, ranking, valuing, and posting of debt and accounts receivable across all U.S. consumer markets ...

vasa1
August 1st, 2012, 07:03 PM
Samsung defended its decision to post stuff online that wasn't allowed as evidence. Interestingly, they cited the judge's desire for openness:

"Far from violating any order, Samsung's transmission to the public of public information disclosed in pretrial filings is entirely consistent with this Court's statements" that the "workings of litigation must be open to public view," the declaration by Mr. Quinn states.

Mikeb85
August 1st, 2012, 07:34 PM
The current trial more than confirms suspicions that the US court/patent system is being used for US protectionism rather than actually enforcing any laws... The trial is a complete farce, heavily slanted in Apple's favour.

No wonder Samsung is resorting to releasing it's materials to the public...

vasa1
August 6th, 2012, 06:46 AM
First article I've come across that tries to explain why Samsung was late in filing what it intended to use as evidence:
A Trick For Understanding Trials - Apple's Trial Brief as text, and Trade Dress (http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120805030730169)

On a side-note, when the judge on the other side of the pond said Samsung's stuff wasn't as cool and dismissed Apple's claim, he made constant reference to the "informed user (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=12120970&postcount=20)". Not seeing much of that so far in the present proceedings ;)

vasa1
August 17th, 2012, 07:58 AM
Judge wants submissions in Word or WordPerfect: https://twitter.com/jimprosser/status/235158451590926337

Mikeb85
August 17th, 2012, 08:50 AM
Well, even though Samsung did a terrible job of convincing anyone that they didn't copy Apple, they did a fantastic job of showing prior art, and potentially invalidating Apple's patents. If it goes to a jury, it could potentially not only hurt Apple's future plans for litigation, but set a precedent for invalidating questionable software patents...

aysiu
August 17th, 2012, 04:06 PM
Well, even though Samsung did a terrible job of convincing anyone that they didn't copy Apple, they did a fantastic job of showing prior art, and potentially invalidating Apple's patents. If it goes to a jury, it could potentially not only hurt Apple's future plans for litigation, but set a precedent for invalidating questionable software patents...
This sounds about right, but that's the closest to the truth: Samsung did, in fact, violate Apple's patents... it's just those patents are ridiculous for anyone to own.

VTPoet
August 19th, 2012, 04:53 PM
Jury selection is supposed to start today.
Since I'm biased, I like the coverage by www.groklaw.net (http://www.groklaw.net). For those going the other way, www.fosspatents.com (http://www.fosspatents.com) should keep them happy.

Just noticed that over at OS News (http://www.osnews.com/comments/26279) that, as they put it, Oracle retained "Florian Mueller of the popular blog FOSS Patents as a consultant." I don't doubt, at all, that Mueller is also on Apple's payroll (at least if he's as smart as he seems).

vasa1
October 18th, 2012, 12:33 PM
Apple Inc lost its appeal (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/18/us-apple-samsung-idUSBRE89H0DW20121018) of a ruling that its rival Samsung's Galaxy tablet computer did not copy Apple's registered tablet designs in a British court on Thursday ...

The Court of Appeal upheld a British High Court judgment that despite some similarities, Samsung did not infringe Apple's design, in part because its products were "not as cool". ...
The company has been instructed to run ads saying that Samsung did not copy its registered tablet designs, both on its website and in selected newspapers.
Apple can appeal to the Supreme Court.

vasa1
October 19th, 2012, 07:32 AM
More details here:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/18/apple_loses_uk_appeal_ipad/

I appreciate the way the British Courts consider the "informed user".

MikeCyber
October 19th, 2012, 08:11 AM
Yes that's the difference between British and Californian.

In Europe it's considered to ridiculous, while in California they get a penalty of more than 1 billion $.-

The patent laws are sickening and outdated from 18th century.

vasa1
October 24th, 2012, 04:07 AM
Talk about bouncing back:
the notorious rubber-band patent it's been going after Android with, has just been tentatively rejected by the USPTO on reexamination.
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20121023121611827

krishna.988
October 24th, 2012, 07:38 AM
Apple deserves the win.. I think they are right..Since samsung has copied a lot of patents and UI designs..which apple had from long before..

Mikeb85
October 25th, 2012, 02:47 PM
Apple deserves the win.. I think they are right..Since samsung has copied a lot of patents and UI designs..which apple had from long before..

Samsung copied the design.

The patents were bogus to begin with.

Allowing Apple to 'patent' what they did, is bad for the entire industry, and will hurt competition.

I would like to see non-Samsung Android manufacturers get some more mind and market share - especially HTC - they've been at the forefront of every new technology, their build quality is superb, yet they get no love...

vasa1
November 4th, 2012, 03:44 AM
Apple rocks!
According to this (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57544802-37/apple-accused-of-hiding-u.k-samsung-apology-with-code/), they've apologized the way the Courts wanted, but one has to scroll down to see the apology. IOW, it's below the fold (with the help of a little javascript)!