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View Full Version : Is 12.04 an atempt to move away from the terminal?



zerzu
July 27th, 2012, 02:42 AM
I am a beginner with ubuntu, but I do have a good deal of "understanding" of how most things work but I am puzzled...I am now on day 2 of trying to install/configure 12.04 on my Asus g74sx which contains an nvidia graphics card. After many tedious hours of scouring the internet pulling out my hair trying to re-learn and fumble through command line instructions via terminal i'm now zipping away as I did a fresh install and ran everything I needed to from the "dash home" is ubuntu really getting that simple? Is it now the case that running,installing, etc from the terminal is only done on a "have to" basis? :confused:

angry_johnnie
July 27th, 2012, 03:46 AM
not necessarily. everything is much faster on the terminal. the software center was one of the first things i uninstalled. in the end, it's not about whether you have to use the terminal. it's about choice. i use it, and i wouldn't do things any other way, but that doesn't mean it's the only way.

asking for support in the forums is usually going to get you command line instructions. it's a lot easier to give you some code to copy and paste into a terminal, than to have you click this, click that, scroll down, and so on. not everybody's desktop looks alike. not everybody uses a desktop. the only thing that everyone will have in common is the terminal.

yuvraj23
July 27th, 2012, 03:47 AM
Ubuntu is made for those peoples who just want to have their work done in simplest manner.. They have no Interest or doesn't care about terminals or such things. Look Ubuntu are made for those peoples who have just transacted from windows to Linux. If they will expect only terminal stuffs then they will certainly backoff..


Btw Terminal is still there, and will be always there!

Thankx
Yuvraj

BrokenKingpin
July 27th, 2012, 02:06 PM
Ubuntu has been good enough for years to not have to rely on the terminal, some people just prefer to use it. It is also easier to give people instructions with a few terminal commands instead of walking them through the GUI, which is why a lot of tutorials still have terminal commands.

At work I use Windows, and I use the command line just as much as I do on Linux... so it really is a preference thing.

TheFu
July 27th, 2012, 02:45 PM
Being easier to use is a fantastic idea, so extreme efforts to make most of the commonly needed programs, tools and settings available using a mouse have been made.

However, when trying to explain how to accomplish a task over a forum or other non-in-person way, providing CLI commands is more exact and easier than attaching 50 screen shots with text descriptions.

I love that I can easily script commonly performed tasks, so that something with a point-n-click method that takes 5 minutes can be accomplished in less than 5 seconds of my time using a script. That doesn't mean the programs performing the work are any quicker necessarily, but **my time** actively doing anything to make it happen has dropped 1000x less. THAT is whey CLI interfaces still matter.

Further, if you want to work on remote systems, using the GUI is a waste of bandwidth and requires many more resources than would be needed by the CLI installation. Internet hosting companies easily put 300-3000 non-GUI users on a small Linux server. If they needed a GUI for all of them, that would be more like 100-300 at most. GUIs consume lots of CPU, RAM and disk storage.

I LOVE that Linux and Ubuntu is trying to make things easier for everyone, but I'll still spend 90% of my time in a terminal to get work done.

When you need to do 1 task, once, then a GUI is fine. If you find that you are doing it over and over, then a script makes sense. GUI scripting is mandatory on Windows because their usually isn't a CLI method to accomplish the same goal. AHK is good at this. OTOH, almost all UNIX-like OSes do support the CLI interface first and add the GUI later. To a programmer, this is a best practice to have the GUI separate from the business logic. Both are needed and both are useful for the different types of tasks.

I guess that I would challenge you to think of 1 thing you do daily by point-n-click under Ubuntu. Could that be automated and be more efficient? For example, do you start up a music playlist when you start working at your PC every morning - open the program, search for a playlist, tell it to play? That has to take 15-30 seconds. What if you could script the program to start playing the playlist you passed in immediately with 1 command instead? 2 seconds tops. Over the next year, how much time would that save? What about over the next 10-20 yrs? I have scripts from 1995 that I'm still using almost daily.

Anyways, just wanted to put forth the idea that CLI has a place, along with the GUI methods.

14quartz
July 27th, 2012, 02:48 PM
It's seems so. Ubuntu is moving towards GUI rather than being terminal just to pull more windows user.

yuvraj23
July 27th, 2012, 05:16 PM
Exactly! And thats good!

Morbius1
July 27th, 2012, 05:40 PM
I would argue that just the opposite is true. Unity, but more importantly Gnome itself will drive more user to the terminal than away from it.

Let's say for whatever reason you need to add yourself or another user to a particular group. Gnome3 has the "User Accounts" utility to add new users but they fired the Gnome2 developer responsible for "Users and Groups" because he was resistant to change so the new utility has no provision to add or modify groups. The result is that you have to do from the terminal. You can install the Gnome2 utility if you want but who knows how long that will be available.

Want to have a custom file association? Sorry, no can do in Nautilus any more. You can create one manually or install another file manager like Thunar or PCManFM.

There's a big argument around here about how bad or good Unity is but it misses the point. Underneath Unity is Gnome3. Gnome3 sees features as bug and they are doing an excellent job of eliminating them.

teward
July 27th, 2012, 05:44 PM
As with Windows administration, some things just need the terminal.

While i understand that the GUI is preferred , and therefore is getting more use, the terminal will *always* exist. It's just a tiny bit harder to get to.

hakermania
July 27th, 2012, 05:44 PM
not necessarily. everything is much faster on the terminal.

No, it isn't. How fast is browsing your pictures through the terminal, for example?

Terminal is a pretty good and cool tool, but, well, it isn't God itself!

I think that Ubuntu has done several steps (since 10.04) forward for not using the terminal, but there have still a lot of things to be done so as, even the average user, not to use the terminal even once.

Take as example the answers on this forum. It will be challenging to find a topic describing a problem whose answers not to contain a suggestion/solution/request that contains the use of the terminal.

Linux users are used to terminal and the newbies in our party are strongly encouraged to get used to it.

After all, I don't see a very bad point of not being afraid of using the strength of a terminal!

zerzu
July 27th, 2012, 08:35 PM
Thank you all for your inputs on this subject! I am no where near ready to tackle the terminal as of yet, I can use it...sort of...I know how to navigate around it, etc...but if someone sends me a line of code to put in there I cant tell you a single thing about what it does. This sometimes frightens me as I really don't know if I'm openening myself up to something bad or not, I just have to put my trust in the person I get help from and that is a bit scary at times...I did have to use my terminal last night to get Diablo 3 working however...other than that though Ive used the software center and the dash....I will say that while Ubuntu is not as "idiot proof" as windows is getting to be it has become VERY easy to use and I really have enjoyed it thus far.

cariboo
July 27th, 2012, 08:50 PM
As with Windows administration, some things just need the terminal.

While i understand that the GUI is preferred , and therefore is getting more use, the terminal will *always* exist. It's just a tiny bit harder to get to.

One of the first thing I do on a new install is to add a terminal icon to the launcher, just like I use to add it to the top panel on the old two panel interface.

zerzu
July 27th, 2012, 08:55 PM
i know this is a little off topic...but I think I do remember a way to use the terminal to make my <ctrl>c and <ctrl>v work like they did in windows...is that still possible?

madjr
July 27th, 2012, 09:06 PM
I am a beginner with ubuntu, but I do have a good deal of "understanding" of how most things work but I am puzzled...I am now on day 2 of trying to install/configure 12.04 on my Asus g74sx which contains an nvidia graphics card. After many tedious hours of scouring the internet pulling out my hair trying to re-learn and fumble through command line instructions via terminal i'm now zipping away as I did a fresh install and ran everything I needed to from the "dash home" is ubuntu really getting that simple? Is it now the case that running,installing, etc from the terminal is only done on a "have to" basis? :confused:

I believe here is a guide for your laptop model:

http://raypendergraph.wikidot.com/running-linux-on-the-asus-g74sx

zerzu
July 27th, 2012, 09:27 PM
I believe here is a guide for your laptop model:

http://raypendergraph.wikidot.com/running-linux-on-the-asus-g74sx

Thank you!!!

yuvraj23
July 28th, 2012, 03:45 AM
No, it isn't. How fast is browsing your pictures through the terminal, for example?

Terminal is a pretty good and cool tool, but, well, it isn't God itself!

I think that Ubuntu has done several steps (since 10.04) forward for not using the terminal, but there have still a lot of things to be done so as, even the average user, not to use the terminal even once.

Take as example the answers on this forum. It will be challenging to find a topic describing a problem whose answers not to contain a suggestion/solution/request that contains the use of the terminal.

Linux users are used to terminal and the newbies in our party are strongly encouraged to get used to it.

After all, I don't see a very bad point of not being afraid of using the strength of a terminal!


Agreed!