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monkeymartin
March 16th, 2005, 08:49 AM
why do you use linux over windows

I am asking this question because all my friends and family think I am wasting my time with linux.

I got this comment from my computer teacher "linux if free if your time is worthless"

I thought he was full of sh**

how can I explain linux to my family and friends

Buffalo Soldier
March 16th, 2005, 08:57 AM
Time is not worthless. It is very precious. That is why I use GNU/Linux. The extra amount of time it took me learn its inner working is far less than the time I wasted on MS Windows doing spyware/virus scan, defragmenting and other maintenance work.

Not to forget the work/assignment that I lost whenever Windows pulls a stunt, and the anguish, lost of precious sleep, redoing all the work till the last minute of deadline.

If they look at the big picture. Learning and using GNU/Linux is a better use of time and personally for me has proven far more productive.

EDIT: Don't get me started on the philosophical reasons :)

Slapdash
March 16th, 2005, 09:01 AM
You know what... I have a friend who gives me sh*t about Linux all the time.
The thing is if they have never tried it they cant talk about it. Period.

THey do it because of the FUD they have.

THey are people who moves with the stream, they believe everything they read, they are controlled by the media, but they dont try anything for themselves to EXPERIENCE it.
And if they do they are closed to the NEW experience and believe it should be like the old otherwise its "not working" "I dont like it because in Windows..Blah blah Blah"

THe best thing you can do is stick with it and if they dont want to come over or try it etc. klet them. I firmly believe that Linux and OSS are on the increase and gaining popularity, When its 50 / 50 in terms of market share you'll see all those people trying to jump the MS ship, then you will have had YEARS of experience on them.

Also nothing you learn is a waste of time. and for your Proffesor / Teacher to say that makes me wonder about him.

I never try and convince people, I just give them the facts or my viewpoint and move on.

bored2k
March 16th, 2005, 09:05 AM
Time is not worthless. It is very precious. That is why I use GNU/Linux. The extra amount of time it took me learn its inner working is far less than the time I wasted on MS Windows doing spyware/virus scan, defragmenting and other maintenance work.

Not to forget the work/assignment that I lost whenever Windows pulls a stunt, and the anguish, lost of precious sleep, redoing all the work till the last minute of deadline.

If they look at the big picture. Learning and using GNU/Linux is a better use of time and personally for me has proven far more productive.

EDIT: Don't get me started on the philosophical reasons :)
The Proven Facts :
* 5 Years using Windows will teach you three things : Internet Explorer, Instant Messaging and Listening to Music. All this while your intelect shrinks as it is not being used for as long as you sit using the OS for hours.

* You are pretty much a slave of Windows. You can not make real changes to it [every freaking XP looks the same -90% do, youre never finding 10 Linux boxes looking the same.

* The ability to learn, to know. Knowledge, knowing you have an option.

* You can sit and laugh in Linux while your friends get chocked by PE.Funlove, Melissa virus, and more crappy viruses.

* No matter how fast your PC, you have to slow it down by installing Antivirus/SLOW firewall apps on it.

* If you wanna stay legal, you have to invest about 1000dollars in software [Windows].

* The community. The fact that you can make a change and get involved in YOUR distribution.

bored2k
March 16th, 2005, 09:06 AM
THey are people who moves with the stream, they believe everything they read, they are controlled by the media, but they dont try anything for themselves to EXPERIENCE it.
And if they do they are closed to the NEW experience and believe it should be like the old otherwise its "not working" "I dont like it because in Windows..Blah blah Blah"


No one can say things better than this [period] .

Knome_fan
March 16th, 2005, 09:23 AM
why do you use linux over windows
There is actually a host of reasons (for example, I really like the ideas behind free software), but on the most basic level, it just works for me. On the other hand, I always had trouble with Windows, which might of course have been caused by me, but who cares if there is an alternative that works.



I am asking this question because all my friends and family think I am wasting my time with linux.
Why would they think so? Just because you are not using the "operating system of the market leader(tm)"? Doesn't it all come down to what you want to do with a computer and if linux let's you do it, how is that wasting time?




I got this comment from my computer teacher "linux if free if your time is worthless"

How can I say it? It doesn't really reflect very favorably on your computer teacher to reiterate old jokes form /. trolls. Anyway, if he had ever used a modern distro like Ubuntu, Mandrake, Suse, etc., he'd know that he was simply wrong. Not that they are perfect, but Windows isn't either.



how can I explain linux to my family and friends
First of all, there is no need to explain anything. If you found something that works for you, use it, that's really all there is to it.
Ask them why they think you should explain yourself.
Finally, if they are curious, just show them what linux is, what you are using and let them play around with it, they might be surprised.

nocturn
March 16th, 2005, 09:38 AM
why do you use linux over windows

I am asking this question because all my friends and family think I am wasting my time with linux.

I got this comment from my computer teacher "linux if free if your time is worthless"

I thought he was full of sh**

how can I explain linux to my family and friends

First point for me is because it is Free (as in speech).

While it may take some time to learn a new OS, once you have a stable install of Linux, you can use it for years if you like, only upgrading when you need/want the new functionality.

With Windows, you spend countless hours updating virusscanners, running anti-spyware, reinstalling, ...

BTW, the argument that Linux is too hard for newbies does not fly with me. Installing and maintaining Anti-virus, anti-spyware and a firewall on windows requires more technical skills.

nocturn
March 16th, 2005, 10:02 AM
"linux if free if your time is worthless"

Let's examine this argument using Ubuntu as an example.
To estimate what an hour of your time is worth, take your salary divided by the number of hours you work per month.

Let's use an example of 10 per hour.

To be fair, you have to look at the time spent maintaining the system on at least a yearly term (including updates, cracks, ...). A five year period would even be better because this includes time spent on upgrading to new releases.
You also count only the time spent on things you *need* to do, so tinkering does not count.

Ubuntu vs. Windows over 6 months.
----------------------------------------------

My Ubuntu install cost me about 2 hours to completely set up (install + add MP3 + ...)
It takes about 15 minutes of maintenance a month now.
Price of the software 0 .
Total cost over 6 months:
0 (price) + (2*10) + ((6*0.25)hours * 10)
= 0 + 20 + 15
= 35

Cost of Windows XP + Office + IE + MSN
---------------------------------------------------

WinXP home - 279
Office 2003 standard - 559
Norton AV - 50
Ad Aware - 0
So, price is 888

Install time of all this software 1.5 hours
Time to load all patches 0.5 hour (SP for all, AV updates, ...)
Total is 2 hours

Time keeping all these up to date:
1 hour per month.

total:
888 (price) + (2 * 10) + (6*10 ) =
888 + 20 + 60 = 968

--------------------
In this model, Windows would cost 933 more then Ubuntu.
In other words.....

I can spend 93.3 hours extra on ubuntu solving technical problems before it breaks even.

-- EDIT
Prices are day prices taken from a large store in Belgium.
-- EDIT
Also note that the Ubuntu machine in this model has much greater capabilities (more software)

Slapdash
March 16th, 2005, 11:20 AM
Mathamatically solving Windows Vs Linux. :shock: I like it! :-D

Slapdash
March 16th, 2005, 11:27 AM
Same guy who said "pirating is better than open source"

On showing him this

and I quote from a Skype chat.

[12:10:02 PM] *HIM* says:not really fair cause Pirated Win XP Free
[12:11:46 PM] *HIM* says: pirated Office free
[12:12:04 PM] *ME* says: Seeing you in Jail Priceless ;)


So hmmm.. one can bring a horse to water ....

az
March 16th, 2005, 01:19 PM
What about free open souce software? Would you buy a car with the hood welded shut? A car that can only be repaired (examined) in a special garage? Or would you buy a car that you can either fix yourself or bring whereever you want?

Some people beleive that open source software is a right. It is a freedom to be able to go and see what your own computer is doing.

Linux (or Unix) is technically superior to Windows. Ask you teacher what is the most popular web server on the net (apache - 70 percent) How many web servers run linux (as oppoesed to running apache under another unix or windows or mac) (30 to 40 per cent) Wasting time yet?


If you learn linux. you can still earn $7.40 an hour as a Microsoft server tape monkey.

What is your teacher's background? Has he ever had another job?

Dragonfly_X
March 16th, 2005, 02:25 PM
THey are people who moves with the stream, they believe everything they read, they are controlled by the media, but they dont try anything for themselves to EXPERIENCE it.
And if they do they are closed to the NEW experience and believe it should be like the old otherwise its "not working" "I dont like it because in Windows..Blah blah Blah"

Yes, Very well said! :-D

wylfing
March 16th, 2005, 04:48 PM
I got this comment from my computer teacher "linux if free if your time is worthless"

Whenever someone asserts a logical fallacy, it's because they don't have a real argument. What is really being asserted here is that Linux requires vast amounts of your time to make it work, and that this level of time investment is unwarranted.

What is unstated, however, is whether Windows also requires vast amounts of your time to make it work. Apologists for Windows always want to claim that it "just works" but that is contrary to experience. The strange truth is that although Windows users spend countless hours trying, and often failing, to make even simpe things work they have been conditioned to believe that that is normal, and so they discount those lost hours in their minds.

Anecdote: My brother is one of these Windows apologists. He likes to say things like, "I gave my girlfriend's brother a web cam, but he uses Linux and so he couldn't get it to work even after hours of trying. I don't know how anyone has time for Linux! Stuff just works in Windows." (Ignoring, of course, that the manufacturer declined to ship a Linux driver for the web cam.) Now he called me one day complaining of having spent an entire weekend trying to solve an "insurmountable" technical problem. He had connected several Windows machines with network cable, and one of these boxen had a printer attached. He was trying to print from one of the other boxes to the one with the printer. It wasn't working. So much for "it just works."

On the other hand, after installing Ubuntu, I simply chose File > Print from the menu bar and lo and behold the network printer is already there. I didn't do anything. So, which one of these setups is a waste of time?

az
March 16th, 2005, 08:20 PM
" I got this comment from my computer teacher "linux if free if your time is worthless""

Some people feel this way because they have never used a computer other than as a desktop. Ask him about clustering (building a supercomputer out of a roomful of commodity computers) on windows. Ask him about Webserving. Ask him about programming in Python or Ruby. Ask him about developing free software projects.

angrylittleman
March 16th, 2005, 08:40 PM
I am a pretty poor student with not a lot of time. I need:
1. A stable system
2. A cheap system
3. System capable of making Office documents

So I use linux. Works fine on everything from my 2.4 ghz laptop to my 133 mhz firewall. And besides, have you ever setup an ssh server in windows?

I also love the security of the system. http://www.linuxense.com/challenge/
Windows, when I install for other people is a pain; I install without any internet connectivity; after waiting an hour or so for windows to do its thing, I then install zonealarm, adaware, and avg anti-virus. Once this is all in place (like 3 restarts later) I am now ready to install updates for windows (30+ secutiry updates + SP2(what a beast)) After numerous restarts, I then update all the drivers for the sytem, install FF, Email programs and musiKCube. Then I install MS Office. after everything (all the programs, little stuff included, java, flash, ftp) I have spent hours install a windows system.

To install Ubunut for example, it takes about 45 minutes (disk insert to desktop) The updater automagically grabs all of the updates, and synaptic allows me to install all of my software at once. I then install updated kernel and do the only reboot during the install process. I am then looking at a desktop with MS Office Compatibility, browser, email, etc.

And for the last point on security, when was the last time that you heard of a windows-based hardware firewall?

Don't get me wrong, windows has it's place, just not in my network(I do have to keep it on one of my machines, a few school related sites require IE and I take exams on my laptop, windows required). If you learned linux as your first operating system, I think there would be a lot less backlash from windows users.

trash
March 16th, 2005, 08:53 PM
" I got this comment from my computer teacher "linux if free if your time is worthless""

Some people feel this way because they have never used a computer other than as a desktop. Ask him about clustering (building a supercomputer out of a roomful of commodity computers) on windows. Ask him about Webserving. Ask him about programming in Python or Ruby. Ask him about developing free software projects.


It really scares me when people who are shaping the minds of our youth are so narrow minded! good call azz.

Gary Powers
March 17th, 2005, 03:03 AM
When I sat down at my first computer, the argument was between MSDOS and DRDOS ....
next was DOS vs Windows
next was Windows vs OS2
now its Windows vs Linux ...... Linux vs FreeBSD ...... Ubuntu vs Debian .... Debian vs Gentoo ......

Hmmmmmmm ....... I'm not sure, but I think I see a pattern developing :-)!

Gary

nikopol
March 17th, 2005, 03:40 AM
I think piracy is the key problem we face as a community. If MS were to crack down on pirates big time, obliterating the illegal market, Linux would grow in users exponentially. But I'm sure MS are going to be pretty lenient on piracy in emerging markets - ubiquity (legal or illegal) is possibly their strongest weapon...

az
March 17th, 2005, 04:08 AM
When I sat down at my first computer, the argument was between MSDOS and DRDOS ....
next was DOS vs Windows
next was Windows vs OS2
now its Windows vs Linux ...... Linux vs FreeBSD ...... Ubuntu vs Debian .... Debian vs Gentoo ......

Hmmmmmmm ....... I'm not sure, but I think I see a pattern developing :-)!

Gary
What do you mean? That everybody has a point of view?

carlc
March 17th, 2005, 04:22 AM
5 Years using Windows will teach you three things : Internet Explorer, Instant Messaging and Listening to Music. All this while your intelect shrinks as it is not being used for as long as you sit using the OS for hours.

I totally agree with this statement. However, I think this is where most windows users are the most happy. They like the idea if "using a computer" but have no desire to advance beyond point and click.



If MS were to crack down on pirates big time, obliterating the illegal market, Linux would grow in users exponentially.

I also totally agree with this statement. I dont think the average Windows user will take a look at Linux until more people start paying for the software that they use and even then it will only be a more intelligent consumer who considers their options.

defkewl
March 17th, 2005, 04:54 AM
I can't afford to buy Windows license

bored2k
March 17th, 2005, 04:57 AM
You shouldn't use it then .
But hey, youre in freaking Indonesia M$ runs away from that country lol.

defkewl
March 17th, 2005, 05:11 AM
You shouldn't use it then .
But hey, youre in freaking Indonesia M$ runs away from that country lol.
Nope. M$ still doing their freakin marketing especially .NET, this is killing us Java developer. Hahaha.

occy8
March 17th, 2005, 06:03 AM
Why Linux, someone else said it before Windows cost too much money and is not secure. I spend a lot of time getting Ubuntu running or should I say my internet connection ( I spend almost a week ).

So if you charge the time I would have been better of buying...........

A new modem hahaha still much cheaper then windows.

But I learned a lot and it was not boring.
The initial install was painless. Just over 1/2 an hour everything worked out of the box. Then came the internet connection 6 days ( I got some sleep though)
It took me some time to find a working printer driver too. (A few hours)

I tried to get rid of Windows a couple of time but there was always a porblem with something. Now I think it's possible. I got almost all the software I need for free without the worry of spyware, malware, viruses.


Beside all of this I don't like the philosophy behind Microsoft.

Gary Powers
March 17th, 2005, 06:15 AM
What do you mean? That everybody has a point of view?

Exactly!

There is an OS for pretty much every taste and need. I kinda like 'em all.

Gary

Heliode
March 17th, 2005, 10:00 AM
I feel there's a very important point people tend to overlook:

At one point in your life, you ALSO had to figure out how to use Windows!
(i.e. install drivers, add/remove software, set up internet connection, etc)

The only reason you learned Windows way back then is because it was practically shoved down your throat. When people nowadays try GNU/Linux and they find they don't instantly understand it, they think it's wierd. I wonder why.

RadixLecti
March 17th, 2005, 11:13 AM
I read an interesting article abour server-OS's a while back.
Linux/Unix/Solaris-based servers had an uptime of 300-500 days.
Windows 2002 never exceeded 23 days.
Windows 2003 managed 30-35 days.

Uptime isn't everything, but it tells you something about stability, I think.

For the Swedes here, the link is: http://linuxworld.idg.se/ArticlePages/200412/15/20041215160227_LXW079/20041215160227_LXW079.dbp.asp

For non-Swedes, the info can still be gleaned from here: http://news.netcraft.com/

nikopol
March 17th, 2005, 02:09 PM
Another point I'd like to add - I think that inevitably a large amount of OS users are not going to be power-users - the surf/email/wordprocess/music brigade are probably close to 70% of users but I don' think there's anything wrong with that and hopefully we'll be able to coerce them into using Linux..

poofyhairguy
March 21st, 2005, 09:15 AM
I am asking this question because all my friends and family think I am wasting my time with linux.


Thats not how you sell them with you using Linux. I'm good at ******** so I'll loan you some.

" I use Linux because computers are increasingly becoming integrated into everyday life an I want to make sure I am as flexible as possible. As it is, if I am forced to use linux at a job in the future (ot in some other capacity) I already know what I'm doing. Can you say that? It is a fun way to add to my skill base and prepare myself for the future. Unlike yourself, I wish to learn as much as I can about the important tool called the computer and the skills I aquire place me in a minority of users. Sure, everyone and their dog "knows how to use a computer" aka Windows. But few people know how to take a computer with nothing on it an turn it into a fully functional system for free."

Make sure you end with free. Sweep jaws into nearby dustbin....