Should ubuntu get rid of the brown for a new fresh look ?

[PingunZ]

Well, the title says it all :)
I think it should, ubuntu art is now limited cause of the brown color..

Grtz PingunZ

[aysiu]

I love brown and orange! (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=180611)
If not Brown, then what? (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=109397)
Love Ubuntu, hate brown! (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=162628)
Why is the default theme brown? (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=101777)

[PingunZ]

Sorry man, it wasn't intended to be a double, triple, quad post..
I just want to post the results to the edgy developers ;)

Grtz PingunZ

[John.Michael.Kane]

Not this question again........

[aussiedini]

Doesn't really matter. Mine hasnt been brown since day one. Thats the beauty of linux/Ubuntu, you can change it all...

[John.Michael.Kane]

aussiedini these threads are not about user's changing them on their own. they seem to want the default install to be less brown with out any user interaction.

[PingunZ]

Yes you can change it but it should be nicer for default.
For example, i don't think anyone of this forum runs XP on the default style but lots of noobs run it that way, so do it for the noobs :)

Grtz PingunZ

[aysiu]

Yes you can change it but it should be nicer for default.
For example, i don't think anyone of this forum runs XP on the default style but lots of noobs run it that way, so do it for the noobs :)

Grtz PingunZ
New Windows users are a completely different population from new Ubuntu users.

I'd say being able to customize easily the look and feel of your desktop is one of the main reasons people migrate to Ubuntu.

[PingunZ]

There are several types of ppl in ubuntu
- Parents, friends of ppl familiar with ubuntu
- Noobies to linux ( like me :) )
- Normal linux users
- Good linuxors ( T3H G33KS )

For the first group it takes a while to know how to change a theme.
THE FIRST LOOK DOES A LOT !!!
For the second group, they know it can be changed but they still change there opinion with the first look ( thats why suse has got lots of users )
The third and the last group don't realy care
So there is absolutely no problem with changing the default colors, its easier for the artwork team ( no limitations ) and it gives a better impressions to noobs so that they can stick to linux.
And if you are more experienced you can still change it ... so it has no bads, only GOODS :)

Enough offtopic ..

Grtz PingunZ

[Stormy Eyes]

Yes you can change it but it should be nicer for default.
For example, i don't think anyone of this forum runs XP on the default style but lots of noobs run it that way, so do it for the noobs :)

You honestly think that XP's "FisherPrice" look is nice?!

[curuxz]

Yes you can change it but it should be nicer for default.
For example, i don't think anyone of this forum runs XP on the default style but lots of noobs run it that way, so do it for the noobs :)

Grtz PingunZ


Had you bothered to read any of the other posts you would know why it IS brown.

For those lacking in the ablity to use the search function I will reiterate, sorry if I seem a little peved but this is getting stupid how many times this comes up and still people make new threads.

Winxp = Mainly Blue tho also Green, Red, Yellow hell anything the telytubies are wearin

Redhat....er RED
Suse....Green
Mandrake....Blue (to much like MS for my taste)
Gentoo... purple
Turbo...silver, yellow and blue < i duno wtf those crazy little dudes are on when they came up with that combo
etc
the list goes on and on until eventualy the only unique colour left is brown. Tho personaly I would love a monochrome default theme and one of these days ill get around to showing off what I mean.

[Stormy Eyes]

Had you bothered to read any of the other posts you would know why it IS brown.

Why exactly are we bothering with somebody who uses the word "noob", anyway?

[aysiu]

There are several types of ppl in ubuntu
- Parents, friends of ppl familiar with ubuntu
- Noobies to linux ( like me :) )
- Normal linux users
- Good linuxors ( T3H G33KS )

For the first group it takes a while to know how to change a theme.
THE FIRST LOOK DOES A LOT !!! Anyone who belongs to the first group would most definitely have the second, third, or fourth group around to set it up for them exactly as they want it. They won't be messing around with themes... but someone else will be.

[John.Michael.Kane]

aysiu I been down this road. your going to have a tough time getting users to understand. from everything i have read most not all want xgl/compiz/non brown colors ect out of the box. now i don't have anything against users wanting this. however these options be it a color change or xgl should not be the default for ever user. not every user wants or needs pretty icons ect, and those that do, know how to get those kinds of thing working on his/her machine.

[curuxz]

aysiu I been down this road. your going to have a tough time getting users to understand. from everything i have read most not all want xgl/compiz/non brown colors ect out of the box. now i don't have anything against users wanting this. however these options be it a color change or xgl should not be the default for ever user. not every user wants or needs pretty icons ect, and those that do, know how to get those kinds of thing working on his/her machine.

I would quite like autocad to work out the box but it aint guna happen. I know that because I know its not an issue with Ubuntu but with those that make the software.

Why cant we just have a big sign saying "its like that for a reason, you know why we get to decide the defaults...because we are smarter than you. Now just be glad we aint chargin'"

[paullinux]

Personally I believe that it's not the color (brown) is an issue, the ugly and oldfashioned gnome panels that come default after initial installation are! I know it's not Ubuntu's fault but that standard gnome panel and it's ugly icons are not an asset but a liabilty. First impressions are invaluable in persuading first-time users and it is my opinion that a nice polished and cleverly designed desktop is essential in that matter. I believe allot of work needs to be done to come even close to OSX-layout for example.(I have an IMac G5 yes...) Anyway I love Ubuntu as a good and solid distribution, but not for its layout. Someone needs to sit down and think about designing a better desktop. The color of which is not that important.

[bruce89]

I think brown/orange is different, and it should be different.

[grte]

Doesn't matter to me. I don't think I've ever kept a default theme for more then a couple of days.


Personally I believe that it's not the color (brown) is an issue, the ugly and oldfashioned gnome panels that come default after initial installation are! I know it's not Ubuntu's fault but that standard gnome panel and it's ugly icons are not an asset but a liabilty. First impressions are invaluable in persuading first-time users and it is my opinion that a nice polished and cleverly designed desktop is essential in that matter. I believe allot of work needs to be done to come even close to OSX-layout for example.(I have an IMac G5 yes...) Anyway I love Ubuntu as a good and solid distribution, but not for its layout. Someone needs to sit down and think about designing a better desktop. The color of which is not that important.

...Huh? Gnome is what won me over to linux originally. It's simple, clean, and efficient.

[IYY]

Personally, I hated the brown in previous versions but Dapper's orangish brown is beautiful. I don't want to see it change. However,


Tho personaly I would love a monochrome default theme and one of these days ill get around to showing off what I mean.

If you think what I think you mean, this might be a good idea. It seems that both OS X (white) and Windows Vista (black) are doing monochrome now. Maybe it's the next big thing...

[Compucore]

Leave it as a default when you first log into ubuntu for the first time. Then you should have the options to go into and changing that afterwards. I think personally. They should include more themes or at least a larger sort when it is first installed onto your computer at home. Instead of searching for a new one and downloading and installing it. It's the same thing for the splash screen and the boot aswell leave them as a default in the begining when you first log in. Then just change them afterwards. Just need a larger list of them to begin with in the beginning for all three. Thats my take. Just add all the themes on the next versions of Ubuntu and splash screen. Then you'll be okay for that.

Compucore

[RAV TUX]

A nice Ubuntu/Gnome Brown & Orange fair-trade organic all cotton T-shirt dyed with fair-trade organic natural coffee whose proceeds would go to support equal marriage, breast cancer and hungry children would be nice.

[beast2k]

Brown is the color of human waste, Sorry if I offend anyone but thats what it reminds me of. A change is a really good idea, no matter how "human" or earth like it be.

[PingunZ]

I wouldn't remove te brown team but just make the default look more fresh .. glassy etc ..
So after the install you got 2 finished teams, the human (brown and orange ) and the new human ( lightblue, green, or whatever new color :) )

Sorry again for not checking if the thread existed yet ;)

Grtz PingunZ

[v8YKxgHe]

How about this:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=187961

:-D for the next theme, could we PLEASE have flashing application button thingys at the bottom? What get's your attention more, the text flashing on and off - or it changing colour? Talking on aMSN and when someone replies, if you don't hear the sound then your not going to know they have replied back - but with it flashing different colour you WILL see that they have replied.

[bruce89]

If people don't like the default, just change it. This is another example of the "I don't like the default, so change the default." The default has to be something that the majority of people like, not what you want. It's the same with applications, I use Epiphany, but I realise other people hate it, so that is why it isn't the default (yet!).

[v8YKxgHe]

The Default theme should ALWAYS looks good and visualy appealing, the _fact_ is that a very high percentage of people judge how good an operating system is by it's looks, I know I use to ( well, still do really )

Take for example Win95 and WinXP. Swap the looks over so Win95 look identical to WinXP and WinXP looked like Win95. I can guarentee a very large majoirty of them would choose Win95 with the XP look. Win95 may not be the best operating system but they would go for it because it looks good, so to them it should work good too.

This is probably the main reason why Linux is not doing as well as it could in the Desktop world. Linux programmers in general ( Not all, but the majority ) of them do not care what there application looks like, as long as it works. Because of this people from a highly polished Windows or Mac box wanting to switch to Linux are put off because it doesn't look good.

Ubuntu is unique in the terms of Brown/Orange colours and I actaully like them. The majority of other Linux distros use the same old boring Blue. Imho if Ubuntu wants to really get into the Desktop world it needs to be strict on Application GUI/GUI in general and make sure that things are polished to the max, make everything look good together. Another thing is the way Gnome renders Fonts, good god what were the developers thinking? When ever I used to go on Linux my eyes use to hurt because of how the font was drawn. Lucky I have found some threads on this forum that have improved how they are drawn and it looks 100% better and is easier on the eyes. Please Ubuntu Dev's include these by default, for the sake of our eyes.

Sorry if that has gone a wee bit off-topic, but if Ubuntu was to polish it's GUI and get away from the Boring, Old Gnome look it would be more accepted into the Desktop World.

[bruce89]

When I first installed Ubuntu, and saw it was brown I though "Eww, brown", but now I think it is quite a nice colour, especially now it is more orange. It certainly stands out from the boring old blue.

[PingunZ]

It's not what I want ( I can change it myself ... ) but the better ubuntu looks by default, the more ppl will use ubuntu as distro ;) and that's the goal

Grtz PingunZ

[v8YKxgHe]

It's not what I want ( I can change it myself ... ) but the better ubuntu looks by default, the more ppl will use ubuntu as distro ;) and that's the goal

Grtz PingunZ

Exactly, the defaults should stand-out and want people to use Ubuntu from any other. Ubuntu Like.No.Other hehe :D

[Sye d'Burns]

Exactly, the defaults should stand-out and want people to use Ubuntu from any other. Ubuntu Like.No.Other hehe :D

I think the very idea that no other distro uses brown seems to imply that ubuntu stands out. Maybe we should stand out more by blending in.

Sarcasm aside, I'm fine with the brown. It does serve to make ubuntu different. Also, I think the argument that more people will use ubuntu if it had a different default is faulty at best. Judging from indicators ubuntu seems to be gaining popularity just fine... with the brown.

Taken to its logical extreme, how would someone explain the popularity of windows over mac os if we were judging both only by the default theme? Surely more people must use mac? Right?

The fact of the matter is there is more to any OS than window dressing.

[v8YKxgHe]

I don't mean the browns should be changed, I personaly like them. All I was saying is that Ubuntu should spend more time polishing it up and making more things look the same and improving a few things here and there. Keep the orange/brown!!

[RAV TUX]

I think the very idea that no other distro uses brown seems to imply that ubuntu stands out. Maybe we should stand out more by blending in.

Sarcasm aside, I'm fine with the brown. It does serve to make ubuntu different. Also, I think the argument that more people will use ubuntu if it had a different default is faulty at best. Judging from indicators ubuntu seems to be gaining popularity just fine... with the brown.

Taken to its logical extreme, how would someone explain the popularity of windows over mac os if we were judging both only by the default theme? Surely more people must use mac? Right?

The fact of the matter is there is more to any OS than window dressing.
Excellent point Ubuntu Human Theme has been here all the while and Ubuntu is one of the top Distros risen from the South Africa and now based in the Isle of Man. The Human Theme is significant in the humanitarian aspect of bringing together the Human Race as one resulting community transcending the different color hues of the Human species into a beautiful community.

This was achieved with the Human Theme, I think it's great that even with the Human Theme we still have the ability to customize our Ubuntu to our liking.

Why fix what is not broke?

I have left the default Human Theme on my Ubuntu but have changed my Wallpaper.

I also think the Human Theme is overall pleasant and nice. Down-to-Earth and unique amongst the Linux Distros.

Gentoo is nice with the slate blue theme but what would set us apart visually from Gentoo if we adopted thier Theme?

Keeping the Human Theme which has worked, helps build Ubuntu even if you love or hate it or if your indifferent. The fact that it is brought up in topic of conversation is a great marketing theme, in being discussed more Ubuntu wrinkles are made in the brain and Ubuntu awareness is embedded in the memory of Humans, instant Karma. The Human theme is thus transcendant.;)

[RAV TUX]

I don't mean the browns should be changed, I personaly like them. All I was saying is that Ubuntu should spend more time polishing it up and making more things look the same and improving a few things here and there. Keep the orange/brown!!

agreed more polish is always good.

[v8YKxgHe]

Is there any change the default buttons could be smaller aswell? That's the one thing I _hate_ in linux, everything is so god damm big lol ( Yes my DPI and settings are all correct ). The buttons could be much smaller, thus leading to the applications becomming more compact but still useable - this means they take up less desktop space and will make it feel less complicated/confusing.

I find myself using the virtual desktops when using Linux even with like 2-3 windows open, whereas with Windows I don't feel the need to use Virtual Desktops ( I know it doesn't have them ). Also the Save/Open/New buttons on say gedit for example are huge again. Compare this to a typical Windows app, they are much much smaller but are not in-accessable. Making them smaller and maybe closer will again take up less room, allowing the application to become smaller.

[Sye d'Burns]

I don't mean the browns should be changed, I personaly like them. All I was saying is that Ubuntu should spend more time polishing it up and making more things look the same and improving a few things here and there. Keep the orange/brown!!

Honestly, I should've removed your quote from my response. I started out saying one thing and ended up responding to the thread in general.

[RAV TUX]

Honestly, I should've removed your quote from my response. I started out saying one thing and ended up responding to the thread in general.

You could always go back and edit.

[Sye d'Burns]

You could always go back and edit.

I could... but then his reply to mine wouldn't make sense. There's no need to add to the confusion. :p

[nuvo]

I'm not really the kind of person to take advice from people who think Windows XP looks good without DLL hacking (I'd rather have the classic look over the "My First Operating System" toy look).
Also, as previously stated, the look of an OS doesn't have much bearing, if any at all, on how popular it is.

OS X is much prettier than Windows XP, as is KDE to some degree (I admit, I have KDE set up with baghira, but prefer GNOME and XFCE).
If brown is a problem for you, it's easy to switch the wallpaper and themes are pretty simple too.

Giving users a choice of looks when installing would be nice, but not required and since Windows only allows Microsoft themes without hacking (a grand total of 4) and OS X isn't exactly lord of the themes itself, GNOME and other Linux desktop environments are still superior in terms of customisation.

It's pretty true that most people change their desktops as soon as they get a new system or OS to suit their tastes, so it'd be better to offer easy to follow instructions on how to change the way Ubuntu looks as part of some introduction after the first boot.
To be honest, Ubuntu's defaults beat XP's defaults as the blue was just awful to look (I like blue, it's one of my favourite colours, but XP just looked cheap and blocky) at and Vista isn't perfect either.

[v8YKxgHe]

Also, as previously stated, the look of an OS doesn't have much bearing, if any at all, on how popular it is.

Oh it does, many many people go off first looks and judge how good an OS is by that. If it looks crap, they think it will be crap - if it looks good, they think it is good.

[aysiu]

Oh it does, many many people go off first looks and judge how good an OS is by that. If it looks crap, they think it will be crap - if it looks good, they think it is good.
Defaults may not matter for installations, but they do matter for live CDs, unless you have a persistent home directory (which isn't so easy for Ubuntu... at least not as easy as it is for Knoppix).

I've found the brown from Warty/Hoary/Breezy to be ugly, but I'm unashamed of showing uninitiated folks the brownish-orange of Dapper.

[v8YKxgHe]

They matter for everything really, aysiu. Presentation means a lot and can really be a selling point ( Well, not selling for Ubuntu! ) A lot of money is spent on presentation for commercial products and it really makes a difference imho.

[aysiu]

They matter for everything really, aysiu. Presentation means a lot and can really be a selling point ( Well, not selling for Ubuntu! ) A lot of money is spent on presentation for commercial products and it really makes a difference imho.
My point was simply that you can easily modify an installed Ubuntu, but the live Ubuntu will almost always be the default, so the default is what makes the first impression.

So I'm agreeing with you, but mainly for the live CD. People who see my installed Ubuntu desktop will not see the default, and I think that's true for the vast majority of users here.

[v8YKxgHe]

True I see what you mean about that, but the majority of new PC/Linux users will not really know how to change there theme unless the stumble across it - so installed ubuntu defaults also need to be good.

[Sye d'Burns]

They matter for everything really, aysiu. Presentation means a lot and can really be a selling point ( Well, not selling for Ubuntu! ) A lot of money is spent on presentation for commercial products and it really makes a difference imho.

I don't know, if you look at the screenshot sticky, month after month... you seldom, if ever... see a default theme. There might be a shred of truth to this when it comes to distro-surfing, I'll admit it. Let's pretend.

-If I'm absolutely new to linux but I sure do like the screenshots of say 'Gentoo'. Do you really think my smallest problem will be changing a theme? :P

In all honesty, it doesn't matter what distro someone picks out, especially a first distro. It'll change, I guarantee it. As one becomes more comfortable with the linux concept they'll become more willing to experiment. I just think that the argument that if it looks like crap, it will be, or if it looks good, it must be is spurious at best.

No matter how many times I see the default theme complaint, poll or post I can't help but think that it's akin to the 'klik' install argument. People will never adopt ubuntu so long as it looks like dirt. People will never adopt ubuntu (linux) until we have one-click installs. It just doesn't hold water. There isn't a one stop fix to bug #1.

[v8YKxgHe]

-If I'm absolutely new to linux but I sure do like the screenshots of say 'Gentoo'. Do you really think my smallest problem will be changing a theme? :P

*carrying on from pretend* So, what made you try Gentoo without even reading up about how difficult it actually is? The default look. If it looked horrible you would never of tried it probably.

The fact is Ubuntu isn't hard to use, so lets say you loved the look of Ubuntu over Gentoo more but this time it's so much easier. ;)

I know what you mean yes, and agreed with the bug #1.

[aysiu]

I think Sye d'Burns was probably referring to something like a Google search for Gentoo screenshots (http://images.google.com/images?q=gentoo&svnum=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&safe=off&sa=N&imgsz=xxlarge) as opposed to the screenshot of the default desktop.

[Sye d'Burns]

*carrying on from pretend* So, what made you try Gentoo without even reading up about how difficult it actually is? The default look. If it looked horrible you would never of tried it probably.

But why would I read up on it, the screenshot sold me as soon as I saw it!

You're actually making my point for me. Who, after seeing a screenshot, would try any distro without reading up on it (at least a review or two?) I don't think there are that many people that see one screenshot and click the download button.

[v8YKxgHe]

nono what I mean is, if you saw a pic of Ubuntu with the worst theme ever and next to that you saw the best screenshot of Gentoo ever and it looked amazing - to a newbie they would go for Gentoo first. Maybe they don't download it straight away and they will do some reading, but the point is they picked Gentoo over Ubuntu without reading anything before based on the style of it.

[B0rsuk]

You can, err, change the default theme, you know.

[Buffalo Soldier]

Doesn't matter to me. I don't think I've ever kept a default theme for more then a couple of days.

I've been using the default since my day one with Ubuntu. I did try blue and green theme for a few days. But always back to brown and now using orange. Ubuntu default feels homely.

Perhaps that's why the people who wants Ubuntu to change to blue. Because it might feel a bit strange using brown theme for a desktop in an office. Brown is too warm and cosy for an office environment.

Another thing is people might be too accustomed to the blue theme of Microsoft Windows. No one likes change, maintaining the status quo always feels more secure and safe.

Eventhough I love the default theme, I have no problem if the dev starts changing it to some other color. But the reason must be right. As with doing anything else in GNU/Linux or Ubuntu, I seem to have a big problem with reasons that goes along the line of "we must be converting more Windows users to Linux".

There are many types people to use GNU/Linux. But I think the main two are:
those who wants a secure and stable OS and sets of applications
those who understands and appreciates Free, Libre and OpenSource Software.


I may be wrong, but I believe it is these are the kind of users that compliments GNU/Linux developers and together keeps the GNU/Linux engine running. These are the people than constitutes the majority of the illusive "GNU/Linux community"; the volunteers who interacts with the devolepers thru feedbacks, bug-reporting, discussions, annual distro meetings and etc.

It is not my intention to imply all Microsoft Windows users are less-intelligent than people who users other OS. But as with any set or group of people, it is very diversified and some are less smart then others. It is these users who have been cajouled into installing GNU/Linux by over-zealous Linux zealots who promised them more than what GNU/Linux can actually offer, mainly trouble-free installation, initial setup and maintainence. And it is these kind of newbies that we see weekly ranting "I can't get my {insert hardware} to work, I'm going back to Windows, Linux sucks" threads. And we can really blame any of them. (I guess that's why most sympathize and help pours in likes tropical rain)

Back to the issue at hand (Wow! That was a long detour). It's okay to fret about default colors, what eye candy should we have and what-not. But let's not that be our first priority. Let's not converting Windows drones into becoming GNU/Linux users and a part of the community. Because these are not the kind of computer users that has been keeping the GNU/Linux ecosystem thriving and growing all this while.

Let them come on their on terms and for the right reasons. Welcome those who come with a genuine curiosity and interest.

[forrestcupp]

Why exactly are we bothering with somebody who uses the word "noob", anyway?

That was a cheap shot.

Even if there are other threads, the question is relevant. Sure anyone can easily change the appearance of their desktop, but first impressions matter. Whether you like it or not, there are more and more people joining the community who aren't hackers, they just want to use their computer. Should we not cater to them because they don't understand the intricacies of a Linux system, and they haven't been committed to the cause for ten years?

Themes must matter or they wouldn't change it everytime a new version comes out.

Anyway, I don't mind Dapper's brown, but I think I read somewhere that they are thinking of changing the theme to something else to set apart the new line they are starting with Edgy. We will see.

[GuitarHero]

I am able to change the look of ubuntu of course, but I hate doing that. For some reason I don't like changing from default themes. It feels like im not using the same OS or something.... I can't explain it. But with dapper I had to pick the lighter brown ubuntu background. The default dark one is horrid. The nice light creamy brown one is much better.

[raptros-v76]

i liked the brown, the iconset could use a bit of rethinking, but the general concept is nice. the only thing that puts me off about the default theme is the gnome panels. those have always bugged me. the problem is that they dont scale nicely, and they either look too small or too large.

[MikePnKY]

I don't mind the brown actually, I've already started playing with different colors and themes, it was quite easy to pick up :D

...besides, you know that if it's changed, sometime down the road someone is going to ask "why can't they do this in brown?"

[blueturtl]

If you don't like the default theme of Ubuntu, you can change it or go for a distro that has a different color theme. Why would you want to change something that is so defining of Ubuntu?

[raptros-v76]

brown is defining of ubuntu. but the default iconset is the wrong shapes

[Omnios]

Im not shure if this would make a huge resource load on a system but a long time ago thought of getting actual pictures of sand and tiling them for the screen and possibly other aspects of Ubutnu. Brown is nice but sand is better. Could be cool to have a sand desktop back ground with different colors of sand for the Ubuntu writing and logo.

[Koori23]

It's easy enough to change. Plus, the whole idea of the color scheme represents more than just an OS, it represents the colors of the human race. It's a profound ideal. Brown isn't my cup of tea but I respect the choice.

[Buffalo Soldier]

Brown isn't my cup of tea but I respect the choice. :) sweet