listening ears ? Canonical are you there ?

[forestlake]

simple question, does anyone from Canonical actually read these posts ? if not, why not ?

[irv]

simple question, does anyone from Canonical actually read these posts ? if not, why not ?
This is a user's forum. The concept of the name "Ubuntu", one user helping another user. There are employee who are users also, so to answer your question, yes, some will answer your post if they happen to see it.

[forestlake]

thanks for the reply IRV but some things people put stuff here in the hope the Canonical themselves will actually listen for once...

some things cannot be "fixed" by the forum as they are not fixes but workarounds... sometimes you need to get to the source to tell them what is going on so the ENTIRE Ubuntu community may benefit, not just those brave enough to enter the forums ;p

[sffvba[e0rt]

Thread moved to Cafe.

Contact Canonical. (http://www.canonical.com/about-canonical/contact)


404

[irv]

thanks for the reply IRV but some things people put stuff here in the hope the Canonical themselves will actually listen for once...

some things cannot be "fixed" by the forum as they are not fixes but workarounds... sometimes you need to get to the source to tell them what is going on so the ENTIRE Ubuntu community may benefit, not just those brave enough to enter the forums ;p

I am on the developer's mailing list and questions and comments are asked there that deal with problem and improvements. The Forum is for, "hey, I am in trouble, can you help." Things you can't wait for developers to fix, but work-around's.
You have to remember developers; programmers are busy doing what they do not tech support people. So you won't find them out here and I would not expect them to be.

[forestlake]

hmmm calling England is out of the question, none of the options there are relevant and writing a letter will eventually get there but would you write one?!? really ?!?!

[forestlake]

I am on the developer's mailing list and questions and comments are asked there that deal with problem and improvements. The Forum is for, "hey, I am in trouble, can you help." Things you can't wait for developers to fix, but work-around's.
You have to remember developers; programmers are busy doing what they do not tech support people. So you won't find them out here and I would not expect them to be.

that is the problem, if you don't have a problem, how do you get in touch with someone, thus the question as to if someone was listening....

i have some accessibility issues i want to talk to someone about, not a work around, but some real options built into Ubuntu for the world to take advantage of whether they have accessibility issues are not....

quite funny though how those you wouldn't expect here, listening to the voices of "the people" seem to know what we want, what apparently works and what apparently doesn't work ;)

[Frogs Hair]

I have seen users with "Ubuntu Developer" under their user information, but only twice. They do answer questions ,but I don't think they respond to rants. I'm not suggesting that you're ranting ,but I think is is understandable why such posts would be avoided.

[vasa1]

that is the problem, if you don't have a problem, how do you get in touch with someone, thus the question as to if someone was listening....

i have some accessibility issues i want to talk to someone about, not a work around, but some real options built into Ubuntu for the world to take advantage of whether they have accessibility issues are not....

quite funny though how those you wouldn't expect here, listening to the voices of "the people" seem to know what we want, what apparently works and what apparently doesn't work ;)

What sort of attempts have you actually made to "contact Canonical"?
By "i have some accessibility issues i want to talk to someone about, not a work around, but some real options built into Ubuntu for the world to take advantage of whether they have accessibility issues are not...." are you implying that you have some sort of solution that you are willing to reveal in return for some sort of consideration?

[forestlake]

I have seen users with "Ubuntu Developer" under their user information, but only twice. They do answer questions ,but I don't think they respond to rants.

the fact you don't like my tone doesn't mean it's a rant... i am sick of an open source world of closed doors and "super important people who are untouchable and uncontactable"... that's all ;p

[irv]

hmmm calling England is out of the question, none of the options there are relevant and writing a letter will eventually get there but would you write one?!? really ?!?!

Let me ask you a question. Are you a member of Launchpad? Register then go to: https://forms.canonical.com/sales/ and buy support. I believe at that point you would be able to talk to a support person and get personal support from Canonical.

[Frogs Hair]

the fact you don't like my tone doesn't mean it's a rant... i am sick of an open source world of closed doors and "super important people who are untouchable and uncontactable"... that's all ;p

See my edited post.

[Elfy]

simple question, does anyone from Canonical actually read these posts ? if not, why not ?

Rarely in my experience. Why should they?

This really is not the place to contact Canonical.

Mailing lists and Launchpad are the place to talk to developers.

This is just a user forum. It might be owned by Canonical but that's as far as it goes.

[forestlake]

What sort of attempts have you actually made to "contact Canonical"?
By "i have some accessibility issues i want to talk to someone about, not a work around, but some real options built into Ubuntu for the world to take advantage of whether they have accessibility issues are not...." are you implying that you have some sort of solution that you are willing to reveal in return for some sort of consideration?

this is what i am asking, how the hell do i contact Canonical ?!

i have some issues forced upon us without consideration for those with accessibility issues in the interface design and i want to let Canonical know about so they can hopefully either change it or put an option directly into Ubuntu so users can find it easily and change it as the current "Universal Access" is of no help

if i knew how to fix the issue i would by i didn't design the interface and have no idea about coding...

so i need to pay some sort of "homage" to the coding gods before i am listened to? hmmm....

i know what i would like to see and i would like to have the idea considered at the very least but i am not going to run some guantlet to prove myself worthy of that consideration

[forestlake]

Rarely in my experience. Why should they?

This really is not the place to contact Canonical.

Mailing lists and Launchpad are the place to talk to developers.

This is just a user forum. It might be owned by Canonical but that's as far as it goes.

excellent Elfy, that's a start for sure ;) thanks for that :) i shall try Launchpad and see if i can work out who i need to talk to...

[Elfy]

...
i have some issues forced upon us without consideration for those with accessibility issues in the interface design and i want to let Canonical know about so they can hopefully either change it or put an option directly into Ubuntu so users can find it easily and change it as the current "Universal Access" is of no help....

There are some contact options here for the accessibility team

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Contacts

You could try IRC from a webchat - link http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-accessibility

[forestlake]

Let me ask you a question. Are you a member of Launchpad? Register then go to: https://forms.canonical.com/sales/ and buy support. I believe at that point you would be able to talk to a support person and get personal support from Canonical.

so you are suggesting i pay for support i am not after when i want to put forward a suggestion / point out an issue ?

certainly doesn't make sense to me but as yourself and Elfy have suggested, i shall try Launchpad ;)

[forestlake]

There are some contact options here for the accessibility team

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Contacts

You could try IRC from a webchat - link http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-accessibility

i missed that link at the bottom re accessibility, looks promising although the last meeting date for the team was Feb 2011 :}

cheers ;)

[irv]

so you are suggesting i pay for support i am not after when i want to put forward a suggestion / point out an issue ?

certainly doesn't make sense to me but as yourself and Elfy have suggested, i shall try Launchpad ;)

The posts were coming fast out here, and I thought you were looking for help with a problem. Now that I see you have some input you want to share with Canonical, what we suggested is join Launchpad that is the place for your input, not on the forum. We can't give you any better advice.
And by the way your tone does sound like you are bitter. We are not trying to argue with you but give you good advice.

[vasa1]

...
And by the way your tone does sound like you are bitter. ...
I deal with accessibility in a limited way and I notice the tendency of complainants to be bitter. It's totally understandable but, very often, the bitterness overrides and obscures the actual complaint.

Note that this is a generalization and not pointing at anyone specifically.

[forestlake]

The posts were coming fast out here, and I thought you were looking for help with a problem. Now that I see you have some input you want to share with Canonical, what we suggested is join Launchpad that is the place for your input, not on the forum. We can't give you any better advice.
And by the way your tone does sound like you are bitter. We are not trying to argue with you but give you good advice.

trying Launchpad is great advice and i am thankful for that :)

yes, unfortunately i am bitter with open source forums and the lack of contact-ability from several companies in the open source community... for that i am sorry

[befana]

forestlake, if you have an idea about Ubuntu, you can poste it at Ubuntu brainstorm: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/

[forestlake]

I deal with accessibility in a limited way and I notice the tendency of complainants to be bitter. It's totally understandable but, very often, the bitterness overrides and obscures the actual complaint.

Note that this is a generalization and not pointing at anyone specifically.

hey Vasa1, i am bitter for sure, no hiding from that ;) i just hate having to jump through hoops to get listened to, that's all...

i actually raised an issue a while ago re accessibility on this forum and all i got were work arounds, patching a system that the developers shouldn't have messed with in the first place :}

[forestlake]

forestlake, if you have an idea about Ubuntu, you can poste it at Ubuntu brainstorm: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/

excellent link Befana ;) good job ;)

[irv]

I know this has nothing to do with the subject matter, but some one much wiser then I said,

Pleasant words are like a honeycomb,
Sweetness to the soul and health to the bones.
I know when I get bitter and angry, I try to think of this.

[Paddy Landau]

… i just hate having to jump through hoops to get listened to, that's all...

… i am bitter with open source forums and the lack of contact-ability from several companies in the open source community...
I know what you mean; I get this most often from large closed-source companies! (When was the last time you tried to communicate with Google or Microsoft?) I also get it from large non-computer companies.

Do you want to post your thread link here so we can see it?

If you do raise a Brainstorm, please also post its link here.

[forestlake]

hey Paddy, when i find it i will ! is there any quick way to look at all my previous posts?

[forestlake]

ah finally found it !!!

[forestlake]

Do you want to post your thread link here so we can see it?

If you do raise a Brainstorm, please also post its link here.

here you go Paddy - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1988690

here is the Ubuntu Brainstorm one i just created - http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/29931/

this issue with the scroll bar is becoming a problem for me again... i also would like to see the scroll "button" (when you mouse over the scroll bar and that large button appears) stay while your mouse is over it... at the moment it disappears if you don't use it in time :{

[Paddy Landau]

here you go Paddy - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1988690

here is the Ubuntu Brainstorm one i just created - http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/29931/
Thanks, Forest. I've added a comment to your Brainstorm.

[Mr. Picklesworth]

You're confusing Canonical and Ubuntu Developers. Canonical sponsors the Ubuntu project and employs a lot of Ubuntu developers, but certainly not all of them. If you're interested in talking about Ubuntu development, Canonical certainly provides services but they aren't in sole charge of the project. Instead, I suggest you post your idea on Ubuntu Brainstorm (http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/), or join one of the IRC channels (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat) related to development if you'd like to chat with someone directly.

[vasa1]

Thanks, Forest. I've added a comment to your Brainstorm.

Yet another username and password or does the Launchpad one work? ???

I saw your comment. Unfortunately, the correct terms are not being used. It does appears that the topic is about "overlay scrollbars" but for whatever reason it's not called so explicitly.

[Paddy Landau]

Yet another username and password or does the Launchpad one work?
Canonical has a single "unified" login for the forums, Launchpad, Brainstorm, etc.


I saw your comment. Unfortunately, the correct terms are not being used. It does appears that the topic is about "overlay scrollbars" but for whatever reason it's not called so explicitly.
Thanks for that. It's not always easy to know the correct jargon.

[Carborundum]

Canonical has a single "unified" login for the forums, Launchpad, Brainstorm, etc.
Brainstorm is actually not part of Ubuntu Single Sign On, so it's necessary to create a completely new account, username, password and everything.

[Paddy Landau]

Brainstorm is actually not part of Ubuntu Single Sign On, so it's necessary to create a completely new account, username, password and everything.
Oh, OK. It's about time it was unified with the others, I suppose. Perhaps raise a Brainstorm for that. :)

[vasa1]

Brainstorm is actually not part of Ubuntu Single Sign On, so it's necessary to create a completely new account, username, password and everything.
Yes, that's how it looked to me. Bit off-putting.

[vasa1]

Canonical has a single "unified" login for the forums, Launchpad, Brainstorm, etc.


Thanks for that. It's not always easy to know the correct jargon.

Well, I tried to make clear over here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1988690

But the Brainstorm post seems to be a copy-paste of the first post in that thread.

[castrojo]

If you have accessibility concerns you might want to post on the accessibility mailing list:

https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-accessibility

[jonathonblake]

Register then go to Canonical Sales and buy support. I believe at that point you would be able to talk to a support person and get personal support from Canonical.

Have you read what was included in those support contracts? "General business use of Ubuntu desktop" or "Intensive use of Ubuntu desktop as a workstation". Is A11Y support really included in either package?

Based on phone calls I've had with umpteen firms, looking for paid 7/24 support for either Linux or Windows, I'm fairly confident that A11Y is not included in that paid support. For starters, the firms I've talked to, that provide 7/24 support for A11Y, restrict that support to specific software programs, with platform related issues being specifically excluded. (Ponder on this for a moment: Your screen reader does not work. You call your paid A11Y support line, only to be told that the issue is with something other than your screen reader. You call Microsoft/Red Hat/whoever, only to be told that the problem is with the screen reader. That is the usual, normal, and standard non-support scenario, when it comes to A11Y software.)

Given how much I've spent on paid tech support in the last year, I would be extremely surprised if paid Canonical Support can help with any A11Y configuration issues. Based on experience with firms that provide software support, the person I talk to won't understand: "Remove your keyboard, mouse, and monitor from your computer, then explain to me how to fix this specific issue that I am having".


And by the way your tone does sound like you are bitter.

Ponder on how you would act, if the most consistently viable option of being heard, was filing a lawsuit. For those with A11Y requirements, that is usually the recommended course of action.

FLOSS and A11Y are, for all practical purposes, mutually exclusive concepts.

jonathon

[buzzingrobot]

FLOSS and A11Y are, for all practical purposes, mutually exclusive concepts.

jonathon

I am not aware of any open or closed source projects where the developers frequent the user forums. Developers, by and large, stop worrying about code on the day it is released. They're on to the next release.

Open source is very much a developer-centric activity. Ubuntu seems to me one of the least developer-centric efforts in open source. That doesn't mean it is doing enough regarding accessibility. It does mean that other open source projects won't until and unless some developers have a personal interest in tackling the issue.

Remember, open source developers have less incentive to pay attention to users than closed source developers.

[Elfy]

Closed.