higgs.......

[Smilax]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tomchiversscience/100168877/something-like-the-higgs-boson-has-been-found-probably/




somethings afoot.

[Paqman]

Yep, word on the street is that they've passed the 5-sigma mark in their data, which makes it official.

So that's the Standard Model off the hook then. Coupled with the revised results about the speed of light it's been a good time for physics orthodoxy lately ;)

[QIII]

I was hoping they'd find Jimmy Hoffa's body. :)

Now, on to the next thing that gives Physicists nightmares, I suppose.

[Smilax]

na, only 4 sigma so far


and even if it was 5 sigma,

it would need to be independently confirmed by another group.

and, even if it was 5 sigma confirmed, it still dosn't mean it's the higgs, just a boson at this mass, but they are geting closer.

[Redblade20XX]

Yep getting closer. I was hopeful I wouldn't have to re-learn most of stuff I've been taught, lol.

-Red

[rai4shu2]

Exciting, isn't it? Like when primitive cave man first discovered fire.

[eddier]

I'm no physicist but I watch the progress at CERN like a Hawk.

27 miles in diameter- a beam of particles that circulate 11,000 times per second (F1 ? forget it guys). Totally amazing stuff! They've got an express train tethered by a cable doing 10000 miles an hour.

One little question in the back of my mind though - this thing cost more than 10 billion to build plus operating costs. Why is it that important just to know ? Or am I a bit shortsighted ? Is there a payoff of somekind?

Anyone care to explain or speculate.

eddie

[MG&TL]

I'm no physicist but I watch the progress at CERN like a Hawk.

27 miles in diameter- a beam of particles that circulate 11,000 times per second (F1 ? forget it guys). Totally amazing stuff! They've got an express train tethered by a cable doing 10000 miles an hour.

One little question in the back of my mind though - this thing cost more than 10 billion to build plus operating costs. Why is it that important just to know ? Or am I a bit shortsighted ? Is there a payoff of somekind?

Anyone care to explain or speculate.

eddie

Well, it's pretty cool. And if enough people think it's pretty cool, it's worth doing, right?

There's almost always a payoff of some variety to new discoveries. Electricity was a plaything when it first came out. :)

[Redblade20XX]

I'm no physicist but I watch the progress at CERN like a Hawk.

27 miles in diameter- a beam of particles that circulate 11,000 times per second (F1 ? forget it guys). Totally amazing stuff! They've got an express train tethered by a cable doing 10000 miles an hour.

One little question in the back of my mind though - this thing cost more than 10 billion to build plus operating costs. Why is it that important just to know ? Or am I a bit shortsighted ? Is there a payoff of somekind?

Anyone care to explain or speculate.

eddie

A question that maybe answered by the hadron collider is whether there is the possibility that a super conductor exists. All materials that channels energy has some inherent internal resistance that causes energy to be dissapated. This is the reason why we always need energy to accomplish anything. In the case of a superconductor, the energy is electricity and the material that conducts electricity, the superconductor, has zero internal resistance. This will allow us to create a perpetual system that requires only a certain amount of energy and will work forever. So for an ideal situation, imagine an electric car system that you'll never need to recharge.

-Red

[morgan141]

I'm no physicist but I watch the progress at CERN like a Hawk.

27 miles in diameter- a beam of particles that circulate 11,000 times per second (F1 ? forget it guys). Totally amazing stuff! They've got an express train tethered by a cable doing 10000 miles an hour.

One little question in the back of my mind though - this thing cost more than 10 billion to build plus operating costs. Why is it that important just to know ? Or am I a bit shortsighted ? Is there a payoff of somekind?

Anyone care to explain or speculate.

eddie

It's the final piece in the puzzle to complete the standard model, and with it all currently observed phenomena. It would be a big tragedy to know that we have the means to discover it, but decided not to because of the costs.

Besides, split amongst the member states the LHC is positively cheap :p.



A question that maybe answered by the hadron collider is whether there is the possibility that a super conductor exists. All materials that channels energy has some inherent internal resistance that causes energy to be dissapated. This is the reason why we always need energy to accomplish anything. In the case of a superconductor, the energy is electricity and the material that conducts electricity, the superconductor, has zero internal resistance. This will allow us to create a perpetual system that requires only a certain amount of energy and will work forever. So for an ideal situation, imagine an electric car system that you'll never need to recharge.

-Red

Erm, what do you mean by 'whether there is the possibility that a super conductor exists'? They do exist, in fact all the magnets in the LHC ring are superconducting :p. The phenomena has been observed for years and is used in all sorts of technologies. I also am not aware of anything the LHC is doing to explore this field.

Superconductors however are not perpetual motion machines, sadly.

[Paqman]

27 miles in diameter


Blimey, not quite. 27km in circumference. Which still makes it the biggest machine ever built.



Why is it that important just to know ?

Because it's become apparent to us that there's a great deal more to find out. If you want to keep progressing you've got to go where the clues lead.

[Redblade20XX]

It's the final piece in the puzzle to complete the standard model, and with it all currently observed phenomena. It would be a big tragedy to know that we have the means to discover it, but decided not to because of the costs.

Besides, split amongst the member states the LHC is positively cheap :p.




Erm, what do you mean by 'whether there is the possibility that a super conductor exists'? They do exist, in fact all the magnets in the LHC ring are superconducting :p. The phenomena has been observed for years and is used in all sorts of technologies. I also am not aware of anything the LHC is doing to explore this field.

Superconductors however are not perpetual motion machines, sadly.

Whoops you are right! Got mixed up with superconductivity and perfect conductivity. I apologize about that.

[Smilax]

Combined significance of all results 5 standard deviations


"I can confirm that a particle has been discovered that is consistent with the Higgs boson theory," said John Womersley,

[morgan141]

Whoops you are right! Got mixed up with superconductivity and perfect conductivity. I apologize about that.

What do you mean? Do you mean a search for a classical superconductor? A room temperature superconductor? Both interesting topics of research but I'm not aware of the LHC contributing anything towards them. I don't know much about the experiments beyond ATLAS and CMS mind, so care to provide links?

[ZarathustraDK]

On the sigma certainty...

I believe they said that there was a 99.999999% (6 sigma) chance they'd found a boson, 99.99995% chance that boson was a Higgs boson.

The extra "5" at the end is significant when dealing with uncertainties this small. I believe "the world" up till the presentation "only" expected 99.9999% certainty.

[Paqman]

Now that they're done I heard they're going to turn the LHC into a ride. When it was originally built they left space for a log flume at the end.

[mips]

One little question in the back of my mind though - this thing cost more than 10 billion to build plus operating costs. Why is it that important just to know ?

Why did humans migrate north from the tip of Africa? Why did the caveman go across that hill he has never ventured past?

Why do anything without immediate financial gain? The more you learn the more you progress. There might not be any immediate financial gain but in the future there sure will be applications for exploratory science. NASA etc is a good example, there have been a lot of spinoffs from research you now find in everyday life yet people still say it costs to much.

Also keep in mind this is a collaborative effort funded by many countries. Where I live we could never fund something like this yet I know of two locals working on this project, one directly on higgs and the other at atlas. There are probably more. I've never considered money spend on science or research as wasted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbIZU8cQWXc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFO2usVjfQc

We need another Carl Sagan to 'sell' science to people and get kids (and adults) interested in the wonders/awesomeness of it all.

[Redblade20XX]

What do you mean? Do you mean a search for a classical superconductor? A room temperature superconductor? Both interesting topics of research but I'm not aware of the LHC contributing anything towards them. I don't know much about the experiments beyond ATLAS and CMS mind, so care to provide links?

There aren't any current experiments aimed directly at the seach for classical superconductors. It was just an example I thought would be helpful for explaining the need for the accelerator. :p

But who knows with these new developments, if true.


I believe they said that there was a 99.999999% (6 sigma) chance they'd found a boson, 99.99995% chance that boson was a Higgs boson.

It's amazing how the last 0.00005% can throw off anything in the quantum realm.

- Red