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Zeven
July 3rd, 2012, 05:12 PM
So apparently Blizzard's anti cheat mechanism "Warden" is banning Linux users running Diablo 3 via WINE. Here's the source. (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5978861022) Sounds insolent, no?

mips
July 3rd, 2012, 05:26 PM
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5978861022



I am appalled by this. Your "cheat" detection is detecting Wine as cheating (Which it didn't do in SC2). On top of this you are REFUSING to refund the money or unban the accounts which are banned.

Emails:


by william on Friday June 22nd 2012, 8:48
Well I've had Diablo running on my FreeBSD machine now for a couple of weeks and have a level 53 Wizard.

I just got notice while trying to log in last night that I was banned, and when I checked my email, I hadn't received anything from Blizzard.

After I opened a support ticket with them, a short while later, this is what I received in email:

Account Action: Account Closure
Offense: Unapproved Third Party Software
A third party program is any file or program that is used in addition to the game to gain an unfair advantage. These programs may increase movement speed or teleport heroes from one place to another beyond what is allowed by game design. It also includes any programs that obtain information from the game that is not normally available to the regular player or that transmit or modify any of the game files.

I don't run any programs as described above.

I kite, I die, and then I repair. But hey it's fun.



by Mitch on Friday June 22nd 2012, 10:31
I got banned last night as well. Other than running under Wine I can't imagine why. Level 30ish char and not so much as a gaming keyboard.

I also have a ticket open. We will see...



by Marcus Meng on Friday June 22nd 2012, 13:08
Ditto. I suddenly got a banned email last night, and I'm more or less in the same position. I think they're getting a bit trigger-happy with this, considering I've been running WoW for years under WINE, too.

Ah well, ticket's up.



by sblanz on Monday June 25th 2012, 13:07
Ok they answered. They told me Linux is not supported, but if you can manage to make it run there, since no file is changed and no advantage is given to the player, you can do that and it's not forbidden.

My ticket was in my first language (italian) and FYI it's attached below.

Now, since you've been banned, I'm VERY curious to know if the problem is wine.

What about trying to send a more official request, maybe from wine dev-team?

---
Grazie per averci contattato. Mi dispiace che tu abbia dovuto aspettare per una risposta ma al momento stiamo ricevendo numerose richieste di assistenza. Ti assicuro che faro' il possibile per risolvere il tuo problema.

Diablo III su Linux non e' supportato ma questo non dovrebbe causare alcun ban o sospensione dato che i file del gioco non vengono modificati in alcun modo.

Di solito un account viene bannato per l'uso di applicazione terze parti come bot e programmi creati per ricevere vantaggi non autorizzati in gioco.

Nel tuo caso, potrai usare Linux qualora riuscissi a far girare il gioco su quel sistema operativo.

Se avessi ulteriori domande, per cortesia rispondi a questo ticket.

Regards,

Arytae
Blizzard Support EU



by william on Saturday June 23rd 2012, 16:19
Salutations William!

Thank you for contacting us. An additional review of the action taken against the Diablo III account on not_really_real@emailaddress.com has been completed. We have confirmed our initial findings, and the account action will not be reversed or changed.

Actions are based on the violation's severity and take previous violations into consideration. This action was taken in accordance with the Terms of Use (us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/) and our Diablo III Policies (us.battle.net/support/en/article/diablo-iii-policies), which all players acknowledge and agree to before logging into the game.

We understand that these policies may seem harsh, but they are in place to ensure that every player is able to enjoy their time in Diablo III. Thank you for respecting our position.

Oh well. So much for the years of gameplay with Blizzard and all the $$.


Source: http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=25953

This is ridiculous.

More... (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5978861022)

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=25953
http://us.battle.net/support/en/article/system-survey-troubleshooting

sisco311
July 3rd, 2012, 05:29 PM
Threads merged.

mips
July 3rd, 2012, 05:30 PM
Nice way to treat your clients...

Zeven
July 3rd, 2012, 05:42 PM
So apparently Blizzard's anti cheat mechanism "Warden" is banning Linux users running Diablo 3 via WINE. Here's the source. (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5978861022) Sounds insolent, no?

EDIT: I thought my thread was deleted for posting in the wrong section so I created another one in the right section. Excuse my own insolence, and excuse the insolence mips portrayed by posting a duplicate thread.

neu5eeCh
July 3rd, 2012, 06:19 PM
I'm not a game player and don't know anything about this situation, but I like this little touch:

"Thank you for respecting our position." :lolflag:

Makes me want to draw a political cartoon, you know? The torturer is reading a prepared disclaimer to the one about to be tortured; and he ends with this disclaimer: "Thank you for respecting our position."

bodhi.zazen
July 3rd, 2012, 06:24 PM
Read the whole thread you linked.

You have two problems:

1. What part of Linux is not supported do you not understand ?

Honestly , I would but D3 if it supported Linux , but no way I am buying & installing Windows to play the game.

Your fault really for buying such a game.

2. You have not proved to me that you were not in fact cheating.

The ban is for cheating, not for using Linux.

So sort of hard to claim you were banned for using wine or Linux when the reason is cheating.

Good luck to you ;)

snip3r8
July 3rd, 2012, 07:34 PM
Blizzard have never really been known for their great customer service, reason being that they make so much money that they don't really care about a few ,even 100 clients.

Dr. C
July 3rd, 2012, 07:47 PM
The game is apparently only supported on Windows or Mac OS X; however here is the interesting part:

1) The user must be running as an Administrator on Windows
2) The security software must be turned off and their "troubleshooting" site contains infromation on how to disable and uninstall common Windows security programs such as Windows Defender, Norton Anti Virus and McAfee Anti Virus. http://us.battle.net/support/en/article/disabling-security-programs

This seems to me as a step by step guide on how to get a Microsoft Windows system infected with malware, viruses and trojans. It is no wonder that this company would ban someone for daring to use GNU/Linux.

bodhi.zazen
July 3rd, 2012, 08:08 PM
The game is apparently only supported on Windows or Mac OS X; however here is the interesting part:

1) The user must be running as an Administrator on Windows
2) The security software must be turned off and their "troubleshooting" site contains infromation on how to disable and uninstall common Windows security programs such as Windows Defender, Norton Anti Virus and McAfee Anti Virus. http://us.battle.net/support/en/article/disabling-security-programs

This seems to me as a step by step guide on how to get a Microsoft Windows system infected with malware, viruses and trojans. It is no wonder that this company would ban someone for daring to use GNU/Linux.

The claim that they ban people for running linux is unsubstantiated and it does not help the GNU cause when you distort the facts.

Vote with your pocketbook, don't buy this stuff.

But please do not advocate GNU with lies and distortions. In doing so you are being counter productive.

Strojar
July 3rd, 2012, 08:49 PM
http://www.joystiq.com/2012/07/03/diablo-3-bans-not-based-on-linux-software-says-blizzard/


"Playing the game on Linux, although not officially supported, will not get you banned cheating will."

bodhi.zazen
July 3rd, 2012, 09:05 PM
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5978861022?page=45#886


... I've been an active forum member of all Blizzard/Battle.net forums going back to their inception. And I've seen thousands of people rabidly proclaim innocence during banning waves.

People lie. They have often been called out by Blizzard reps when they lied.

People want to believe that Blizzard is trigger happy with bannings but it's really the opposite. They don't like to ban paying customers, and they require pretty strong evidence before they take action. Their system is weighted in such a manner that it is more likely to let some guilty people fall through the cracks vs. banning too many innocents. ...

I believe this statement. It is one of the more reasonable posts in the thread.

1. Long standing (experienced) forums member.

2. Makes a lot of sense. As an entertainment co you would not ban people lightly.

3. Making a detection system that specifically targets Linux makes no sense.

4. Other Blizzard games play just fine on wine and are not banned.

I really do not see any credible evidence Blilzzard is somehow specifically targeting Linux.

As an administrator on a busy forums, I have seen these flimsy denials "Drake" is refreing to.

As staff, do we make mistakes, sure, but we have a method to resolve them and I am sure Blizzard does also. When mistakes happen, this is not the way to manage them.

Once again, distroting the facts makes just makes you look like a ranting fanboi lunitic at best and reflects pooly on the GNU community.

bodhi.zazen
July 3rd, 2012, 09:12 PM
Blizzard have never really been known for their great customer service, reason being that they make so much money that they don't really care about a few ,even 100 clients.

So stop buying their products. And do not pirate them either. Many better things to do in life then feed an addiction to games.

KiwiNZ
July 3rd, 2012, 09:25 PM
So stop buying their products. And do not pirate them either. Many better things to do in life then feed an addiction to games.

+1

I would also add, read the terms of use before signing up and don't try to circumvent said terms of use after agreeing to them.

Zeven
July 3rd, 2012, 09:30 PM
It appears a very similar situation happened with World of WarCraft a few years ago where Blizzard ending up unbanning a good deal of Linux gamers. It's a toss up really as to who is in the right here.

bodhi.zazen
July 3rd, 2012, 09:34 PM
It appears a very similar situation happened with World of WarCraft a few years ago where Blizzard ending up unbanning a good deal of Linux gamers. It's a toss up really as to who is in the right here.

Well, the Linux users are in the wrong.

1. Blizzard clearly states Linux is not supported.

2. If the sort of mistake you are referring to happens again, this is not the way to resolve the situation. This is the way to alinenate Blizzard.

What you would want to do is to politely request Blizzard review the ban and the banning rules so that D3 works with wine similar to other games.

The fact the Blizzard fixed similar problems in the past sort of undermines the whole linux fanaticism.

Destroting facts and personal attacks are not the way to encoruage Blizzard, or anyone else, to work with the open source coummunity.

Thus, in this example, linux users are in the wrong and there is a better way of working with Blizzard.

Zeven
July 3rd, 2012, 09:44 PM
Well, the Linux users are in the wrong.

1. Blizzard clearly states Linux is not supported.

2. If the sort of mistake you are referring to happens again, this is not the way to resolve the situation. This is the way to alinenate Blizzard.

What you would want to do is to politely request Blizzard review the ban and the banning rules so that D3 works with wine similar to other games.

The fact the Blizzard fixed similar problems in the past sort of undermines the whole linux fanaticism.

Destroting facts and personal attacks are not the way to encoruage Blizzard, or anyone else, to work with the open source coummunity.

Thus, in this example, linux users are in the wrong and there is a better way of working with Blizzard.

Blizzard states that Linux is not supported, but users have in my opinion successfully argued back against this saying the following:


Unsupported just means if you call and complain about bugs in game they won't be able to help you.... banning people would be under unACCEPTABLE OS, which is not the case. There needs to be something said regarding this, it's not the first time it's happened in their games.

The users in questions apparently do not care about alienating Blizzard as it appears to be a recurring problem and Blizzard apparently only cares once a good deal of users throw a tantrum over this. They would obviously listen more to a large number of customers.

Don't know anything about distorting facts here. The people affected could either be lying, or Blizzard could genuinely be wronging them.

I wouldn't say either side is wrong or right. Large companies don't listen sometimes so users have to get a tad loud to be heard, or simply vote with their wallets. I tend to side with consumers as it is their hard earned money that companies want after all.

bodhi.zazen
July 3rd, 2012, 10:33 PM
Blizzard states that Linux is not supported, but users have in my opinion successfully argued back against this saying the following ... <clip>

Too bad that counter argument makes no sense.

I do not support Windows, for a variety of reasons. One of the biggest is I really have not booted windows in many years now.

Making some sort of counter argument does not increase my knowledge, ability, or willingness to support Windows.

You have still not presented any credible evidence that people were banned for using Linux (wine) rather then cheating.

by your own admission, you do not know the facts


Don't know anything about distorting facts here. The people affected could either be lying, or Blizzard could genuinely be wronging them.

Probably should start with learning the facts before you start raging, otherwise you are prone to look like a rebel without a cause. While there may be times when raging/yelling/screaming may be effective, I find it is often times not the most effective approach.

If you are going to advocate GNU, please start by getting your facts straight and learning some additional techniques at debate and persuading people as 99.99 % of people react unfavorably when you start yelling at them with distorted or inaccurate information.

Zeven
July 3rd, 2012, 10:40 PM
Too bad that counter argument makes no sense.

I do not support Windows, for a variety of reasons. One of the biggest is I really have not booted windows in many years now.

Making some sort of counter argument does not increase my knowledge, ability, or willingness to support Windows.

You have still not presented any credible evidence that people were banned for using Linux (wine).

by your own admission, you do not know the facts



Probably should start with learning the facts before you start raging, otherwise you are prone to look like a rebel without a cause. While there may be times when raging/yelling/screaming may be effective, I find it is often times not the most effective approach.

If you are going to advocate GNU, please start by getting your facts straight and learning some additional techniques at debate and persuading people as 99.99 % of people react unfavorably when you start yelling at them with distorted or inaccurate information.

Really? The counter argument makes perfect sense to me. Not supported does not equate to not permissible going by many in that thread and I am capable of following that notion. Like I said, however, it's a toss up really, so I haven't chosen a side yet, whereas you have, based purely on speculation.

Just to be clear, I am finding it difficult to discern whether you are talking in general or are focusing that at me. I am just acting as the messenger really, relaying arguments from the thread to see if there is a logical argument to counter with. So far both sides seem to be on equal footing, bar the large number of trolls trying to be nothing more but silly. Those will obviously be ridiculed.

Anyway, I'll continue working my way through the thread to see if anything else of interest pops up. Till then!

bodhi.zazen
July 3rd, 2012, 11:00 PM
Really? The counter argument makes perfect sense to me.

There is no counter argument here, just a bunch of people wanting to run D3 on Linux knowing it is unsupported and making unsubatantiated claims as to why they were banned.

Paqman
July 3rd, 2012, 11:03 PM
To be honest, neither of you have ALL the facts, and aren't likely to get them.

It's plausible that Warden does generate false positives on some Linux users running Diablo 3 through Wine.

It's also plausible that they're dirty cheats, and got justly bombed.

We don't actually have enough relaible information to know for sure either way. Embrace the ambiguity! :)

Face-Ache
July 3rd, 2012, 11:26 PM
I'd already actually posted about this ( http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=12071307&postcount=24 )\, maybe why it was moved to Recurring?

But anyway, i understand that hundreds of Linux users have been posting on the Blizzard forums saying that they haven't had any issues at all. I still wouldn't support Blizzard, what with all the draconian restrictions i've heard about them imposing (the always-on internet-required DRM, the now-removed Act limitations if you downloaded the game), but this appears to be not nearly as widespread an issue as a lot of media outlets are making out.

And I think i'm more likely to subscribe to Bodhi's take on it; cheaters are never going to admit to cheating, and as Paqman said, we'll never know the full story.

It's a bit of a moot point for me anyway, i haven't gamed on a PC since 1994! :D

lisati
July 3rd, 2012, 11:32 PM
It's plausible that Warden does generate false positives on some Linux users running Diablo 3 through Wine.

It's also plausible that they're dirty cheats, and got justly bombed.

We don't actually have enough relaible information to know for sure either way.

^^^ This.

In my time as a moderator on this forum, I've seen both genuine mistakes and excuses, so it's plausible that both sides of the discussion (?) are missing something.

Thread closed "for review"