Nvidia (lost order)

[dwhite]

i found the comments after this story interesting. i told my son that as soon as they have STEAM for linux we would build a linux game machine, looks like it will have an AMD card?

http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/nvidia-loses-order-due-to-poor-linux-support-20120628/

[forrestcupp]

Only if you're planning on using a MIPS processor. ;)

NVIDIA is still by far the best Linux solution with regular x86/x64 style processors that most people are using in desktops and laptops.

[dwhite]

Only if you're planning on using a MIPS processor. ;)



good point :)

[Dlambert]

NVIDIA FTW! If only my 6970 wasn't DOA I'd be using AMD right now...

[xedi]

Is it just me or has the nvidia image shifted dramatically in the Linux community? Not so long ago it seemed to me that everybody was always recommending nvidia for Linux because the drivers are better than Ati's and now suddenly they are supposed to be Linux user's worst nightmare. What changed? (Besides Linus' infamous talk :D )

[Lightstar]

lol

"If the king finds it bad, we should find it bad too"
Did nVidia really lose that many orders because people blindly and suddenly changed their opinion toward video cards after Linus stated his opinion?

That's so silly

I still find nVidia cards to work much better than AMD / ATI cards when it comes to Linux.

[haqking]

i have never had any issues with either, i have mainly used Nvidia and do currently but even with ATI i have never had issues.

Linux experience is subjective which is why i pay little attention to sweeping statements, i always try things out for myself.

Peace

[Linuxratty]

They really need to get with the program. Linux is a force to be reckoned with.


But while Nvidia can deal with public criticism (even from someone as influential as Torvalds), they’re probably having a harder time swallowing the hundreds of millions of dollars in sales they just lost due to poor Linux driver support.

http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/nvidia-loses-order-due-to-poor-linux-support-20120628/

[Dlambert]

Someone already posted this thread. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2012708

[Quackers]

Threads merged, as requested.

[Dr. C]

Only if you're planning on using a MIPS processor. ;)

NVIDIA is still by far the best Linux solution with regular x86/x64 style processors that most people are using in desktops and laptops.

A classic example of the problem with propriety software and drivers. Change the processor architecture and there is big trouble.

[alexfish]

A classic example of the problem with propriety software and drivers. Change the processor architecture and there is big trouble.
Can you remember how it used to be done , IE

Address + commands , or bit mapping , and pages etc etc,

[Lucradia]

i have never had any issues with either, i have mainly used Nvidia and do currently but even with ATI i have never had issues.

Try PNY and say that again ;) I had to remove my PNY GTX470's plastic cover, and it still heats up like a madman on stuff like Skyrim, when it shouldn't. Thing seems to be complaining about textures though. (IE: GLSL Minecraft shadow textures, etc.)

[Ji Ruo]

NVIDIA is still the best choice for a card under Linux for performance. AMD however is much more open, which means that the open source drivers (needed for when they drop support for a card with their proprietary drivers) are developing much more rapidly. I think this is the main problem Linus and others have had with NVIDIA, the lack of openness, which causes a lot of hassles when they choose not to support a technology. As a gamer, I would choose NVIDIA over AMD hands down for a desktop card (at least for Linux). For a laptop, probably NVIDIA too but more cautiously (Torvalds's recent comment was sparked by a question about no proprietary support for some laptop GPUs). But laptop graphics can be troublesome for offerings from both companies.

[mips]

Is it just me or has the nvidia image shifted dramatically in the Linux community? Not so long ago it seemed to me that everybody was always recommending nvidia for Linux because the drivers are better than Ati's and now suddenly they are supposed to be Linux user's worst nightmare. What changed? (Besides Linus' infamous talk :D )

Nothing has changed.

nVidia is still the best option (driver wise) when it comes to linux.

So the article is about them not wanting to release their source code. That has always been the case, nothing has changed.

For a different architecture to x86 drivers would be a very real issue when running linux.

[zer010]

At least it seems the engineers at nvidia understand and are looking for advice...
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTEyNTk

[forrestcupp]

AMD however is much more open, which means that the open source drivers (needed for when they drop support for a card with their proprietary drivers) are developing much more rapidly.

We've been saying that since AMD released their specs in 2007, and nvidia is still the better choice.

[Ji Ruo]

I'm not sure about that one... if I had to choose between using the AMD open driver and the nouveau driver, I would choose AMD.

[JDShu]

We've been saying that since AMD released their specs in 2007, and nvidia is still the better choice.

Disagree. Older AMD cards, like mine which uses an rv710 chip works perfectly with Linux, and much better than the geforce card of around the same age.

[Artemis3]

Only if you're planning on using a MIPS processor. ;)

NVIDIA is still by far the best Linux solution with regular x86/x64 style processors that most people are using in desktops and laptops.

You call it mips but the loongson is not actually a mips processor, although it uses an enhanced mips instruction set (called mipsel in Debian).

We need to see how the state of amd drivers progress before steam is released. But right now it seems nvidia is the preferred choice.

I am actually waiting for that moment, where people say, yes, the amd drivers are good now, if even for a selected group of gpus.

We will have to wait and see what valve will officially support for its source games in linux.

Nvidia lost in China a 10 million (units) of gpu sale, due to its reluctance to either recompile or release specs so they could be used with loongson. It is a project to take netbooks to schools.

Just like loongson, i am hoping China can eventually make their own gpu, if open like the loongson, we will all benefit from it. So far they are content with 2d capabilities in the loongson, but things will change. I'm betting they will go with amd only because of the radeon open driver, perhaps nouveau wasn't good enough and or amd was more open friendly in the end.

The loongson 3b is quite nice, 65nm, 8 cores, 40 watts, instructions to accelerate x86 emulation (for qemu to enjoy), etc. The Chinese are getting there, make no mistake.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loongson

[cprofitt]

I used to really, really like Nvidia... but recently I have had odd issues with my GeForce 6800 that forced me to switch to a really, really old Intel solution that was on-board.

MY 8800GTS is starting to have issues to; like the driver that was released with 12.04 that caused the machine to be almost unusable.

Personally, the state of 3D cards in Linux leaves a great deal to be desired when compared to Windows or OS X.

[Lucradia]

I used to really, really like Nvidia... but recently I have had odd issues with my GeForce 6800 that forced me to switch to a really, really old Intel solution that was on-board.

MY 8800GTS is starting to have issues to; like the driver that was released with 12.04 that caused the machine to be almost unusable.

Personally, the state of 3D cards in Linux leaves a great deal to be desired when compared to Windows or OS X.

That's strange, seeing as the PlayStation 3 uses a variant of GeForce 7800. Or rather, used to.

[mips]

That's strange, seeing as the PlayStation 3 uses a variant of GeForce 7800. Or rather, used to.

I don't follow, what does the PS3 have to do with Linux GPU drivers?

[Lucradia]

I don't follow, what does the PS3 have to do with Linux GPU drivers?

Uh. Because you can install Linux on the PlayStation 3?

[haqking]

I don't follow, what does the PS3 have to do with Linux GPU drivers?

Isnt PS3 sys software something to do with FreeBSD

[Lucradia]

Isnt PS3 sys software something to do with FreeBSD

Yep, it uses CellOS, which is "believed" to be based on FreeBSD:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_system_software

[Paqman]

Is it just me or has the nvidia image shifted dramatically in the Linux community? Not so long ago it seemed to me that everybody was always recommending nvidia for Linux because the drivers are better than Ati's and now suddenly they are supposed to be Linux user's worst nightmare. What changed?

Optimus.

I'm still firmly in the Nvidia camp myself, but a lot of people have gnashed a lot of toothage after buying laptops with Optimus on board.

[Lucradia]

Optimus.

I'm still firmly in the Nvidia camp myself, but a lot of people have gnashed a lot of toothage after buying laptops with Optimus on board.

Yeah, I hear Optimus still doesn't work [well?] on Linux.

[Paqman]

Yeah, I hear Optimus still doesn't work [well?] on Linux.

There is a community-based solution (Bumblebee (http://bumblebee-project.org/)) but like all community attempts to work around the shortcomings of a proprietary system they're fighting an uphill battle.

[mips]

Uh. Because you can install Linux on the PlayStation 3?

Yes you can but that does not give you access to the RSX (nvidia based gpu) chip. If there is access it's very limited as sony restricts access to it via the hypervisor (unless you hack it?).
Linux only gives you access to the cores of the Cell Processor really and attached peripherals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OtherOS#RSX_Homebrew



Isnt PS3 sys software something to do with FreeBSD

FreeBSD and Linux have separate drivers and I suspect that what sony uses is heavily customised anyway (for both the os & drivers).

[haqking]

FreeBSD and Linux have separate drivers and I suspect that what sony uses is heavily customised anyway (for both the os & drivers).


yeah i know, 2 separate entities, i was just throwing it into the convo incase the OP thought that it was Linux.

Peace

[mips]

yeah i know, 2 separate entities, i was just throwing it into the convo incase the OP thought that it was Linux.

Peace

No problemo ;)

[dwhite]

You call it mips but the loongson is not actually a mips processor, although it uses an enhanced mips instruction set (called mipsel in Debian).

We need to see how the state of amd drivers progress before steam is released. But right now it seems nvidia is the preferred choice.
.
.
.

The loongson 3b is quite nice, 65nm, 8 cores, 40 watts, instructions to accelerate x86 emulation (for qemu to enjoy), etc. The Chinese are getting there, make no mistake.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loongson


good info, thanks :)

[dwhite]

yeah i know, 2 separate entities, i was just throwing it into the convo incase the OP thought that it was Linux.

Peace

thanks, :)

Peace

[forrestcupp]

You call it mips but the loongson is not actually a mips processor, although it uses an enhanced mips instruction set (called mipsel in Debian).

That's some good clarification, but it doesn't change my point that if you're using normal x86/x64 processors like most of the rest of the world uses, none of that matters at all.

[codingman]

i'm unmoved by this thread... nVidia has been (by far) better in drivers than ATI/AMD, i'd still by far get an nVidia card than an AMD one.

Go eats some C or MIPS and make some instruction sets...;)

[Artemis3]

That's some good clarification, but it doesn't change my point that if you're using normal x86/x64 processors like most of the rest of the world uses, none of that matters at all.

It matters because arm and loongson are increasing in numbers, in fact many mobiles are already using arm. Nvidia can simply add another compile to its blob, but they wanted the Chinese gov to pay for it...

And for nvidia, perhaps the shareholders can ask why this big sale was lost. Is Nvidia trying to sell hardware or software? Do they want more or less units sold?

There have been insightful comments from kernel developers after the Linus incident ;) Something DID happen inside nvidia and this could be a turning point.

[Primefalcon]

well full story is here and I found this bit interesting....


Bear in mind that this school PC project was just a pilot, while the full fledged program aims to place a computer on every desk in China's schools and replace as much paper as possible. While the kids in the West are stuck carrying their books around, the goal in China is to have children carrying no more than one or two paper notebooks, to be replaced with tablets in near future. What is considered science fiction in the West, due to numerous interest groups - is considered a plan in China.

this 500 mil order could be just a drop in the ocean compared to what NVidia has lost in future orders..... due to this stuff up....

They refused to do the port due to costing a few million dollars? really, oh well they may turned down a multi-billion dollar deal to quibling about 5 cents effectively...

[Artemis3]

To be honest this is occurring more or less in many more countries, the idea started with that OLPC thing, then Intel made the classmate, the Russians are going with e-ink devices, netbooks and tablets are going around, there is even the raspberry pi, etc.

Of course, China has the biggest population, and the State can order millions of units just like that. Losing them is suicide, and yes, 10 million units is only the pilot program...

AND, after the Chinese implement this at home, they are going to export it, much more cheaply than anybody can ever try.