MS major press release...

[ExSuSEusr]

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/la-confidential-what-does-microsoft-have-up-its-sleeve/5123?tag=nl.e539

This should be interesting. I am thinking it might have something to do with a tablet maybe... or they're going to declare themselves supreme super rulers of the universe and demand our servitude.

[Bandit]

Personally couldnt care less about MS, there OS or if they try to introduce another tablet into the market. Win8 IMHO is a bust no matter what they install it on. Unless they change their directions their days are numbered. IMHO

- Joe

[Lightstar]

Personally couldnt care less about MS, there OS or if they try to introduce another tablet into the market. Win8 IMHO is a bust no matter what they install it on. Unless they change their directions their days are numbered. IMHO

- Joe

I think they tend to do badly every two release.

Windows 98 was pretty good!
Me was super crap!
XP was awesome
Vista was crap!
7 is pretty decent.
8 is ____

[tjeremiah]

i want their tablet!

[CharlesA]

i want their tablet!
This one?

http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/gallery.aspx

[scouser73]

It looks terrible.

[tjeremiah]

This one?

http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/gallery.aspx

yes. I think this would be perfect for school and looks very travel friendly. Like the design and will purchase if it is at a reasonable price (student discount please).

[ex_isp]

Personally, I boycott absolutely, anything MS. They have done so much to deserve the disgust of the world.

Too bad MS zealots just don't get the reality (or won't admit, which is worse?) of the criminal element of MS, on an historic basis.

They have such short memories.

[CharlesA]

yes. I think this would be perfect for school and looks very travel friendly. Like the design and will purchase if it is at a reasonable price (student discount please).

Aye. I read somewhere that it includes office too, so that would make it ideal for a Student.

[neu5eeCh]

A Microsoft Tablet? Running Windows? Just think, you get Windows, maybe MS Office, and thousands and thousands of pre-built, ready-made viruses all good to go. I'm sure Norton is dreaming big tonight. I'll cross my fingers for them.

[MadmanRB]

If only Microsoft could get the idea of maintaining two versions of windows at the same time instead of pushing for "latest and greatest" and support win 7 for as long as people cant bet access to touch screens

[AllRadioisDead]

It looks awesome, if they price it right I can see these things going mainstream. I'd love to pick up one of the intel ones.
This is what Windows 8 was meant for.

[MadmanRB]

It looks awesome, if they price it right I can see these things going mainstream. I'd love to pick up one of the intel ones.
This is what Windows 8 was meant for.

Right just keep win 8 on tablets, the market will adapt sooner or later but not now thanks to the economy.
There needs to be a cheap way to use a touchscreen interface in the near future, with devices like this (http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/05/meet-the-70-usb-minority-report-device-more-accurate-than-kinect) its close but still quite hefty and regular touchscreens are out of the question

[AllRadioisDead]

Right just keep win 8 on tablets, the market will adapt sooner or later but not now thanks to the economy.
There needs to be a cheap way to use a touchscreen interface in the near future, with devices like this (http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/05/meet-the-70-usb-minority-report-device-more-accurate-than-kinect) its close but still quite hefty and regular touchscreens are out of the question

Prices are coming down. Obviously the intel model is going to be quite a bit more than the ARM one though.

The arm model should suite most users well enough though since Microsoft is making such a strong push for Metro apps. The intel model will be great for power users and people who use legacy applications.



Personally, I boycott absolutely, anything MS. They have done so much to deserve the disgust of the world.

Too bad MS zealots just don't get the reality (or won't admit, which is worse?) of the criminal element of MS, on an historic basis.

They have such short memories.

I suppose that makes you an Anti MS zealot then. What do you expect, for them to roll over and die?

This is a great product and from the announcement you can see a lot of really cool engineering work went into this.

Their blog on "Building Windows 8" has been really interesting and actually shows a lot of transparency into their design decisions regarding their new OS. They also took a lot of feedback from users from the consumer preview and made the release preview a lot better.

[Paqman]

Personally couldnt care less about MS, there OS or if they try to introduce another tablet into the market. Win8 IMHO is a bust no matter what they install it on. Unless they change their directions their days are numbered. IMHO


I tend to agree, but not because Win 8 is no good. Metro looks like it'll be an excellent tablet and phone interface, and Win 8 will do just fine on computers because the OEMs don't really have much choice about what OS they can ship.

Microsoft is declining in importance not because they're unable to produce software of a reasonable quality (because they can). They'll decline because they're no longer nimble enough or hungry enough to catch the new markets as they emerge (or to create new markets a la Apple), and are happy just to glide along on enterprise profits from Windows and Office. Basically they're IBM. They'll never completely go away, they'll just hang around in the background making scads of cash while companies like Apple, Google and Amazon are changing the world.

Microsoft keep missing all the big opportunities (the web, mp3 players, smart phones, digital content, tablets, etc) but as long as their core products (Windows and Office) are still essential they'll keep chugging along.

[KiwiNZ]

With Surface I believe MSFT may well have a winner, and I can see the SOHO and Enterprise markets looking very favourably at this.

[smellyman]

Prices are coming down. Obviously the intel model is going to be quite a bit more than the ARM one though.

The arm model should suite most users well enough though since Microsoft is making such a strong push for Metro apps. The intel model will be great for power users and people who use legacy applications.




I suppose that makes you an Anti MS zealot then. What do you expect, for them to roll over and die?

This is a great product and from the announcement you can see a lot of really cool engineering work went into this.

Their blog on "Building Windows 8" has been really interesting and actually shows a lot of transparency into their design decisions regarding their new OS. They also took a lot of feedback from users from the consumer preview and made the release preview a lot better.


It's a great product? Tell us about your experiences using it.

[Copper Bezel]

It's a smart design. The keyboard is easy to keep around and easy to ignore, and that combined with the Windows RT OS design means a device that's basically an iPad for content consumption that can get serious for content creation. I don't want my next PC to be made by Microsoft or running their software because of the restrictions involved, but in every other sense, the new Surface is what I'd want out of a PC.

[ExSuSEusr]

Personally, I boycott absolutely, anything MS. They have done so much to deserve the disgust of the world.

Too bad MS zealots just don't get the reality (or won't admit, which is worse?) of the criminal element of MS, on an historic basis.

They have such short memories.

It's not that they have short memories - they just don't care. Look at Walmart. One of the worst violators of civil and workers rights on the planet - yet people still pack their stores day and night. People don't care unless it directly affects them - and then there's hell to pay.

I am just curious to see what this "big news" is - as far as tablets go - the ONLY product, of MS, that I use willingly is MS Office. And, if OO ever gets to the point it can really match the power of MS Office I'll switch completely from that too.

I'd buy an iPad before I bought an MS tablet. I am thinking about installing Ubuntu 12 on my tablet now just see if it can be done and how well it'll work. Plenty of how to's out there now for it.

[vasa1]

... as long as their core products (Windows and Office) are still essential they'll keep chugging along.

Essential? ???

[ExSuSEusr]

Seems it was indeed a tablet..

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iJHh5ug4NyrI6w6p_J1wPrkHq-aA?docId=d2a5dd67fbed4f568d5098f03487d096

[KiwiNZ]

Essential? ???

For professionals and Corporates MS Office is essential.

[Copper Bezel]

Often for students, too, although LibreOffice and Google Documents can sometimes fill in.

[ddarsow]

A Microsoft Tablet? Running Windows? Just think, you get Windows, maybe MS Office, and thousands and thousands of pre-built, ready-made viruses all good to go. I'm sure Norton is dreaming big tonight. I'll cross my fingers for them.

Ah Norton....
The Mother of All Viruses...

[HansKisaragi]

Totally not interested in this.

[Bandit]

Personally, I boycott absolutely, anything MS. They have done so much to deserve the disgust of the world.

Too bad MS zealots just don't get the reality (or won't admit, which is worse?) of the criminal element of MS, on an historic basis.
...........

I feel the same way. But also Apple has been just a bad these past few years as well. I got no love for either company and personally dont want their software on my PC.

EDIT:
About their tablet. How is that thing going to function? Anyone see a RESET button?

[3rdalbum]

Almost nobody wants a Windows Phone.

Almost nobody wants Windows 8.

Almost nobody has bought the tablets running Windows 7.

The combination of Windows 8, with the Windows Phone interface and lack of applications, running on a tablet, appears destined to fail.

I like the keyboard concept; I really like it a lot. But probably 25% of the Intel-based tablets will end off with Ubuntu :-)

[Grenage]

Anything that brings further competition to the market is good. I wouldn't be surprised to see MS tablets take off in the business world, but I would be surprised to see much impact on the home market; Android and Apple (especially Apple) have got that nailed.

[Paqman]

It's a smart design. The keyboard is easy to keep around and easy to ignore, and that combined with the Windows RT OS design means a device that's basically an iPad for content consumption that can get serious for content creation. I don't want my next PC to be made by Microsoft or running their software because of the restrictions involved, but in every other sense, the new Surface is what I'd want out of a PC.

Me too. I've been waiting for an ARM replacement for my netbook(s) to come along, and it's been a while. OEMs were always going to wait until Windows had a decent ARM version. If we can ride roughshod over the whole UEFI issue and slap Ubuntu on it ok then it'd be a great device. Other manufacturers will probably copy it to some degree as well, so there should be some choice besides buying from Microsoft.

[fatality_uk]

Has anyone seen the launch video? Scares the bejesus out of me! I mean David Cronenberg could have directed that.

[vasa1]

For professionals and Corporates MS Office is essential.

"Essential" is a condition we create for ourselves.

[Dragonbite]

It looks awesome, if they price it right I can see these things going mainstream. I'd love to pick up one of the intel ones.
This is what Windows 8 was meant for.

Definitely go for the Intel version. The ARM version of Windows 8 (Windows RT) currently does not allow for any non-Microsoft applications to be installed on it!

HTG Explains: What Is Windows RT & What Does It Mean To Me? (http://www.howtogeek.com/116637/htg-explains-what-is-windows-rt-what-does-it-mean-to-me/)
However, you can't run non-Microsoft applications on a Windows RT desktop. You might assume that this is because desktop applications just haven't been compiled for the ARM architecture yet and developers just need to update them. This would be true, but Microsoft won't allow third-party applications on the Windows RT desktop. In other words: The Windows RT desktop is locked-down and only for Microsoft applications. You can't install non-Microsoft desktop applications.

So I expect them to push the ARM version over the Intel version as it allows them to keep current competitors (Google) off of the platform.

MS Technology isn't bad at all (Office, VS, SkyDrive) though I am definitely less than happy about their leadership.

Of course, this brings up the classic hacker game once it is released: HOW LONG BEFORE SOMEBODY HAS LINUX RUNNING ON IT!?!

UPDATE:

Microsoft announces Surface Windows tablets, leaves unanswered questions (http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cracking-open/microsoft-announces-surface-windows-tablets-leaves-unanswered-questions/655)

Windows RT tablets will be 9.3mm thick and weigh just over 1.49 pounds. Along with the features mentioned above, they will feature a 31.5 Wh battery, microSD, USB 2.0, and Micro HD Video. They will be available in 32 GB and 64 GB versions.

Unfortunately, Microsoft didn’t announced the tablet’s retail price. The company would only say that the price of Windows RT Surface models would be comparable to other ARM tablets (think between $400 and $600).
Surface for Windows 8 Pro tablets will have Intel processors and run the Windows 8 Pro operating system. They will be 13.5mm think and weigh just under 2.0 pounds. The tablet will have a 42 Wh battery, microSDXC, USB 3.0, and Mini DisplayPort Video. It will be available in 64 GB and 128 GB versions. Again, the company didn’t announce specific pricing for these tablets, but they did say Surface for Windows 8 Pro tablets would be comparable to Intel Ultrabook-class PCs (likely around $1,000).

[ade234uk]

Apart from having to use Windows for work, I don't think I will be installing any Microsoft products on my home machine any time soon. After 7 or 8 hours stuck in front of a Windows machine, using Ubuntu is a relief lol.

This Unit looks OK, but for me I will stick with my laptop, I can install what I want on it.

[samalex]

Engadget has the full presentation online, and though I'm about 35 minutes into it I have to say I'm VERY impressed. I haven't ran Windows at home in well over 10 years, but if the price point is low enough I think they might have a fine competitor to the iPad. This device seems to be the best of both worlds, being tablet yet full PC.

The one thing I don't like about most of the popular tablets is they're tablets. This new MS device is a table yet it's a full desktop, which is where the iPad and most other tablets fall short. I've seen the presentations from Ubuntu about their devices that can be both a tablet/smartphone and PC, but until something like that comes to fruition the Surface seems to be a winner.

What I like:
- Stylus for writing -- this is NICE!
- Keyboard and stand built in
- Dual antennas
- Dual camera (front and back)
- Front camera is tilted.. hate seeing the top of people's head with most laptop webcams.
- Pro version is Intel based which is nice, and maybe Linux will install on it for this :)

There's not much I didn't like, but given the presentation was from MS I'll wait to see what others say about the device. If MS can get the price point down to $300-$500 I bet it'll tear into the market in a major way, but they said the Pro version would be comparable to other ultra-thin notebooks so I'm betting it's closer to $1000-$1200.

I'll be watching this for sure.

[sffvba[e0rt]

i5 on a tablet... awesome power but I have to wonder on battery life.

Looks good IMO.


404

edit: Oh, and I have never owned a piece of MS hardware that wasn't really well made and solid.

[Eiji Takanaka]

somewhat relevant lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njos57IJf-0

I'm on linux bitch i thought you gnu.....lol awesome.




(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njos57IJf-0)

[Eiji Takanaka]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn7-fVtT16k&feature=related

Would say it's harsh on Hawkings, but to be fair he pwned Einstein.

"Ripping holes in you bigger than the hole in your black-hole theory was"

Genius.

[trivialpackets]

I have to say that I'm a bit intrigued and impressed with the innovation in this product having just watched the keynote. With that said, my only real concern for me having one is that you seem to have 2 options, use it as a tablet or use it on a table. Not sure how the kickstand would work on my lap, but that's a pretty small issue. Should be interesting.

[Dragonbite]

I have to say that I'm a bit intrigued and impressed with the innovation in this product having just watched the keynote. With that said, my only real concern for me having one is that you seem to have 2 options, use it as a tablet or use it on a table. Not sure how the kickstand would work on my lap, but that's a pretty small issue. Should be interesting.

I was thinking the same thing, it isn't conducive of being used like a laptop on the couch!

[Paqman]

i5 on a tablet... awesome power but I have to wonder on battery life.


The low power versions of the Ivy Bridge chips coming out in a few months are 17W TDP, which is comparable to an Atom. Even the ones available now are about 35W IIRC.

[KiwiNZ]

"Essential" is a condition we create for ourselves.

And by the environment we operate and whom we must share and do business with.

[thatguruguy]

For professionals and Corporates MS Office is essential.

I'm an attorney, and use LibreOffice. Are you saying I'm doing something wrong? Should I just quit now, since I'm not using MS Office?

[KiwiNZ]

I'm an attorney, and use LibreOffice. Are you saying I'm doing something wrong? Should I just quit now, since I'm not using MS Office?

Ever heard of exceptions to a rule?

[eddier]

Using Windows8 = Oh dear,you lose! I wonder which of the many (mostly limited) versions of Win8 will be available and what the various price premiums will be.

eddie

[alexfish]

I'm an attorney, and use LibreOffice. Are you saying I'm doing something wrong? Should I just quit now, since I'm not using MS Office?
possible Exception to the rule.

If as in "I" , if I use open-source and part of it was your contribution and I profit by its means , what would you expect me to do.?

[smellyman]

I'm an attorney, and use LibreOffice. Are you saying I'm doing something wrong? Should I just quit now, since I'm not using MS Office?

...and if the world swiched to LibreOffice tomorrow the world will still spin and perhaps be better off.

MS Office being "essential" is only because people keep buying and using it and it's interoperablity stinks.

[KiwiNZ]

...and if the world swiched to LibreOffice tomorrow the world will still spin and perhaps be better off.

MS Office being "essential" is only because people keep buying and using it and it's interoperablity stinks.

I would agree with this if there were a viable alternative to MS Office.

[smellyman]

I would agree with this if there were a viable alternative to MS Office.

in your opinion....

[KiwiNZ]

in your opinion....

Yes and the opinion of someone who authorized the trial of MS Office alternatives in a large enterprise and eventually stooped the trial and declined the release due to the failure of the products and trial.

My opinion has been developed following extensive commercial experience with MS Office alternatives.

[Bandit]

Yes and the opinion of someone who authorized the trial.............................

I am going to have to agree with Smelly on this one. MS has been forcing that mess on everyone like a drug dealer trying to get everyone hooked. Not to mention drugs are bad too..

[ExSuSEusr]

Open Office is a joke compared to MS Office. That's all there is to it. As much as I hate that company (and believe me I do) - even *I* have to admit they broke the mold with that product. There is no "alternative" that even comes close. I don't know why people can't just admit that. It's fine to be in love with open source and support it anyway you or I can. But, to let fanboi'ism blind people of the obvious is just.... I don't know.

Of course all anyone can bring up to compare is... "but but but you can save files as PDF!" Yay! Woopidoo... that's nothing compared to what programs like PowerPoint can do.

[KiwiNZ]

I am going to have to agree with Smelly on this one. MS has been forcing that mess on everyone like a drug dealer trying to get everyone hooked. Not to mention drugs are bad too..

In your opinion.....;)

[thatguruguy]

Open Office is a joke compared to MS Office. That's all there is to it. As much as I hate that company (and believe me I do) - even *I* have to admit they broke the mold with that product. There is no "alternative" that even comes close. I don't know why people can't just admit that. It's fine to be in love with open source and support it anyway you or I can. But, to let fanboi'ism blind people of the obvious is just.... I don't know.

Of course all anyone can bring up to compare is... "but but but you can save files as PDF!" Yay! Woopidoo... that's nothing compared to what programs like PowerPoint can do.

I'm sure PowerPoint can do amazing things. However, I have to sit through PowerPoint presentation a year (due to the requirement to earn continuing education credits), and 99% of them use the same format, with text over blue-on-blue backgrounds with the occasional clip art thrown in.

Microsoft Word can do really cool stuff, too, but it doesn't make a single person a better writer by using it. In the law, at least, the formats of briefs are closely constrained by the courts, and the documents generated are fairly basic. I've also worked in the medical industry, and the documents generated were also pretty basic in format.

In both of those cases, most people (at least in my experience) primarily use the most basic functions. Although advanced users may benefit from the expanded tools available in Microsoft Office compared to the open source alternatives, I question whether the advanced tools are really needed by most users.

[KiwiNZ]

Powerpoint and all copies should be banned, death by Powerpoint is cruel and inhumane

[alexfish]

I'm sure PowerPoint can do amazing things. However, I have to sit through PowerPoint presentation a year (due to the requirement to earn continuing education credits), and 99% of them use the same format, with text over blue-on-blue backgrounds with the occasional clip art thrown in.

Microsoft Word can do really cool stuff, too, but it doesn't make a single person a better writer by using it. In the law, at least, the formats of briefs are closely constrained by the courts, and the documents generated are fairly basic. I've also worked in the medical industry, and the documents generated were also pretty basic in format.

In both of those cases, most people (at least in my experience) primarily use the most basic functions. Although advanced users may benefit from the expanded tools available in Microsoft Office compared to the open source alternatives, I question whether the advanced tools are really needed by most users.

I can remember sometimes,;)

When the mind gets bored it has a habit of falling asleep. "well mine did".

some how to my tutor's amazement , I still passed

[thatguruguy]

Powerpoint and all copies should be banned, death by Powerpoint is cruel and inhumane

This, this, a thousand times this.

[neu5eeCh]

I would agree with this if there were a viable alternative to MS Office.

WordPerfect is a viable alternative to Word. Word isn't even in the same ballpark as WordPerfect. Never was. Never has been. It's just a pity that company after company has so spectacularly mismanaged the software.

[KiwiNZ]

WordPerfect is a viable alternative to Word. Word isn't even in the same ballpark as WordPerfect. Never was. Never has been. It's just a pity that company after company has so spectacularly mismanaged the software.

Wordperfect is a Dinosaur

[alexfish]

Wordperfect is a Dinosaur

Remember when Courting ("Where is the blushing smiley")

she had to do a test , can just imagine , it's "not what your thinking"

and said "I prefer the golf ball" . I thought she was going to join me in golfing.

I am still waiting "think not said he" ;)

[tjeremiah]

Gizmodo : Microsoft Surface Just Made the MacBook Air and the iPad Look Obsolete (http://gizmodo.com/5919521/microsoft-surface-just-made-the-macbook-air-and-the-ipad-obsolete)

[ExSuSEusr]

It's an ultra thin laptop... doesn't even have a CD ROM.

Why is Apple still superior? Well Linux and Apple? 'Cause in about 12 months when people are having their ID's stolen from malware and viruses that have infected that POS program called an OS.....

I'll stop there before my hatred of that company gets my BP up...

[KiwiNZ]

Gizmodo : Microsoft Surface Just Made the MacBook Air and the iPad Look Obsolete (http://gizmodo.com/5919521/microsoft-surface-just-made-the-macbook-air-and-the-ipad-obsolete)

I am not sure I would go that far.

[Dragonbite]

in your opinion....

Funny thing is all the people judging against Microsoft Office even though they don't use it. As well as those that discount OpenOffice and LibreOffice without giving it a full spin.

Sounds kinda like people for/against Unity, Gnome-shell, Mono, KDE, etc.. etc.. etc..


I'm sure PowerPoint can do amazing things. However, I have to sit through PowerPoint presentation a year (due to the requirement to earn continuing education credits), and 99% of them use the same format, with text over blue-on-blue backgrounds with the occasional clip art thrown in.

And so Office sucks because you haven't seen one good PowerPoint presentation? I'm sure there is one (probably only one) out there but it isn't the fault of the application.


Microsoft Word can do really cool stuff, too, but it doesn't make a single person a better writer by using it.

Is Excel/Calc supposed to make you better at math? Is spell checker supposed to make you better at spelling? To expect a program to make somebody a better writer needs to take a more realistic view of what software does, and what it does NOT!



In both of those cases, most people (at least in my experience) primarily use the most basic functions. Although advanced users may benefit from the expanded tools available in Microsoft Office compared to the open source alternatives, I question whether the advanced tools are really needed by most users.

Cater to the masses and give them the opportunity to do what they (individually) want to, or go with "good enough" for the majority of people (as if that can accurately be determined)? Decisions, decisions.

Personally, I prefer to have the features available and to use or not use them at MY leisure, than to force the world to use something that meets my needs.


Gizmodo : Microsoft Surface Just Made the MacBook Air and the iPad Look Obsolete (http://gizmodo.com/5919521/microsoft-surface-just-made-the-macbook-air-and-the-ipad-obsolete)

Of course that title and article is not hyped up any to get the attention (and eyeballs) of people, is it?:lolflag:

[CharlesA]

Why is Apple still superior? Well Linux and Apple? 'Cause in about 12 months when people are having their ID's stolen from malware and viruses that have infected that POS program called an OS.....

The weakest link is always the user.

In any case, enough MS raging before this gets bumped to Recurring. :p

[thatguruguy]

I'm flattered that there are people who are so impressed by me that they feel compelled to respond to what I've written as though it were in a vacuum, without any context whatsoever. The issue raised was whether or not Microsoft Office is "essential." Not whether it is "good" or "full of really excellent features" or "capable of making you a really good sandwich while simultaneously mowing your lawn." I was responding to the issue of whether it is "essential."


And so Office sucks because you haven't seen one good PowerPoint presentation? I'm sure there is one (probably only one) out there but it isn't the fault of the application.
At no point did I state that Microsoft Office "sucks." Those are your words, not mine. Nor was that my point. My point, to be as clear as possible, is that most people only use the most basic functions of PowerPoint. If the extra features aren't being used, it can't be claimed that they are "essential."

Is Excel/Calc supposed to make you better at math? Is spell checker supposed to make you better at spelling? To expect a program to make somebody a better writer needs to take a more realistic view of what software does, and what it does NOT!
I have no such expectation, nor did I express any such expectation. My point was that the extra features included in Word can't lead to better content, so the only question is whether they lead to a better presentation of the content. As I went on to point out, however (which you for some reason omitted in your "response"), the format of documents in at least some fields (I mentioned the legal and medical fields, although I assume there are others) is somewhat constrained. Since content isn't improved by the extended features of Word, and the presentation of the content is limited by other factors, it can't be claimed that the extra features of Word are "essential."

Cater to the masses and give them the opportunity to do what they (individually) want to, or go with "good enough" for the majority of people (as if that can accurately be determined)? Decisions, decisions.

Personally, I prefer to have the features available and to use or not use them at MY leisure, than to force the world to use something that meets my needs.
As it happens, I don't care what you use. Seriously. I'd be interested in how you divined that I'm trying to "force the world" to use anything. I was only addressing the issue of whether or not Microsoft Office is "essential," not whether it is "desired by the masses."

[Copper Bezel]

And so Office sucks because you haven't seen one good PowerPoint presentation? I'm sure there is one (probably only one) out there but it isn't the fault of the application.
It enables them to make Powerpoint presentations, which is the problem. = ) There just have to be better ways of doing slideshows. (Prezi, while cute, is not it.)

The thing that makes MS Office better than LibreOffice is not advanced features. It's just a better application suite, particularly in terms of the efficiency of the interface. Or at least, Word is over Writer - the full-window File menu is better than menu items that lead to dialog boxes. The live preview and mini toolbar are faster ways of formatting text. The minimized ribbon is thinner than a toolbar and never shifts the text around when you, say, move the cursor into a table, as the automatic toolbars in LO do. It's better at doing simple things quickly.


Of course that title and article is not hyped up any to get the attention (and eyeballs) of people, is it?
No kidding. The entire Macbook Air is still thinner than the Surface Pro sans keyboard and can sit on the user's lap, after all, and we know nothing about battery life for the Surface. Those are potentially important features.

The writer also has an ax to grind regarding Apple's slow, iterative changes and specifically the iOS interface design language (and although I think he's right that iOS's is more likely to seem dated in the near future, it's hardly the game-changing feature of either product.)

Edit:


I'm flattered that there are people who are so impressed by me that they feel compelled to respond to what I've written as though it were in a vacuum, without any context whatsoever. The issue raised was whether or not Microsoft Office is "essential." Not whether it is "good" or "full of really excellent features" or "capable of making you a really good sandwich while simultaneously mowing your lawn." I was responding to the issue of whether it is "essential."
Yeah, and best not to lose sight of that original point. It is, of course, essential for some of its users, but not, I'd say, most.

[vasa1]

And by the environment we operate and whom we must share and do business with.
Heroin is essential to an addict. Certain brands of mineral water are essential to a certain class of people. So is caviar.

This could be argued endlessly. No doubt there will be people who do not wish to see any difference between wants and needs.

Anyway, it appears that arguments that a particular software suite is essential are an essential part of publicity.

Note that I'm not in anyway implying that other products are better.

[vasa1]

Microsoft’s Surface tablet is exactly that “ToasterFridge.” (http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/microsofts-surface-tablet-do-we-have-an-ipad-killer/)

[ExSuSEusr]

Heroin is essential to an addict. Certain brands of mineral water are essential to a certain class of people. So is caviar.

This could be argued endlessly. No doubt there will be people who do not wish to see any difference between wants and needs.

Anyway, it appears that arguments that a particular software suite is essential are an essential part of publicity.

Note that I'm not in anyway implying that other products are better.


You do realize that "Linux" isn't just an OS, right?

[AllRadioisDead]

You do realize that "Linux" isn't just an OS, right?

Actually, Linux isn't an OS at all.

[smellyman]

Yes and the opinion of someone who authorized the trial of MS Office alternatives in a large enterprise and eventually stooped the trial and declined the release due to the failure of the products and trial.

My opinion has been developed following extensive commercial experience with MS Office alternatives.

I am not going to list my qualifications, but if MS office had better interoperablitiy then it is not essential in most businesses including many enterprise companies.

what makes it essential is all the small to medium sized companies not dumping MS office.

I don't care if it is google docs, caligra, LO, ooo, gedit or what have you.

It is even more frustrating at the individual home user level who feel like they need to send everything as .doc too.

[Grenage]

I am not going to list my qualifications, but if MS office had better interoperablitiy then it is not essential in most businesses including many enterprise companies.

It's rarely the interface itself, rather that so many business systems are designed to tie into Word/Excel/Outlook for export and handling. I use Libreoffice/Gedit/Google/whatever without issue, but they would be useless for most of the office workers.

It was bad enough moving some people from CAD to an alternative (I couldn't justify the licence for people who just draw the odd line...), and that didn't even tie in with other products!

People who think there's a viable swap in the majority of medium+ companies are either blinded idealists, or woefully inexperienced. It's not in software companies' interests to provide an easy escape route, and shockingly, it didn't become the number one suite due to strong-arm tactics. I'd like to add that I don't actually like or use MSO, so am not a fanboy.

Man did that go off-topic.

[Paqman]

It's an ultra thin laptop... doesn't even have a CD ROM.


Or a floppy drive!
And it runs on that new-fangled electricity! Where do I shovel in the coal?!?


The issue raised was whether or not Microsoft Office is "essential."

Really wishing I'd written "as long as people feel it is essential" instead, but I thought that was implied. We all know there are alternatives, and you can argue about how complete they are. The reality is that the alternatives will be fine for some use cases and not others. Coupled to the hassle, man-hours and expense of switching a core productivity suite in a large organisation compared to the limited payoff and you can explain most of the inertia.

However, we all know all this. Does this dead horse really need another thrash around the Cafe?

[AllRadioisDead]

It's an ultra thin laptop... doesn't even have a CD ROM.

Why is Apple still superior? Well Linux and Apple? 'Cause in about 12 months when people are having their ID's stolen from malware and viruses that have infected that POS program called an OS.....

I'll stop there before my hatred of that company gets my BP up...

You hate Microsoft because the most popular O/S in the world is also the largest target of malware?

[tjeremiah]

Or a floppy drive!
And it runs on that new-fangled electricity! Where do I shovel in the coal?!?





very funny :lolflag:

[ikt]

You hate Microsoft because the most popular O/S in the world is also the largest target of malware?

This is a bad argument that spreads easily because in theory it makes sense, in reality not so much.

The popularity of a system does not define its susceptibility to malware.

If we apply the "it's popular, therefore it's more likely to get cracked" line why have Blizzard and Google not had their databases leaked, but companies like Linked in, myspace, groker, and other poorly secured website have?

Why do millions of unimportant websites get defaced (http://www.zone-h.org/archive) but google and facebook haven't?

Why does linux, which runs on almost all of the most powerful computers in the world, and a majority of the worlds internet servers continue to not be plagued by the lol worthy malware that was spreading through Microsofts systems like a house on fire? Many reasons but you'll have to do research to find out cuz I'm lazy :p

[Dragonbite]

After watching the video of the announcement, Ballmer just doesn't produce any excitement or energy at all!

Usually when something is announced and pulled on stage there is at least some reaction from the audience! You could almost hear crickets chirping.

The audience got more energized after Ballmer got off the stage.

He just doesn't have the charisma to do things like this.

Can't expect him to pull a Steve Jobs, but still it's rather telling.

Despite all the hype and talk about the case and "organic" shape, like usual it is going to come down to price: competitive or over-priced.

[Dragonbite]

Oh, another MS press release, but this one is specifically for the Windows Phone. Taking place 9:00AM in San Francisco (wasn't the Surface's release in SF?).

(figured it is relevant considering the Title doesn't mention WHICH press release :lolflag:)

So far, still haven't seen any live, working Windows 7 Phones in these parts! Do they really exist?

[Paqman]

Ballmer just doesn't produce any excitement or energy at all!


That's because Ballmer is a massive fun-vacuum. Anything that gets near enough to cross his event horizon just has the life sucked right out of it.

You know it's bad when someone makes Bill Gates look hip, but he does.

[Dr. C]

Yes and the opinion of someone who authorized the trial of MS Office alternatives in a large enterprise and eventually stooped the trial and declined the release due to the failure of the products and trial.

My opinion has been developed following extensive commercial experience with MS Office alternatives.

Giving a small number of users say 3% in a enterprise a different office suite is doomed to faliure regardless of which office suite is in use and is which office suite is the trail if there is any form of internal colaboration in document development. Even different versions of the same office suite will cause serious problems.

[AllRadioisDead]

I am going to have to agree with Smelly on this one. MS has been forcing that mess on everyone like a drug dealer trying to get everyone hooked. Not to mention drugs are bad too..

They're not forcing it on anyone.

If you don't want it, don't buy it. You won't find a better Office Suite though.

People buy it because there's really no alternative. Sure, there's LibreOffice, but it has a long way to go.

The Ribbon interface is clean and intuitive, it has guaranteed compatibility with all document types, and it has a lot of features that LibreOffice lacks.

It's powerful software, and they have every right to charge for it.

[Dr. C]

They're not forcing it on anyone.

If you don't want it, don't buy it. You won't find a better Office Suite though.

People buy it because there's really no alternative. Sure, there's LibreOffice, but it has a long way to go.

The Ribbon interface is clean and intuitive, it has guaranteed compatibility with all document types, and it has a lot of features that LibreOffice lacks.

It's powerful software, and they have every right to charge for it.

Actually they are. The tablet that is the subject of this thread will be sold with a locked bootloader and with a version of Windows (Windows 8 RT) that does not allow the instalation of Free Libre Open Source Software such as LibreOffice.

[MadmanRB]

Actually they are. The tablet that is the subject of this thread will be sold with a locked bootloader and with a version of Windows (Windows 8 RT) that does not allow the instalation of Free Libre Open Source Software such as LibreOffice.

Exactly, people should be allowed to use whatever software they want.
This is more anti competitive mumbo jumbo

[KiwiNZ]

Actually they are. The tablet that is the subject of this thread will be sold with a locked bootloader and with a version of Windows (Windows 8 RT) that does not allow the instalation of Free Libre Open Source Software such as LibreOffice.


I have read the press releases several times and checked with a MSFT Account Manager and purchase of these units are not compulsory purchase.

[MadmanRB]

I have read the press releases several times and checked with a MSFT Account Manager and purchase of these units are not compulsory purchase.

Yes but the fact they are trying to do this nonsense is proof of Microsofts anti competitive nature

[KiwiNZ]

Yes but the fact they are trying to do this nonsense is proof of Microsofts anti competitive nature

No it does not.

[MadmanRB]

Oh how silly of me the restrictions on what software you can and cannot use is a godsend, Microsoft iz teh gretest.
Again one should use whatever software they want, just because you people on the pro secure boot club like only Microsoft products doesnt mean the rest of us have to.

[Copper Bezel]

Well, what it does is create an artificial scarcity and monetize software freedom. Want a machine you can control? Pony up for the more expensive Intel model. Want your app to use the pretty Metro interface? Distribute through Microsoft and pay your tribute.

It's an aggressively commercial way of handling software and the extreme opposite of FOSS. You can't well expect Linux users to much appreciate that.

There's no question that the app store model is a better way of distributing software or that secure boot is a good thing. "Nudging" users by simply making the app store the easiest way to install software (which ... duh) and requiring OEMs to ship with secure boot enabled create good defaults that benefit users. Locking out the alternatives does not confer any benefit to the end user and certainly does create incentives that benefit MS.

[Dr. C]

It is a discriminatory trade practice on the part of Microsoft and a lot worse than the "tax on IE 7" case and will very likely be found illegal.

Microsoft has delibertaly excluded sofware that is licensed under the GPL, AGPL, LGPL etc from thier ARM store. Now here is the interestng part a very significant number of the products today in the market place that are competitive with Microsoft products today involve the GPL or a similar license in one form or another.

[Copper Bezel]

Think about the difference between the situation that brought Microsoft to an antitrust suit, and then the situation now with iOS. The rules just aren't the same today. No one is going to bring a suit against Microsoft on this and win. Frankly, I really think Linuxratty is right - you choose between Apple, Microsoft, and Google when you buy the device, and what OS software you can run, what applications you can run on top of that, and what media and services you can access with that software in turn, all depend entirely on which gadget you bought.

I mean, Microsoft's Windows Store rules are taken directly from Apple's App Store. They added the bit about GPL software, sure, but selling through the iOS app store was already determined to be incompatible with the GPL itself, anyway.

[Dr. C]

Think about the difference between the situation that brought Microsoft to an antitrust suit, and then the situation now with iOS. The rules just aren't the same today. No one is going to bring a suit against Microsoft on this and win. Frankly, I really think Linuxratty is right - you choose between Apple, Microsoft, and Google when you buy the device, and what OS software you can run, what applications you can run on top of that, and what media and services you can access with that software in turn, all depend entirely on which gadget you bought.

I mean, Microsoft's Windows Store rules are taken directly from Apple's App Store. They added the bit about GPL software, sure, but selling through the iOS app store was already determined to be incompatible with the GPL itself, anyway.

I know. This assumes that Apple will emerge unscathed here it very likely will not. Now consider this: If an anti trust ruling in Europe for example forces the opening up of locked app stores. Who stands to loose and gain the most between Microsoft and Apple? The paradox here is that Microsoft could actually loose the anti trust case here and yet emerge as the winner.

[ExSuSEusr]

The problem is that Apple isn't doing anything wrong. Yes, they have iTunes, yes hey are proprietary, but they make their OWN line - they're in their own little world. They aren't pulling a MS but openly trying to monopolize EVERY damn computer on the planet.

There is an enormous difference between MS and Apple.... ENORMOUS.

[Paqman]

Interesting opinion piece from Matt Asay (ex-Canonical) in which he makes the point that Surface is pitching the reference design for Win8 tablets at too high a price point, given that all the growth will come in the BRICs:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/06/26/brics_love_android/