Voyager prepares to go interstellar

[Smilax]

whats left!

intergalactic!!!!

but not for a long long long time.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18458478

[Peripheral Visionary]

And in a few hundred years we'll meet again, this time as "Vger seeks the creator." (the reference is here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Motion_Picture)).

[drawkcab]

http://nozama.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54ed05fc2883301156f9a6c99970c-400wi

[MisterGaribaldi]

http://nozama.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54ed05fc2883301156f9a6c99970c-400wi

Yes, and we all know how that ended.

I still don't understand why Qo'noS would have only dispatched three K't'inga class cruisers to intercept. I mean, the thing was 2 AUs in size. You'd think it would have rated at least a fleet.

[Smilax]

what i don't get is after v ger learnt all it could in the universe, it still couldn't rub the dirt of it's own name....

silly v ger.


but still pretty epic film thou.

[Paqman]

In all seriousness (barring major mishap) after all trace on Earth of our civlisation is gone, the seas have boiled away and the expanding Sun has scorched the planet bare, probes like Voyager will be the last trace that we existed. There's very little to stop them simply sailing along through the emptiness of space for millions (or billions) of years as a relatively cohesive unit.

[wilee-nilee]

In all seriousness (barring major mishap) after all trace on Earth of our civilisation is gone, the seas have boiled away and the expanding Sun has scorched the planet bare, probes like Voyager will be the last trace that we existed. There's very little to stop them simply sailing along through the emptiness of space for millions (or billions) of years as a relatively cohesive unit.

Along with all the radio frequency noise generated from earth, Ralph and Alice Kramden live forever.

[Paqman]

Along with all the radio frequency noise generated from earth, Ralph and Alice Kramden live forever.

That'll peter out to nothing at a certain distance (signal strength is inverse square law IIRC?). Physical artifacts like Voyager will still be recognisably the product of intelligence until it's corroded away to a cloud of dust. In the stable vacuum of space, that will take a really, really, really long time. As long as it doesn't fly too close to a star it'll be around for eons.

EDIT: Actually it might also be cumulative strikes from zillions of micrometeorites that finally finish it off, but any aliens that came across it would still be able to recognise the anomalous mix of elements moving at high velocity as technological.

[MisterGaribaldi]

EDIT: Actually it might also be cumulative strikes from zillions of micrometeorites that finally finish it off, but any aliens that came across it would still be able to recognise the anomalous mix of elements moving at high velocity as technological.

Until, of course, something like this happens:

http://www.daviddarling.info/images/Pioneer_10_and_Klingon_bird_of_prey.jpg


NOTE: It seems likely such a scenario for Voyager 6 would have been eminently preferable to Commander Barak, at least a couple hundred other offiers and enlisted, and of course a certain Starfleet captain and navigator.

[Paqman]

NOTE: It seems likely such a scenario for Voyager 6 would have been eminently preferable to Commander Barak, at least a couple hundred other offiers and enlisted, and of course a certain Starfleet captain and navigator.

Dude, I think Star Trek may have overwritten part of your brain.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

I am amazed the electronic circuits are still working after 35 years. I can't keep a computer for 8 years without something breaking.

Space has always interested me. I remember watch the first moon landing. I was working at NASA's Johnson Space Center when the first shuttle launched.

[Paqman]

I am amazed the electronic circuits are still working after 35 years. I can't keep a computer for 8 years without something breaking.


They're built to a pretty high standard. I did a MILSPEC High Reliability Hand Soldering course once, which was a spec originally developed by NASA. We had every single solder joint inspected under a microscope. Serious business.

[MisterGaribaldi]

Dude, I think Star Trek may have overwritten part of your brain.

Y'know, I'm glad you {resistance is futile} said that because *>kirK 2 SpoCk, it's two hours. R U ready?<}* I thought I was having a bit of ::)It's medICALLY 1mp0ssiblE(:: problems with my NeuroFS partition.

[KiwiNZ]

We all know who will destroy it

[forrestcupp]

We all know who will destroy it

The Vogons?

[KiwiNZ]

The Vogons?

Those puny bugs are nothing compared to the power of the dark side

[wilee-nilee]

That'll peter out to nothing at a certain distance (signal strength is inverse square law IIRC?). Physical artifacts like Voyager will still be recognisably the product of intelligence until it's corroded away to a cloud of dust. In the stable vacuum of space, that will take a really, really, really long time. As long as it doesn't fly too close to a star it'll be around for eons.

EDIT: Actually it might also be cumulative strikes from zillions of micrometeorites that finally finish it off, but any aliens that came across it would still be able to recognise the anomalous mix of elements moving at high velocity as technological.

With the size of the universe I think they have about the same likely hood of reaching aliens. ;)

[Paqman]

With the size of the universe I think they have about the same likely hood of reaching aliens. ;)

It does seem awfully quiet out there. The way things are looking it seems like there's a pretty good chance we'll never bump into anyone else even if we do manage to spread out beyond the solar system.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

They're built to a pretty high standard. I did a MILSPEC High Reliability Hand Soldering course once, which was a spec originally developed by NASA. We had every single solder joint inspected under a microscope. Serious business.

They also have redundant computers in case one fails.

The components are also MIL-SPEC. When I worked at NASA I used MIL-SPEC parts and I took their MIL-SPEC Soldering course.

Still, 35 years is a long time without someone being able to repair them. The electronics are also in a hostile environment with high energy particles.

It is interesting that the 6 computers on the voyager, half of them are redundant backup modules, have a total combined memory of about 64K Bytes.

[KiwiNZ]

It does seem awfully quiet out there. The way things are looking it seems like there's a pretty good chance we'll never bump into anyone else even if we do manage to spread out beyond the solar system.

Being not seen or recognised does not equate to not being there.

[Paqman]

Still, 35 years is a long time without someone being able to repair them.

Indeed, a certain element of luck needed. Something to be said for no vibration, negligible dust and (for the last few years at least) stable temperatures.



It is interesting that the 6 computers on the voyager, half of them are redundant backup modules, have a total combined memory of about 64K Bytes.

I heard a factoid a while back that a Furby had more processing power than the Lunar Module.

[wilee-nilee]

This morning I was listening to the son of Allen Tough the man who's site this is, kinda funny, on OPB/NPR radio. @39min
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/289/go-ask-your-father

Only one person tested for contact who had contacted the site. About 60 or so have tried to fake being alien as a joke mainly, from the interview.

The tested contact had a supposed radio frequency transmitter in their neck, upon testing after the removal of the tinfoil lined hat, nothing found. Apparently the imagined radio waves were a little to much at times, hence the lining.

http://ieti.org/

[Paqman]

Being not seen or recognised does not equate to not being there.

Never said it did. Given the size of the universe, it stretches credulity to think that life has only arisen once.

Flipside of the same coin: being there does not equate to being findable within the lifespan of a civilisation or species. Unless intelligent life is very common, I think the best we can hope for is long-distance communication with aliens, I doubt we'll ever meet any intelligent ones in the flesh.

[KiwiNZ]

Never said it did. Given the size of the universe, it stretches credulity to think that life has only arisen once.

Flipside of the same coin: being there does not equate to being findable within the lifespan of a civilisation or species. Unless intelligent life is very common, I think the best we can hope for is long-distance communication with aliens, I doubt we'll ever meet any intelligent ones in the flesh.

The key is recognisable

[Paqman]

The key is recognisable

True, that could well be a problem. The clever people at SETI do burn a certain amount of brain cycles on that one, and they make the point that there are certain fundamental facts that we would have in common. The laws of physics work the same for everybody in the universe, for example, which means that there are a finite number of ways the chemistry can organise itself. Spectrographic analysis of exoplanets should give us a pretty good idea which ones have weird or complicated processes going on that could be a biosphere, even if we're not actually able to chat with the inhabitants (or even tell them apart from the rocks).

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

...
EDIT: Actually it might also be cumulative strikes from zillions of micrometeorites that finally finish it off, but any aliens that came across it would still be able to recognise the anomalous mix of elements moving at high velocity as technological.

If aliens find it in interstellar space, then they would probably be capable of traveling at very high velocities. They would probably be measuring velocity in hundred thousand kilometers per second or hundred thousand miles per second; although, kilometers and miles wouldn't mean anything to them. I don't think they would think that 17 km per second (38,000 mph) is a high velocity. Comets in our own solar system travel faster that that. If the anomalous mix of elements were rare in the universe; then, we probably couldn't find enough of them for or technology to be sustained.

[Smilax]

and she's of.....

[Penguinnerd]

I think this is relevant information...
http://xkcd.com/384/

[Paqman]

I don't think they would think that 17 km per second (38,000 mph) is a high velocity.

It's a high velocity for a cloud of dust containing elements only found on planets to all be moving in the same direction in. It would imply the cloud was either propelled by something or at one time had it's own propulsion system. My point was that it should remain as recognisably technological even after it's taken a pretty substantial beating at the hands of time.

Pretty unlikely anyone would find it in interstellar space anyway, IMO. Much more likely to be spotted if it swung relatively close to someone's home.

[Paqman]

I think this is relevant information...
http://xkcd.com/384/

To be fair to Drake he created that equation as a talking point for a seminar, not as any kind of fundamental truth.

It's an interesting way to distill thinking, nothing more.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

It's a high velocity for a cloud of dust containing elements only found on planets to all be moving in the same direction...

What elements are only found on planets? By elements, do you mean compound or something else.

[SoFl W]

It is interesting that the 6 computers on the voyager, half of them are redundant backup modules, have a total combined memory of about 64K Bytes.

Didn't think there was any "computers", at least not any processor. I thought it was all discrete logic.

[SoFl W]

Pretty unlikely anyone would find it in interstellar space anyway, IMO. Much more likely to be spotted if it swung relatively close to someone's home.

Think about how little of a chance some intelligent life finding it is. If another civilization's craft flew past the earth 80 years ago we would never have know it. If it entered our atmosphere it would have burned.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

Didn't think there was any "computers", at least not any processor. I thought it was all discrete logic.

I did a little research into your comment. From the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory (http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/faq.html) website:

"There are three different computer types on the Voyager spacecraft and there are two of each kind. Total number of words among the six computers is about 32K.

Computer Command System (CCS) - 18-bit word, interrupt type processors (2) with 4096 words each of plated wire, non-volatile memory.

Flight Data System (FDS) - 16-bit word machine (2) with modular memories and 8198 words each

Attitude and Articulation Control System (AACS) - 18-bit word machines (2) with 4096 words each."

[Paqman]

What elements are only found on planets? By elements, do you mean compound or something else.

Well, you could find any element you wanted out there in space somewhere, but they form and interact in relatively predictable ways, and I'm pretty sure that if you ground Voyager into dust and peered at it's spectral lines it wouldn't match anything you normally see hurtling along in space. It would look "interesting" due to not being the product of any known natural process. So more the fact that certain elements would be seen in peculiar amounts and ratios than that the elements themselves are peculiar.


Think about how little of a chance some intelligent life finding it is. If another civilization's craft flew past the earth 80 years ago we would never have know it. If it entered our atmosphere it would have burned.

Absolutely, but whether it and its fellow probes are ever found or not, they will very likely be the last remaining artifacts to prove we existed. Eventually they'll all be disintegrated or fall into stars, and then there will be nothing.

[alphacrucis2]

Not just the Voyagers are heading out of the solar system. Pioneer 10 and 11 plus the New Horizons probe are headed for interstellar space. New Horizons will do a Pluto flypast on 14 July 2015.

Edit: Just reading up on New Horizons, it turns out that the third stage of the Atlas rocket that launched New Horizons is also on a hyperbolic solar system escape trajectory. It's going quite a bit slower than New Horizons or the Voyagers as it didn't get a gravity assist from Jupiter. So we will have so far sent five space probes plus one rocket third stage on their way to interstellar space.

[MisterGaribaldi]

I don't think it will take aliens having to grind Pioneers 10 and 11 or Voyagers I and II into a powder for them to realize they're not natural phenomena... Unless, of course, aliens are all retards. Or, very seriously blind at the minimum.

I think it will more likely go something like this...

Voyager I comes sailing on into some (by chance) inhabited system. Somewhere in the system, it gets detected (which probably means a higher tech level by that system's population than what we presently have here), and a research craft of some kind is dispatched to investigate. On board, two crew members watch it as it approaches.

Phil: Hmm... that's quite an interesting bit of space junk.
George: Indeed. Fascinating. I think it could just happen to be artificial.
Phil: Really? What makes you come to that conclusion?
George: Because, there are markings on it which say it was made "in China", whatever that is. Oh, yeah, and it has a ton of electronic systems on board, has a mildly radioactive module strung out on some kind of extension boom... and there's a big satellite dish on the one end of it. And it looks like it has some kind of camera lenses. And there's a gold disc on the side of it. But, y'know, it's just an off-handed guess.
Phil: Maybe we should... grind it down into a powder?
George: Good idea. Can't be too sure, can we?

[Paqman]

Er, dude. The point was that it would be recognisably artificial even if it were in bits.

It'll look better than you or I will in a billion years, but it won't look like it does now.

[SoFl W]

Don't forget about the rumored early 1960s USSR spacecraft that malfunctioned and flew away from earth. If it did exist it could have already exited the solar system, but there would be no way to track it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cosmonauts

I remember reading a story as a child about a Voyager like craft landing on another planet in another solar system. The inhabitants of the planet found the craft, some how the recording on the craft started playing, but it was of no use, the creatures were deaf ants.

[alphacrucis2]

Don't forget about the rumored early 1960s USSR spacecraft that malfunctioned and flew away from earth. If it did exist it could have already exited the solar system, but there would be no way to track it.



Not a chance. The Voyagers and Pioneers only escape from the solar system due to gravity assists from Jupiter (and Saturn in the case of the Voyagers and Pioneer 11). New Horizons is the only craft ever to be launched with enough energy to escape the solar system on its own. They still used a gravity assist from Jupiter to speed up the mission but it wasn't essential - just would have taken a couple of years longer if they had missed the launch window for the Jupiter assist.

[Paqman]

Not a chance. The Voyagers and Pioneers only escape from the solar system due to gravity assists from Jupiter (and Saturn in the case of the Voyagers and Pioneer 11). New Horizons is the only craft ever to be launched with enough energy to escape the solar system on its own. They still used a gravity assist from Jupiter to speed up the mission but it wasn't essential - just would have taken a couple of years longer if they had missed the launch window for the Jupiter assist.

Exactly. Even the five probes that do have enough smash to get away from the sun are still gravitationally bound to our galaxy, so they'll probably just end up bouncing around the Milky Way until we crash into Andromeda, at which point all bets are off.

[SoFl W]

Not a chance. The Voyagers and Pioneers only escape from the solar system due to gravity assists from Jupiter.

After I posted that I started thinking that the thrusters on the craft probably didn't have much power. I really don't think the Russians lost a several crafts but just a thought if a craft was sent away from earth in 1961.
You are thinking that the craft would be traveling along the orbit paths of the other planets, horizontally out to Pluto. What if the craft traveled vertically in relation to earth and not horizontally?

[Paqman]

After I posted that I started thinking that the thrusters on the craft probably didn't have much power. I really don't think the Russians lost a several crafts but just a thought if a craft was sent away from earth in 1961.
You are thinking that the craft would be traveling along the orbit paths of the other planets, horizontally out to Pluto. What if the craft traveled vertically in relation to earth and not horizontally?

The direction isn't so important, it's more about the speed*. There is a speed (called escape velocity) that you need to reach in order to get away from any large object. Go too slow relative to that object and the "drag" from that object's gravity will slow you down until eventually you get pulled back towards it. Exceed escape velocity and you can get away from it before it slows you down too much.

Earth has an escape velocity that you need to exceed to get into space, the sun has an even higher one that you need to exceed to leave the solar system. So you can launch things into space, but still have them unable to leave the sun's influence.

*Or more correctly velocity, if you get the difference.

[Smilax]

After I posted that I started thinking that the thrusters on the craft probably didn't have much power. I really don't think the Russians lost a several crafts but just a thought if a craft was sent away from earth in 1961.
You are thinking that the craft would be traveling along the orbit paths of the other planets, horizontally out to Pluto. What if the craft traveled vertically in relation to earth and not horizontally?

it would require more energy to put a craft into a polar orbit around the sun with radius 1AU than to achieve escape velocity from the sun along the plane of the orbits of the planets, and after you did this you would still need to have the energy to achieve escape velocity from this point, which would be the same energy required to escape from the sun along the plane of the orbits of the planets.. so

this is not a good idea if you wish to esacpe from suns gravity field

[Eiji Takanaka]

My friends are closer than you think...lol.

H-type harmonic cloning system energy uplink shutdown in process......

Almost time to rise and shine!

wE HEARD YOUR MESSAGE eARTH.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjijteu0gcQ&feature=related

[SoFl W]

We need to start working on this spacecraft (http://www.damninteresting.com/the-daedalus-starship/).

[mips]

We need to start working on this spacecraft (http://www.damninteresting.com/the-daedalus-starship/).

What e actually need to do is pay more attention to the spacecraft called Gaia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_(mythology)) orbiting Sol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_(mythology))