Using gnome classic on ubuntu 12.04

[samwillc]

Hi everyone,

I was wondering why someone would install ubuntu 12.04 unity and then use the gnome classic desktop rather than just use something like linux mint which already has the option to use it already built in? Does that not defeat the point of installing 12.04 in the first place?

If one is not going to use unity, then why use a distro that features it at all? I am still trying to decide what suits me best.

At the moment, I am using ubuntu 12.04 with gnome classic desktop with cairo dock for my navigation. I don't use unity, so I presume it doesn't need to be there, but would I miss out on any features or anything choosing linux mint over ubuntu 12.04?

Obviously, the support on this forum is great, so that would be one reason to continue using 12.04.

Does gnome run 'better' on linux mint? Still not sure what the difference is between mint and 12.04, even though I've used both over the weekend!

I've read through this and it would suggest ubuntu 12.04 is a better choice because of LTS, newer kernel etc...: http://www.itadmintools.com/2012/04/ubuntu-1204-vs-linux-mint-and-fedora.html

Any other ideas are more than appreciated, thanks.

Sam.

[black veils]

linux mint is soon to release their LTS version, a choice of cinnamon desktop or mate.


ultimately to answer your general questions, its really a matter of preference, some differences might not be noticeable, or matter to you. keep looking and see, but remember, new versions will be releasing. if you have some internet to waste, and patience, the RC's are already available, have a look to figure which will be more suited to you.


linux mint will have some of it's own features, like their update manager, that will be part of your decision. you can only know with some time really.


Edit:
my opinion is that you would probably be best with one of those linux mint editions, instead of ubuntu with a classic gnome look. unless you want more panel configuration options, you could try xubuntu haha.

[kansasnoob]

It's mostly a matter of personal preference. I happen to like Unity in some cases and prefer classic (no effects) (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1966370) in others.

One of the reasons for that has more to do with window managers than desktop environments. The standard Unity and Gnome classic sessions use Compiz but I maintain a lot of machines with P4M800 graphics and they won't run Compiz.

Those machines automatically fall back to using Unity-2D and it seems to "lag" a bit (the dashboard and some apps are quite slow opening, etc). But both Unity-2D and classic (no effects) use Metacity, and I find classic (no effects) to be very snappy on the aforementioned graphics with as little as a 1100mHz CPU and 1 GB of RAM :)

Mints Cinnamon DE is actually just an extension to gnome-shell which uses Mutter for a WM and I just don't care for it. Mints Mate DE is still based on gtk2 and I personally find that pointless.

But, at the end of the day, it's all a matter of personal choice.

[rewyllys]

linux mint is soon to release their LTS version, a choice of cinnamon desktop or mate. . . .
The Release Candidate of Linux Mint 13 (based on Ubuntu 12.04) is currently available from http://blog.linuxmint.com/

I installed it yesterday and have so far experienced zero problems with it.

The final release version of LM13 is due out by the end of May.

[samwillc]

For my needs though is it a matter of preference? I can achieve the same with either distro, except one uses gnome by default, the other uses unity.

Let's say I want to use gnome classic with cairo dock, with a global menu. So, which would be best as a base for this, ubuntu 12.04 or linux mint?

Maybe this is not a simple answer, but mint has gnome3 as native so surely that would be more ideal rather than installing next to unity? Or maybe it makes no difference whatsoever? Might run equally well on both, who knows.

Sam.

[rewyllys]

. . . .Let's say I want to use gnome classic with cairo dock, with a global menu. So, which would be best as a base for this, ubuntu 12.04 or linux mint?. . . .
I suggest that you try using Linux Mint 13RC with MATE, from a live DVD, and see how you like it.

IMHO, Mint with MATE offers better prospects for the future than trying to live with Unity, given that you like Gnome Classic.

[samwillc]

I suggest that you try using Linux Mint 13RC with MATE, from a live DVD, and see how you like it.

IMHO, Mint with MATE offers better prospects for the future than trying to live with Unity, given that you like Gnome Classic.

Ok I'll give it a try. It doesn't really matter what the DE offers as much, as long as I can get a dock and a global menu, I'm happy!

I don't like the windows look of the bar across the bottom, trying to move away from that, much prefer an auto hiding dock.

If I install the mint 13 RC, how would I update when the final version comes out? Don't want to copy all my files across and then find out I can't update without a complete reinstall. If that is the case, I will only copy bare minimal stuff across.

Thanks.

Sam.

[rewyllys]

. . . . If I install the mint 13 RC, how would I update when the final version comes out? Don't want to copy all my files across and then find out I can't update without a complete reinstall. If that is the case, I will only copy bare minimal stuff across.

Thanks.

Sam.
Although I always recommend a clean install (and keep my own "/home" directory on a separate partition from my "/" (root) directory's partition to make clean installs easy), I think that in the case of Linux Mint 13 you will be safe simply accepting the updates that Mint will supply to the 13RC version.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.:)

[samwillc]

Hi,

Watched a few videos of mate & cinnamon and don't really the look of them either.

Problem is.... it looks too much like windows for my liking.

The reason I moved away from windows was for a more adventurous experience! I can't believe with all the options I still can't get the look I want lol.

Maybe I'm just too fussy but one day I'll find one I love!

Sam.

[black veils]

then try Xubuntu ? you could configure where and how to have your panel(s), and add PPA for global menu , like this http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/xfce-global-menu-plugin-gets-a-ppa/

[kansasnoob]

For my needs though is it a matter of preference? I can achieve the same with either distro, except one uses gnome by default, the other uses unity.

Let's say I want to use gnome classic with cairo dock, with a global menu. So, which would be best as a base for this, ubuntu 12.04 or linux mint?

Maybe this is not a simple answer, but mint has gnome3 as native so surely that would be more ideal rather than installing next to unity? Or maybe it makes no difference whatsoever? Might run equally well on both, who knows.

Sam.

Arrgh, you're starting with a totally false premise saying:


For my needs though is it a matter of preference? I can achieve the same with either distro, except one uses gnome by default, the other uses unity.

Both Ubuntu and Mint use Gnome. Unity is based on Gnome, Mint Cinnamon is based on Gnome. Even Mint's Mate DE is based on Gnome but it's based on Gnome2/gtk2 so some older stuff works better, but some new stuff won't work at all.

Both Unity and standard Gnome classic use Compiz as a WM, whereas Unity-2D and Gnome classic (no effects) use Metacity. Gnome shell and Cinnamon (which is a gnome-shell extension) use Mutter as a WM.

I have no idea for sure what Mate uses because it's about as interesting to me as Windows ME :)

But all knowledge aside it's still a matter of choice. Just use what suits you best :)

[samwillc]

Thanks a lot! The best description yet of the differences.

Tried xubuntu, didn't like it, too rough around the graphic edges.

Linux mint cinnamon with menu bar at top. Now this is smart! Now I can start enjoying my desktop all over again, that's what I've found most enjoyable about trying these different distros over the last week or so. No doubt I'll switch again but I guess that's the beauty of it.

One thing's for sure though, past the point of no return for going back to windows. Nothing against microsoft, I can hardly slag off a company that has done that well in the IT field but get fed up with the lack of customization.

Thanks everyone for the help so far!

Sam.

[DMGrier]

I have always wondered the same thing but this is true in a lot of operating systems. I have seen people running Windows 7 with the old grey task bar.

Some people I guess are just a little old school, I prefer Unity now, I was running SolusOS for a while which is gnome 2.xx and I like it but I realized using it that I would end up using more work around my desktop which I do not mind but Unity just seems more efficient.

[samwillc]

I have gone back to ubuntu and unity after trying so many things. Linux mint seemed promising but when all's said and done, it's windows, but on linux. Start button bottom left, taskbar, a few different effects and a seriously nice theme (that grey and green is gorgeous! Almost the same colours as my personal website actually when I think about it so maybe I'm biased) but it's just a slightly snazzier looking win7.

It seems, a good theme, stability, global menu are the main things I'm after and ubuntu delivers on all fronts.

I'm not bothered that the launcher is on the left, my problem is more to do with how it looks. Otherwise, 12.04 runs fine, it's a great OS, very pleased so far.

Sam.

[daniel4m]

Hello people. Maybe you haven't heard, Ikey, SolusOS founder managed to recover almost all the functions that had Gnome 2, including panel right-click. More about this here. (http://forums.solusos.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=927)

http://ompldr.org/vZHkycQ

[MaxVK]

I just wanted to add my 2 pennies worth...

[Disclaimer - personal opinions below]

As already mentioned, a desktop environment is really a matter of personal taste for most people, and after a while you find what you are comfortable with. This is what I have done over the years, having started with Ubuntu at around v6.

Unfortunately my choice of desktop is not entirely a matter of personal taste - I suffer from very bad RSI when I use a mouse or trackball, which means my default pointing device has to be a Wacom tablet or I don't use the computer.

Alas but 12.04 has destroyed my Ubuntu use entirely.

The sidebar (or whatever it should be called) is fine, but a bit obtrusive stuck there on the side of the window, so I would like to auto hide it. I cant.

The sidebar pops back on the screen when the mouse is pushed further than the edge of the screen - that's not possible with a Wacom pen because the edge of the tablet is the edge and the cursor can be forced no further.

I struggled along with the sidebar sticking out onto the screen like a spare limb, but in the end, and in a fit of desperation I installed Gnome 3 which allows the sidebar to open simply by moving the mouse to the corner of the screen.

However, while I can use the new Gnome interface (and really quite like the look of it) I really cant get along with it at all when it comes to actually working with it, and I ended up with the Gnome fallback, which is as close to Gnome 2 as you can get apparently.

It. Is. Dire.

Convoluted key/mouse combinations to do things such as adding or editing the panels have simply broken the interface for me entirely.

Having been with Ubuntu since v6 I am rather gutted to say that I am now moving on to Linux Mint (Maya), where the MATE desktop environment is actually usable for me.

In my opinion Ubuntu has been utterly destroyed by the new style interface and judging by many of the comments Iv read around the internet that's an opinion shared by rather a lot of people. I have no issues with change and progression, but I think Unity, and indeed Gnome 3 are one step too far, too soon.

Ubuntu has always been the ideal distro for new users coming from a Windows background, because while it is very different, the overall principle of buttons and menus made it very easy for them to understand and deal with. Unity? Gnome 3? Its more like using a smart phone than a computer.

Searching for programs on the internet is fine, doing it on the desktop is pointless when its easier and ultimately quicker to open a menu and click on the item you want. I mean seriously, how many of us don't know where our programs are in the menu system?

For me at least Ubuntu is now a dead end unless they remove unity entirely and replace it with something else that is actually usable and looks good at the same time, and Iv a feeling that Ubuntu could be about to start haemorrhaging users for similar reasons.

Right now I am testing Mint on a Laptop and it appears to be everything that I require. In other words the desktop remains usable.

Sorry.... bit of a rant there, and I didn't start out with the intention of bashing Ubuntu - its been my favourite distro for some years - but the bottom line is that for me at least the Ubuntu era is over, and that makes me both sad and angry.

I think perhaps the ethos of "Linux for Human beings" should be changed to "Linux for Smart Phones".

[kansasnoob]

I plan on looking into this issue:


Convoluted key/mouse combinations to do things such as adding or editing the panels have simply broken the interface for me entirely.

I hadn't really thought about it because I do have use of both hands, although I have tremors that result in many improper keystrokes, but one of the people who I converted to Ubuntu around Gutsy or Hardy has only one arm :(

How can he now easily edit the new gnome-panel with only one hand :confused:

I think many accessibility issues are unresolved regarding both Gnome Shell and Unity. I'm just not smart enough to know all the answers.

But it seems accessibility has somewhat taken a backseat with a lot of the community ATM :cry:

[samwillc]

The sidebar (or whatever it should be called) is fine, but a bit obtrusive stuck there on the side of the window, so I would like to auto hide it. I cant.

The sidebar pops back on the screen when the mouse is pushed further than the edge of the screen - that's not possible with a Wacom pen because the edge of the tablet is the edge and the cursor can be forced no further.

Hi,

Have you tried compiz settings and make the launcher dodge windows? I find this really useful and you wouldn't need to move the mouse past the LHS of the screen.

http://www.webupd8.org/2012/05/how-to-get-dodge-windows-and-minimize.html

I totally agree that a user need not 'search' for the programs that they installed themselves! I mean how many programs does one person use.

Sam.

[satish_j]

I totally agree that a user need not 'search' for the programs that they installed themselves! I mean how many programs does one person use.

Totally agree with you.Unity expect ubuntu users to install programs in 3 digit number.:lolflag:

[chocklet]

Max, what a lame rant! No profanity. No personal attacks. NO CAPITAL LETTERS! I can barely work up the juice to respond.

"judging by many of the comments Iv read around the internet that's an opinion shared by rather a lot of people."

Let's not get carried away. The buzz about 12.04 Unity is pretty darn good, as a whole. Mate fares no better. It's likely that your "read" is based upon reviews of older Unity. Shall we spam each other with cherry-picked quotes? Nah, we're not going to change anybody's mind.

Loss of functionality in the name of progress has become the norm. If you're a FOSS fan, you should be getting used to it. My personal choice of Public Enemy Number One is KDE. #2 is Gnome. Ubuntu is somewhere in the middle of a long list of guilty parties.

A clear example is the grub2 boot loader. Grub2 renders some popular previously-installed distros unbootable (without learning how to manually edit configuration files). It has a Gatesian aroma to it, doesn't it?

Loss of functionality with no apology.

That's the way things are.

<>

If you have an impairment then your objective feedback is extra important. I hope that you have carefully described your issues and solutions needed in the proper forum. Good luck in your quest to find an interface that works for you.

[MaxVK]

Max, what a lame rant! No profanity. No personal attacks. NO CAPITAL LETTERS! I can barely work up the juice to respond.


Heh, sorry about that, but it wasn't actually intended to be a rant, but once I got going...

I don't want to change anyone's mind really, hence my disclaimer, but I think that people should realise that sometimes great leaps in forward progression actually make users take two steps back.


Loss of functionality with no apology.
yes, you see this is probably what rankles the most - There has been no consideration for people who might rely on certain functionality.

As samwillc pointed out (Thanks, Ill look into it) there are ways around things, but the point is that there should be no need to find a way around what is basic functionality in the first place.


If you have an impairment then your objective feedback is extra important. I hope that you have carefully described your issues and solutions needed in the proper forum. Good luck in your quest to find an interface that works for you.

Thanks, I'm hoping that Mint will do the trick - it looks very good so far. As for reporting it - No, Iv not done so, and I don't intend to do so either. If the Ubuntu developers decided not to remember people who may require certain functionality, then there is little point in complaining to them, since they have clearly been overtaken by the Redmond mentality, and I want nothing to do with such people.

Anyway, onward and upward - Ill carry on with 10.04 for a time while I properly put Mint through its paces and then Ill jump ship. It just saddens me that such (in my opinion) foolish changes were made without any kind of in depth consideration.

[oldrocker99]

I'm running Kubuntu 12.04, and installed several other desktops, including GNOME 3, XFCE, LXDE, Openbox and my current favorite, MATE 1.2. I like having the software packages from each desktop, and MATE is what GNOME 2.x users have been missing.

[S2UIRR3L]

DISCLAIMER HERE TOO: (MY PERSONAL OPINIONS)

It took so much to move me away from Jaunty Jackalope, but I did it, because I had to. Tried Maverick Meerkat and it was okay. These days, I'm using Lucid Lynx and I'm happier than a pig in the mud... I LOVE IT!!! It grieves me to think that one day, I'll have to leave Lucid in the past for something like Precise Pangolin... I may have to find something other than Ubuntu. I've tried it live and installed... I HATE IT WITH A PASSION!!!

My way of thinking is: If something works, it shouldn't be fixed. I'm a stubborn jerk and don't want to move from my Lucid Lynx. It's seriously, the most stable os that I've ever tried. Seems to me, that just when Ubuntu got everything right, someone decided to screw with it because THEY weren't happy and convinced everyone else that THEY weren't happy either.

I, too am past the point of no return. I will not touch another microsoft os as long as I can help it. When my Windows-7 Ultimate crashed and they said that I'd have to buy another copy... That was the last nail in their coffin as far as I'm concerned. Even my old xbox gaming system has been modded with the Phoenix OS (and I love it more than ever).

I just hope that I'm not forced to repeat history, and go searching / experimenting with a thousand different distros, like I did before I found Ubuntu. I've tried PCLOS, PUPPY, SUSE, you name it... Ubuntu was the one that worked the best for me... And now, I'm not too fond of it. Precise Pangolin just doesn't leave a good taste in my mouth :(

-Leo

[MaxVK]

...someone decided to screw with it because THEY weren't happy and convinced everyone else that THEY weren't happy either.
Yes, this! I think I was wrong before, its not a Redmond attitude they seem to have taken, its an Apple attitude: "This is the way we are doing it and if you don't like it you are wrong."

Unfortunately Ill be leaving on the next train.


I'm running Kubuntu 12.04, and installed several other desktops, including GNOME 3, XFCE, LXDE, Openbox and my current favorite, MATE 1.2. I like having the software packages from each desktop, and MATE is what GNOME 2.x users have been missing.
This interests me, since I had no idea that I could install MATE as a desktop on 12.04. How does it run? As good as it does in Mint?

If so then I might not be on the next train out since it would seem worthwhile giving MATE a chance on 12.04 since I have the disks and all!

[pete04]

I actually have no real beef with unity or Gnome 3, but I tried Cinnamon last week, and I'm loving it.

Unity is fine and has very cool features, but I really don't need lenses and I don't need HUD. I like the way it maximizes vertical pixel space but I've found the launcher auto hide thing to be really goofy. Why they ditched dodge windows, I have no idea.

Gnome 3 with extensions -- especially the panel applet -- was better for me. Liked the extensions and the easy installation of extensions and themes. However, I wasn't thrilled with how much vertical pixel space was taken up with top and bottom panels plus window titles, toolbars, etc.

Cinnamon is a lot like Gnome 3 but with added advantages: simple and configurable panel. Easy drag and drop app launcher and menu, really nice windows ui effects and a really nice desktop expo activated by a the top left hot corner (just like gnome 3). I think anybody who likes the classic desktop but would like something new should try Cinnamon. It's easy enough to add to Ubuntu 12.04 via ppa:
http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/?page_id=61

I continue to be amazed by the number of bitter complaints about DEs. We're really lucky to have all these options.

[S2UIRR3L]

I'm just a little bitter for a few reasons... I've lost the ability to right click on something to tweak it. I might as well move on to the K desktop for that.

I've lost control, which is what Ubuntu (and everything to do with Linux) was all about. We wanted control, so we left the other operating systems behind.

I've lost the ease of use. It got to the point (for me) that Ubuntu was easier to use and tweak than any distribution that microsoft can put out.

After 10-years of XP, I pretty much knew it all, then they changed to Vista to try and keep up with how awesome Ubuntu was. But it was released too soon and people didn't like it. So they released 7 in a way, to say "We're sorry for Vista, so here's 7" and 7 is not too horrible. I've tried both Vista and 7 and guess what... THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE!!!

But people were made to believe that they were happy by being forced to buy the apologies that microsoft came out with when everyone complained about Vista.

The way I see it (I hope) is that Ubuntu is trying to keep up, this time, with the whole tablet fad. Pangolin looks like it would work best on a tablet. Problem is, not too many people will mess with their tablet in fear of voiding their warrantee and much less people will mess with their smart phones. They're trying to keep up with the future Windows 8.

I just hope that this is indeed, just a fad. Like pete04 said: "We're really lucky to have all these options." Only beef I have is this... Gnome was finally perfected to work fantastic on both desktops and laptops, old or new. If people wanted something for their tablet, it should have been released as a separate thing (anyone remember notebook remix). Why fix the one that already works?

-Leo

[MaxVK]

We're really lucky to have all these options.
Yes, yes we are. But....

I thought that the time had come where Ubuntu had matured enough to be considered an all round contender for desktop machines, and I don't just mean for the geeks among us who want to tinker all day, but also for the average user who wants to browser the internet, answer a few emails, watch some videos etc, etc.

However, when such a major and drastic change is made in the main desktop environment I would have expected just such a mature OS to at least have the option of returning to the original style and function, or better still, to make the original functionality default and allow anyone to turn on the new features if they want to.

This would have been the mature way to deal with the change to Unity - giving the user the option to turn it on or off.

It can of course be argued that other DE's can be installed, but really that's the point here - why should any user have to jump through hoops to have a fully functional DE? Why could that not have been installed by default with Unity just 'Switched off', ready to be switched on if you want to use it?

I know its picky, and it even sounds picky while I type it, but right about now, for me personally, Ubuntu just took two massive steps backward, away from commonplace desktop acceptance and back to the days when the only people who used linux were those who were prepared to spend the time to set it up so that it could be used.

Just recently I have turned two people on to using Ubuntu (back with Jaunty and then Lucid). Both are simple users who check email, TV listings and watch movies etc, etc, and both were impressed that it was such a familiar environment. I dread the phone calls when they want to upgrade to 12.04, because I know that both will go straight back to Windows the moment they try to use it.


Gnome was finally perfected to work fantastic on both desktops and laptops, old or new. If people wanted something for their tablet, it should have been released as a separate thing (anyone remember notebook remix). Why fix the one that already works?

Absolutely!

I have no problem with new interfaces, no doubt one will come along that will be perfect for me to use.... oh wait, that was Gnome.

[VanillaMozilla]

I continue to be amazed by the number of bitter complaints about DEs. We're really lucky to have all these options.
But we don't have all these options. No one is complaining about what they added. The problem is what they threw away. Everything was just beginning to work very nicely, and they threw it all away and started over.

[VanillaMozilla]

Anyway, samwillc, you seem bent on trying Mint, so you probably ought to just do it.

However, there's Mint and there's Mint. Be aware that what you see may not be what you get. There's Mint based on Ubuntu and there's Mint based on Debian. There's Mint based on Gnome 2 and there's Mint based on Gnome 3. (I don't recall which the current version is based on.)

Some people escaped to Mint or Debian because they were still using Gnome 2 -- so they got to keep the Gnome 2 that they liked. Unfortunately, that's just a delaying action. Mint and Debian will not keep Gnome 2 for long. Mint, however, gives you an easy way to try Mate, which is a fork of Gnome 2. Ubuntu give you an easy way to try Gnome Classic (with or without effects), and you don't need to keep Unity installed. I sure wouldn't change distros just to get rid of Unity.

[pete04]

But we don't have all these options. No one is complaining about what they added. The problem is what they threw away. Everything was just beginning to work very nicely, and they threw it all away and started over.


Not asking to be confrontational, but I'm really curious: What is the thing you need to do with your DE that you can no longer do. I've tried nearly everything out there -- KDE, LXDE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Unity, Gnome 3 and 2 and E17... I once had XFCE set up with compiz and AWN dock. These are all available to Ubuntu users, many in their own respin.

I'm settling into Cinnamon and it's definitely not perfect, but I like a DE that has just enough options and stays out of the way. But the options seem practically infinite. And you don't have to be all that sophisticated to get any of them up and running.

EDIT: To add, I think it's pretty clear that a computing of any kind is going more mobile. Whether it's notebooks or tablets, touch or not. I think it would have been silly for Gnome, KDE or Ubuntu people to rest on their laurels. In some ways, maybe they went too far. But they're also not developed by super-rich corporations like Microsoft or Apple.... And if you think Gnome 3 is crazy, go check out Windows 8.

[VanillaMozilla]

Not asking to be confrontational, but I'm really curious: What is the thing you need to do with your DE that you can no longer do.
Well, nothing, with enough work. Classic is a step down but acceptable. But two of my computers probably won't even run that properly, and not at all with the next version. A test computer has an undefined system error, and some broken programs.


I've tried nearly everything out there -- KDE, LXDE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Unity, Gnome 3 and 2 and E17... I'm settling into Cinnamon and it's definitely not perfect....
You've tried everything. My point exactly.


And if you think Gnome 3 is crazy, go check out Windows 8.
Yes, I seriously thought of leaving until I saw that.

[VanillaMozilla]

accidental double post

[TorakTu]

Coming from M$ windows over to Ubuntu I am in heaven AND hell. I finally decided to stick with one Flavor of Linux and that was vanilla Ubuntu until I am more proficient. I have tried MINT and DreamStudio as well as Kubuntu. ( Zorg wouldn't even boot ) But I ended up back at the original Ubuntu because I needed something raw to setup the way I like. Or so I thought. Cinnamon MINT 13 is the most stable out of the box of all of them so far for my computers. No lock ups or anything. However, once I started to install the video drivers, I found out differently. All other versions of Linux locks up on my machine EXCEPT Cinnamon out of the box. Why ? I don't have a clue. And I have tried both 32 and 64 Bit versions of them all. I wish I knew. If I update the kernels to any of the buggy versions it fixes my lock up problems. But the graphics card is still an issue no matter what I do.

As for why I went back to regular Ubuntu is because some of the support forums do not have enough answers to help various FLAVOR linux versions. There is more support that I have seen for the Vanilla version of Ubuntu then in any other. Not saying its not out there, just saying I couldn't find as much help as I do regular Ubuntu. So I am sticking with it until I solve my graphics card issue. Then once I get it sorted out, then maybe I'll go back to DreamStudio. So far its one of my faves. Mint is good, but there is something about it ( other then its stable out of the box minus the graphics drivers ) that I just can't wrap my finger around and it gives me the heebee jeebees.. hahaha

Kidding.. of course.. :)

[ashwinrao]

Yes, I'm using gnome classic on ubuntu 12.04 on my work PC since it has only 1GB RAM. 10.04 worked in it great but it seems 12.04 needs much RAM usage for Unity and gets slow. So, I switched to gnome classic.

[S2UIRR3L]

I think it's pretty clear that a computing of any kind is going more mobile. Whether it's notebooks or tablets, touch or not. I think it would have been silly for Gnome, KDE or Ubuntu people to rest on their laurels. In some ways, maybe they went too far. But they're also not developed by super-rich corporations like Microsoft or Apple.... And if you think Gnome 3 is crazy, go check out Windows 8.

I moved on to Ubuntu to get away from microsoft. After the last crash of 7-ultimate rendered my computer useless, and microsoft pretty much told me "too bad, buy another copy that won't be replaced if IT also crashes, in which case, you'll have to buy it again, and THAT won't be replaced if it crashes... etc.) I have no intentions on buying a copy of 8. Pardon my rudeness, but Gates can join Jobs for all I care... I tend to stay away from anything microsoft as much as I can. Ubuntu was just something I tried because I was bored, and the more I screwed around with it, the more I loved it. I'm so not going back to ms.

As far as mobile computing goes... I'm not a doctor or a lawyer. I'm not a high profile celebrity and I'm not an emergency rescue guy who needs to be mobile all the time. I'm a human and I believe that phones should be used for what they were designed for... TALKING WITH OTHER HUMANS... As far as tablets go, I hate the virtual keyboards. I don't care much for the "chicklette" style keys on new laptops or desktop computers, but at least I don't have to look at the keyboard to see what I'm typing. And that's just besides the point. I'm very clumsy and it wouldn't take long for me to break something the thickness of 3 business cards... I'm a dude, not a girl, I'm not going to carry around a special purse for my delicates... Man-bag... I DON'T THINK SO!!!

By the way... iPhone-4S... the commercials make them look like people can not survive with out them... What happens when the battery dies because you've been chatting it up with Seri (or what ever her name is) and you're lost like I am (i do a lot of traveling)? When it comes down to it, a graphite #2 and recycled paper have never failed me. I'll unfold my great grandfather's map and use my pencil and paper to copy directions and step on the gas... It's a lot less dangerous than texting, talking, trying to get "SERI" to recognize that you're trying to say "GET ME HOME" and not "DINOSAUR BONE" lol.

Sorry for that iPhone rant...

My point is... I couldn't care less about who follows fads and has the newest iPad, iPhone, and what OS is loaded on them... What I care about is ME... My Ubuntu was built for what I needed it to be built for... MY desktop and MY laptop... Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I feel like I'm being forced to go smart phone, tablet, mobile everything. I don't want to try the newest fad. At the same time, I don't want to pretend that my desktop or laptop is a touch screen. In my opinion, that's what I feel Pangolin, and definitely windows 8, was built for. Jobs has been dead for some time now, Gates is dying because Apple is STILL better than anything Microsoft can do lmao!

-Leo

[VanillaMozilla]

However, once I started to install the video drivers, I found out differently.
Why not just go back to the built-in drivers, then? And things might tend to be a whole lot simpler and more reliable if you don't require three-dimensional spinning cubes and other UI whiz-bangs.

[VanillaMozilla]

My point is... I couldn't care less about who follows fads and has the newest iPad, iPhone, and what OS is loaded on them...
I'm with you all the way, Leo. There's something very wrong with requiring an ever-fancier computer just to manage the same files and run the same programs.

And if you haven't figured it out, Gnome Classic (no effects) is probably the simplest way to go. It's almost as good as the old Ubuntu, and almost the same, except that your screensaver just evaporated. ;)

[S2UIRR3L]

That's one thing that I wish I could keep... The simplicity of it all, without having to search and install and learn HOW to install all over again... Call me crazy, but I like my compiz and wobbly windows and everything else that I can do right now... Not to mention, I love showing off to all my Microsoft and Apple friends :P

[pete04]

I hear you on resources. Ubuntu supposedly only needs a gig of RAM, but Unity hits swap on my 2gb RAM laptop all the time. I think it really needs 3 to 4 gigs to be comfortable and run even a couple applications simultaneously.

Just because you develop to anticipate mobile doesn't mean you're slavishly following the iPhone. I, too. like an OS to be functional on the desktop, and that's my point. If you don't like Unity or Gnome 3, you've got lots of good options. XFCE seems like a pretty good one. Cinnamon is great. And 10.04 is supported for another year. No one's being forced to use anything they don't want to.

We can all rage on about progress, but it's gonna happen anyway. People will expect (very soon) to be able to use applications on touch screens. Think about it. Three years ago no one cared. Two years ago we got the iPad and people are talking like it's the end of the PC. WE're not there yet, obviously, but you have to work on anticipating it.

I think Unity is a pretty good attempt at bridging that divide. I think it's biggest failing, inexplicably, really is that it didn't allow for more extensive customization. I think half the people who howled about Unity would have been satisfied if they could just move the launcher to the bottom of the screen. Why not let them do it?

[Ralph L]

I am one of the people who find unity and gnome 3 unusable. I tried several other OSs--Mint, Zorin, Xfce, lxde, kde, etc. None of them did what I wanted so I am back on Precise Pangolin 12.04 to trying to make gnome classic (no effects) and gnome classic work. The reasons I ended up on gnome classic (no effects) are:
1. Nautilus is the default file browser. I use Access Control Lists (ACL) and Extended Attributes (EA) with Eiciel. To my knowledge only Nautilus supports them (and it doesn't do it very well--the drag and drop copy does not copy the ACLs/EA so I had to write a Nautilus script to do this). I tried installing Nautilus in other OSs, and it didn't work right. I also like other Nautilus addons.

2. I found the Clearwaita theme for gnome classic that was very readable and solved my eye strain problems with the very dark default 12.04 release themes. Ubuntu-mono-light icons gave good contrast and are easy reading on the Clearwaita panel. Clearwaita had wide enough borders that I was able to easily "grab" the borders and resize windows.

3. I found a way to restore the single line stepper arrows that were taken away in 12.04. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1965929

4. I was able to install "system-config-printer" (Printing) "user-admin" (Users and Groups), Synaptic, and Configuration Editor, back into 12.04.

5. I was able to reinstall hibernation into 12.04. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=12021956#post12021956

6. I was able to move the Close/Maximize/Minimize back to the right side.

7. I was able to convert to a single panel at the bottom of the screen, similar to Window XP, which I still use, providing a consistent user interface between the two OSs.

8. Using Configuration Editor I was able to unset the "Maximize window when moved to top of screen" feature. This drove me nuts.

9. I was familiar with Ubuntu.

10 I wanted up to date support tools and libraries so I can install various applications. For example, applications such as Fcron/FcronQ that use QT4 need an up to date version of that.

11. Bottom line: I was able to get 12.04 gnome classic (no effects) to be enough like Lucid that I am converting to it, rather than going off in a completely new direction.

Ralph

[S2UIRR3L]

Guys... I'm not complaining on the evolution of modern technology. What would only use one gig on a USB key chain would take up a 10-thousand square foot warehouse if it was created with pencil and paper. I'm not complaining one bit.

What I'm complaining about is this; I want to keep upgrading to a newer OS that works out of the box with my computer, not have to tweak this and that, and opt out of tablet mode because that's the default install of the newer versions.

Sure, I have another year or so to learn how to tweak everything and make it function like what I'm used to... I'm just a little upset because every upgrade that I've installed, I didn't "need" to do all this to make it what I want it to be.

And please don't take anything I say "too" literal. There are exceptions and I'm just speaking in general. Not EVERY default install is in tablet mode... Heck, it's not tablet mode at all... I'm only speaking in general because that's what it resembles to me, in my personal opinion. That's the most comfortable way for me to describe it in my own words... I'm some what of a newbie lol.

-Leo

[S2UIRR3L]

Worst case... I'll just stay with an out dated Lucid the same way I stuck with Jaunty up until around 6 months ago... that's right, up until around 6 months ago, I was still on Jaunty Jackalope lol.

-Leo

[S2UIRR3L]

It's been a few days since my last post on "this" thread... And I've decided to give Pangolin one more try because I hooked up my mom with her own computer. I'm actually using her a guinea pig because she's never used a computer after DOS lol.

Couldn't get it to run live, never mind install. Thought my dvd was scratched or corrupted, so I downloaded a fresh ISO and burned it to a new DVD... Same story. It will run in my gaming computer, but the other. Lucid Lynx installed flawlessly...

Could the computer be too old or could something be missing from it that Pangolin requires? It's a Dell Dimension 4600, Pentium 4 (hyper threading), 32-bit with an 80-Gig IDE hard disk drive and 4-Gigs of RAM (2-sticks @ 2-Gigs each) and nothing.

Jeez... I hate Pangolin :(

[Ralph L]

I have Pangolin working on Dell Latitude D610 laptop with 1 G of memory. Processor is Pentium 1.73 GHz. It is 5 years or so old. Runs fine,

[S2UIRR3L]

I've used Pangolin (live disc) and I'll admit, it's not completely horrible. It took me a LOT of time to find everything and learn how everything minimizes to that thing on the left... I still have tons to learn. But it looks like something that belongs on a touch pad tablet thing... And it just dawned on me that it kinda looks like something between Windows 7 and Windows 8 of which I hate both.

I hope that I haven't been looking at Pangolin with a bias mind set this whole time... I might have to clear my mind of everything that I hate about Windows and try it again. It just irritating that I wasn't able to install it this time on my mom's computer. It makes no sense... Why would Lucid be accepted and Pangolin get rejected? Just thought of it, Should I have checked the BIOS settings?

-Leo

[MaxVK]

..Why would Lucid be accepted and Pangolin get rejected?
I have an HP ProLiant ML350, 4x Quad Core Xeon, 16G 7200 RAM etc, etc. Iv been running it as a simple file server with Lucid for ages, but the moment I installed 12.04 I had to remove it and re-install Lucid because the poor on-board graphics that most servers have would not run Unity or even Gnome3.

Now I know that the ML350 is not exactly a cutting edge server and it was my own fault for installing Unity in the first place - no doubt the server would be chugging away at files under 12.04 even now had I left it without a DE, but my point here is that 12.04 takes up way more resources than previous versions, and while that is an inevitable part of DE development, Id say that the step from Lucid to Pangolin was a step too far.

Sure I'm moaning about it, and I accept that there must be progression, but the old adage "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind, and my personal opinion is that any progression that involves changing the entire DE, while at the same time dramatically increasing the requirements to run it, should be done far more slowly, and optionally, allowing an opt in or out for the newer components.

At least that way developers can get feedback in each part of their new grand design, bit by bit, telling them which direction they need to be thinking in to make things right.

[kansasnoob]

I've used Pangolin (live disc) and I'll admit, it's not completely horrible. It took me a LOT of time to find everything and learn how everything minimizes to that thing on the left... I still have tons to learn. But it looks like something that belongs on a touch pad tablet thing... And it just dawned on me that it kinda looks like something between Windows 7 and Windows 8 of which I hate both.

I hope that I haven't been looking at Pangolin with a bias mind set this whole time... I might have to clear my mind of everything that I hate about Windows and try it again. It just irritating that I wasn't able to install it this time on my mom's computer. It makes no sense... Why would Lucid be accepted and Pangolin get rejected? Just thought of it, Should I have checked the BIOS settings?

-Leo

Lets break this up in two pieces:

#1: You dislike Unity, is that correct?

If so, and if you want to stay in the Ubuntu family there are other options. I maintain a few dozen PC's for elderly friends and about 2/3 of them simply have no interest in learning Unity so I'm working on this:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1966370

There are also Lubuntu, Xubuntu, and Kubuntu. I happen to really like Lubuntu but it's NOT LTS and I love the idea of Ubuntu Precise being supported until April 2017 ;)

#2: Can't boot Ubuntu live in mom's puter.

Have you tried a 10.04 disc in that puter?

If so does it boot?

If 10.04 live boots but 12.04 does not that rules out a BIOS problem.

If no Ubuntu/Linux live disc/USB boots then it likely is a BIOS settings problem.

Regardless you'd be much more likely to get help with that issue if you started your own thread either here (http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=331) or here (http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=333) ;)

[S2UIRR3L]

#1: Correct, I don't fancy Unity very much. But I'm going to try it again because I feel I've been going at this with a bias that Gnome is better because that's all I know and never want to move on... but forced to move on to Unity when Lucid LTS is done.

#2: This computer did not want Precise. I tried Lucid and in under 20-min, it was DONE and I was downloading all the themes that make it look nice (I really like SlicknesS Black). I was downloading lib dvd things to watch movies and listen to mp3s.

I'll try Precise as soon as I get another chance. If I still don't like it, I'll try the distros you mentioned... And if I don't like those, I'll stay with Lucid even past it's expiration date. Heck, I was still using (and happy with) Jaunty up until xmas a few months ago!!!

-Leo

[Ralph L]

I haven't been on this thread for a month, and I suppose by now you have solved your problems. However, I just wanted to mention that on my Dell Latitude D610 laptop, when I boot the Pangolin Live CD just after I have selected CD as the load device, I have a little man symbol come up. I have to hit the "Esc" key within about 5 seconds or the thing runs off in left field doing I don't know what. If I hit the Esc key in time I get the language selection and everything works fine after that.

Don't know if this is off any help, but I thought I'd mention it.

[robertmf]

I am one of the people who find unity and gnome 3 unusable ...

Ralph

:guitar: totally ditto :P

Ubuntu 12.04/Precise Gnome Classic (no effects) Metacity window manager. Kudoes to the efforts of noobslab, webupd8, and GnomishDark theme author.

The only thing left not to my liking is the synaptic white on yellow tooltip; btw which (minor issue) solution I'm looking for since I haven't been able to find any synaptic.css

[Buntu Bunny]

11. Bottom line: I was able to get 12.04 gnome classic (no effects) to be enough like Lucid that I am converting to it, rather than going off in a completely new direction.

That's it exactly!!!