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View Full Version : Legality of ripping dvds



oscar
June 15th, 2006, 08:23 PM
I was recently wondering wether I would make backups of some of my dvds using:

dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso
and store them all on a large external hard drive. This way I could more easily transport and access them. Since gxine (and others I'm sure) can play an iso directly I wouldn't loose anything. I would still keep the dvds but use the hard drive mostly to play them. My question is, would this be legal? I do own all of the dvds that I would do this to and it would only be for personal use, no one else would use the dvds, they would be like backup copies. I am particularly interested in the situation in the UK but also interested in what the laws are in other countries. I guess in doing this I would be on the same/similar legal footing as I would be ripping cds to my hard disk and (perhaps) copying them to a music player.

Kernel Sanders
June 15th, 2006, 09:00 PM
I was recently wondering wether I would make backups of some of my dvds using:

dd if=/dev/dvd of=dvd.iso
and store them all on a large external hard drive. This way I could more easily transport and access them. Since gxine (and others I'm sure) can play an iso directly I wouldn't loose anything. I would still keep the dvds but use the hard drive mostly to play them. My question is, would this be legal? I do own all of the dvds that I would do this to and it would only be for personal use, no one else would use the dvds, they would be like backup copies. I am particularly interested in the situation in the UK but also interested in what the laws are in other countries. I guess in doing this I would be on the same/similar legal footing as I would be ripping cds to my hard disk and (perhaps) copying them to a music player.

Each country has its own laws, but generally speaking, you are allowed to make a backup copy of software/films etc.. that you aquired legally.

Biltong (Dee)
June 15th, 2006, 09:36 PM
This is such a grey area.
If you were going to start a commercial venture or rip your DVD's for your friends, then yes it is illegal.
But making personal back-ups? Not illegal.

nalmeth
June 15th, 2006, 09:50 PM
If you want to save some space, use something like k9copy to shrink them to about 4.3 gigs.

I know that the law varies in a lot of countries, but I think for the most part you are legally entitled to make backup copies of the media you own.

KiwiNZ
June 15th, 2006, 09:54 PM
I strongly urge you to check the Laws of the Country in which you live. In many it is illegal to do what you are suggesting

Also Do not promote activity or provide links etc for activity that would illegal in th USA where these forums are based.Thankyou

OrganicPanda
June 15th, 2006, 10:22 PM
wouldent it depend entirely on the copyright restrictions applied to each dvd ... par example: if i were to author a movie i made with my friends and send it to him/her without applying any restrictions on it im sure it would be completely legal for him/her to do whatever he/she wants with it... most likely just laugh and bin it, but thats besides the point.

just something to think about

Kvark
June 15th, 2006, 10:50 PM
To make a general assumption. A law that clearly forbids you to use stuff you have bought (er, I mean bought licences giving you limited access to it) by ripping music to mp3 players and movies to laptop hdds or in whatever way you want would be ridiculous, I doubt many countries would be that stupid. But even though I doubt there are any laws that clearly bans fair use I guess it could still be a low risk grey zone in some places, specially if you use "hacker tools" to crack encryption and DRM protection.


The legal situation in Sweden is that any reasonable private use is ok. It is also legal to borrow movies from friends to copy them and to give copies to friends. There is a special tax on recordable disks to compensate for this legal physical disk piracy. A year ago they made it illegal to download pirate copies from the internet.

In Sweden it is actually more of a political issue then a legal one. There have been pro piracy demonstrations (http://www.eurotrib.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2006/6/3/192328/9316) and there is a small but fast growing Pirate Party (http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,20411-2216493,00.html). Even some of the established parties have said they are willing to discuss a bandwidth tax like the one on recordable disks or other alternatives to make internet piracy legal again but still ensure that the artists get paid.

OrganicPanda
June 15th, 2006, 11:12 PM
wow what are flat rent prices like in sweeden, i may need to relocate myself

bigken
June 15th, 2006, 11:15 PM
I find this subject quite sad you pay for the DVD so no mater where you live you should be alowed to make a backup of your puchase for your own personal use:sad:

poofyhairguy
June 15th, 2006, 11:51 PM
But making personal back-ups? Not illegal.

In many cases it WOULD be illegal for me to do here in America what the parent poster wants.

MANY DVDs are "protected" by (pretty simple) DRM. But the DMCA makes it so that breaking almost ANY DRM is against the law. Therefore backing up copy protected DVDs (or CDs) in any form is illegal. Thats why Ubuntu can't play some DVDs out of the box also (as such would break the copy protection).

I must mention though that this is a strict legal interpretation and I am not a lawyer. As far as I know no body in the USA has been prosecuted for making backups of their own DVDs for non commercial use.

Personally I do both (make backups of my "copy protected" DVDs and CDs) here in the States without fear. That is due to an unwritten law in America- you can (almost) break all the minor laws you want as long as you are willing to pay the lawyer fees.....

KiwiNZ
June 15th, 2006, 11:52 PM
In New Zealand copying is illegal. There is some allowed activities prescribed in the legislation...

Permitted acts include: "fair dealing" - for the purposes of criticism, review, news reporting, research or private study;
limited copying or dealing in the work for particular educational purposes;
limited copying or dealing in the work by librarians or archivists in specific circumstances;
exceptions in respect of certain activities by the Crown;
copying for the purposes of making copies that are in Braille;
subject to certain conditions, the making of a back-up copy of a computer program; and
recording a television programme for the purpose of making a complaint or for "time shifting" purposes so that a programme can be watched at a more convenient time.
There is no general exception to copyright infringement for private of domestic copying, including "format shifting", of legitimately purchased recordings from one medium to another to allow playing or viewing via other devices."

Our statutes governing this is currently under Parliamentary review but I do not anticipate any major changes.

Kvark
June 16th, 2006, 12:19 AM
How can Mepis that is located in the US offer support for restricted formats if it is clearly fobidden to crack DRM in the US instead of just a gray zone?

Has anyone actually been convicted for playing non-itunes music on an mp3 player in New Zeeland?

KiwiNZ
June 16th, 2006, 12:29 AM
We do have an interesting situation here in New Zealand. Apple sell Ipods here by the thousands. However iTunes is not available :-$ . So the folks that have them must be doing Format shifting:-$

As for prosecutions I will have to check the registry ,but I believe no individual has been. The target for investigation are those who are doing it for gain.

poofyhairguy
June 16th, 2006, 12:36 AM
How can Mepis that is located in the US offer support for restricted formats if it is clearly fobidden to crack DRM in the US instead of just a gray zone?


Remember how I said that no one that I have heard of has gotten in trouble for this stuff?

Part of me believes if people start getting in trouble, Warren of Mepis fame would be the first one on the list. Seeing how he is an American, I don't know how he sleeps at night.

Forever I have wanted to email him and ask if he is trying to be a martyr, but those within Mepis tells me that his sense of humor would not find that funny.....

AndyCooll
June 16th, 2006, 01:24 AM
Surprising as it may seem, in the UK copying music/dvd's etc for "backup" purposes is illegal too.

However, the BPI (and I believe) others have officially stated this week that they will not be going after anyone who makes such copies for personal use only: UK music fans can copy own tracks (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5053658.stm)

:cool:

graigsmith
June 16th, 2006, 01:36 AM
wow, you can make an iso so easily? how fun :)

wmcbrine
June 16th, 2006, 02:57 PM
wow, you can make an iso so easily? how fun :)Yeah, or even:

cp /dev/cdrom filename.iso

Then, after you've burned it, verify your copy:

cmp filename.iso /dev/cdrom

However, I don't think this works with encrypted video DVDs... it doesn't copy the keys, I think. That's why there are special programs just for DVD ripping. (That, and the need to get double-sided content to fit onto a single-sided disc.)

jdong
June 16th, 2006, 03:20 PM
As others have mentioned, this does not work as well as you'd want it to! Namely, DVD encryption keys are not copied, so the only way to play it back is to use libdvdcss's brute-force decryptor.

I don't know how to back up with keys, but K3b's DVD-to-ISO decrypts the DVD, so I'd recommend using that instead.

mandragor
June 23rd, 2006, 07:46 PM
If you pay to own something you should be allowed to do with it as you please,
if I buy a bottle of soda I shouldn't be forced to drink it just from the bottle - if I want
to I should be able to pour it into a glass and drink from that. Luckily, in Norway,
you are allowed to do just this - just like Sweden and any other sane country.

jason.b.c
June 23rd, 2006, 07:58 PM
Remember how I said that no one that I have heard of has gotten in trouble for this stuff?

Part of me believes if people start getting in trouble, Warren of Mepis fame would be the first one on the list. Seeing how he is an American, I don't know how he sleeps at night.

Forever I have wanted to email him and ask if he is trying to be a martyr, but those within Mepis tells me that his sense of humor would not find that funny.....

wow, you can make an iso so easily? how fun

Well talk about people being given the chance to dig themselves in..

Vongo.com (http://www.vongo.com/?cam=direct&tac=search&grp=GGL15)
:-k

forrestcupp
June 23rd, 2006, 08:58 PM
If they want to make laws making it illegal for me to make backup copies of DVD's that I paid for, then they should force anyone selling DVD's to offer a free trade-in program for every time I scratch up one of my DVD's beyond repair. I have a 2 year old boy who goes crazy with our DVD's when we're not looking.

OffHand
June 23rd, 2006, 09:08 PM
Personally I think it is bs if your law forbids you to make back ups of your legally purchased materials. Also I think most countries have other matters that are far more important. Actually, with these kind of things I will use my own standards.
Stupid laws do not deserve to be there. They are not made for the people.
Btw, I am not against the law, goverment, cops and all that... it's just stupid laws. Anyways that's my personal opinion.

mips
June 23rd, 2006, 09:31 PM
Depends from country to country. Lots of countries have fair use laws which allow you to backup stuff you legally obtained and payed for.

The weird thing is it gets contradicted sometimes by another law. Example, as far as i know the USA has fair use laws but with DRM they kinda don't matter as you are not allowed to circumvent copy protection. Weird eh ?

randell6564
June 26th, 2006, 09:01 PM
La,LA,LA,LA,LA...

Oooh...

Cool post! Brings up a question Ive been wanting to ask.

I TOO am interested in ripping DVD's. The thing is, I'm a Newb! I extract and backup music cd's all the time using 'Ripper x'. (from 'Ogg' to 'WAV')

I want to find an application that is easy to install on my box, (Ubuntu Dapper).

apt-get or Synaptic.

I installed 'Mencoder' but it doesnt show up anywhere in the menu! Isnt there an application for DVD ripping that is as easy to use as Ripper x?

gingermark
June 26th, 2006, 11:29 PM
La,LA,LA,LA,LA...

Oooh...

Cool post! Brings up a question Ive been wanting to ask.

I TOO am interested in ripping DVD's. The thing is, I'm a Newb! I extract and backup music cd's all the time using 'Ripper x'. (from 'Ogg' to 'WAV')

I want to find an application that is easy to install on my box, (Ubuntu Dapper).

apt-get or Synaptic.

I installed 'Mencoder' but it doesnt show up anywhere in the menu! Isnt there an application for DVD ripping that is as easy to use as Ripper x?
As you're in the States ripping a copyrighted / encrypted DVD would be illegal. Of course, if you wish to rip a DVD that isn't encrypted and that you have the legal right to copy, then dvdrip or acidrip are both reasonable tools for the job.

Menencoder is a command-line program, but acidrip and dvdrip both make use of it.

randell6564
June 27th, 2006, 12:06 AM
As you're in the States ripping a copyrighted / encrypted DVD would be illegal. Of course, if you wish to rip a DVD that isn't encrypted and that you have the legal right to copy, then dvdrip or acidrip are both reasonable tools for the job.

Menencoder is a command-line program, but acidrip and dvdrip both make use of it.

NICE AVATAR!

LOL! Well...

If its Illegal then I guess I cant do it right? :)

Really... I'm not trying to start a biusness. I'm just trying to get high on doing stuff that you cant do with Windoze!

How come I can rip a copyrighted music cd useing ripper x but I cant rip a DVD?

23meg
June 27th, 2006, 12:11 AM
BS (http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=151787&cid=12749236)

SeanTater
June 27th, 2006, 01:03 AM
NICE AVATAR!

LOL! Well...

If its Illegal then I guess I cant do it right? :)

Really... I'm not trying to start a biusness. I'm just trying to get high on doing stuff that you cant do with Windoze!

How come I can rip a copyrighted music cd useing ripper x but I cant rip a DVD?

read at http://www.riaa.com/
also read http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf

randell6564
June 27th, 2006, 02:04 AM
Thanks You Guys!

TrinitronX
June 27th, 2006, 02:33 AM
Hmm... I'm not a lawyer, but technically if there is any legality of making backups of DVDs, I would argue that the dd command only creates an exact DVD image of the DVD. As far as I know, there is no CSS decrypting going on... so you're technically not circumventing the DRM encryption.

Interesting thread this is :D

randell6564
June 27th, 2006, 05:51 AM
Hmm... I'm not a lawyer, but technically if there is any legality of making backups of DVDs, I would argue that the dd command only creates an exact DVD image of the DVD. As far as I know, there is no CSS decrypting going on... so you're technically not circumventing the DRM encryption.

Interesting thread this is :D

HUH? :P

prizrak
June 27th, 2006, 06:06 AM
It's not illegal unless you get caught.

hizaguchi
June 27th, 2006, 07:43 PM
It's been my understanding that (in the US), it is not only illegal to rip/copy your own DVDs, but it is also illegal to play them directly from the disk with most free software DVD players. Check this out: http://www.eff.org/IP/Video/MPAA_DVD_cases/?f=20020703_eff_2600_pr.html

Kilz
June 27th, 2006, 08:02 PM
If you want to save some space, use something like k9copy to shrink them to about 4.3 gigs.

I know that the law varies in a lot of countries, but I think for the most part you are legally entitled to make backup copies of the media you own.
:D :D :D :D One more piece of software to replace something running under wine. :D :D :D :D Awsome program! TYVM

ixus_123
October 10th, 2006, 09:41 PM
back up DVD's are indeed illegal in the UK as are backup music CDs et al.

However this needs to be put in context. There are many old stupid laws in teh UK that don't get re-written becuase they are not a pressing issue.

Any judge would excercise common sence in interpretting the law - for example - as far as teh backups thing goes, people have been making mix tapes & then CDs of their own music for years in teh UK - if you are not selling them no one is going to go after you although technically they could.

The same is true for recording TV broadcasts - mostly illegal yet the pirate hardware (VCRs) can be found in pretty much every home in the UK

It's alos illegal to dance round the May Pole in teh UK - are you going to be prosecuted for it - No

mushroom
October 10th, 2006, 10:48 PM
Basically, it goes like this: fair use allows you to create backups of whatever media you own, but the DMCA disallows you to circumvent copy protection. So if you're backing it up that way, then yes, it's completely legal, but if you're decrypting it, then it's not. If you plan to play the backed up image on a Linux machine, then that would be illegal (because there is no MPAA-sanctioned Linux DVD decrypter).

darkhatter
October 10th, 2006, 11:38 PM
rip you dvd's and do what you want with them, you paid for them.

KiwiNZ
October 11th, 2006, 01:17 AM
rip you dvd's and do what you want with them, you paid for them.

Bad advice and wrong.

When you purchase a DVD you purchase the right to view it personally. You do not purchase any other rights.

AndyCooll
October 11th, 2006, 03:05 AM
back up DVD's are indeed illegal in the UK as are backup music CDs et al.

However this needs to be put in context. There are many old stupid laws in teh UK that don't get re-written becuase they are not a pressing issue.

Any judge would excercise common sence in interpretting the law - for example - as far as teh backups thing goes, people have been making mix tapes & then CDs of their own music for years in teh UK - if you are not selling them no one is going to go after you although technically they could.

The same is true for recording TV broadcasts - mostly illegal yet the pirate hardware (VCRs) can be found in pretty much every home in the UK

It's alos illegal to dance round the May Pole in teh UK - are you going to be prosecuted for it - No

This is indeed the situation in the UK. Thankfully the BPI themselves have said they will not go after people who make backup copies of their music for personal use: BPI announced that it will not sue anyone for personal copying (http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/13522)

:cool:

ComplexNumber
October 11th, 2006, 04:21 AM
Originally Posted by ixus_123 http://ubuntuforums.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1602057#post1602057)
back up DVD's are indeed illegal in the UK as are backup music CDs et al.

However this needs to be put in context. There are many old stupid laws in teh UK that don't get re-written becuase they are not a pressing issue.

Any judge would excercise common sence in interpretting the law - for example - as far as teh backups thing goes, people have been making mix tapes & then CDs of their own music for years in teh UK - if you are not selling them no one is going to go after you although technically they could.

The same is true for recording TV broadcasts - mostly illegal yet the pirate hardware (VCRs) can be found in pretty much every home in the UK

It's alos illegal to dance round the May Pole in teh UK - are you going to be prosecuted for it - No
there's a few stupid laws here in the UK. up until a few years ago, it was perfectly legal for a man in chester to kill a welshman if he found him within the city walls after midnight....FACT.


still on the topic of stupid laws........as for the ripping of cd's to one's hard drive, i only just found out the other day that its illegal here :D. oops. its under the Copyright, Designs, & Patents Act 1988.

gnomeuser
October 11th, 2006, 12:45 PM
I've been thinking of ripping my extensive collection of DVDs into a free format like Ogg Theora or Ogg Schrodinger (soon to be released). My TV is dying and I don't intend to replace it as my TV watching has greatly decreased in recent times, instead having all my movies stored safely on my computer would be a nice solution. I worry a bit about the fact that DVDs scratch easily and I have a lot of collectable movies that are hard to get again so a nice library of compressed movies would be great and the investment in HD space would be quite bareable.

This should AFAIK be perfectly legal under the laws of my country so I just have to find a nice and easy means of doing this.

I'd like a container format where I can put in different audio streams and subtitles for selection in Totem under playback to give me the option of watching directors comments but I am not sure if a suitable one exists.