Activity here has gone way down

[wolfen69]

I remember 2-3 years ago when I chatted here, it was almost real time responses. Now it's 2 or 3 days. Am i the only one that has noticed a decline in activity?

[David D.]

I too have noticed that activity has slowed. A few years ago when you logged onto the forums and it had been a hour or two, you could not get all the posts when selecting "New Posts". Now it is much longer.

[cariboo]

Our user base is changing, we now have more community members looking for answers to questions, that aren't aware the Cafe even exists. In some ways I like it, and in others it's sad to see, but things change, and there isn't much we can do to keep the status quo.

[ELD]

Nowadays we also have that Ubuntu Answers QA site that a lot of people prefer to use for direct questions.

Mint has gained a load more popularity and no doubt there is a % of users who now user their forums too.

Then there is people like me started his own site, that got more popular and just hasn't had much time to come back...but hellloooo!

[lancest]

My theory is that there may be less interest in the PC desktop in general.

Android for instance.

There are doubtless other possible explanations.

That said- 12.04 is pretty exciting and has pulled me away from my ASUS Transformer.

[AMCjavelin74]

My theory is that there may be less interest in the PC desktop in general.

Android for instance.

There are doubtless other possible explanations.

That said- 12.04 is pretty exciting and has pulled me away from my ASUS Transformer.


He has a point. Some say that Ubuntu seems to have been a 'beta test' for a touch interface (think mobile/tablet) and it makes sense that they're going after the said market.

However-- you can't really build and upgrade hardware with a tablet/cell phone like you can an actual desktop. If you use it for a couple years just to throw it away, it's an appliance. If you use it, upgrade, use it, upgrade some more, then it's something a little more significant.

[sdowney717]

IMO, the reason is this entire subforum was shut down for awhile a couple or a year ago due to too much raucous behavior, political posts, religious posts, attack posts etc... was not percieved as a nice forum anymore and the monitors wanted it to cool off. They even debated getting rid of it entirely.
It also went thru several bizarre name changes like " pretty pink ponies ", etc...
So when you dont have a totally free exchange of thoughts flowing, people just wont post and go elsewhere.

[CharlesA]

IMO, the reason is this entire subforum was shut down for awhile a couple or a year ago due to too much raucous behavior, political posts, religious posts, attack posts etc... was not percieved as a nice forum anymore and the monitors wanted it to cool off. They even debated getting rid of it entirely.
It also went thru several bizarre name changes like " pretty pink ponies ", etc...
So when you dont have a totally free exchange of thoughts flowing, people just wont post and go elsewhere.
The Cafe and other non-support areas were closed down in order to make the forum usable for support requests due to server hardware issues a while back. Is this what you are referring to?

As for the "freedom of speech" thing, keep in mind that this is a moderated forum.

[sdowney717]

no, I remember that shutdown also.
The one I mentioned people ought to remember if they have been here a few years.

here is a reference to this going back to 2008

http://www.mikesplanet.net/2008/04/omg-pink-ponies-here-to-stay/


The Backyard is now called “OMG pInK pOnIeS” in honor of the famous Slashdot.org April Fool’s Day prank of 2006 (Google it), and the default text color is now pink, because it has had such a positive impact on posting styles and caused a drastic decrease in the number of reported posts from this forum.

[CharlesA]

Ah, before my time then.

Thanks.

[Bölvaður]

The main difference between now and then is the lack of LaRoza (http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2007/12/21/an-interview-with-laroza/) and the quantity of ranting/trolling. Also I feel like the ratio of (linux) news related threads are more now than before.

[sdowney717]

I dont know why people cant be a little more thick skinned about things. The first little thing will set them off. Then they foment some inner rage and quickly express it. I see this all the time now on the roads driving around. You cut in front of people to get over to change lanes in a normal manner and you get sworn at or flipped off. I think road rages have gotten worse in the last 2 years.
Plus when someone says something and your getting offended why not chill out without hitting back like a kid in a fight or running to mom.

[rg4w]

My theory is that there may be less interest in the PC desktop in general.
While the mobile space is certainly growing rapidly, starting from zero it can only move in one direction, up. Meanwhile we already have PCs, at near-saturation levels, so it's not surprising to see relative sales growth lower than the new kid on the block when it comes to purchases of new computing devices.

But that said, ever notice that the company that coined the term "post-PC era" still sells PCs?

Indeed, more than a few analysts see solid growth for PCs in 2012 and beyond - this one notes that PCs will make up 75% of computing device sales this year and maintain a solid majority as far out as 2016:
http://www.zdnet.co.uk/blogs/jacks-blog-10017212/idc-predicts-annual-pc-sales-climbing-above-500m-10025689/

Mobile's getting all the attention a new form factor should. But for all the articles about the post-PC era, almost all were written on a PC. Folks still have work to do, and while tablets are getting more powerful we also find PCs getting smaller and more portable.

I don't see the future as one of displacement among form factors as much as enhancement - an ever growing diversity of devices, each performing a role optimal for it, and with Ubuntu and ever greater degree of integration among them all.

[QIII]

Too many people concentrating on bean gathering?

[ubuntu27]

no, I remember that shutdown also.
The one I mentioned people ought to remember if they have been here a few years.

here is a reference to this going back to 2008

http://www.mikesplanet.net/2008/04/omg-pink-ponies-here-to-stay/

I remember those pink-ies.. er.. golden times. We used to have so much more fun then.
Ubuntuforums was not just a support forum, but a "weird" place to hang out to if you wanted to talk about random and interesting stuff.



The main difference between now and then is the lack of LaRoza (http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2007/12/21/an-interview-with-laroza/) and the quantity of ranting/trolling. Also I feel like the ratio of (linux) news related threads are more now than before.

I miss LaRoza (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=266234), bored2k (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=8743), kingbahamut (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=13653), Stormy Eyes (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=14878), JillSwift (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=380445), kassetra (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=7047), and others I can't think of the name right now.

Oh,,, talking about Kassetra! Do you remember the time when many of us had customized PowerPuff Girls avatar? :lolflag:


.... I bet no-one will miss me when I leave ><:

[rg4w]

I remember those pink-ies.. er.. golden times. We used to have so much more fun then.
Ubuntuforums was not just a support forum, but a "weird" place to hang out to if you wanted to talk about random and interesting stuff.
I appreciate the earnest work of the moderators here, but this is by far the most heavily moderated forum I've ever seen after participating in online communities since literally before the Web was invented.

I sometimes find myself longing for another forum where candid discussion can be allowed to flow unabated.

I recognize that may differ from the mandate of this forum, and I respect that.

But I long for that sort of open and free sharing of ideas just the same....

[s.fox]

I sometimes find myself longing for another forum where candid discussion can be allowed to flow unabated.

Nothing is stopping you joining other online communities.


I recognize that may differ from the mandate of this forum, and I respect that.

"Our house, our rules" applies. Thank you for respecting the Code of Conduct (http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy).

[Bandit]

I remember 2-3 years ago when I chatted here, it was almost real time responses. Now it's 2 or 3 days. Am i the only one that has noticed a decline in activity?

Yea I have noticed this a lot. :(

[BrokenKingpin]

Maybe it is just the quality of the discussions. For the longest time this seemed like and Apple forum, and too often people just post a single link with no input or opinions of their own. There are far better places for me to get my news from, so don't just post the URL with no insight.

Also, with things like twitter and Google Plus I think the forums are becoming less popular for this type of communication and discussion (which is a shame). It is hard to say there is a direct correlation here, but there has to be some effect.

Now I will wait for 3 days for someone to reply to this :P.

[era86]

i miss the debates in pink ponies... nothing like reading over a 3 page response on my lunch break

[Shazaam]

*dons flameproof shorts*
I think the change to an unpolished Unity chased off a lot of users. For me, it meant sticking with Lucid (and installing Xubuntu). The current popularity of Mint also bears this out.
But, I am really liking Kubuntu Precise. It does not have that bloated kde feel to it that past versions had.

[KiwiNZ]

From someone that has been here since day one I can tell you that the more open Forums we had in the past like pink ponies were a nightmare. They created endless problems for staff and some very nasty personal attacks on staff and their families. It created endless activity in the Resolution Center and more work than warranted for staff.
When we had these sub-forums the problems and attitude would spill over into other areas of the Forums.
Their cost on stress,upset and stall time simply was not worth it.

[johnb820]

It's because there's not very much we are actually allowed to talk about around here any more. It's the general off-topic forum, but you're not allowed to talk about anything off topic. Moderators, don't hurt me!

[KiwiNZ]

It's because there's not very much we are actually allowed to talk about around here any more. It's the general off-topic forum, but you're not allowed to talk about anything off topic. Moderators, don't hurt me!

"Almost any non-tech-support topic may be discussed here. Discussions on religion and politics are not allowed. These two topics have caused serious problems in the past and are now forbidden topics in the forums."

Remember these Forums are for Ubuntu Support. The non-support sections are provided as an extra. Please remember all staff are volunteers and as such do have lives outside these Forums. Therefore this is why we ask members to self moderate what they discuss here. After all there is approximately 37689757789 other locales on the www to exercise freedom of speech.

[Bandit]

It's because there's not very much we are actually allowed to talk about around here any more. It's the general off-topic forum, but you're not allowed to talk about anything off topic. Moderators, don't hurt me!

Other then Religion and Politics (for good reasons), I have never seen anything you couldn't talk about here. Cars, fitness, hair, music, computer gear, TV, movies, world events, how your day is, etc.. etc.. are all allowed as long as they offend anyone or hit R&P. So there is plenty to talk about, just no ones chatting. Even the IRC chit chat channel has over 50 users at any given time and the chat screen hardly moves. Its saddening the least. But I think its that (or at least I feel) that everyone is loosing a common ground for discussion since the split from Gnome2 to Unity or Gnome3. But that's a whole other discussion, one that truly is probably better off left dead..

[Linuxratty]

I appreciate the earnest work of the moderators here, but this is by far the most heavily moderated forum I've ever seen after participating in online communities since literally before the Web was invented.

Never went to Klikit forums did ya...I was lambasted by a mod for putting up a link to A Prairie Home Companion as an example. This is mild compared to Klikit. The mods eventually ran everyone off and the forum closed.
I don't really have a problem with the moderation here and if I really want to let my hair down,I can go to LI.


I sometimes find myself longing for another forum where candid discussion can be allowed to flow unabated.


Well I spend a lot of time at http://linuxinternationals.org/, which is less modded than here.
I've also noticed that this part of the Ubuntu forum is not as active as it was years ago,but still I like coming here.

[lancest]

While the mobile space is certainly growing rapidly, starting from zero it can only move in one direction, up. Meanwhile we already have PCs, at near-saturation levels, so it's not surprising to see relative sales growth lower than the new kid on the block when it comes to purchases of new computing devices.

But that said, ever notice that the company that coined the term "post-PC era" still sells PCs?

Indeed, more than a few analysts see solid growth for PCs in 2012 and beyond - this one notes that PCs will make up 75% of computing device sales this year and maintain a solid majority as far out as 2016:
http://www.zdnet.co.uk/blogs/jacks-blog-10017212/idc-predicts-annual-pc-sales-climbing-above-500m-10025689/

Mobile's getting all the attention a new form factor should. But for all the articles about the post-PC era, almost all were written on a PC. Folks still have work to do, and while tablets are getting more powerful we also find PCs getting smaller and more portable.

I don't see the future as one of displacement among form factors as much as enhancement - an ever growing diversity of devices, each performing a role optimal for it, and with Ubuntu and ever greater degree of integration among them all.

I agree with all that. However lets just admit that the excitement isn't just in the desktop pc anymore. Might be seen as a bit less disruptive.

[yabbadabbadont]

I miss RAV TUX (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=44986). The originator of many of the word games.

[blithen]

Yep, I feel the same way. Hell, I'm one of the people who just eventually up and left. I spent hours here back when I first joined. Now all my friends aren't here and it's hard trying to post and enjoy myself when so many familiar faces are gone.

[lisati]

As others have noticed, the user base has changed. Several of the participants who were familiar faces when I joined have moved on, some on peaceful terms, others in less than fortunate circumstances.

We're a dynamic community here made up of people from a variety of backgrounds, and, for the most part, we seem to get on fairly well. This is probably summed up by a common theme in the CoC and other guidelines: respect.

[forrestcupp]

If you really miss OMG Pink Ponies so much, just go check out OMG Cheesecake with all the other trolls that have some need to prove to the world that they know how to cuss and trash people.


IMO, the reason is this entire subforum was shut down for awhile a couple or a year ago due to too much raucous behavior, political posts, religious posts, attack posts etc... was not percieved as a nice forum anymore and the monitors wanted it to cool off. They even debated getting rid of it entirely.
It also went thru several bizarre name changes like " pretty pink ponies ", etc...
So when you dont have a totally free exchange of thoughts flowing, people just wont post and go elsewhere.

This subforum wasn't shut down back then. The Cafe was a separate section from The Backyard/OMG Pink Ponies.

[anontheanon]

Americans tend to have a strong 'Freedom of Speech' bias, even on private forums where property rights trump public rights. The feeling is that any forum that is open to the general public, like a place of business or even a super-mall, is somewhat subject to freedom of speech....legally this is not true, but its a bias that many Americans have.

The other bias is 'truth in advertising'. If a forum says you can talk about anything, then people expect to be allowed to talk about anything. If a rule was not posted by a moderator takes it upon themselves to lock your thread then it feels lot more personal and vindictive as a 'judgment call' compared to having a clear impersonal set of rules that you can point to.

Besides the style of moderation being largely unpopular in US audiences, I dont think Unity is as popular as was hoped. I see a lot of people scattering. Mint seems to be stealing Ubuntus thunder lately, as was the case from Debian back in the day. Clem is proving to be a more competent coder than just 'Ubuntu + restricted extra + Medibuntu + Mint-Menu + Mint tools'.....There is now a lot of under the hood overhaul and the contribution of Cinnamon and t the MATE project are excellent. Even the Arch crowd are supporting Mints efforts to build Cinnamon now, and even Mageia is talking about using it as an alternative to Gnome3.....Nobody is talking about porting Unity to their distro :(

People apparently dont want a knock-off of IOS on their desktop.


This is just my honest evaluation. Ubuntu has done a lot of good for the Linux community. I also dont think ubuntu is 'going anywhere'. I look forward to Ubuntu TV and similar projects, and to ubuntu on smart appliances (And I mean actual utility hardware appliances, not what is considered an 'appliance' on a desktop ;)

Also, I think more people are going to Facebok and alternative sites like OMGUbuntu for advice....certainly for more open discussion.



The thing is, its the open discussion which brings in the regs. The regs answer questions. Having regs and drama and politics can be a headache, and people can worry about how that 'represents' them, but a larger audience hanging out = more people who could answer support questions....Few people are likely to only be in the cooler or only in the support section. More people chatting about politics = more people to answer technical questions.


When talking about the advantages of Ubuntu over other distros, besides non-free drivers and the .deb package management, the size of the support community is probably one of the biggest routine arguments for using Ubuntu over other more noob friendly distros. Without the community you lose your ace in the hole for marketability.

You need a balance though. I was in another forum and I left for good as soon as people started doxing each other on public forums. :(

[Bandit]

Americans tend to have a strong 'Freedom of Speech' bias, even on private forums where property rights trump public rights. The feeling is that any forum that is open to the general public, like a place of business or even a super-mall, is somewhat subject to freedom of speech....legally this is not true, but its a bias that many Americans have.

The other bias is 'truth in advertising'. If a forum says you can talk about anything, then people expect to be allowed to talk about anything. If a rule was not posted by a moderator takes it upon themselves to lock your thread then it feels lot more personal and vindictive as a 'judgment call' compared to having a clear impersonal set of rules that you can point to.

This is very true. Even when not meaning to be. Americans are just born stubborn, think about it, its the melting pot of the world. Everyone that was stubborn or had it with their own country moves here. :lolflag:

[juancarlospaco]

Debian is porting Unity for them, i used USC on Debian BSD.

[cariboo]

Americans tend to have a strong 'Freedom of Speech' bias, even on private forums where property rights trump public rights. The feeling is that any forum that is open to the general public, like a place of business or even a super-mall, is somewhat subject to freedom of speech....legally this is not true, but its a bias that many Americans have.

You're assuming the majority of our community members are based in the US, which just isn't true. I actually see quite a drop off in active members when the Europeans go to bed, and a rise in numbers when they get up.

[KiwiNZ]

You're assuming the majority of our community members are based in the US, which just isn't true. I actually see quite a drop off in active members when the Europeans go to bed, and a rise in numbers when they get up.

Don't forget the New Zealanders :p

[lisati]

Don't forget the New Zealanders :p

There are quite a few of us lurking around.

[cariboo]

Don't forget the New Zealanders :p


There are quite a few of us lurking around.

You guys are a day ahead of us, so I always have wait a day for the results to show ):P

[mips]

You're assuming the majority of our community members are based in the US, which just isn't true. I actually see quite a drop off in active members when the Europeans go to bed, and a rise in numbers when they get up.

Just out of curiosity do you guys have any stats on the general location of your members? (Planet earth is not an answer) Would be interesting to see.

[Linuxratty]

You're assuming the majority of our community members are based in the US, which just isn't true. I actually see quite a drop off in active members when the Europeans go to bed, and a rise in numbers when they get up.

I'd enjoy seeing the stats on that.

[MG&TL]

. Even the IRC chit chat channel has over 50 users at any given time and the chat screen hardly moves.

Disagree with that. Maybe you were just there at a bad time, it's always really active (for IRC) when I'm there. We've had some good times.

[CharlesA]

Disagree with that. Maybe you were just there at a bad time, it's always really active (for IRC) when I'm there. We've have some good times.
I guess it depends on what channel you are in.

Last time I checked the #ubuntu channel was busy.

[madjr]

in general i think activity has gone down because we have less driver issues and unity is getting better lol ! :)

[Simian Man]

The direction of Ubuntu has shifted from being a good general Linux distro to being something targeted at novices. I'm not surprised that the quantity and quality of forum users has dropped off as a result of this.

[ubuntu27]

Well, even if the rules changed and the OMG P.P. are gone, this is still a great forum.

[sffvba[e0rt]

The direction of Ubuntu has shifted from being a good general Linux distro to being something targeted at novices. I'm not surprised that the quantity and quality of forum users has dropped off as a result of this.

I don't think the quality of the forum members have dropped off at all. You are all awesome!


404

[madjr]

I don't think the quality of the forum members have dropped off at all. You are all awesome!


404

tnakhs!!

[PapaGary]

Our user base is changing, we now have more community members looking for answers to questions, that aren't aware the Cafe even exists. In some ways I like it, and in others it's sad to see, but things change, and there isn't much we can do to keep the status quo.
Having been on various forums since 1991 I would have to agree with the above. It used to be (and still is for most of us) that you joined a forum and perused the posts daily to see if you could pick up something useful from what others are doing. Now has come a shift in forum use from people who just log in when they have a problem. They are not interested in what others are doing they just want to find a solution and get out.

Sad.

[Bandit]

Disagree with that. Maybe you were just there at a bad time, it's always really active (for IRC) when I'm there. We've had some good times.

I guess it depends on what channel you are in.
Last time I checked the #ubuntu channel was busy.
The main support one does stay busy from what I have seen but the off topic one --> #ubuntu-offtopic doesnt seem to be chaty as much anymore. Then again it may be that everyone else has a life and I am just there at a bad time.. lol


The direction of Ubuntu has shifted from being a good general Linux distro to being something targeted at novices. I'm not surprised that the quantity and quality of forum users has dropped off as a result of this.
Well getting more new users is a good thing. They may not know as much, but over all I give more credit to a new user trying to use linux the best he can even when he/she says they dont know anything more so then a windows user that swears they are an expert..


I don't think the quality of the forum members have dropped off at all. You are all awesome!
404
Well said..
And I promise to try to refrain from drunken rants.. hehe :lolflag:

[KiwiNZ]

The direction of Ubuntu has shifted from being a good general Linux distro to being something targeted at novices. I'm not surprised that the quantity and quality of forum users has dropped off as a result of this.


Maybe insults keep them from posting here:rolleyes::mad:

[kevdog]

LaRaza and RavTux -- I haven't thought about those two guys (remember LaRaza -- boy or girl debate??) for a long time -- weren't both mods at one point or another? Ok I don't mean to dig up skeletons since there was a lot of controversy about their outings.

As far as the Backyard/OMGPP, yes I miss those times, however I seem to be a lot calmer now that they are gone. I really when some of the discussions really went heated and I became too personally invested in the arguments. In a way, I don't miss it. I guess I always lacked self control to stay away from that subforum.

User attrition is always a problem. I guess its like life however -- you grow up and develop new responsibilities or interests.

[Peripheral Visionary]

Oh don't worry, there's alot of us newbies coming up. Even once in awhile we learn enough to help others!

I'm one of those "casual users" that the 'buntus are aimed at. But it's still hard not to learn stuff just by using it. And because I'm so new, I keep notes on everything I do, what works and what doesn't, that sort of thing. I'm not aiming at being a geeky guru or anything, but like any appliance that needs maintenance and updating, I'm learning enough that I can even help others once in awhile. And I'm not even really trying!

I think this "community" is really cool. I've learned quite a bit just from "lurking" here long before I finally joined. So thanks for that, and thanks in advance for what is yet to come!

[MG&TL]

#ubuntu-offtopic doesnt seem to be chaty as much anymore.

Oh. I thought you meant #ubuntuforums.

[lancest]

Ubuntuforums was never redesigned.
It could be a factor.

Here's to good memories.

[Bandit]

Oh. I thought you meant #ubuntuforums.

Yea I wasnt clear. My bad.


At least this thread has seemed to have woken up a few long time users. Happy to see many are still around here. :-)

I know for the past 2 years a havent been able to really contribute like I wanted to, but then again thats what happens when you have to head back to college and are already married with a family. But I am done now and got a steady job. Hoping to be able to help more like I used to this summer between family and fishing. :)

[Random_Dude]

I haven't too been in the forum lately. Not any particular reason besides being very busy.
I think the main reason is unity. A lot of people complained when it arrived and then activity decreased, it's not a coincidence IMHO.

I almost changed to Debian (hardware annoyances prevented me from doing it), not because of Unity, but because with Ubuntu I have to recompile the kernel every time I update it (hardware).
I don't think that Unity is as user-friendly as Canonical wanted it to be. From my personal experience, novices tend to complain and say that it's not intuitive and the side bar is annoying.

I've tried using Unity and I did not liked, so I'll probably change distro when I have time (xubuntu or mint).

Cheers :cool:

[ikt]

I don't think that Unity is as user-friendly as Canonical wanted it to be. From my personal experience, novices tend to complain and say that it's not intuitive and the side bar is annoying.

As opposed to saying gnome is not intuitive, the icons are too small and the entire DE is positively out of date?

The thing with novices is that you have to sit down with them and use it, show them how to do things, what works best, instead of installing it and leaving them to figure stuff out.

I should know, I talk to people who can't find the address bar in Internet Explorer.

[forrestcupp]

I don't think the quality of the forum members have dropped off at all. You are all awesome!


404That's because you weren't here yet back when people were really awesome! :D
Just joking.


As far as the Backyard/OMGPP, yes I miss those times, however I seem to be a lot calmer now that they are gone. I really when some of the discussions really went heated and I became too personally invested in the arguments. In a way, I don't miss it. I guess I always lacked self control to stay away from that subforum.
Everything you said here is exactly how I felt about it. I hated it, but I couldn't stay away. :)

I think I was probably at a 10x greater risk for a heart attack or stroke in those days.

[Random_Dude]

As opposed to saying gnome is not intuitive, the icons are too small and the entire DE is positively out of date?

Despite being out of date, it's more similar to what you get in windows. That's why they feel more comfortable with it.



The thing with novices is that you have to sit down with them and use it, show them how to do things, what works best, instead of installing it and leaving them to figure stuff out.

I should know, I talk to people who can't find the address bar in Internet Explorer.
True. But the novice users that I'm talking about are a little more experienced than that. Most know at least one programming language.
Like I said, Unity is very different from what you are used to when you come from Windows. But I admit that my sample size is not that large, and that your experience might be very different from mine.

I'm not here to bash Unity, I actually got fed up with seeing rants about it every single day on the Cafe.
But that doesn't mean that I don't think that it might have had a negative impact on the number of users. Because if the old Ubuntu users stop using Ubuntu and start using Mint, they will not recommend Ubuntu to novices.

Cheers :cool:

[Erik1984]

I can tell from my own experience on other forums that there comes a moment where it gets old. Some people leave, things might become less interesting, your life changes (maybe just less time to spend online for hobby), your interests change etc, you might get sick of your chosen identity. Of course you also notice the same discussions over and over again. Like watching an identical chess game, same moves, same counters. I'm talking about online discussion in general. My point: It's just a natural forums thing that activity varies and people leave :p

[KiwiNZ]

Like the flow of a river sometimes high sometimes low. At times there is a flood and at times there is a drought. With variable constant of presence it stays and stays and stays.

[Erik1984]

Like the flow of a river sometimes high sometimes low. At times there is a flood and at times there is a drought. With variable constant of presence it stays and stays and stays.
That's what I said... only more poetic and eloquent :p

[samalex]

As a few mentioned the shutdown around 2008 or 2009 is what really turned me away, though it was due to hardware problems IIRC. I was forced to find other outlets and stumbled on Reddit which has since grabbed much of my 'idol' attention when I'm not working on other projects. I have since started frequenting Ubuntu Forums again, but I've not seen the same levels of activity as there were before the server was locked a year or two ago.

[koleoptero]

I have noticed that the drop in activity here has resulted in a rise in quality. I haven't seen a thread turn into a brawl in a long time. So yay for that.

[forrestcupp]

I have noticed that the drop in activity here has resulted in a rise in quality. I haven't seen a thread turn into a brawl in a long time. So yay for that.

That's probably more because they shut them down too fast. It's a chicken/egg scenario. Are there less brawls because there is less activity, or is there less activity because there are less brawls? ;)

Off topic, every time I see your name, I think of coleoptera. :)

[kurt18947]

I haven't too been in the forum lately. Not any particular reason besides being very busy.
I think the main reason is unity. A lot of people complained when it arrived and then activity decreased, it's not a coincidence IMHO.

I almost changed to Debian (hardware annoyances prevented me from doing it), not because of Unity, but because with Ubuntu I have to recompile the kernel every time I update it (hardware).
I don't think that Unity is as user-friendly as Canonical wanted it to be. From my personal experience, novices tend to complain and say that it's not intuitive and the side bar is annoying.

I've tried using Unity and I did not liked, so I'll probably change distro when I have time (xubuntu or mint).

Cheers :cool:

Not so sure it's the novices that are bent out of shape ;-). Though Unity is not my cup of tea it has gotten better in 12.04 I think.

[blithen]

LaRaza and RavTux -- I haven't thought about those two guys (remember LaRaza -- boy or girl debate??) for a long time -- weren't both mods at one point or another? Ok I don't mean to dig up skeletons since there was a lot of controversy about their outings.

As far as the Backyard/OMGPP, yes I miss those times, however I seem to be a lot calmer now that they are gone. I really when some of the discussions really went heated and I became too personally invested in the arguments. In a way, I don't miss it. I guess I always lacked self control to stay away from that subforum.

User attrition is always a problem. I guess its like life however -- you grow up and develop new responsibilities or interests.

Oh man...LaRoza(raza? /shrugs) I miss them both so much...lots of good memories with them. Espcially Rav, I mean just take a gander at my signature. ;)

[LowSky]

I blame Unity. Seriously. The user base is slipping and with that comes less people here. Also you don't have to post anything new when 10 people before you had the problem. Also far too often new posts go into the deep dark recurring discussions. They never see light again.

[Bandit]

I blame Unity. Seriously. The user base is slipping and with that comes less people here. Also you don't have to post anything new when 10 people before you had the problem. Also far too often new posts go into the deep dark recurring discussions. They never see light again.

I was reading a post the other day and when I got done replying I ended up in recurring. Kinda felt like I lost my car at the mall again.. :confused:

[CharlesA]

I was reading a post the other day and when I got done replying I ended up in recurring. Kinda felt like I lost my car at the mall again.. :confused:
Oh, oh! Was it about antivirus or security? :p

[Bandit]

Oh, oh! Was it about antivirus or security? :p

LOL dont remember.. :lolflag:

Dude, wheres my car???

[CharlesA]

LOL dont remember.. :lolflag:

Dude, wheres my car???
:lolflag:

I hear you there.. it sometimes seems like it all runs together..

[wolfen69]

I sometimes find myself longing for another forum where candid discussion can be allowed to flow unabated.


That's fine, but you have to remember that this is an ubuntu help forum first, and chitter chatter comes second. There are MANY forums out there where discussion can flow "unabated" as you put it. We have an extremely family friendly forum here, and allowing certain discussions would go against that philosophy.

You are allowed to speak your mind, as long as it follows the forum guidelines. There was a conscious decision to make it this way, so things never get out of hand, and not so much as to limit your freedom of speech.

I've been apart of forums where the ability to say anything you want, scares a # of people away. We don't want that, and want everyone to have/show respect for other people, and enjoy themselves.

But in reality, things can get heated here, but as long as you follow the rules, you can disagree all you want and still speak your mind.

[wolfen69]

Like the flow of a river sometimes high sometimes low. At times there is a flood and at times there is a drought. With variable constant of presence it stays and stays and stays.

True. Expect it to pick up after 12.04 is released.

I'm so new, I keep notes on everything I do, what works and what doesn't, that sort of thing.
So did I! I still have a folder to this day (with answers) for help related questions that might come up while I'm looking for someone to help. We all can't remember everything.

But to keep on topic, it's interesting to see everyone's opinions on why forum usage has tailed off a bit. But to be honest as someone who frequents many forums, I think a lot of them are less busy than they used to be. Not just ubuntuforums. I'm sure there are many factors that go into this.

[Bandit]

True. Expect it to pick up after 12.04 is released.

Unity is really maturing, I think it will.

[wolfen69]

Unity is really maturing, I think it will.

I believe that too, but I've realized you need thick skin around here. Maybe it's good that I'm getting old(er) and just don't care as much if people don't like what I use. Meh.

You won't see me complaining over at the windows and mac boards. It accomplishes nothing except a debate at the very least, and an all out flame war at its worst. No thanks.

[KiwiNZ]

True. Expect it to pick up after 12.04 is released.

.

Yep I already have my Armour ready:p

[wolfen69]

Yep I already have my Armour ready:p
I built an atomic bomb proof shelter. I'm ready.

Help them if they need it, if not, wish them well. Leave a good taste in their mouths when they leave.
:guitar: :guitar: :guitar:

[KiwiNZ]

i built an atomic bomb proof shelter. I'm ready.

Help them if they need it, if not, wish them well. Leave a good taste in their mouths when they leave.
:guitar: :guitar: :guitar:

+1

[Bandit]

I built an atomic bomb proof shelter. I'm ready.


O' dear!! [-o<

[ubuntu27]

But to keep on topic, it's interesting to see everyone's opinions on why forum usage has tailed off a bit. But to be honest as someone who frequents many forums, I think a lot of them are less busy than they used to be. Not just ubuntuforums. I'm sure there are many factors that go into this.

I also got that feeling as well. It seems to me that the novelty and "coolness" of the Internet has wore off.

Some other forums that I used to frequent, the activity has gone down so much so that it is practically inactive. Even I don't visit them anymore.


In my Internet Messager, I have around 40 contants. But, only 3 usually come online. The rest are gone. On a lucky day, I get maximum of 5 people online. Many abandoned the ship called "messaging".

Oh, yes, I see the same thing with Facebook. Even tough Facebook is acquiring new users in a surprising rate, many are starting to leave facebook or simply not using them.

[dmizer]

I think Ubuntu's meteoric rise attracted too many trolls, and in part they have been successful in their attempts to socially paint Ubuntu in a negative light. Unity was not a mistake for Ubuntu, it was a necessary and intelligent move. The problem was that, at the time Unity was introduced, the community was under attack by so many trolls badmouthing Ubuntu that no one in the community felt safe to say positive things about Ubuntu or Unity.

Suddenly it was vogue in Ubuntu's forum to badmouth Ubuntu. The community was not allowed to get behind Ubuntu, be positive about it, and really support it. There was a systematic shaming of those members who were even mildly positive about supporting Ubuntu. It was because of that, that my forum activity went from several hours a day to several hours a month.

It doesn't matter how thick your skin is, if you join a community created to support a project that you're excited about only to find it full of people who only have contempt for it, you will turn away.

[arpanaut]

I think Ubuntu's meteoric rise attracted too many trolls, and in part they have been successful in their attempts to socially paint Ubuntu in a negative light. Unity was not a mistake for Ubuntu, it was a necessary and intelligent move. The problem was that, at the time Unity was introduced, the community was under attack by so many trolls badmouthing Ubuntu that no one in the community felt safe to say positive things about Ubuntu or Unity.

Suddenly it was vogue in Ubuntu's forum to badmouth Ubuntu. The community was not allowed to get behind Ubuntu, be positive about it, and really support it. There was a systematic shaming of those members who were even mildly positive about supporting Ubuntu. It was because of that, that my forum activity went from several hours a day to several hours a month.

It doesn't matter how thick your skin is, if you join a community created to support a project that you're excited about only to find it full obuntuf people who only have contempt for it, you will turn away.
Well said!
I miss your objective & succinct input around here.
Hope you are doing well.

I also believe that Ask Ubuntu has taken a lot of Q&A traffic away from here and also taken many experienced users attention away from the forums.

[ikt]

That's why they feel more comfortable with it.

They do? News to me, my dad hated gnome 2 and he's a hardcore windows fan, he's finding unity a lot easier to use.

[koleoptero]

That's probably more because they shut them down too fast. It's a chicken/egg scenario. Are there less brawls because there is less activity, or is there less activity because there are less brawls? ;)

Off topic, every time I see your name, I think of coleoptera. :)
That's what I got my nick idea from. The only nick that's mostly available when registering somewhere. :lolflag:

I was reading a post the other day and when I got done replying I ended up in recurring. Kinda felt like I lost my car at the mall again.. :confused:
I really loled. :lolflag:

[winh8r]

The drop off in activity is probably down to a combination of factors, the main ones as I see them are:

1) Facebook and social networking.

2) The length of time Ubuntu has been in existence, this means that when you enter a question or an error code in a search engine pertaining to Ubuntu, you are extremely likely to get at least three or four results on the first page that link directly to this forum. The problem is discussed, remedied and solved, so people read the information , solve their issue and don't even need to bother registering to join the forum. In this way , the forum could be said to be a victim of its own success, as there are so many perfect solutions to just about any issue related to Ubuntu here that , there is no longer a need to join in order to find a solution to your problem. This theory is illustrated by the number of new users who do register and ask often extremely basic questions , questions which would have been answered for them if they had even bothered to do any research into the issue before posting. It is often (not always) the case that these users will either ask one question and disappear or continue to post questions which have been answered hundreds of times already, but they have never used the search function and just want someone else to do the searching for them.

3) When someone posts details of a negative experience with either Ubuntu in general or Unity in particular, the resounding "use what works for you" often gets through to that person and they take the advice and go elsewhere. This thread is not about Unity, but there is a tendency amongst forum staff (not all it must be said) to be dismissive of anyone registering dislike of Unity. Negative feedback is as valuable and important as positive feedback, in some cases more so. When users feel that they are being ignored or fobbed off with "use what works" ,then they do, and if that happens to be Mint or whatever then activity on the Mint forum increases and drops here. Less members = less posting = less activity = loss of interest = less members, a vicious circle which it is hard to escape from.

It is not nice to see activity dropping off, in any forum, especially not in a forum like this where the staff and moderators do a good job of keeping everything running smoothly in a spam and porn free way.

Can active membership of this forum be increased and maintained?

I do not know.

Anyone else?

[forrestcupp]

A lot of you say it's about Unity, which it probably partly is, but you don't have to use Unity in Ubuntu. I upgraded to Precise during Beta 1, and I haven't booted into Precise's version of Unity one time. I don't even know what changes they've made to it because I already had Gnome Shell when I upgraded. I guess I should at least check it out once to say that I have.



Suddenly it was vogue in Ubuntu's forum to badmouth Ubuntu. The community was not allowed to get behind Ubuntu, be positive about it, and really support it. There was a systematic shaming of those members who were even mildly positive about supporting Ubuntu. It was because of that, that my forum activity went from several hours a day to several hours a month.That was pretty unbelievable, wasn't it? It progressed from being the Arch support forum to the Hate Ubuntu forum. You couldn't even feel safe liking Ubuntu on Ubuntu's official forum. Thank God, it seems like that phase is pretty much over.


That's what I got my nick idea from. The only nick that's mostly available when registering somewhere. :lolflag:

I figured it had to either be that or some Greek word. ;)

[sdowney717]

A lot of you say it's about Unity, which it probably partly is, but you don't have to use Unity in Ubuntu. I upgraded to Precise during Beta 1, and I haven't booted into Precise's version of Unity one time. I don't even know what changes they've made to it because I already had Gnome Shell when I upgraded. I guess I should at least check it out once to say that I have.


I decided to go with gnome 3 and moved into precise also at beta1.
It is nice to see so many ways to use linux and I think it helps to keep the projects moving to have this sort or rivalry among different desktops. People like to compete, horse races, sports, programming, etc... I think gnome 3 was such a shock and got a lot of negativity when it first came out what gnome 3 was going to do it made Ubuntu decide to pursue something different. Gnome 3 got a tremendous dumping on at first and I dont remember unity getting dragged thru the mud like gnome3.

[sffvba[e0rt]

Reading through this thread I just couldn't help but feel...

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-i9dqpYeeBSU/T4Vv20wAlEI/AAAAAAAAAlI/BQAtUewfFEk/s500/wonkymeme.png



404

PS - I tried resisting so very hard...

[neu5eeCh]

Good grief, this a stultifyingly boring and self-pitying thread and yet -- weirdly compelling, like a bad soap opera. Pass the popcorn. Is the patient dead yet? Was the forum all a dream? Is the break up for real? As the forum turns. I'm hooked. :popcorn:

[Erik1984]

Well said!
I miss your objective & succinct input around here.
Hope you are doing well.

I also believe that Ask Ubuntu has taken a lot of Q&A traffic away from here and also taken many experienced users attention away from the forums.

That's also true, there is an abundance of places to talk about Ubuntu.Main stream tech channels feature Ubuntu news items, of course we have OMG!Ubuntu, WebUpd8, /r/Ubuntu and AskUbuntu like you mention.

[mips]

A lot of you say it's about Unity, which it probably partly is, but you don't have to use Unity in Ubuntu. I upgraded to Precise during Beta 1, and I haven't booted into Precise's version of Unity one time. I don't even know what changes they've made to it because I already had Gnome Shell when I upgraded. I guess I should at least check it out once to say that I have.

That was pretty unbelievable, wasn't it? It progressed from being the Arch support forum to the Hate Ubuntu forum. You couldn't even feel safe liking Ubuntu on Ubuntu's official forum. Thank God, it seems like that phase is pretty much over.


I figured it had to either be that or some Greek word. ;)

First impressions count. I frequent a local IT/Communications forum which has a Linux sub-forum and even there the hate for Unity is strong. Many of the people there have moved to xfce, gnome 3 or kde, granted the forum is comprised of mostly highly technical people in the IT industry.

I had the misfortune of having to use Unity for 3 days recently due to corruption of my / partition and I hated every second of those 3 days before I could do a base + xfce install. Most new users would not even know how to install another DE.




Reading through this thread I just couldn't help but feel...

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-i9dqpYeeBSU/T4Vv20wAlEI/AAAAAAAAAlI/BQAtUewfFEk/s500/wonkymeme.png



404

PS - I tried resisting so very hard...

That's fine, it's very applicable to myself and i wear that badge with pride :biggrin:

PS The screenshot thread has become oh so boring, Unity pretty much looks the same irrespective of how you dress it up.

[Docaltmed]

My visitations here have dropped off dramatically, primarily because I got sick of reading the damn Unity Sux! threads. It just reminded me of a bunch of perpetually-whining 13-year olds. I've got adolescents at home, I don't need to come to a forum to listen to that.

Look, I'm not saying you gotta love the Unity to hang out here. I prefer Gnome Shell myself, though I also have Unity on a couple of computers. But, crikey, do ya have to whine about it on every damn thread in the Cafe? I mean, even on this thread, you can see the UNITYSUX crowd having to get their little digs in.

Meh. I'll come back when it's fun again.

[forrestcupp]

First impressions count. I frequent a local IT/Communications forum which has a Linux sub-forum and even there the hate for Unity is strong. Many of the people there have moved to xfce, gnome 3 or kde, granted the forum is comprised of mostly highly technical people in the IT industry.

I had the misfortune of having to use Unity for 3 days recently due to corruption of my / partition and I hated every second of those 3 days before I could do a base + xfce install. Most new users would not even know how to install another DE.
That's true about first impressions. I think that's probably going to change, though. It seems like there are less Unity hate threads, and more new users saying they like Unity because they don't know any better. ;)

The brand new people who weren't here during the horrible "Unity Sucks" days don't know that they're supposed to hate it. :)

Unity is probably a little comparable to Vista.

[mips]

That's true about first impressions. I think that's probably going to change, though. It seems like there are less Unity hate threads, and more new users saying they like Unity because they don't know any better. ;)

The brand new people who weren't here during the horrible "Unity Sucks" days don't know that they're supposed to hate it. :)


Agree 100%

I don't start threads about or anything like that, I just moved over to XFCE and I'm happy with it. Other people I know dropped Ubuntu period and moved to things like Debian or Fedora.

I don;t see the need for the ranting and raving, if you don't like it move on to something else but I do think Ubuntu should take notice of user concerns/behavior.

Did i mention I'm a happy XFCE user? :lolflag:

[TBABill]

I have observed the same drop and I have found increases in Mint's and other forums. I think it's a cycle of love/hate over DE's with Unity, Cinnamon, Gnome Shell. So much change so quickly due to the introduction of Gnome 3 that it seems to have divided the user base differently than it has been divided up before. My own preferences have continued to steer me away from Unity, then back on it for a while, then away again. I just can't figure out what my own like/dislike point is but I neither love nor hate it. I just use it, get tired of using it, then use something else for a while.

Recently I bought a *gasp* Macbook Pro and I absolutely love it. Not a single thing broken and it's a dream to use. The trackpad makes using it the most fun and easy. I really wish PC laptops could improve the touchpad as well and really incorporate smooth gesture control rather than the jerky, sometimes good/sometimes bad response all of mine seem to have. Plus, using a Mac is very similar to using Linux in that it sets up so almost the same (file system, home, root, etc.) so administering it is simple for me to transition from Windows/Linux.

Still have my other machines on Linux and try to come here daily, but the amount of questions I can help others with seems to have greatly dropped, which is back to the OP's original question. I am certain it will pick back up, especially when the LTS drops.

[Eddie Wilson]

Agree 100%

I don't start threads about or anything like that, I just moved over to XFCE and I'm happy with it. Other people I know dropped Ubuntu period and moved to things like Debian or Fedora.

I don;t see the need for the ranting and raving, if you don't like it move on to something else but I do think Ubuntu should take notice of user concerns/behavior.

Did i mention I'm a happy XFCE user? :lolflag:

I've made comments on why activity has dropped so much on these type of sub-forums. People mature and usually move on to something a little less confrontational. You can, to a degree, speak your mind here but you shouldn't be allowed to insult anyone, period. Some don't realize what free speech really means. Those lessons have not been taught to them. That's really not the sad part. The sad part is that people have to also realize that Canonical shouldn't have to take into consideration user concerns about their choice of UI. I'm mainly speaking of Unity. The same can be said of regular users who don't use what we think they should. People hate change, people hate learning new things, people hate putting fourth effort so as to have an honest opinion. If someone just doesn't like Unity, KDE, Gnome-shell, XFCE, or any of the other desktop environments, well that's just fine and dandy. The problem is when people start making judgements on something that they don't know anything about and then just jump on the bandwagon at a Unity sucks thread or anywhere else where fan-boys or fan-girls play. The talk on these sub-forums isn't about Linux anymore or how we can improve things. It's about how much things suck and how bad we as users are treated. I built my first computer in the 70's and I've seen the decline of joy that use to be felt when someone would write their first line of code, turn on their first color monitor,(my first monitor was green), or finally being able to store a program on your first tape drive. Someone made the comment that people needed tougher skins now a days but I don't believe that is the problem. People need to learn how to again have fun with their computers. Enjoy yourselves and let others do the same. If you don't like something learn how to move on if you have to, and without any kind of malice. I like Unity just fine and I don't hold it against anyone who doesn't. The same can be said and should be said for all the others. Things do change, change is good most of the time and we should never try to inhibit progress. Everyone will be happier in the long run.

[Random_Dude]

Not so sure it's the novices that are bent out of shape ;-). Though Unity is not my cup of tea it has gotten better in 12.04 I think.
I haven't tried it either.
But it's not my cup of tea either, so I'll probably use something else.


They do? News to me, my dad hated gnome 2 and he's a hardcore windows fan, he's finding unity a lot easier to use.
Like I said, different people. I can only speak for the ones I know.

Cheers :cool:

[neu5eeCh]

I've been using Ubuntu 12.04 since Beta 1, and I've learned to use it "natively". That said, I find myself back in Xubuntu/XFCE and happy to be there. I love XFCE. Compared to Unity, it's more flexible, customizable, featureful, efficient and just plain fun. However, just because I don't like Ubuntu doesn't mean I don't enjoy the forum/cafe. I'm not convinced there's really a correlation between the DE (allowing that it's linux or ubuntu-based) and interest in the forum. People change. I've left a number of forums over the years.

[Peripheral Visionary]

I think Ubuntu's meteoric rise attracted too many trolls, and in part they have been successful in their attempts to socially paint Ubuntu in a negative light. ... the community was under attack by so many trolls badmouthing Ubuntu that no one in the community felt safe to say positive things about Ubuntu or Unity.

I "lurked" here (and elsewhere in other 'nix forums) for months before finally joining, once I felt "safe" in doing so. Even without participating myself, I was made to feel small (well, smaller - I'm little to begin with) for using "the kiddie distro," the "beginner's distro," "for people who can't install Debian," etc. - all from the same people who love "kiddie" TV shows like My Little Pony, lol. I watched from a distance as the trolls had their say, threads got closed, and 'buntu bashers finally leave out of boredom, perhaps, since people stopped feeding the trolls.

[Irihapeti]

For me, it's not so much about what people say or think - it's about how they express themselves. A common dynamic seems to involve bashing and belittling others for their opinions, and treating one's own preference as though it were an objective and universal truth. And then telling others to grow a thicker skin when they object.

A certain amount of thick-skinned-ness can be useful, but there comes a point where the whole thing just gets old - especially when you've got other stuff going on in your life. Maybe at this point a number of us think, "Well, I'm not really offering much, anyway, so I won't be missed." Trouble is, often those who have the most to offer downplay their contribution, and the result is the loss of their expertise to us all.

Communicating with respect would go a long way toward solving a lot of the things that the mods have to deal with - but I'm well aware that I'd be delusional if I ever thought that would universally happen. :)

[Mopar1973Man]

Sounds so familar... I'm a forum junky of sorts and float from one forum to another and each forum has a hate this threads somewhere where they beats the product / manufacture down to nothing for a year or so.

No matter what you get these days everything has a weak spot somewhere. Instead of beating up the product and manufacture, how about learning how to get around said weak spot with some knowledge.

So here I am wondering the ubuntu forum trying to learn Linux... :lolflag:

[sffvba[e0rt]

PS The screenshot thread has become oh so boring, Unity pretty much looks the same irrespective of how you dress it up.

Don't know about that, this month I have seen plenty of awesome KDE setups.


404

edit: Oh and VinDSL always have awesome Unity desktops and in time as the community makes more and more tools I am sure default Unity desktops will become less and less prevalent in the threads again :)

[Giant Speck]

I used to be pretty active on here, but I doubt my reputation was all that positive. I lost interest with Ubuntu after Unity, but have recently returned to it now that GNOME Classic has become usable.

[koleoptero]

PS The screenshot thread has become oh so boring, Unity pretty much looks the same irrespective of how you dress it up.
http://i52.tinypic.com/1z2d15x.jpg

I used to be pretty active on here, but I doubt my reputation was all that positive. I lost interest with Ubuntu after Unity, but have recently returned to it now that GNOME Classic has become usable.
Go post a screenshot now!

[sffvba[e0rt]

<Awesome Neil Patrick Harris>

Go post a screenshot now!

:D Love Doogie Howser (even have a random picture of him in my About page on my blog for no apparent reason)


404

[Erik1984]

-img-

Go post a screenshot now!

:lolflag: You will succeed!

[neu5eeCh]

@ koleoptero

Move the launcher to the right side and I'll be wicked impressed. Hide the panel and I'll be floored.

[mips]

http://i52.tinypic.com/1z2d15x.jpg



I'm sure I will be impressed, have always liked your work ;)

[wojox]

<snip>

legen -- wait for it -- dary! Awesome WM is also named after him. :p

[koleoptero]

:D Love Doogie Howser (even have a random picture of him in my About page on my blog for no apparent reason)


404
:D

:lolflag: You will succeed!
:mrgreen:

@ koleoptero

Move the launcher to the right side and I'll be wicked impressed. Hide the panel and I'll be floored.
I said to make it look good and/or different. The launcher I'll probably find some monkeyworkaround to completely ditch and use another dock. The panel I won't hide, I love it and it's brilliant, just needs proper bg and icons.

I'm sure I will be impressed, have always liked your work ;)
:mrgreen:

legen -- wait for it -- dary! Awesome WM is also named after him. :p
:lolflag: so true.

[wolfen69]

First impressions count. I frequent a local IT/Communications forum which has a Linux sub-forum and even there the hate for Unity is strong.

Any community where "hate" against a another DE makes people delirious, needs to re-evaluate what their priorities are. I "dislike "windows very much, but you'll never hear a bad word about it from my mouth. I realize many people use it, and my dissension won't change it. Plus, I have more important things to worry about in my life. Consider this thread closed, and I hope you get over it and move on with your life.

[lisati]

Closed by request of OP