Ideas how to make HP cooperate?

[troymius]

Recently I bought a refurbished computer from HP. It was supposed to be as new. It worked for a couple of days, then died. No boot. Sent it to HP for repair #1. They replaced MB. When it returned to me it worked again for 2 days, then again died. No boot. Sent it back to HP for repair #2. They "re-seated CPU". It came back. It was missing one rubber foot. It looks funny as it leans against my older Dell. It worked for 5 days, then... yes you guessed it, no boot, no BIOS. The fans spin, everything else is dead just like before.

HP tells me that "we are afraid we cannot give you another system". I am tired of spending hours (~6 hours so far) with HP support and hauling the box from and to Fedex and having no use from it so far.

What are my options? Any suggestions? Dragging them to court? Posting nasty-grams all over web? Just wave my hand and buy something else? Neither is a fun thing to do. Ideas? Past experience?

Thanks!!

(Pavilion P7-1026, AMD Phenom II X4 840T, 6Gb Samsung RAM, 1Tb Hitachi HDD, CSO: JUL013, JYA521, KBG357, KCN688 )

[Bandit]

Did you purchase it via a debit card or credit card?
If so contact the card vendor and they can put a squeeze on them by holding out payment on your purchase or further transactions if dispute is not resolved. Plus in come cases you may be able to recoup your fundings for that system and let MC or Visas legal system handle it. This is one reason I dont carry cash. ;-)

[troymius]

Did you purchase it via a debit card or credit card?
If so contact the card vendor and they can put a squeeze on them by holding out payment on your purchase or further transactions if dispute is not resolved. Plus in come cases you may be able to recoup your fundings for that system and let MC or Visas legal system handle it. This is one reason I dont carry cash. ;-)

I paid with a VISA debit card and the payment has already been made :-( Thanks for the idea though. Hopefully somebody else can benefit from it (or me, next time).

[Bandit]

I paid with a VISA debit card and the payment has already been made :-( Thanks for the idea though. Hopefully somebody else can benefit from it (or me, next time).

Even if payment has been made, contact them for any options. Most things purchased via their card services have a warranty of some sort.

http://usa.visa.com/personal/cards/benefits/bft_purchase_security.html

[troymius]

Bandit, actually I used my Visa Business card for this purchase and it seems you are right...

http://usa.visa.com/business/why-pay-with-visa/security-benefits/bft-purchase-security.html

I will try fling a claim. Let's see what happens. Thanks!

Still, if folks have other experience making HP cooperate, please share.

EDIT: I am reading the VISA fineprint. It excludes used and pre-owned items. I think they get me there as this computer was refurbished...

[troymius]

On the bright side, it is a funny story. For example when the comp went to the hospital for the second time somebody from HP called me asking what's wrong with it. Well, it is written on the paper you made me fill in. It does not boot, no BIOS, can't you see? Aha... ok, we will look at it, they said.

Or when you chat with the support folks and they conclude that the machine is indeed dead and needs to be shipped back to HP, they ask me: is there anything else I can do for you today? Well, what else could you possibly do? Sing a happy song for me?

A corporate process is a tough nut to crack. One would think that if the computer has been in the shop 3x and came back to me broken again that it would save time and money to BOTH HP and myself if they just gave me another machine. Let alone the unhappy customer. But no, the process is not capable of such higher level logic.

[3rdalbum]

In Australia, if the product you've been sold has a major defect you were not made aware of, then you are legally entitled to your choice of repair, exchange, or refund.

Unfortunately I don't know laws outside Australia, but there may be a similar provision in the consumer laws of your country. If so, then the correct way to use them is to phone HP and let them know that you want a replacement computer, and if you don't get offered it within x* days you will contact the ombudsman or fair trading office.

* the number of days of non-remedy before you can contact the ombudsman or fair trading office should be available on that office's website

If they still have not offered a refund or exchange, then put your threat immediately in writing and send it to them. If they still don't offer the refund or exchange, make good on your threat and contact the ombudsman's office.

[troymius]

Wow. We have a lot to learn from Australia.

I think the last living ombudsman here was taken to hospital mumbling something about HP customers leaving him alone.

[wirepuller134]

We had a similar story to this in 2000 with HP. My wife purchased a desktop and it went back and fourth with them for about 3 months. It would boot up and run for about an hour then lockup and on reboot it would have no video. If allowed to cool she could run it for about 4 hours again. We finally went and purchased a motherboard for it ourselves and used it's processor. We figured the money spent on the motherboard was cheaper than the time invested in shipping it back and fourth. We then filled out a customer feedback ticket with all of the information. We were contacted by them and after sending them copies of the receipts, were reimbursed for the purchase price of the system, the price of the mother board and given a 500 dollar coupon to purchase another system in the future. In the end they made it right with us.

[troymius]

We had a similar story to this in 2000 with HP. My wife purchased a desktop and it went back and fourth with them for about 3 months. It would boot up and run for about an hour then lockup and on reboot it would have no video. If allowed to cool she could run it for about 4 hours again. We finally went and purchased a motherboard for it ourselves and used it's processor. We figured the money spent on the motherboard was cheaper than the time invested in shipping it back and fourth. We then filled out a customer feedback ticket with all of the information. We were contacted by them and after sending them copies of the receipts, were reimbursed for the purchase price of the system, the price of the mother board and given a 500 dollar coupon to purchase another system in the future. In the end they made it right with us.

That is a true happy-end. I don't believe such things happen in 2012. I am getting the typical run-around. After I wrote a heart-breaking email to HP support, they replied:

"we are from email technical department hence we are unable to call you back. Hence I would suggest you to call us back # 1-800-474-6836 and ask them to escalate the case."

Are they not one company? Email department does not have phones? Anyway, after I called them and asked for escalation, an HP Case Manager (Steven) called me and told me that "unfortunately" he can only offer me shipping the box back for another repair (repair #4, CSO KCN688 ) or on-site repair. Either way it will take me another 2 hours of my time and another week and half of downtime.

He also mentioned that MAYBE they would eventually give me an extended warranty or maybe even a coupon (but only if I am a good boy, I suppose). Again he said that "unfortunately" those are the 2 only options. I mean HP is such an unfortunate company, I hear unfortunately 3 times every time I hear from them. Poor HP. They must have run out of PCs.

Steven also said that he is at the top of the escalation process (again "unfortunately") so asking for his manager won't help me.

So I opted for another shipment to HP repair shop. Repair #4 (!) I should not have agreed to it but what else can I do. I have to work and take care of my 3 year old and not spend weeks by filing complaints to court etc.

My dad was going to buy an HP computer worth about $1000 but after hearing my story he backed off.

I am really really frustrated. Seriously, what are my chances of winning a lawsuit here?

[MisterGaribaldi]

@OP: If you really want to **** them off, tell them the next time you go to buy a computer, you're going to buy a Mac because Apple's service is so much better than theirs.

The reason I say this is that HP and Apple often compete in customer ratings, so let them sweat it a little bit, y'know?

I'm not sure how it works with refurb equipment, but certain on new equipment 3 is the magic number.

[SemiExpert]

Recently I bought a refurbished computer from HP. It was supposed to be as new. It worked for a couple of days, then died. No boot. Sent it to HP for repair #1. They replaced MB. When it returned to me it worked again for 2 days, then again died. No boot. Sent it back to HP for repair #2. They "re-seated CPU". It came back. It was missing one rubber foot. It looks funny as it leans against my older Dell. It worked for 5 days, then... yes you guessed it, no boot, no BIOS. The fans spin, everything else is dead just like before.

HP tells me that "we are afraid we cannot give you a new system". I am tired of spending hours (~6 hours so far) with HP support and hauling the box from and to Fedex and having no use from it so far.

What are my options? Any suggestions? Dragging them to court? Posting nasty-grams all over web? Just wave my hand and buy something else? Neither is a fun thing to do. Ideas? Past experience?

Thanks!!

(Pavilion P7-1026, AMD Phenom II X4 840T, 6Gb Samsung RAM, 1Tb Hitachi HDD, CSO: JUL013, JYA521, KBG357, KCN688 )

Refurbished typically means that it didn't work for the first buyer, who very wisely returned the unit for a refund or a replacement. Did you purchase the unit directly from HP or a reseller? If it was a direct sale, demand your money back.

[troymius]

Refurbished typically means that it didn't work for the first buyer, who very wisely returned the unit for a refund or a replacement. Did you purchase the unit directly from HP or a reseller? If it was a direct sale, demand your money back.

I have been buying refurbished Dells and Samsung monitors for a about decade and never had issues. Most of them I think are machines used in trainings, conferences and such.

As for the effect on warranty, I don't think it matters. The computer came with a 3 month HP warranty. Warranty is a legal obligation to provide repair or replacement. It does not mean 3 months of fedexing, apologizing and not being able to fix the problem. A judge would ask whether 2.5 months is a long enough time to say that HP's legal obligation was not fulfilled. Even if the product in question was a diesel-electric locomotive 2.5 months would be too long.

[Bandit]

If all else fails, drag them into Small Claims Court. They will not bother showing up and the court will award you the case and the court will make HP pay for your system and court expenses. :lolflag:
Just make sure you have all your documentation.

[Dngrsone]

Call HP and tell them you want to escalate your trouble call.

Calmly tell the new new handler that you have returned your machine twice already in as many months, and you want your machine to work.

Tell them that every day you have to wait for your machine is another day of lost productivity/money. Tell them that you should not have to return your machine three times to get a working HP laptop.

Third time is a charm. If you have another failure, then you call the same handler and tell them that three times mean a lemon, in your (and just about anyone else's) book.

Last time I did this, I got a brand new HP laptop with better specifications than the original.

[3rdalbum]

@OP: If you really want to **** them off, tell them the next time you go to buy a computer, you're going to buy a Mac because Apple's service is so much better than theirs.

Trust me, it won't **** them off. They'll just think "What a twerp" and then think "Please DO buy a Mac next time". They won't go out of their way to help you if they think you're a twerp.

Most companies should say "Right, this is your third problem under warranty, let's just cut our losses and replace the lemon". Not sure why HP isn't doing this, but perhaps you need to ring HP and ask to speak to someone in charge of the department.

[Bandit]

All else fails, call these guys and forget about it!!
They have ways of making people cooperate.. hehe
http://www.mrvons-universe.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Mob_Mafia_001.jpg

[stalkingwolf]

perhaps a call or letter to customer service as well as tech support is in order.

[roffisserver]

HP is a difficult company to work with. Thats why I build my own computers!

[kurt18947]

perhaps a call or letter to customer service as well as tech support is in order.

Or a snail mail letter to the Chairman/CEO's office. A call from the Head mutha's office can sometimes light a fire.

[troymius]

:) Thanks guys.

Today a friend told me that he bought an HP computer in March (a new one, not refurb) and is sending it back for a second repair. We had a good laugh when we found out that we are both going through the same ordeal with HP.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think that HP is some evil company trying to make money by being unfair. I just think that they have a poor system/procedures in place. If someone needs 4 repairs/ CSOs in 2 months, there should be a red alert going off somewhere saying "this case is 3 standard deviations above normal, extra care is needed here".

Today everything seems fine from their accounting point of view, their customer support dept is meeting its ever-reducing budget by outsourcing and turning customers away by making them tired of runarounds and lip service. But in the long run, it may lead to a disaster.

It does not make me happy at all actually. It means layoffs, a lot of unhappy people, families in trouble. I would really like to see HP prosper instead.

I will stop here for now. In a few weeks I will report how this saga ended.

):P

[Bandit]

Just a stab at HPs product quality, seems that one of my friends that owns his on PC shop has noticed a huge trend in HP laptop quality going down hill. He stated that they are running the laptop system boards through the soldering oven to fast to keep up with production. But at the same time causing warpage. Which over time causes the semi conductors to pull loose.
Plus I have been trough 3 HP Printers in the past 2 years. So they are not nearly as good as they also used to be. The Desktops though IMHO have never been worth a crap.

[MisterGaribaldi]

How to make HP cooperate...

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/e/e2/Vader_Bast.jpg

"We're receiving reports, my lord, that HP is screwing around again."
"Really? With whom this time?"
"It's troymius, m'lord."


http://reinidays.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/tarkin-vader.jpg

"Why are you delaying repairs to troymius' busted-a*s computer?"


http://www.austinbooks.com/events_images/motti.jpg

"Delaying? We're not delaying. We're refusing."


http://static.arstechnica.com/starwars/star_wars_tarkin_vader.jpg

"Refusing? Why in blazes would you do that?"


http://www.austinbooks.com/events_images/motti.jpg

"Well, it's like this. troymius seems to think he's entitled to a replacement after saving money by going refurbished instead of new."


http://reinidays.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/tarkin-vader.jpg

"I see. You are making Tarkin here and me awfully cross with you."


http://www.austinbooks.com/events_images/motti.jpg

"Don't be cross. I'm trying to save the Empire credits on some punk who wants to shaft us. I hear he even made a rude gesture as he passed by the Imperial Palace on Courscant yesterday."


http://static.arstechnica.com/starwars/star_wars_tarkin_vader.jpg

"Now really! What kind of a cacameme excuse is that?"

[MisterGaribaldi]

http://img.over-blog.com/500x294/1/32/60/44/Starwars/Engins/Etoile-Noire/Amiral-Motti.jpg

"Oh puh-leeze. You don't really think I'm going to sit here and listen to this..."


http://blogs.evtrib.com/nerdvana/files/2008/10/lackoffaith.jpg

"Actually, yes I do."


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7f/Motti.jpg

*gaak!*


http://blogs.evtrib.com/nerdvana/files/2008/10/lackoffaith.jpg

"Now, fix the d**n computer already."


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7f/Motti.jpg

"Aaack... yoooou..."


http://blogs.evtrib.com/nerdvana/files/2008/10/lackoffaith.jpg

"Excuse me, I didn't quite hear that."


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7f/Motti.jpg

"Iiii saaaaiid... asssss... you wiiiiiish."


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1FUCyb2Xb3g/Sw1FUWtQlcI/AAAAAAAAAKY/ieDBCYjo5uY/s1600/9617_183231260707_508225707_4302721_7085963_n.jpg

"Pssst... hey buddy... they said they are going to fix it for you."

[troymius]

:) ... Garibaldi! Just a small correction: I am not asking for a new system. If they give me just a functioning computer of similar specs (functioning longer than 3 days) I would be ecstatic.

OK, I said you would hear from me when the saga is over. But I cannot resist... Because during the second repair my computer lost one rubber foot in the HP shop, I requested a new foot (CSO KBG357). So they Fedexed me 1 rubber foot. It is about the size of maybe 4 nickels stacked up. The Fedex box could hold like a million of them but HP sent exactly one. Unfortunately, it is a wrong one. It is about 2-3mm thinner than the original (remaining) foot therefore the tower is leaning to one side. It is a small problem compared to the fact that the computer does not boot...

Anyway I just requested a pair of feet of the same thickness because who knows, maybe they would send me third foot of yet another size.

So I have filed 6 service requests in 2 months. With the latest two (each new foot is a separate CSO for some reason) the CSO list is:
JUL013 ... no boot
JYA521 ... no boot
KBG357 ... missing foot after previous repair
KCN688 ... no boot
KCW847 ... and ...
KCW849 ... wrong foot, sending 2 new.

I am still waiting for the box relative to KCN688.

Just trying to keep track... phew!

[Dngrsone]

So, is the machine working right now?

[troymius]

So, is the machine working right now?

No, it is not booting. Just like before the fans spin but no bios, no boot, no nothing. Re-seating the cpu helps for about 3 days then again no boot. It is heading back to HP as soon as they send me the prepaid fedex box. That makes it 8 fedex shipments so far. How is HP saving money by doing this is a mystery.

[Bandit]

No, it is not booting. Just like before the fans spin but no bios, no boot, no nothing. Re-seating the cpu helps for about 3 days then again no boot. It is heading back to HP as soon as they send me the prepaid fedex box. That makes it 8 fedex shipments so far. How is HP saving money by doing this is a mystery.

Sounds like the CPU has been toasted. Possible due to lack of proper thermal paste or heat-sink seating. I'd stay on them. Good luck to ya.

[Dngrsone]

No, it is not booting. Just like before the fans spin but no bios, no boot, no nothing. Re-seating the cpu helps for about 3 days then again no boot. It is heading back to HP as soon as they send me the prepaid fedex box. That makes it 8 fedex shipments so far. How is HP saving money by doing this is a mystery.

Well, then, like I said, escalate the trouble call and then invoke the lemon definition.

Be upset, and losing money, but stay polite and professional. If your new handler won't give you a replacement, then ask to speak to that one's manager.

[troymius]

Well, then, like I said, escalate the trouble call and then invoke the lemon definition.

Be upset, and losing money, but stay polite and professional. If your new handler won't give you a replacement, then ask to speak to that one's manager.

Hi Dngrstone... The HP case manager is like teflon. He said it cannot go any higher. He must be the CEO. I think I will buy another comp and when HP (one day perhaps) fixes this one I will get extended warranty for it and sell it on Ebay. I will feel less guilty by selling it with extra warranty. I just need a computer and after 2 months this is still getting nowhere. I do not believe they can fix it any more and after 3+ trips to HP shop and so many people digging into it who knows what else is screwed up.

It has become just a matter of principle. I have an old backup computer which I am using now and I can probably afford buying one more. But what if I was a student? Or an elderly person? Or say a person with speech handicap who cannot argue with them very well? It should never happen that a brand name computer under factory warranty is out of service for 2 months with the manufacturer basically making fun of you by saying "we don't have any computers to give you". That I do not consider a warranty.

[Dngrsone]

That is not good. If it weren't for the fact that a lawyer costs much more than a replacement machine, I'd say sue.

Then again... does your area have one of those 'on your side' television news stations? Nothing gets a company to turn around like the threat of massive negative publicity such as a news story about them stepping on the little people.

[troymius]

Well I guess I owe you guys the happy-end.

During the repair #3 HP replaced both CPU and motherboard. After 2 months I finally had a functioning computer. Alas, meantime I bought another PC from another OEM, also refurbished but working fine.

HP called me afterwards asking if I received the computer as if they could not see it from Fedex package tracking. I asked the guy if I could get a free extended warranty since I lost 3 months of use... and of course the answer was no.

The most hilarious thing was that when I asked them to send me 2 rubber feet for the computer (because the last 2 repairs both resulted in a lost foot) they sent me both feet in the same time, each foot in a separate large Fedex box. The foot is a rubber sticker about a size of a nickel.

The cost of one Fedex shipment they could save by sending both feet in one package is about the cost of the extended warranty I asked for.

I really hope that my HP experience is a real outlier, ten standard deviations away from average. I wish HP all the best, there is a lot of folks (employees, suppliers...) who depend on its well-being.