Canonical uses Apple and Adobe

[Rodney9]

Just heard on Linux Outlaws podcast that Canonical use Apple Macs and Adobe Photo Shop in their design department.

Rodney

[dpny]

As Apple pretty much owns that industry, it's not surprising. I imagine their accounting software runs on Windows, as well.

[Paqman]

I wouldn't be surprised, a lot of design pros prefer Macs. I just listened to an interesting interview on the Ubuntu UK Podcast with one of the main Linux colour management guys (works for Red Hat) and he acknowledged that the whole colour management and calibration situation is a lot simpler and better on Apple hardware.

If that's the case then people should feel free to use whatever tools are the best for their job, and slavish obedience to open source orthodoxy can take a running jump.

[QIII]

Use what works.

[hughr2005]

Design pros, and generally creative professionals like using Macs. They're the industry standard. I'm a music producer/audio engineer, and although things like Ardour and Audacity are ok, they don't yet come up to the standard of Logic Studio running on a Mac. Ubuntu works well for me for software development, office, browsing, and consuming media, but I think Mac have really been the industry standard for creativity, and until Open Source software becomes a serious contender I'll be straight on to Ubuntu.

[keithpeter]

...They're the industry standard[1]. ...until Open Source software becomes a serious contender[2] ....

Hello hughr2005 and all

I'm not singling hughr2005 out at all. I have seen similar ones in many posts.

[2] can't happen until [1] is challenged sufficiently to generate feedback for developers. It's that chicken and egg thing (http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000054.html) again.

PS: do creative people really want to be 'industry standard'?

[alexfish]

I wouldn't be surprised, a lot of design pros prefer Macs. I just listened to an interesting interview on the Ubuntu UK Podcast with one of the main Linux colour management guys (works for Red Hat) and he acknowledged that the whole colour management and calibration situation is a lot simpler and better on Apple hardware.

If that's the case then people should feel free to use whatever tools are the best for their job, and slavish obedience to open source orthodoxy can take a running jump.

could not put it better , except for

+1

[Dragonbite]

They should eat their own dog food.

[AllenGG]

Half a million Mac computers 'infected with malware' BBC news

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17623422

oops !
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/over-600000-macs-infected-with-flashback-trojan/11345

[hughr2005]

But like, loads of things get infected by malware, even Ubuntu can get infected by malware, so what's the problem with a little bit of malware on a Mac? It's about how much each os is targeted, rather than how susceptible to malware they are.

[Buovjaga]

The question might arise, why doesn't Canonical hire people to boost GIMP development. The reason is GIMP does not currently allow paid development. One person to resist paid development is the usability dude Peter Sikking, who left another project where the devs were paid while the UI guys were expected to work for free. I say: let Peter and his team be the first to get paid! Workflow and UI is extremely important and might be one of the reasons Canonical chooses Photoshop over OS alternatives. Krita might become a "Photoshop replacement" (extended with the right plugins) faster than GIMP, though.

My post today (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11819207&postcount=26) to the Why Linux is not (yet) ready for the desktop -thread was followed by a lockdown of the thread. However, the issues are still relevant.

Lack of backwards compatibility and fragmentation is something that is slow to fix, but lack of specific software functionality is possible to address in a much more reasonable time frame.

"Use what works" is true, but on the other hand, Indie creatives and freelancers want to use Linux. It takes a "man with a plan" -person like Jason DeRose of Novacut (http://blog.novacut.com/) to make the push for indie usability. Relevant to the OP in an amusingly inverted way, Mac video editing people are waiting anxiously for a Novacut Mac port, because they hate the new Final Cut!

Also, read everything Alexandre Prokoudine (http://prokoudine.info/blog/) says about GIMP and everything else and support Libre Graphics World (http://libregraphicsworld.org/). The guy already deserves a life time achievement award.

[Paqman]

They should eat their own dog food.

I'm sure you'll find Linux machines are the overwhelming majority at Canonical. I visited their offices in London once and don't remember seeing anything except Ubuntu machines.

I suspect they allow individuals to specify what environment they want to work in. Designers aren't necessarily going to come from an open source background and may have been using Macs their whole career. Should Canonical only hire those who're willing to be forced to use Linux, even if that means they cut themselves off from most of the talent? Sounds a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The other obvious explanation is that some of this work may be done by freelancers or agencies, and Canonical has no way of dictating what hardware or software they use.

[BrokenKingpin]

I agree they should use the best tools for the job, but it is still quite disappointing to hear this.

[keithpeter]

Should Canonical only hire those who're willing to be forced to use Linux, even if that means they cut themselves off from most of the talent?

Tip of the hat to Canonical for hiring designers at all, many companies outsource to agencies now.

@Buovjaga: thanks for those links

[Roasted]

I agree they should use the best tools for the job, but it is still quite disappointing to hear this.

Over the years, I've slowly migrated away from having the need to dual boot. In the past I used to rely on more Windows software, despite the fact I try to be pretty straight edged and use Linux-based operating systems and software if at all possible. As time passed, I now find myself never in Windows any longer.

I can only assume Canonical is facing the same thing I did years ago, except on a higher degree considering they're obviously doing more in depth work than I ever did. In time, I'm sure it'll change. I doubt they're excited to use Apple or Adobe gear, but if it does the job, sometimes it's easier when in a time crunch to just use what's familiar. I can only imagine somebody is already working on making those things change.

[dpny]

I can only imagine somebody is already working on making those things change.

Not unless Adobe ports CS to Linux.

[Roasted]

Not unless Adobe ports CS to Linux.

I meant more along the lines of ramping up Gimp/Krita support to replace the need for Photoshop. For my uses, Gimp is already there 10 times over. But that's simply my mileage which cannot speak for other companies, Canonical, etc.

[dpny]

I meant more along the lines of ramping up Gimp/Krita support to replace the need for Photoshop. For my uses, Gimp is already there 10 times over. But that's simply my mileage which cannot speak for other companies, Canonical, etc.

It's not just having GIMP as a Photoshop replacement, which it is far from. It's that the entire design/print/prepress industry is built around a set of file and format standards. In order to replace the CS apps, you would need a set of apps which can flawlessly import and export Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign files, as well as integrate with all of the specialized hardware and software required in the related workflows.

That's a tall order.

[SeijiSensei]

One of the biggest obstacles to the growth of GIMP usage is the widespread piracy of Photoshop. Adobe doesn't really care about individuals pirating it, especially young wannabe graphic designers. Adobe makes its money selling its tools to professional design shops and can't be too unhappy to see each new generation of designers wedded to Photoshop and company.

As far as I know, GIMP also doesn't support Pantone® colors, which makes it pretty much unusable for professional print work.

[dpny]

One of the biggest obstacles to the growth of GIMP usage is the widespread piracy of Photoshop. Adobe doesn't really care about individuals pirating it, especially young wannabe graphic designers. Adobe makes its money selling its tools to professional design shops and can't be too unhappy to see each new generation of designers wedded to Photoshop and company.

As I said above, it's more than making GIMP better. It's InDesign, Illustrator, color calibration, RIPS, proofers and more.

[CharlesA]

Use what works.

This x 9000.


Half a million Mac computers 'infected with malware' BBC news

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17623422

oops !
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/over-600000-macs-infected-with-flashback-trojan/11345

Everything can get malware, no matter the OS. That particular Trojan is based off a flaw in Java, and what OSes can Java run on?


One of the biggest obstacles to the growth of GIMP usage is the widespread piracy of Photoshop. Adobe doesn't really care about individuals pirating it, especially young wannabe graphic designers. Adobe makes its money selling its tools to professional design shops and can't be too unhappy to see each new generation of designers wedded to Photoshop and company.

As far as I know, GIMP also doesn't support Pantone® colors, which makes it pretty much unusable for professional print work.

What he said too. I learned to use PS a long time ago and a big part of the whole graphic design thing is the user of Pantone colors - those that look exactly the same on the screen as they do in print. I suppose that wouldn't matter to someone doing something like web design, but it still is a valid issue.

[Bandit]

Design pros, and generally creative professionals like using Macs. They're the industry standard. I'm a music producer/audio engineer, and although things like Ardour and Audacity are ok, they don't yet come up to the standard of Logic Studio running on a Mac. Ubuntu works well for me for software development, office, browsing, and consuming media, but I think Mac have really been the industry standard for creativity, and until Open Source software becomes a serious contender I'll be straight on to Ubuntu.

This ^^^




..

PS: do creative people really want to be 'industry standard'?

Do they? Its not a question of if they really want it personally. Its a question of if they want it professionally. If no one keeps to standards, then we would end up with 50 diferent types of media players, 50 types of flash plugins for different standards of flash, and so on..

Mac hardware is carefully chosen and tested through strict test to ensure color consistency and quality. Try buying a TV or PC Monitor and see how hard it is to get the exact color and sound from each one.. See what I am saying.. :-)

[SemiExpert]

I really don't see any way to calibrate the color in 12.04. The Color menu is there under System Settings, but the Calibrate option isn't active. Again, it's still a beta, but it is an issue.

[aysiu]

My wife is a professional graphic designer (professional meaning she earned a degree in it and actually makes a full-time living doing it--she also happens to be quite good at it). She would never accept a job that said "Well, we like your work, but if you work for us, you'll have to use only Ubuntu Linux and GIMP, Inkscape, and Scribus." Never. And I don't think I've met any professional graphic designers who would. Even if (and this is a big if) the FOSS alternatives to CS5 were equivalent in terms of functionality, there's a huge cultural barrier there in terms of what graphic designers are used to and what their whole workflow is built around.

The other thing is that there's a student at my school who is a super-bright kid. He's a programmer. He's a major proponent of open source. He loves Linux. He loves pretty much anything open source. I asked him if GIMP would do a substitute for Photoshop... I didn't even say what for... and he immediately said it would not work.

Personally, I dig GIMP on Windows and Ubuntu, and I like Seashore on the Mac. But I don't do professional design work.

Just my two cents.

[kaldor]

The Ubuntu font was also created on Microsoft Visual Truetype and a proprietary program called "FontLab Studio".

It may have been mentioned before, but I haven't read the thread. Sorry if so :)

[Bandit]

My wife is a professional graphic designer (professional meaning she earned a degree in it and ..............

I agree completely when it comes to photography and image manipulation in those areas. But when putting together graphics from scratch for like web use and advertising, GIMP and Inkscape are solid options. I am pro GIMP, but like I mentioned if I have to edit or manipulate a photo then PS is my preferred choose and in many cases only real option unless you just like to screw around all day lying to yourself instead of getting work done.

[Roasted]

It's not just having GIMP as a Photoshop replacement, which it is far from. It's that the entire design/print/prepress industry is built around a set of file and format standards. In order to replace the CS apps, you would need a set of apps which can flawlessly import and export Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign files, as well as integrate with all of the specialized hardware and software required in the related workflows.

That's a tall order.

I suppose so. I look at PS like I look at Windows. Yes, it has the majority of the market, but in my years of experience (for me at least, and several enterprise work environments I've been in) we just don't *need* Photoshop, so Gimp has served as an excellent alternative - just as Ubuntu has.

But, as always, YMMV.

[dpny]

I suppose so. I look at PS like I look at Windows. Yes, it has the majority of the market, but in my years of experience (for me at least, and several enterprise work environments I've been in) we just don't *need* Photoshop, so Gimp has served as an excellent alternative - just as Ubuntu has.

Photoshop is overkill for a lot of things. But for professional retouching and production, nothing comes close.

[forrestcupp]

I don't have a problem with professional commercial artists needing to use Photoshop. And if they have that need, they're either going to need Windows or Macs.

I also don't have a problem with Canonical using Macs, especially since they have Mac versions of Ubuntu. How in the world are they going to develop Mac versions of their OS if they don't have any Macs?

[sandyd]

Interestingly, a lot of the companies (like the one I work for), already have a lot of the software avaliable on Linux. Most of them are, in fact, quite advanced. If youve worked at companies like Disney or Dreamworks, you would know what I was talking about.

The software itself, of course, its propriety (and a secret, so I can't talk about it), but it already allows for much of the production/rendering process to be done on Linux.

However, that only consists of a small population. Those propriety solutions are mostly in-house built, and quite expensive. As a result, anything smaller than large companies such as those mentioned above will use software like AVID, Sony Vegas, .etc .etc.

Honestly, it wouldn't take much to take parts of the propriety solutions that they had developed, and turn it into a program that consumers could use. The problem is that there is not much interest in using video editors/music editors on linux.

There are already competing solutions which run on mac and windows who already have a foot in the door. It is not worth the expenditure for the company to spend gazillions of dollars on a product that would be competing against other products that have already developed into a known brand and established a name for itself. The money they would earn in the process, even if they manage to sell their product is pennies compared to what they earn from the super-big corperations.

[lukeiamyourfather]

Interestingly, a lot of the companies (like the one I work for), already have a lot of the software avaliable on Linux. Most of them are, in fact, quite advanced. If youve worked at companies like Disney or Dreamworks, you would know what I was talking about.


It doesn't really matter because that's not comparing apples to apples. Designers for the most part (across many industries) use the Adobe Creative Suite. If you plop a designer down in front of a Linux workstation with Maya, Houdini, Nuke and other animation or visual effects packages and they'll give you a blank stare. It would take months or years to get them up to speed (if ever!). I agree with what has been said already about using what works.

[Primefalcon]

Who knows... probally but really if you trust anything you hear from Linux outlaws your an idiot....

I stopped listening to them after getting frustrated with Fab especially not checking his facts before he starts swearing his head off.....

[MisterGaribaldi]

Just heard on Linux Outlaws podcast that Canonical use Apple Macs and Adobe Photo Shop in their design department.

and


As Apple pretty much owns that industry, it's not surprising. I imagine their accounting software runs on Windows, as well.

I'm sorry, gentlemen, but I don't recall anyone dying and making Canonical and/or anyone else God, where I have to pray to them for permission to use what tools that work for me.

This does point out some obvious deficiencies in software availability in Linux, though. Just sayin'...



I wouldn't be surprised, a lot of design pros prefer Macs. I just listened to an interesting interview on the Ubuntu UK Podcast with one of the main Linux colour management guys (works for Red Hat) and he acknowledged that the whole colour management and calibration situation is a lot simpler and better on Apple hardware.

If that's the case then people should feel free to use whatever tools are the best for their job, and slavish obedience to open source orthodoxy can take a running jump.

What you said. +1

[forrestcupp]

Honestly, it wouldn't take much to take parts of the propriety solutions that they had developed, and turn it into a program that consumers could use. The problem is that there is not much interest in using video editors/music editors on linux.

There's interest, just not commercial interest.

[wolfen69]

This does point out some obvious deficiencies in software availability in Linux, though. Just sayin'...

It depends who you talk to. Major motion picture companies use linux for their 3D rendering, the US government uses linux for their most sensitive projects, wall street and other stock markets use linux as their base, my company and many other companies use linux also, should I go on? Is it deficient for these entities I mentioned? No. It depends who you talk to, and what their needs are. For the things I mentioned, windows or mac would probably be deficient, given their needs.

There's interest, just not commercial interest.
True to a point, but at the absolute pinnacle of world class software, linux is #1. That's because when a company/government needs a rock solid stable base to build upon, linux is unbeatable as a foundation. There is nothing inherently flawed about linux that makes it unsuitable for the masses. It is about marketing and money, nothing more.

[SeijiSensei]

It depends who you talk to. Major motion picture companies use linux for their 3D rendering, ...


There is nothing inherently flawed about linux that makes it unsuitable for the masses. It is about marketing and money, nothing more.

Those large organizations you mention have the resources to hire Linux-savvy staff to manage their systems and fix problems. Where are the equivalent resources for "the masses" to use? Geek Squad? Staples?

I'm always amused by how little attention Linux advocates pay to those important and costly aspects of computing called training and support. Technical superiority, even if demonstrable, matters little when you can't figure out how to connect a printer or your Internet provider cannot help you because you're not running Windows or OS X.

[dpny]

True to a point, but at the absolute pinnacle of world class software, linux is #1. That's because when a company/government needs a rock solid stable base to build upon, linux is unbeatable as a foundation.

Depends on what you mean by "world class software." Pixar, for instance, uses Linux in its renderfarm. However, all of their desktops--the machines on which those movies are designed and created--run OS X. The military uses Linux clusters for heavy number crunching, but all of the front-end stuff, the stuff which really runs the day-to-day life of the military, is almost all Windows. And on and on. It isn't a choice between "world class software" and other software which is lacking. It's a choice of the right tool for the job, and sometimes the right tool is a Dell running Windows and Microsoft Office.


There is nothing inherently flawed about linux that makes it unsuitable for the masses. It is about marketing and money, nothing more.

Sure there are. If your Linux machine breaks, where's the 800 number for support? Where's the Genius Bar? Where are Office and Photoshop and Turbotax? The various Linux distros are fantastic, and they're the absolutely right tool for some jobs. But Linux isn't the right tool for every job, just as OS X and Windows aren't.

[forrestcupp]

True to a point, but at the absolute pinnacle of world class software, linux is #1. That's because when a company/government needs a rock solid stable base to build upon, linux is unbeatable as a foundation. There is nothing inherently flawed about linux that makes it unsuitable for the masses. It is about marketing and money, nothing more.

Right, but sandyd was talking specifically about video production/rendering software. I was talking about the situation right now, not what it would be like if the masses used Linux. The situation right now is that there would be interest in high quality video production/rendering software, but not commercial interest. At least not enough to warrant the effort it would take them to port it over and support it.

[Nimless]

Well, Canonical is a company "selling" a product or at least trying to make money around it. As far as I know it's not a foundation...

This just proves that they are not into promoting free software, just "selling" a free software product, otherwise they would be totally incoherent.

[forrestcupp]

Well, Canonical is a company "selling" a product or at least trying to make money around it. As far as I know it's not a foundation...

This just proves that they are not into promoting free software, just "selling" a free software product, otherwise they would be totally incoherent.

Not quite. Canonical is more than just Ubuntu. The Ubuntu Project is a FOSS project, and Canonical is trying to make their money in other ways, like Ubuntu One, vendor deals, paid support, and it also appears they want to get into the mobile market.

Mark Shuttleworth actually did set up something called the Ubuntu Foundation that he personally funded to ensure long term maintenance of the Ubuntu Project, even if Canonical is never profitable. And for the record, they still aren't close to achieving profitability, so it's not like they have evil, greedy intents.

I still remember early on hearing Shuttleworth correct another Canonical employee over using the term Free Software instead of Open Source. He's all about it. But why not use what you love to try to make money?

[CharlesA]

This just proves that they are not into promoting free software, just "selling" a free software product, otherwise they would be totally incoherent.

Right tool for the right job and all that...

[Nimless]

Right tool for the right job and all that...

If software would be as simple as a sledge hammer I would agree, but it's not.

[fatality_uk]

just heard on linux outlaws podcast that canonical use apple macs and adobe photo shop in their design department.

Rodney

burn the heretics!!

[rmil]

As professional designer I know working in all Adobe programs and I found ScribusNG very professional and relatively easy to use in replacement for Indesign/Illustrator. I do not have any problems with press at all because PDFs made by Scribus are very good.

[KiwiNZ]

So what??????

I drive an Audi, I use Apple products, Microsoft products, IBM,Sony, Ubuntu, Samsung products. My wife drives a BMW uses Windows, IBM, Blackberry........ Products. In other words we use what best fits our needs and we like, same for Canonical, simple really.

[MisterGaribaldi]

As someone who has worked in actual production environments (plural) using QuarkXPress, InDesign, Illustrator, and Photoshop (along with other apps over the years) I can't imagine -- not even for one second -- trying to seriously use Scribus in that role.

It's fine for knocking out some relatively simple job, or something where time and overall capabilities aren't a big deal, but if you tried to put Scribus into an actual production environment, you would have to be out of your mind.

And, if someone tried, I'd fire the s*********h in an instant and replace them with someone who knew what they were actually doing.

[roelforg]

My theory as to why apple is a big player in graphic design:
It's not the software, it's the hardware!
Think about it,
if you strip the apple logo's, osx, huge eula/warranty licence...basically just the plain hw as just another pc in the pond,
even the most basic mac has some pretty good hardware.
That together with a shiny case. (everybody loves shiny!)
and appel's brand-name makes for a popular product.
I hate macs because apple made them,
because apple charges money for everything, your warranty is void practically when taken out of the box (once read that if someone smokes in the same room as the mac on a regular basis, you warranty is toast),
Mac OSX is designed to be as noob-friendly as possible (yet i only get headaches because a lot of stuff is unlogical (a friend once talked me into checking what's wrong with his mac, never again!)), apple also makes sure not to reveal any inner workings. That and my hate against vendor-lockin.

If a mac works for you, great for you!

I just build my own pc and no apple of m$ can tell me how i can or cannot use it.

[Bandit]

So what??????

I drive an Audi, I use Apple products, Microsoft products, IBM,Sony, Ubuntu, Samsung products. My wife drives a BMW uses Windows, IBM, Blackberry........ Products. In other words we use what best fits our needs and we like, same for Canonical, simple really.

Audi and BMW, dang I am moving to NZ..

I am currently looking for something newER then my 13 year old Pontiac GrandAm.. Sadly cant afford anything nearly as nice as a BMW here in the stats.. lol

[dpny]

My theory as to why apple is a big player in graphic design:
It's not the software, it's the hardware!

It's not the hardware. It's entire business built around hardware and software, most of which is expressly designed for OS X. As I've said above, the software is only a part of it. It's also all the peripheral devices, from color calibrators to RIPs to proofers, etc., and the workflows designed with all that in mind.

An example which wouldn't occur to someone outside the industry: Every piece of art we released has to be tagged with metadata which holds things like the image name, keywords for searching by content management systems, etc. Most importantly, the metadata holds the legal information: who took the picture, who holds the copyright, the names of any models, and usage restrictions. This is important info: people get sued when it's ignored. Adobe Bridge is a great tool for working with metadata, and Photoshop and Illustrator can be used as well. In order to replace Macs, you will need software which can enter and read metadata. The GIMPs metadata support is sketchy, and I don't know of any industrial-scale Linux content management systems which can handle terabytes of image data and its associated metadata.

So, as I've been saying, it's not just a matter of making the GIMP support DCS files (look 'em up). That's only about 5% of the necessary work.

[sandyd]

Right, but sandyd was talking specifically about video production/rendering software. I was talking about the situation right now, not what it would be like if the masses used Linux. The situation right now is that there would be interest in high quality video production/rendering software, but not commercial interest. At least not enough to warrant the effort it would take them to port it over and support it.
Right now, it isn't because of commercial interest. In fact, it doesn't have anything to do with interest. Currently, AVID DS costs ~$10K, depending on where you get it. That thing runs on windows. The thing is, most of the market is already taken up by software like this. At 10K, you would be crazy stupid to change over to a new app that


Untested (i.e. hasn't been here for years)
Unsupported (All these people aren't trained for it!, but software like AVID.

Now that ive got that out of the way....

As long as there is no large benefit to switch to Linux that will actually be worth the reeducation, infrastructure changes, and training, apps like PhotoShop won't be seen in linux, and people will just continue using them on Windows/Mac. Most apps that people are begging for on Linux - Those are the apps where companies make the most off companies and businesses. To them, consumers are little bucks, and represent a few percent of their daily income. I doubt that they bat an eye at any of the consumers who want Linux Support, and would do completely fine even if they stopped selling to normal consumers, and only to businesses.

As a result, its one of the reasons why Mac OS is so entrenched in the graphics/media sector. Its more of a marketing/what people associate with thing. You associate Macs with graphics/media design, and that is what you are going to get when you need a computer for graphics/media design. That could be partially because they took the market first, but w/e.


Lets take an example
Sure, people will buy Logic Pro if it landed in Windows, but those Companies that already have their $3000 Mac Pros, and aren't going to hey! they got a copy for windows now! lets dump mac and go get some new machines!.

Your average university (who actually offers these courses) is still going to be stocking your Mac Pros in the labs, and probably isn't going to see any advantage of running Logic in Mac, over Logic in Windows, as Logic in Mac is already tested.

In the end, Logic for Windows would not be purchased by either Companies or Universities.

Since Companies are one of its biggest sources of income, Logic for Windows would be binned.

--------------
As a result, Linux users would get Photoshop if it ever landed in Linux.

But companies are already using Windows and Mac, and they are not going to dump all their expensive gear at the sake of using Photoshop on Linux.

Adobe sees that their income in Photoshop for Linux sucks, and is probably negative, and scraps the project.

[smellyman]

I love listening to Linux Outlaws, but Fab's hatred of Canonical and love for all things Google can be annoying.

Luckily Dan is there to keep a level head.

[lancest]

Specialist vs general purpose

General purpose is great for alot of people.

[rg4w]

...linux is unbeatable as a foundation. There is nothing inherently flawed about linux that makes it unsuitable for the masses. It is about marketing and money, nothing more.
Well, one thing more: apps.

Gimp is great and fits my modest needs very well, but after reading posts here for so many years from serious graphic artists who prefer Photoshop I have to say there seem to be some good reasons for that preference.

Other app categories are even less well served for the Linux market. Take GUI web design, for example: Kompozer is a great tool, but the last release was nearly two years ago and the main dev notes on his blog that it's been hard for him to devote time to it given the relatively low level of contributions coming in to support enhancements. Blue Griffin is promising in many ways, but doesn't include a site manager so it's nearly useless for serious workflows (a commercial add-on seems to address that, but it costs money to get it just to evaluate whether it'll cover your needs, so I haven't done that and more than a few reviewers are apparently in the same boat).

There are many other categories as well. LibreOffice is world-class IMO, and Scribus is a great tool as well, Blender is arguably the best in the biz, and there are more which can be used to do serious work on Linux. But for every category well served by Linux apps there are a dozen others for which current apps available are either missing critical features, suffer from usability issues, or are completely absent.

This is sort of a chickens-and-eggs situation: if the Linux audience were large enough more app developers would jump on board, but it's unlikely to grow big enough for that until there are more apps to satisfy users' needs.

Case in point: apparently not even Canonical can do what they need to do on the platform they produce.

Sure, there's nothing wrong with Canonical using Macs, but note that pro graphics works isn't limited to that platform; it can be done on Windows as well. It's only Linux that lacks the apps to fully satisfy that workflow.

If Canonical can't switch to Ubuntu, how do they expect other companies to do it?

This may be one area where Canonical can take a cue from Apple: When the Mac platform started out, Apple understood that it would take some time to get third-party developers on board, so they made may of the key apps themselves: MacPaint, MacDraw, MacWrite, even FileMaker is an Apple subsidiary.

Far be it from me to tell Mark Shuttleworth how to spend his money, but if I were evangelizing an OS I'd kick some cash to key apps that it needs, like Kompozer, GIMP, and a few others, with a heavy emphasis on usability engineering resources.

One that last point we've seen a big step forward from Canonical: in December they posted a job opening for a UI expert whose tasks will include "...creation of a set of Human Interface Guidelines (HIG) for Ubuntu":
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/canonical-job-posting-seeks-designer-for-core-apps-hig/

The idea of Apple-like HIG Police running around telling app devs how to design may annoy some, but truly it's an essential step in building a solid ecosystem of great apps that can truly meet the needs of Ubuntu's growing audience going forward.

Adding to that was MPT's great plenary session at UDS a while back in which he outlined the challenges of growing the Software Center:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT5fUcMUfYg

Since then we've seen the rollout of the Ubuntu Developer site:
http://developer.ubuntu.com/

Thank you MPT!

With moves like this I think we'll see a time not long from now when even Canonical themselves will be able to do everything they need to do using only the OS they produce.

[MisterGaribaldi]

rg4w: I totally agree. And, you know what, if we "annoy" a few developers or have to kick a few butts, so be it. Mark should do it.

[rmil]

As someone who has worked in actual production environments (plural) using QuarkXPress, InDesign, Illustrator, and Photoshop (along with other apps over the years) I can't imagine -- not even for one second -- trying to seriously use Scribus in that role.

It's fine for knocking out some relatively simple job, or something where time and overall capabilities aren't a big deal, but if you tried to put Scribus into an actual production environment, you would have to be out of your mind.

And, if someone tried, I'd fire the s*********h in an instant and replace them with someone who knew what they were actually doing.

I own serious design company so you can not fire me and I have very serious clients And several design awords done on ScribusNG. Everything you do in Illustrator/AdobeIndsign I can do in ScribusNG.

[kabloink]

Just heard on Linux Outlaws podcast that Canonical use Apple Macs and Adobe Photo Shop in their design department.

Rodney

This became widely known back when there was a huge uproar over the window icons being moved to the left side. The popular conspiracy theory was that the icons were moved to the left due to the design team using Apple desktops. More or less making it more like an Apple product.

Who knows.

[neu5eeCh]

If Canonical can't switch to Ubuntu, how do they expect other companies to do it?

'Nuff said.

[KiwiNZ]

'Nuff said.

pity the premise is flawed.

[rg4w]

pity the premise is flawed.
In what way?

[Primefalcon]

I love listening to Linux Outlaws, but Fab's hatred of Canonical and love for all things Google can be annoying.

Luckily Dan is there to keep a level head.
Seriously though, there are a lot better podcasts out there such as going linux, Linux Action Show or a ton of others...

Linux outlaws is just..... wrong..... painfully wrong

[JDShu]

The question might arise, why doesn't Canonical hire people to boost GIMP development. The reason is GIMP does not currently allow paid development.

This is not correct. First Peter Sikking does not represent the GIMP, and at least three people who are majorly involved in the GIMP are willing to dip into GIMP funds to pay people (I was offered money myself, although I decided against it). More importantly, Google pays a few students every summer to work on the GIMP via GSoC. In fact some consider this to be the biggest source of GIMP development.

There is absolutely nothing stopping Canonical from paying a guy or gal to contribute to the GIMP, if they wanted to.

[Rodney9]

I love listening to Linux Outlaws, but Fab's hatred of Canonical and love for all things Google can be annoying.

Luckily Dan is there to keep a level head.

http://sixgun.org/linuxoutlaws/259

Fab will be joining the Canonical Design Team to work on the future desktop of Ubuntu. He will be starting work at the next UDS in May.

Rodney

[Primefalcon]

http://sixgun.org/linuxoutlaws/259

Fab will be joining the Canonical Design Team to work on the future desktop of Ubuntu. He will be starting work at the next UDS in May.

Rodney
any other source for this? otherwise I call BS on the source

[smellyman]

any other source for this? otherwise I call BS on the source


Just read the date.


April 1st

[forrestcupp]

More importantly, Google pays a few students every summer to work on the GIMP via GSoC. In fact some consider this to be the biggest source of GIMP development.

Maybe 2.8 will actually get done this summer then. It looks like it's getting close.

[IWantFroyo]

Heresy!

/jk. As long as they're doing their best to help Ubuntu, I don't care what they use.

[Merk42]

Maybe 2.8 will actually get done this summer then. It looks like it's getting close.I look forward to booting up Ubuntu with the new startup sound to make a picture in GIMP 2.8 to post on the vBulletin 4 Ubuntu Forums.

[forrestcupp]

I look forward to booting up Ubuntu with the new startup sound to make a picture in GIMP 2.8 to post on the vBulletin 4 Ubuntu Forums.

Lol. While playing a game of Duke Nukem Forever ... Oh, wait a minute! ;)

I was just thinking the other day about how Ubuntu has used the same startup sound since Hoary Hedgehog. I wasn't around for Warty, but I bet it was the same for that, too. It always kind of grates me at the end of the startup sound when it sounds like a broken muffler dragging on the road. :)

[JDShu]

Maybe 2.8 will actually get done this summer then. It looks like it's getting close.

GSoC is more to do with new features though. 2.8 is rc1 right now, so anything done during the summer won't go into the GIMP until 2.10 (including the new GEGL work that recently made the news). 2.8 release date is more dependant on testing and bug fixing now.

[sffvba[e0rt]

I look forward to booting up Ubuntu with the new startup sound to make a picture in GIMP 2.8 to post on the vBulletin 4 Ubuntu Forums.

... but only if I can do it clicking on the new default icon set... hmmm...


404

[prokoudine]

I really don't see any way to calibrate the color in 12.04. The Color menu is there under System Settings, but the Calibrate option isn't active. Again, it's still a beta, but it is an issue.

Oh wow. Dude, you are drawing too fast conclusions :) The button is greyed out, because the video drivers don't support XRandR 1.3+, and that means you have an NVidia and older version of the binary drivers. Upgrade to the latest.

OK, I've made a fool out of myself :) If the display is not listed, then it's XRandR thing. If the Calibrate button is inactive, then you simply have no colorimeter attached.

[prokoudine]

Far be it from me to tell Mark Shuttleworth how to spend his money, but if I were evangelizing an OS I'd kick some cash to key apps that it needs, like Kompozer, GIMP, and a few others, with a heavy emphasis on usability engineering resources.

http://dneary.free.fr/gimp_bounties.html

[Technoviking]

I love The Gimp and Inkscape but the Save for Web and Device feature in Photoshop is a must. This plugin (http://registry.gimp.org/node/33) needs some love.

T-V

[rasmus91]

use what works, but help advancing the Open Source tools to the point where they either are the best choice, or just as good as the alternatives.

[ssam]

I really don't see any way to calibrate the color in 12.04. The Color menu is there under System Settings, but the Calibrate option isn't active. Again, it's still a beta, but it is an issue.

you need a colorimeter, i think any of the ones listed here would work,
http://www.argyllcms.com/doc/instruments.html
if you want the most opensource friendly one look at http://www.hughski.com/

[eyeofliberty]

Yup, I work in the print industry, and the print and design world runs on Macs, period. There's some great tools in Linux for design (GIMP, Scribus, etc.) but most designers use and are familiar with Macs and Adobe apps. Also, as a prepress technician, I can personally attest to the fact that many, if not most, designers are not terribly tech or geek savvy, as many Linux users are. The computer is a tool for them to get their work done, and they don't necessarily know the finer details of how and why computers and operating systems work the way they do.

[rg4w]

http://dneary.free.fr/gimp_bounties.html
Excellent read - thanks for that.

Sad as the outcome was, I suppose it's modestly encouraging that my idea wasn't completely off the mark.

It seems the episode can be summed up as communication issues: "bounties were never publicised", and the lack of communication among stakeholders.

Too bad, truly. GIMP remains critically important to Linux adoption, but this story reminds us all about how so many projects run into challenges not for technical or even funding reasons, but merely human ones.

[Dragonbite]

you need a colorimeter, i think any of the ones listed here would work,
http://www.argyllcms.com/doc/instruments.html
if you want the most opensource friendly one look at http://www.hughski.com/

Thanks for those links! I am in need of one because my wife's laptop and printer are way off from each other. She's running Windows 7 so one of the other solutions may work but I like the idea of the open source friendly one as well.

I wonder how difficult it would be to port it to Windows...?

[ssam]

Thanks for those links! I am in need of one because my wife's laptop and printer are way off from each other. She's running Windows 7 so one of the other solutions may work but I like the idea of the open source friendly one as well.

I wonder how difficult it would be to port it to Windows...?

One the website they suggest using the included live cd to boot a computer, take a measurement, then the profile from that can be loaded into windows/mac.

[josephmills]

Design something better and hand it off.
That might do the trick.

[prokoudine]

Thanks for those links! I am in need of one because my wife's laptop and printer are way off from each other. She's running Windows 7 so one of the other solutions may work but I like the idea of the open source friendly one as well.

I wonder how difficult it would be to port it to Windows...?

Sorry, I don't get it. What needs porting to Windows?

Argyll has been available fro Windows since dawn of times, and pretty much every colorimeter and spectrophotometer on the market has native tools for WIndows from the vendor.

So what is it that you want to get ported to Windows? :)